Refresh my memory...how many in your family? And if you're wanting an island, do you still need a kitchen table? Can an island that accommodates the entire family replace it?

Townlakecakes, there are 4 of us currently but if my adult kids who live nearby come over, it's 7, and then we have some others here occasionally that could bump it up to 9-10 just with our regular group. But I'd say most often we are serving 3-5 on normal nights. We have an oval table for 6 but we add a chair at each end to seat 8. Then two people pull up chairs to the desk area at the end of the peninsula, so 10 are seated in here. Others are sent to the dining room which seats 8. We have sometimes used a 6-foot long buffet table by the basement door if we need to, but it's very crowded by doing that.

I have thought about an island taking the place of a kitchen table, but I think a table height option would be good to still have for those guests that aren't able to climb up on a higher stool. We have two close relatives that wouldn't easily be able to do that and are fall risks. If something could be incorporated on the back side of an island to make some seating at a regular table height, that would be okay to consider, too. I've seen those islands where the backside is a booth, etc. I'm not good at imagining it all here. I've also seen kitchens with 2 smaller islands and one is mainly for prep and one for seating but I suppose that wouldn't work in here even with the regular table out of the way.

Whew, took me a minute to understand that you currently have a U-shaped layout with the back of the U having a hallway on the other side of the cabinets which do not have a backsplash/wall. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it.

Personally, I don't think I'd fret about pushing the range more to the left towards the corner. I'd definitely add some space between the clean-up sink and range.

Can you post a link to your Ikea plan? Just email it to yourself and then cut and paste it here. It doesn't impact your saved plan in your account, it just gives us access to a temporary version.

Can you confirm the location and measurement of the exterior door wall? The location of the door and the stair wall looks inconsistent between the photo and the drawing.

Cheryl, it's definitely a unique layout. ;) It has been a challenge when trying to think of a redesign. It would be tempting to get rid of both of those stairways (we have two other ways to the upstairs and one more to the basement) but it's nice to have these extra ones in case of fire. It sure would have made our kitchen nicer to not have it like this, though.

Here is a better picture of the area by the exterior door. I had trouble getting things right on track with the planner because I had too many irregular walls and couldn't get everything done quite right, but it's the rough idea. It's an unused corner. We just store things over there. It used to be a computer area until we got a separate office. Nobody uses the door. Kind of wasted space!

I will try to post my IKEA layout.

Here is my current plan in progress. Those areas that are bright green are just zones that can't be blocked (stairs, pantry and freezer). The pantry and freezer are deeper than they appear. The back of that area juts out into the adjoining dining room.

http://kitchenplanner.ikea.com/US/UI/Pages/VPUI.htm?LoadDesign=b31a4544d02141a78799de3043f72d26&UIContext=SE_Menu&IsSharedDesign=1

I did our island 2 levels- counter height for prep that drops down to table height for eating. I struggled with the deciding between one or two heights, but I'm pleased with my choice. I keep 4 chairs at the table daily but often add 1 seat at the end for a total of 5. If I had more room I would have made it bigger to accommodate 6-8. Our dining room does seat 6-8 but we rarely use it.

You could flip your space if you're willing to change out the windows.

Does the link show the same layout as is in your initial post? I'm guessing not since I don't see an island, etc., in the initial post's picture.

If not, please post your layout as a picture, not a link. Your link forces us to agree to IKEA's terms of service, etc.

My layout is the same as posted above at the moment. I didn't add an island yet because I'm not sure about size, placement, or exactly how to build it on the planner yet. I'll keep working on that. But in the meantime, here is a view from a different perspective. The stairways (green areas in the upper left corner) really limit the possibilities on that side of the room.

We have a "new to Kitchens" thread that includes links to the Layout Help FAQ as well as a series of Kitchen Design Best Practices/Guidelines. Have you had a chance to read them? We need more information:

• Where are you flexible? Can windows/doors/doorways/walls change?

• How far off the floor are each of the windows?

• Could you please post a sketch of the entire floor the Kitchen is on? It helps us see how the Kitchen relates to the rest of the house as well as how traffic flows in, around, and through the Kitchen.

