Kitchen Design Assistance and Ideas!
Hello All -
I had originally posted this in the Design Dilemma forum but was informed this may be a better destination! Please check out this link first to see the responses that have already been given:
I have been reading the discussions for the past few weeks as I have been working with a KD trying to figure out the best layout for my kitchen. We just purchased our house about 6 months ago and we are finally ready to get this project moving. I will be doing all of the work other than building the cabinets and designing it. Simply put, I am not very good at designing a kitchen and my wife has very particular 'wants' that I can't seem to work into any design I've seen so far. I have attached a picture of the closest thing we have come to liking a design. The major wants (wife: needs) are a large island that incorporates at least 4 stools and a double wall oven as we host most family functions. We have a formal dining room set up but the island will be the primary location for dinners, breakfast, etc.
There really is no room to take down walls. The wall behind the range in the drawing is the formal dining room and the 67" wall on the left the drawing is a half wall with a step down to the sunken family room.
One idea that we have been playing with is taking out the 75" slider and putting in a single door that goes out to the screen in porch. That could give some extra space to move the double wall oven over to that wall or the fridge so it's on the same side as the sink.
Please let me know if there are any ideas you may have. Again, the major issue I am seeing is a 27" deep island that is 109" long. In my mind that is going to look very odd being that long and that skinny.
Thank you in advance and let me know if you have any questions!
Comments (23)
homechef59
7 years agolast modified: 7 years ago
cpartist
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoRelated Discussions
The final plan with assistance from Summerfield Designs
Comments (9)Oh my goodness yes!!!! Now THAT is a house I could imagine myself living in! Having a door at the front of the house that opens into the master bedroom is still a bit odd (IMHO) but by narrowing the front porch at that end and placing a bit of outdoor furniture in just the right spot, the door into the master bedroom is discretely made far less noticeable and therefore is no longer objectionable to me. And by providing another obvious "front door" opening into the dining area (a public space), the whole front-door problem is pretty well solved. Furthermore, if a future owner wanted a more traditional front entryway, they could easily (and probably for very little cost) close in that corner section of the covered front porch and turn that into a foyer that open out into the living room with a side opening going into the dining area. So, you no longer have to worry overmuch about that issue reducing potential resale value. It looks like Summerfield also solved all the other "issues" that bothered me and others about your original plan as well: the too too long uninterrupted hallway, the long distance from garage entry way to any convenient spot to set groceries down, the lack of a really nice pantry, the view from kitchen into the 2nd bathroom, etc., etc., etc. And yet, when you compare the two designs, the general placement of the rooms and the way the house will flow is still very, very similar to your original idea. I am a tiny bit concerned that the pantry may be a bit too narrow to fit a freezer into one end like that. Remember that you'll want to be able to open the freezer door a bit more than 90 degrees and it looks like the side shelves might be in the way. You might need to make the shelves on one side several inches narrower so you can swing the door freezer door open completely. Or, a chest-style freezer (with a lid that lifts UP) might work well in that spot although to get one in/out of the room, the side shelves would have to be made re-moveable. Overall tho, this is BEAUTIFUL WORK! Summerfield Designs continues to amaze me. She has such a great sense of design. And, best of all, she clearly LISTENS to what the homeowner wants and always seems to find a way to deliver a marvelous design that still allows the homeowner's original ideas to shine thru. Summerfield Designs is obviously a master architect who has somehow managed to avoid developing the over-inflated ego that some architects seem to suffer from. This forum is so lucky to have her participate here. Makes me wish she had been an active member back when I was drawing up my own plans. After living in my new home for 18 months, I'm still very very happy with it but I do wonder what kinds of tweaks she would have suggested that would have made it even better! I am so glad you posted this and I look forward to watching your progress as you build. It's going to be an absolutely lovely home!...See MoreLayout ideas/assistance please...
