Just off the top of my head - "if this was my space" sort of thinking - I would consider not having any cabinets on the window wall. I would not have the microwave over the range and I am not fond of the island between the sink and fridge. I would toss around an L shape with a bigger island, but I am not sure where the fridge would go then. Time for the experts:)

Jhmarie i guess I have thought about no cabinets on one of the side walls because I would love a big island just don't think the space has the length or width for it :(

thought about L but isn't an island more desired?

Oh and you can see in the pics we tried changing the island to see what looked/worked best. It's very small.

I meant an L shaped kitchen along the perimeter with an island:) My small kitchen is like that. I don't know if you want to give up a wall of cabinets for an island.

A peninsula is another thought. A peninsula can be desirable if you want some place for people to sit similar to an island but do not have enough space for one. One of my friends has that and the only minus is it divides the room a bit and you can only walk around it on one side. My mother also has that set up but in her case it makes the working part of the kitchen very tight - only room for one in the space. I think it would be tight for you too. If you get a chance, take a pic of the fridge wall.

I wonder if the advice will change now that you posted a picture. Are the cabinets awful quality? If not, then I wouldn't mess with them. I would get rid of the wall paper and window treaments. Change the color of the island and select a different floor color.

I am wondering if those are formerly stained cabinets painted white? I wonder because of the raised panel and the white tile floor and white appliances which make me think of a mid tone wood kitchen.

I don't think it is hideous, but it is awfully white. I can see why you want wood cabinets.

Also, on your other post - Loretta has a pic of her very pretty kitchen - that is what I mean by L shaped with an island. She might have more cabinets on another wall, but what shows in her pic is what I meant.

First thing first..it's not my favorite kitchen in the world but it's far from being hideous:) There were times when I would..no never kill never!..but maybe punch lol..to have such kitchen. It's a good size and it's functional. They made a mistake with a color regarding the house, details, the curtains and the wallpaper..no matter since you took them away anyway as far as I understand. But the layout makes sense, the size is good, the light seems sufficient.

To me, keeping a U shape with the pantry etc is more desirable than an island. But then I never had an island in my life so it's not like I'm an expert.

Agree on putting microwave somewhere else, installing a hood instead. Easier to function, looks prettier too(especially if you can't see the microwave)

Agree on maybe trying not to surround the window with the cabinets. Unless they're sorely needed for storage-I'd keep that window wall empty.

If you find the general layout functional I'd keep it that way. a) Cheaper b) Don't fix what ain't broken. But there are some amazing people here that might prove me wrong, like, in a second..so maybe they'll chime in

The crown of the cabinets doesn't go up to the ceiling-probably because of the vaulted ceiling side, with the window wall? It will become easier to address if you remove those cabinets too.

In order to make the whole wall of uppers lighter in feel, I'd change some of them to the glass insert ones.

Dark cabs, light countertops, new backsplash..very pretty.

How do you find your current island? Would you rather keep it(as an idea), or would you rather not..in terms of how comfortable it is to work with?

I like peninsulas when they are pretty, not too impeding, and can serve double functions. It's a bit too late now here, 2 am...if I remember where I've got these couple pics I'll dig them out for you. I was looking into peninsulas before we remodeled.

I'm open to options but remember the tile is under appliances not cabinets.

If you plan to keep the flooring, then I guess you're stuck with the U shape. But if you're open to change the layout, please take a look at this post and give us more info.

Do you have a basement or are you on a slab? We ran electrical to our island without much problem from the basement. Our former island had not been wired. Wiring the island would give you a place to put the microwave so you could get a proper hood.

It's not hideous or ugly ... its just very boringly pale, and the plaid wallpaper is not doing the house any favors.

Please post a measured drawing of the existing floor plan, including what rooms are adjacent to any openings.

I see several places where you could improve function without dramatic changes.

You should also read this thread before proceeding with layout requests, then post a new thread when you get the drawing from the KD and bring everyone up to speed. I was missing a lot of info by not reading your other thread first. This is a good conversational thread to kick around ideas in the meantime.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/4306041/new-to-kitchens-read-me-first?n=62

the white is fine....I would redo the base section so I could get drawers. some folk have altered base cabinets to attain drawers from doors....If you replace the base section you can do a two toned kitchen. Leave the white uppers...take off the uppers from window wall and remove the yellow and the border wallpaper as backsplash.... change the valances at windows. You could get a butcher block top for small island and get an earthy textural white backsplash..or gray..or porcelain tile. Biggest decision is regarding base cabinets-keep them with upgrading rollouts inside or make drawers....or replace for stacks of drawers. With keeping much or changing select things use money to hire an interior designer to make that window wall a beautiful focus.....start with inspiration pics of focus walls with windows and high arched ceilings: you're lucky to have this to work with.

