Wow,

I counted 5 openings into that room. This may, or may not work (it seems the drawings and photos are a little "off"), but if that dining room entry could be relocated to the other side of the DR, and *if* that happened to line up to the end of the kitchen where the hallway door is, you could relocate the entrance to the DR, narrow the sliders, and gain 3 feet along the whole kitchen (and even more wall space if you narrowed the opening to the Foyer from 5'4" to 36").

Do you need to have both the eating area and stools at an island?

Which doorways can be moved or eliminated?
(Can you post the whole downstairs floorplan?)

And what's below the kitchen?
(Slab? Which makes moving plumbing difficult, or is there a basement, in which case, plumbing moves aren't so bad.)

I'll see if I can get my DH to do a whole first floor floorplan. There is a finished basement below so moving plumbing should not be a huge deal. The ceiling down there already has to be patched up because there were several leaks before we moved in.

I never thought of moving the opening to the dining room, I'll have to play around with that and see how it changes our options.

We really do not NEED to eating areas. Right now we just have a kiddie table in the eating area because I don't want my little ones trying to climb up on the stools by the island.

that's a nice big space to work with!

do you want to keep the sink in the corner? you mentioned switching the dw w/ stove... that'd put the dw far from the sink.
aren't there 6 doorways?

Does the hallway by the frig lead to bedrooms? Do you need/want an entrance from a bedroom hallway into the kitchen? A whole house layout would really help.

pty

It looks like a great potential space! Agree the layout is awkward - too many openings in that area - the island is a barrier, placed to play the run around the island to cook a meal

I'll take a stab w/o knowing the 1st floor layout

Although I'm not a fan of knocking down walls - your family room is screaming to be opened - the boxed out opening is awkward and dated - opening that gives you many options -
If that can be done -
Make the sliding door in kitchen 1-2 windows (looks like lovely natural light) - you may even be able to move your "working" kitchen down to that end - sink centered on the new window/s
- I would close off the "hallway" opening -
- I think there is one opening in pics but not on floorplan which would make 6 openings - The opening just beyond where Kitty is (not really seen) - I assume is "foyer"
The next opening in view is? where wicker chair is
then nxt is the opening is to FR where brick is seen
Or is that 2 openings to the FR? + the boxed out one

- Which door is most frequently used?
-Does the foyer open to other areas of the house - can that opening be closed
-If the FR door is the one used - I'm thinking (dreaming) of carving out a mud area in part of the space there

Some considerations
- Whole 1st floorplan
- Does the soffit contain HVAC/plumbing/electric?

You do have the space - it will take time to configure it to best suit your needs
best of luck

Is there an opening in the FR to the outside? Or is the sliding door in the kitchen the only way out back? If there's a door in the FR, I'd make that whole sliding glass door a window and put the cleanup sink there. (If there's not one, I'd make a single glass door there in the family room.) Keep the small corner sink as a prep sink and center the cooktop on that wall between the windows. Expand the island so that the part on the left is all cabinetry, and then it extends same height into a table with seating. Wrap the cleanup sink and cabinetry all the way around the corner with the half height wall to the family room.

Do you do a lot of grilling or eating outside? If so, I would keep a door in the kitchen, rather than having to take the food through the family room, but I am a sloppy spiller. I think it's a good idea to make the sliders one french door and extend your counter. I don't know if a cooktop will fit well where the dishwasher is though - I think it would be too close to kids running through the hallway. You could just slide it down though, once you remove the sliders.

I also think closing in the opening of the foyer to match the opening to the hallway at the other end and putting snack cabinets on the wall where kitty is munching would help keep the family out of your space. It's hard to tell how much room you've got there, but depending on how you cook, you could consider moving the microwave over there, or a small secondary sink for drinks/handwashing.

I do agree that the opening to the family room is a little dated, but I think that is down to the framing more that anything. I don't know if you could reframe that opening to be counter height, but if so, you could put your workstation on that wall. That way you could be tied into the family room while working. You could modernize the framing of the opening with decorative columns maybe? Although that might affect how all the other openings in that hallway are framed too.

I also think the space is a little narrow for the island, at least with seating. I would play around with floorplans without the island to see how they feel to you.

It's a lovely space to work with. Best of luck!

Here is a layout of the first floor. The hallway beyond the kitchen must stay open - it is our only way to rooms beyond the kitchen (bathroom, laundry, media room and office). Having this layout might help answer some of the questions above. I don't think I want to totally do away with a door to the deck because we do a fair amount of grilling even in the winter. But was thinking of shrinking the sliding door to just a single glass door to still have an exit and also let in light.