Comments (36)DH here...Thank you everyone for your suggestions so far. I'm here to fill in some of the technical challenges we face. The soffit over the stove/window/slider contains waste pipes from bathroom above and vent for plumbing. Wall between kitchen and FR with cut-out is load bearing, so we may need a post there to support the wall between LR and FR. Directly below floor in aisle between island and stove are the hot water lines from the furnace to the Kitchen/FR/LR. As Pam (ptyles) mentioned the ceiling in basement is open due to water leak when we moved in. All plumbing from sink/DW go into basement utility room with open ceiling. We would like to keep a door to the deck from the kitchen. We use the deck and grill a lot, so we want easy access to the deck. I do like the idea of putting the cooktop on the outside wall for venting. (we made a mistake in our last kitchen remodel with venting, and we learned our lesson). We keep going back and forth on island/peninsula. We were spoiled by having a 6' island with room for 5 seats in our last house, so we're having trouble getting past that. We're close though :)...See MoreKitchen design assistance - Small kitchen
Comments (33)I came up with a plan that does not require changing doors or windows so it's budget friendly and then two variations of it. They do require some work to recess cabs into stud space but that's it and the plan can work even if you're unable to work in the stud space. You get 3 seats at the counter. Oops, I forgot to add length and depth of peninsula. It's 40 1/2" deep x 83" long (includes 1" cab side to support counter at end plus 1" counter overhang at end). I gave you much better clearances between fridge and counter; 42" between fridge face, not fridge box, nearly 10" more than your plan allowed, which keeps that area from becoming a pinch point. I also gave you more aisle space between perimeter and peninsula - 42" vs the 36" your plan had between perimeter and island - plus a larger section of counter between sink and range for prep work. I gave you a separate spot for the MW. It can either be a counter unit or a GE Spacemaker II, which is sized to fit into an upper cabinet. You can just see one of these in the upper cab in the right of this photo: Here it is in a larger kitchen: Yes, you could do a MW hood but moving the MW to another area means that one person can use the MW while another is at the range. I suggest you add shelves in front of the window to increase your storage like this: Use all your vertical space possible. Also, check into Ikea hacks to add toe kick drawers; Ikea hacker Super Secret Toekick drawer for kitchen cabinet Here is what is meant by between stud storage. A GWer recessed a 9" or 12" cab into her stud space so that the cab only stuck out 6" or 9" from the wall. It gave her lots of storage but ate up very little floor space. The only difference between Plan A and Plan B are the cabs in the upper left corner and along the side perimeter. Plan C has minor changes to the cabs in the lower right. I'm assuming that is your only bathroom; moving the door to the bedroom would route all bathroom traffic through that bedroom. Not too big a deal if you rent to a family or childless couple. Big deal if you rent to single, young professionals. If you can add another full bath elsewhere, then go for it and create a master suite, but if you can't, I would leave the bathroom door where it is. If you think you'd recoup the additional expense of moving doors and windows, etc, and adding another full bath that opens up more possibilities, including the plan benjesbride suggested above....See MoreDesign assistance for waterfront Cape Cod home
Comments (5)I wasn't able to find your sketch within a couple of minutes. It's better if you post the relevant pictures directly in the thread. One thing I've always found annoying because it ALWAYS looks and feels like a mistake, is that whenever connecting two destinations, a person must travel up or down BEYOND the destination elevation, and then return to the correct elevation. In other words, going from the upper deck to the basement level and then back up to the pool level does not seem efficient or classy. In order to "flow" from the upper deck to the pool, I believe you would have to make the connection directly from the left end of the deck, and it would thus have to be separate from the expanded deck affair that you are contemplating. To make it separate would not be a bad thing in my opinion. Can't tell from pictures, It might could connect at the outside of the deck and pool, or possibly hug along the house walls. A patio looks better to me than a 2nd story deck on stilts (or some half-derivation of that.) As you have a raised mound of earth off of the back of the house, it seems like you could develop a patio that is supported by a sturdy retaining wall, placing its elevation about two steps below the upper deck level. It would not seem so much difference that "flow" is interrupted, and it would give you the opportunity to include the features you're after. It could also be extended to include a second, even lower, level that puts a little more separation from the firepit area. A new, better and more direct path to the water could come from it. I have no idea what visual effect this will have from the basement area, between the mound an house. We can't see if there's a cave back there, or what. The sketch is rough, vague & general....See Morerantontoo
7 years agoJevon Staffieri
7 years agorantontoo
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoJevon Staffieri
7 years ago
MaWizz
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoWe bought a home with a 28"x36" island ... very small. I hated it for food prep. As I was working on the narrow edge. Too narrow for me! After about a month we realized it wasn't fixed to the floor so we turned it so that as you work on the 36" edge. Yes still very small, but much better. We don't have a big kitchen. We are updating and our designer suggested a 36"x36". Visually looks better in our space per the drawing. A little beefier. We will see?