Is it my ideal kitchen? No. Is it a disaster screaming for a reno? No, not that either. I agree with the others who are recommending minor updates. I'd just ditch the wallpaper, backsplash, and window treatments, and get rid of the OTR. Maybe remove the cabs from the window wall since you have tons of storage anyway, unless you have money to burn. It's not a magazine kitchen, but there's nothing seriously wrong with it, either, unless the cabinets are falling apart in ways not visible in the pics.

ETA You could swap out the island for something a bit trendier, like an open wood one with shelves beneath as an alternative to hassling with the uppers.

Getting rid of the uppers on the window wall and creating a peninsula is beginning to look like an excellent suggestion. Do you use that table? Is there another dining table close by? I think you should post the floor plan for the kitchen and show how it connects to the adjacent rooms. I think that you're so focused on describing the kitchen as hideous that you're missing the point that it looks pretty good and you may end up making changes you regret $$$.

Thanks for the feedback and comments first off for those of you that didn't read my "Yikes" thread let me catch you up.

The pictures you see here were taken when we first moved in five years ago. I have since then made small changes to make it less of an eyesore. Those pictures whether old or new can help you see the kitchen as a whole and lay out. All the other stuff is just cosmetic. I will try and get some measurements. I have never taken them, but my KD did.

So here are some of the things that I have changed that will address some comments:

1. Removed wallpaper and painted (don't like the grey blue color now ...I was talked into doing something different than the great room and I shouldn't have listened to that advice. I should have carried the Grey from the great room right into the kitchen. Lesson learned).

2. Changed window treatments

3. Changed all brass pulls to brushed nickel

4. Changed from white appliances to stainless steel

5. Had tile floors cleaned and resealed grout

6. Changed light fixture over eat in kitchen table in hindsight that should've been larger to fit the scale size of the room better

Again those are just cosmetic things that I can change easily or redo once the layout Is established. I would really appreciate your advice mainly on the layout at this time.

I wish you could all come over and we could have a powwow and get it all hashed out. It would be way better to have a more back and fourth conversation .

I so appreciate all of your responses and the time you took to post I'm going to attempt to respond to all of your comments thanks again!

jhmarie i'm really curious about your suggestion for the L-shaped kitchen and island ...are you suggesting the L-shaped to be on the refrigerator side or the kitchen window sink side? I'm starting to visualize it just not sure how it would fit the space ? And wondering what I would lose or gain in that scenario ? Maybe it's just a good cosmetic change to do ?

Regarding the peninsula I have had one in the past in this case I think it would cut off the kitchen if it came out from the refrigerator side because that's where you enter so you would actually have to walk around it and on the other side it would be way too close to the eat in kitchen area and make the interior of the kitchen space tight like you said.

here is a picture of the refrigerator side you requested.

don't mind the blue tape i am the blue tape queen as it helps me visualize ideas. that's supposed to be where a cabinet depth microwave would go in the upper and a wine cooler in the lower. Hope this helps!

Take measurements and draw a layout. Read the intro to kitchen design threads posted above.

The main issue with your current layout is your island is a barrier blocking the workflow (meaning its between the fridge and sink).

Your kitchen might also be a bit tight for an island. It looks like its really small and I wonder how useful it is. Islands are considered desirable but just putting in an island that doesn't really add anything aside from blocking workflow just for the sake of saying your kitchen has an island doesn't make much sense.

Practigal great question! They are terrible! Made of something called thermofoil. ie. plastic.

Areas have yellowed,

cabinets are sagging, corner cabinet hinged door broke off,

cheap, crappy rails (one that shifts when opening) and have melted!

and they crack

Ugh! So I'd say its time to change them!

Select a different floor color? I didn't know you could change the color of tile? How do you do that?

Just to be clear, what is it that you have the KD working on? All new cabinets? At 22 years old, you could go either way. New doors/drawers? Change in layout? Is the floor staying or going or maybe? What's your scope here?

P.S. I laughed when you said in the other thread that when you bought the house the kitchen hadn't been touched since it was a model home in 1995. When we bought our house 18 months ago, it hadn't been touched since it was a model in 1964 :-)

Edit: I see your comments on why the cabs are going!

jhmarie i too like loretta's kitchen! i will go back and look at her layout. thx

Aprilneverends i too feel lucky to have this space even tho more would be nice.