I absolutely hate that opening into the family room. My thought was to totally open that up or close it up and use that wall somehow. We have also though to put cabinetry on the wall where the cat is eating as a snack storage area (I don't know if the proper term is butler's pantry but that type of set up with cabinets on top and below with some counter space there too. Or maybe even a small desk area.

~Pam

I wanted to let you know that I have a very similar space, minus a few doorways. But, I love my U with the Fridge/Ovens/MW across the U (on your DR wall). It works best with a cooktop/Wall oven situation.

I love the pennisula for my kids helping with cooking (mostly baking cookies), they stand on one side (usually on a chair)and I stand in the kitchen and it functions just like an island, but doesn't mess with your work flow. My pennisula doesn't have seating, instead we have a small kitchen table where you show your sliders. Kids eat breakfast, lunch and do homework there.

If you removed your FR wall and the slider (I notice your FR access to the deck is right next to the door) you could either have some seating at the island (don't think you could get 5 seats or a table. My back door to the patio is in a simlar place and It's not an issue getting from the kitchen to outside if that wall is not in the way. To make getting things outside even easier, we have a pass through screen on the kitchen windows so that if I'm too busy to walk someone outside can come to the window and I can pass it out the window.

In my layout the cooktop is were your DW is and my sink is in the opposite corner. This makes it easily accessable from the window wall and the pennisula.

I opted to get rid of my pantry and create a Bulter's pantry or snack station near the dinning room entrance. It is supposed to have the MW, toaster and coffee maker there. So, it's a snack area most of the time and a extra serving area when we need the space for entertaining.

I could go on and on, but I love the functionality of the U!

Becktheeng, do you have a layout of your kitchen? I'm interested to see your space.

I like a couple of the different thougths other posters have (either take out the family room wall or wrap cabs around like a U). Either way, I REALLY think it will benefit your design if you close up the sliders. Think about how often you use it as opposed to how often you would use/benefit from the additional counter space.

Also also think the top wall would be a great space for some configuration of pantry, snack area, maybe frig drawers for juices, milk, jellies, etc., so kids can make breakfast or lunch there.

Idea: If you don't use the sliders in the Kitchen often (or at least less than the FR), then consider replacing them with windows to the counter that also open up like a pass-through to the outside. That way you can place food on the pass through and not have to carry it to the FR and out...and you get the added advantage of a longer counter run on that wall. There have been a few people here that have done this.

If you remove that short wall, the FR doors are even more usable b/c now you just have to turn a corner to get to them.

I would definitely consider taking that wall down b/w the kitchen & FR.

Need to work on those aisle clearances!

I'll look some more tomorrow, but I wanted to mention about the window to give you more options!

ptyles...here's my layout.

The difference is that my oven and counter are switched...Here's a perspective of the actual layout of that wall. And the single door is now where I show a window in the FR.

It's in construction now and I ended up purchasing a buffet and hutch to go where the brown cabinetry is (it's where I'm going to keep snacks, plates, glasses and silverware). It's still in construction, the cabinets should be done soon.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Since your kitchen is only 13 1/2 feet wide, I think you need to either eliminate the seating at the island or the cabinetry on the wall between the dining room and kitchen. I agree that you should eliminate the wall between the family room and kitchen. This would allow you to get rid of one of the doors to the deck.

That blank wall where the cat is eating seems like it might be the perfect place to put a kitchen table. You could place a bench or banquette against the wall and have enough seating for 6.

Here's a quick rendering of one possible layout. I wasn't sure what kind of pantry storage you needed. If you like the tall pullout pantry cabinets you could place one next to your fridge or double oven stack.

Having seen the full house floor plan, I think I would leave the kitty snacking wall as is. It runs along the most direct path between your media room and the rest of the house. Cabinets would jut into the way a bit. Instead I think I would replace the family room wall with a snack peninsula. You could have dry storage and/or a small sink and/or undercounter refrigerator for kid drinks/yogurts/fruit etc. If there is room on the family room side you could make it a double sided peninsula and have either seating or your work station on the other side.

Is your kitchen window placement flexible? If so I think erika has hit on a great oven - cooktop - sink arrangement. It gets your sink out of the corner, but keeps your cooktop protected from traffic.

Your space has so much potential - good luck with it!

A few people have asked and I am very flexible on the placement of the appliances and the window. I strongly dislike the corner sink now and want it moved to under the window. I also want the window to come down to the counter. I am short (5'1) and would like to actually see out the window!

Erikanh, thank you for taking the time and posting those ideas. Seeing those views help give me a better perspective of how it can all fall into place. What program do you use?

I am still hesitant to completely close up a door in the kitchen even though it would give me a great deal more wall space. Do you see any reason not to close it up?