I'm not great with drawings but I picture yours to look something like this?
Not sure if there is enough space to have dinner but certainly breakfast/snack.
Buehl
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoBuehl
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoartemis_ma
7 years agoBuehl
7 years agolast modified: 7 years ago
sheloveslayouts
7 years agoCan you eliminate the doorway completely and maybe put one in the family room?
Buehl
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoOK, here's a question that will make a big difference in your options for a functional Kitchen...
Have you considered eating in the Dining Room full-time?
When we remodeled, we realized that we rarely used the DR - mostly just for holidays and when we had company. We had really outgrown our Kitchen seating and realized that if we used the DR full-time, we would have much more usable space for the Kitchen w/o having to force seating in it as well. So, down came most of the wall b/w the Kitchen & DR and a peninsula was put in b/w the two rooms.
It was one of the best things we did! We now use our DR for all our meals and the peninsula for snacks and, sometimes, breakfast. Note that peninsulas are "out of favor" right now b/c everyone wants an island - whether or not their Kitchen can support one. It's a fad right now that people are all clamoring for. People see these big Kitchens in magazines with an island and assume that their much smaller Kitchen can do it too! After all, that's what people who don't know any better (or who are making $$ off them) are telling them!
In a Kitchen that cannot support an island, a peninsula is far preferable for getting seating and/or deeper counterspace in the Kitchen. If your Kitchen is an "L" shape, then you can have as wide a peninsula as your Kitchen can support. If it's a "U", then you should try to keep at least one leg of the "U" fairly short and the base of the "U" fairly wide so people aren't trapped inside the "U".
We have a "U", but the legs of the "U" are 62" and 53-3/4" wide and the base is 121" counter-to-counter. Both legs are peninsulas, but only the 62" wide one has seats (2 seats). The legs are just deep enough to provide extra counterspace, but not too deep that anyone is trapped and the wide base gives me plenty of room to work. The legs also direct people around my workspace (Prep & Cooking Zones), so the peninsulas make life easier for me!
BTW...we tried for an island as well, but folks here finally made me realize my Kitchen could not support an island. Thank goodness they stuck with me and patiently explained over & over until I finally accepted the reality of our Kitchen space.
If I were you, I would think about what you can really support in your Kitchen and what you really need in the Kitchen.
If you don't really need table-style seating, you might be able to eek out an island, but with seats you have to be sure your aisles are wide enough around the seats to allow for traffic b/w the seats and the appliances and/or counters behind the seats.
For reference, this is my Kitchen's Design with the two peninsulas. Your Kitchen is about 2' deeper, so you could probably have a peninsula 6' wide for 3 seats.
[Yes, there is a pinch-point b/w the refrigerator and peninsula - a victim of my KD's mis-measuring! (Long story) Yes, it's an issue sometimes, but we deal with it. While it's not something I'm happy about, it's the worst of the issues (the other issue is the location of my trash pullout), but all in all, everything else works great. No kitchen is perfect, but you have to be very careful where you compromise - will the compromise make it difficult to work in the Kitchen generally? If so, compromise somewhere else!]
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Just as an FYI...my SIL had an island w/seating and w/a 36-inch aisle b/w the island and the refrigerator behind the seats - she got so sick of not having enough room, that she ended up removing the stools completely from the Kitchen so no one could sit there. When she remodeled, she got rid of the island and is so happy with how much room she now has to move around & work in the Kitchen.Buehl
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoSo, BenjesBride did something similar to what I've been working on...there are some differences, but the seating is almost identical!
I worked around a 36" wide door to the deck, so I didn't utilize the entire window wall. Unless you can shorten your deck so it's not in front of the Family Room and then put in a step or two from in front of the Family Room up to the deck --OR-- move the deck door to the Dining Room (I don't know if that's feasible since I can't see the whole floor's layout - could you please post one???) - I don't think you can eliminate the deck door in the Kitchen.
The first layout is below. I have been working on a second layout with banquette seating in the Kitchen instead, but I don't think it's going to work.