• What size appliances are you planning?

• Do you really need three types of seating - Dining Room, island, and Kitchen table?

Keep in mind that the more constraints you put on a space, the fewer your options. Sometimes, it's better to wait a couple of more years to save up more money to do it right than to jury rig something b/c you can't afford to do it correctly right now.

Asking for layout help:

How do I ask for Layout Help and what information should I include?

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2767033/how-do-i-ask-for-layout-help-and-what-information-should-i-include

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So, you have 3 ways to get upstairs and 2 way to get to the basement? That's a bit of overkill - even for "fire"purposes, 2 for the upstairs should be sufficient. However, if that's what you want to stick with, so be it - but keep in mind the constraints those stairways will impose.

What about the register in the floor at the end of the peninsula in your current Kitchen?

"...But I'd say most often we are serving 3-5 on normal nights..."

That's what you should be focusing on, not trying to accommodate everyone all the time. You'd need a huge Kitchen to do that!

Regarding the DR, would you be able to open up the wall b/w the Kitchen and DR so the DR could be the main table space all the time? That may gain you some space in the Kitchen as well as gain you some space in the DR for a bigger table.

Yes, it would mean relocating your "Pantry and Freezer", but it might be worth it.

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Where is your current range located on the new layout? I'm trying to get to figure out where your current "wall" of cabinets is in relation to the exterior door & stairs on the left.

Where is the "family" entrance - the one used by family and close friends on a day-to-day basis? It's usually a garage entrance or similar, but some people use the front door. Where are groceries brought into the Kitchen from?

Can you post a picture of the basement stairs so I can get a feel for how that's configured?

I tried a few ideas. It's easy for me to lose touch with practicality when I start moving stuff in the planner, so forgive me if this is weird.

I thought a banquette and round table in the corner could comfortably seat your typical 3-5 people. If the up-stairs wall is extended, you could put an all-fridge next to an all-freezer on that wall (if your freezer moves, could you open up the wall to the dining room more?) I put a clean up zone where your little office area used to be; my thought is that dishes, etc. could be stored to the right of the dishwasher within easy reach from the fridge and the prep areas. More uppers could be added around the clean up sink. I didn't put counter seating at the island in the drawing keeping in mind you want more space for buffets. Open the design

I have something similar to bb's idea (great minds lol!).

I kept the sink where it is in your layout, moved the DW to the right and range further to the left. I just have the fridge and a cab in the stairs area (MW can go there, maybe in an upper shelf)

Island is 6', but if you have the banquet as bb's, then you can consider a longer one.

It's nice seeing these alternate layout ideas. Thanks! It gets my mind thinking in a different way.

To answer some of buehl's questions:

- Appliance sizes will be 36" wide fridge and 24" wide dishwasher (changed since my picture, both very recent and will be staying)

- The heat register by peninsula can be moved. No problem there.

- The way family and friends come in is through mudroom. Mudroom has an entrance from exterior and from the garage also, so the groceries come in through here and are put on the table. It's very handy because it's close to the built-in pantry, upright freezer, and the fridge while I'm putting things away.

We will be tearing out the ceiling (office tile ceiling in two areas, damaged sheetrock ceiling in another) so when that is torn apart the thing we would be willing to change is to put a partial wall of some sort over in that stair area if it made something more functional, but not completely block any stairs. Although the room upstairs is currently used as a bedroom, in a few years when my daughter is done with college and moves out, it will be back to a living room which will be nice to have easy access from the kitchen. It's a long way around going another way (the house is big). It's also the shortest route to the 2nd bathroom from the kitchen.

- Window over the sink is 39" off ground and the other two are 23-1/2"

- I will have DH make a sketch of main floor layout so it's somewhat in the right proportions compared to what I would come up with.

just an update...I have been playing with some layouts that have the fridge over by the stairway area and I'm liking the idea. I'm trying to build an island that fits in the middle with the proper clearances on all sides and allows seating for 4. I am frustrated because the cabinets keep moving on their own and being sucked over to an adjoining cabinet all the time. I need to figure that out, but I feel at least there is some progress on what I'm trying to do.