The wall where you see the cat is a heavily used walk way. What you can't see from the pics is that around the corner is the door to our finished basement. So I don't think a table would be best placed there but I was wondering what you all think about using that area as a snack area. Perhaps using a hutch like piece of furniture or even having it made out of the same cabinets we choose for the kitchen itself and placing a small beverage fridge so I can keep the kids out the big fridge if possible.

My other big concern is the aisle width btw the island and the fridge side of the kitchen. Right now it is definitely too tight. What is the narrowest width of an island that makes sense as a work space but not suitable for seating?

Thank you all for your responses and ideas!

In the plan I posted above, I didn't close up the door, I closed up the family room door.

I didn't have all your measurements, so I had to guess about how much space you had in certain places. You definitely have room for a hutch on that cat wall, but even then I think you'll have a lot of wasted space in that area which is why I suggested a table. Do you currently use the dining room for most of your meals? I would definitely want at least a small table for quick snacks, homework and projects. If you took down the wall between the family room and kitchen I think you'd have room for a small table and loads of room to walk through, but again I'm not entirely sure of all your measurements.

I'm not a fan of desks in kitchens because most the ones I see look messy, so I'd put a snack hutch there closer to the fridge and MW.

I would want at least 48 inches between the island and the fridge wall. The reason I didn't center the fridge on that wall was because I didn't want the fridge doors to open in front of the island. The island I drew has no overhang for seating because there simply isn't enough room to have both seating at the island and cabinetry on that wall.

The software is a free online design program on the Merillat website.

Erika

Here's one idea if you were to close up the sliders and take out the half wall. It's very rough as I didn't have a graph on it and I only use powerpoint. Everything is a rough estimate. However, you should have room for 36" everything. I figured the island to be 24" deep with an 18" deep overhang. Someone with software can do a much better job and adjust the clearances if you like this kind of layout.

pty
Interesting

-I think you need to determine your traffic patterns, which is the most heavily traveled pathways & prioritize them by order of most used - that will help with placement/floorplan
- I think to get the most use of your floorplan it makes sense to close the sliders in the eating part of the kitchen and put windows there - and open the FR totally to the kitchen

I like what erik has drawn for the main sink side - It would be nice to get the cooktop on the exterior wall for best ventilation -
The island seems to be a similiar version to what you currently have - so I'm not a fan. I like a straight shot from sink to refrig - you have to do the island dance thing

Also, agree w/the above poster who notes desks not in kitchen - they are really difficult to keep clear. They just have an invisible sign that says "dump on me" - with an office nearby it seems like it's not needed.

Looking again at your plan I think if you wanted some delination btwn family & kitchen a penninsula would be well suited there (if sliding doors are closed up)

Good luck

One reason I'm so interested in this layout is because it's somewhat similar to mine. My kitchen is just under 13 1/2" wide and I also have lots of doorways.

The first layout I did had seating at the island and shallow pantry cabinets like Elyse drew. But then I went back and saw that you wanted double ovens. Originally, I put the fridge on the short part of the L, and the ovens on the dining room divider wall, but then I worried about opening a hot oven into that passageway, so I switched them. If you feel like you could do without the double oven and do a range instead, that would enable you to have seating at the island again. You wouldn't be able to have a snack area on that wall, though. If you're really set on double ovens you could put them at the end of your long L, but that would make them far from your cooktop ... not sure if that would be a problem for you.

Another 2 cents worth.
{{gwi:1908529}}

One thing that helped me in my planning process was to prioritize my wants into must-haves and nice-to-haves.

Some of my must-haves were a huge window looking into the backyard, island seating, ventilated range hood, and dish hutch. A few of my nice-to-haves were double ovens and wine chiller.

Maybe you could prioritize the following and whatever else you think of into must-haves and nice-to-haves:

Door to deck in kitchen
Double ovens
Seating at island
Desk area
Snack center
Sink under window

erika is right....you need to prioritize what is most important to you/your family.

There were several things that were a high priority to me:

1. A trash pullout...my old kitchen didn't have a good place for trash.

2. I wanted to get the dishes/glasses/silverware out of the corner by my cooktop...it was a pain when cooking and kids/DH setting the table...the hutch solved that problem.

3. I decided I really liked have a casual dining table rather than seating at the pennisula...homework is easier to do on the table.

4. I love to bake and had considered trying to do a range to get more usable space in the kitchen, but I decided that since I've never really had a range set up and I live in So. Cal. where I get warm just from cooking on the cooktop, I wouldn't want to add oven heat to that...we don't have AC.