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Filler Pullout - see this link for possibilities:
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Let me say at the outset that I'm not really happy about a few things - but I was trying to work with the constraints currently imposed and all your "wants".
- The DW overlap with the Prep Zone on the island
- The dish storage b/w the sink and range.
- The double ovens situation - in front of the DR doorway and the only landing space the island or counter next to the range.
- Finally, I would have liked more space behind the seats...43" is going to be a bit tight, especially if you plan to use the island for most of your meals. I feel very strongly that you should reconsider eating at the island for most meals. Island seating is not conducive to family bonding or for encouraging people to linger over their meal. Island seating is more like eating at a diner - where you're sitting next to strangers so you don't want to be facing them.
Because of your space limitations, I put in a 30" cooktop instead of a 36". In the layout from your KD, the space with the sink and range is dysfunctional. It will be very difficult to have more than one person ever working in this Kitchen with your KD's layout.
I don't know if you have separate pantry space elsewhere, so I put in a 42" high x 36"W x 15"D pantry cabinet. If you can close up the wall at least partly to the FR, then you could have a full-height pantry. I also put a supplemental pantry next to the ovens since there is so little cabinetry.
The most useful space for prepping, I think, is on the island. However, without water it will not be very useful. So, I put in a prep sink. Yes, the Kitchen is small, but to get everything you want, I think the prep sink will help with the functionality overall.
In closing, if you can eliminate the deck door and move the DR doorway, then a much better layout would be the first one BenjesBride posted.
Good luck with your project!
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Zone Map:
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Jevon Staffieri
7 years agoBenje - thank you for your design(s) as well! Completely removing that door and moving to the family room is still an idea and if we go that route I do agree that it really has a great flow. It has no double wall oven though so that is our main concern with the design. Also a little concerned with storage space. I never feel like we are going to have enough!!
Buehl - Thank you very much for your work on this! Sorry it took so long to get back to you all, we have an 8 month old so timing isn't always great!
To answer all of your questions first:
We are currently a young family of 3, my wife, myself, and our little 8 month old. We are planning on having one more child down the road a bit. I added a quick sketch of the first floor layout of the house which I have added to this post. Hopefully this will help everyone. If you need more measurements or identifying anything on my less than stellar drawing please just let me know.
We don't have our fridge yet but it is going to be counter depth, not built in, most likely. That could change pending a few items but at this point we are going with counter depth and staying away from the ultra high end appliances. We were originally going to go with the subzero / wolf line but found that money better spent elsewhere.
We do have a separate pantry area but it is in between the garage door opening and the powder room. It isn't ideal but we had none when we moved it so I made it the make-shift one for now.
I think there is a good amount of opening (65") going into the family room so we wouldn't be opposed to closing up that half wall to the ceiling if it allowed for the island we really want. Worst case we could use that angled supp pantry you put in your KD and keep our old pantry the way we have it currently.
The DR door could be moved down as far as I know. I am assuming you mean down as in away from the range. Obviously assuming that their wouldn't be any cabinets along that wall. Didn't open up the walls yet but assuming there isn't any duct work or plumbing over there.
I don't NEED the 36" cooktop, it would be a nice to have as I prepare a wide variety of meals and always curse at my lack of space on the current 30" one. I could make do with a 30" though. I think the door staying in the kitchen is the best idea though, just making it a single door instead of the slider. We'll put an all glass door so we get a good amount of light in. We have no neighbors behind us so privacy isn't really an issue.
Double wall oven is a must - we host most parties, holiday's, etc at our house and making a big meal without 2 ovens has really hurt us!
Buehl - we LOVE your design with the large island. You removed the bar which will hurt but we understand if it's at the cost of the larger island we can always move the bar into the dining room. What are the overall dimensions of the island? I can't really make it out from the drawing. We would most likely bring that half wall to the ceiling and door wall to ceiling pantry there. My initial concern would be the storage space but if we get that full pantry over by the 1/2 wall, the spice rack, and the pots/pans under the cooktop I think it works GREAT.
Buehl
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoBuehl
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoJevon Staffieri
7 years agohomechef59
7 years agocpartist
7 years agoJevon Staffieri
7 years ago
Buehl