Good luck...it took me 22 layouts, and I didn't really move anything as far as appliances (other than getting the MW off the counter).

I was wrong about you not having room for a snack area on that wall.

Even with shallow pantries, your aisles be a little tight on both sides of the island.

24" sink wall
39" aisle + 3" counter overhang
24"+12" overhang on island
48" aisle
12" pantry
---------------
13.5 feet total

First, the recommended overhang for counter-height seating is 15".

It's all well and good to put in a 12" overhang to force the aisle widths to appear to work...but when someone is sitting at the counter, they will actually use the needed 15" and then some. They'll just be sitting 3" further out away from the counter w/a 12" instead of a 15"...but they'll take the same amount of space. I.e., when seated the person will take approx 30" of space from the back of the cabinet to the back of the stool, regardless of overhang depth.

[I just asked my family members to sit normally at our counter and then measured. I came up with 29" once & 30" twice...not counting the back of the stool. Add another 2 or 3 inches if you have a stool with a back.]

If you have a row of tall cabinets (i.e., no counters & no appliances) behind the seats, then 54" would be the minimum, IMO. That would give you 24" to open & stand in front of cabinets in...but no room for anyone to pass by. If there is a working counter or appliance behind the seats, then at least 60" is better b/c you need more room for working there while someone is seated.

I do know what the recommended minimums are, which is why I said from the start it would be better to choose between island seating and cabinetry on that wall. Nevertheless, right now pty has less aisle space than what this new layout would give.

Another option would be to move the doorway to dining room over to the right and put a shallow pantry to the left of the doorway.

I understand why you want help. You have a very poorly designed home. Having to go through the kitchen to get to the bedrooms from the front door? Ugh! Why did you buy this home?

The only thing I can see is to consider the dining room as a parlor, and have part of the media room scavenged to make a passageway that goes into the current hallway.

swampwiz, I'm becoming convinced that you are a troll trying to stir up trouble. Can you please go away now? Thanks.

swampwiz, go troll on another message board. Your nasty comments are not wanted here. If you want to offer good advice then really take a look at the floor plan that was posted and you would see how your posting is not relevant to my issues.

To everyone else that has been tremendously helpful my dh is reading over all your suggestions tonight so we can discuss our needs and play around with the layout.

Erika, I know I must have seen some pics of your kitchen but do you have some more you can either post or email to me? I would love to see your layout.

ptyles, here's the link to my photobucket album. There are some drawings of the layout at the very end.

swampwiz is a troll -

Should go back to your swamp

Look at the other brillant posts

GW should remove him/her as a member

my kitchen is about the same size as yours, except it is 18' long. I have sliders in the kitchen where you do and will be moving them to the family room, which is just about the same relation as to where your family room is. The 2 extra feet that your kitchen has over mine does give you a lot more options. Also, as in erikanh's plan, you can fit a table against that wall if you like(I do not have that in my kitchen).

As others have said, you need to decide if the slider in the kitchen is a priority, or if a bigger kitchen space is a priority. Once that is decided, you can figure out the best layout for your space. I'm including a pic of where our layout wound up.

Islands are nice, but peninsulas are good too. I think becktheeng's U + fridge/oven wall would be a great alternative. Then you could put stools on the peninsula. You have enough room at that end to curve the peninsula if you change the slider to a single door. You don't really have enough width for an island with seating and full depth cabinets along the dining room wall and the outside wall.

DH here...Thank you everyone for your suggestions so far. I'm here to fill in some of the technical challenges we face. The soffit over the stove/window/slider contains waste pipes from bathroom above and vent for plumbing. Wall between kitchen and FR with cut-out is load bearing, so we may need a post there to support the wall between LR and FR.

Directly below floor in aisle between island and stove are the hot water lines from the furnace to the Kitchen/FR/LR. As Pam (ptyles) mentioned the ceiling in basement is open due to water leak when we moved in. All plumbing from sink/DW go into basement utility room with open ceiling.

We would like to keep a door to the deck from the kitchen. We use the deck and grill a lot, so we want easy access to the deck.

I do like the idea of putting the cooktop on the outside wall for venting. (we made a mistake in our last kitchen remodel with venting, and we learned our lesson). We keep going back and forth on island/peninsula. We were spoiled by having a 6' island with room for 5 seats in our last house, so we're having trouble getting past that. We're close though :)

I am not a troll; I just tell it the way it is.

The fact is that having to actually go through the kitchen to go the bedrooms is a terrible design flaw in a home. Whatever is to be done to the floorplan must alleviate this situation. I offered what I believe is the best way to get out of this.

Obviously the homeowner also agrees that the floorplan is bad, or else (s)he would not have posted this thread asking for help.