I think I can really make this into something nice and functional .

You can see in one of the pics I posted above we have considered the microwave being moved into the cabinet area by the refrigerator . Another option would be to have a microwave drawer in the lower cabinet next to the refrigerator . And yet another option would be to run electrical to the island (tearing up the floors some) and installing in the island.

Yeah I'm not liking the microwave over the range not because I don't like that look but I feel because my kitchen is more symmetrical it tends to be a focal point in the room. I'm a little bit more of a less is more person so I would like to downplay that Area being a focal point with a moderate style undercabinet hood like this.

Are you saying no cabinets at all on window wall? Upper and lower or just upper?

Im A don't fix what ain't broken girl too, unless money is growing on trees that I didn't know about ;)

Correct the crown molding does not go up to the ceiling my idea there was to do a low profile top molding block style.

I do like the idea of glass inserts especially because I have a glass eat in kitchen table and I think it helps tie it in better but my DH is not real hip on the glass inserts. i actually love the glass inserts in the stacked cabinets here like the pic above, but not sure if I could pull that off? what do you think? i have 42 uppers now but I'm thinking the kitchen in that pic has 10 foot ceilings plus!

My small island is fine I use it every day to prep I know it looks like it is in my way of the workflow but it is not. Actually can't imagine not having it and have considered just keeping it but squaring it off say 36 x 36 ?

Not sure the peninsula idea would work if you have pictures please share thanks so much!

Sena01 so what if we decided to rip the flooring out ? Do you see big changesthat could take place in this space if we were to do that ? I guess I am completely open if there is a way to have a beautiful functional kitchen who wouldn't be :) thanks for that link if we do go down that road .

Daisychain 01 No basement we are on a slab yes and option to run electrical is on the table with a thought of a microwave drawer in the island. Not sure if it's my Choice as we have to dig up the floor and not loving that placement being low and also the cabinet width it would take up in the island would not allow me to have a pullout trash recycle next to it.

Good morning MaWizz:) No, of course I meant just no uppers on that window wall..unless you totally change the layout to that L plus an island as was suggested above

I went through my Kitchens and Baths board(very nice board..hmmm))))I stopped planning my own kitchen and bath long time ago but I never stopped collecting the images..))..I found THE picture..mind you I totally understand it has no relationship whatsoever to what you've got now, or what you might want to arrive to..it's just a picture of a peninsula that I consider a) very pretty b) very functional..in some space X. I was seriously considering something like that, but then we've opted for more enclosed look and u-shape instead.

Lazy_gardens you sound like my girlfriends they say it's white and white is boring. I'm not boring. I will try to get a drawing up. the adjacent room is a great room and hallway so two openings.

I'm interested in how you would improve function without dramatic changes please share !

Mayflowers I actually did read that thread twice before posting am I missing something?

i was actually hoping to get non-biased comments and opinions before posting KD's drawing .

Herbflavor thanks for your feedback I actually requested the KD to do all drawers in lower cabinets except island. Sorry not a two-tone fan here. I might need an interior designer after all this ! I never thought of making the window wall a beautiful focus thank you for that idea. Thanks for your support I hope I can make it really nice. :)

Writersblock let's just say I did have money to burn (I do have a pretty good budget for this if I can take it to something really awesome) and let's just say it is going to be in a magazine give me your ideas! And yes the cabinets are falling apart see the pictures above. i've considered that island idea you suggested on the other hand I do like it to store large odd serving trays and such.

Practigal yes we do use the table! ALOT!! Just For parties we will overflow into the dining room but it's on the other side of the great room.

you might be right about me being too focused on the ugliness. Don't want any regrets.

One thing that jumps out for me is to break up the wall of uppers on your focal wall when you change to dark cabinets. The looming wall o' wood was a concern of mine when I put in a cherry kitchen with cabs to the ceiling in a north-facing room. So I'm glad to see that you're ditching the over-the-range microwave. I would like to see a chimney hood or a pro canopy hood that is sized to be 6" larger than the stove, pushing the cabinets back and giving the stove and hood more presence. With a chimney hood, you should move the cabinets back a few inches from the hood so it's not squished in between cabinets. 2" is the minimum but I'd shoot for more space.

Another thing I'd do is turn the pantry so it's accessed from the side. You'd have a very large shallow cabinet with double doors. It's easier to access items than in the deep pantry you have now, and you can go as shallow as 8" if you use it for food storage. You also avoid the expense of a pull-out pantry unit ($1000). It allows you to move the fridge down and give your microwave a little breathing room.

DrB477 just looking for general layout ideas from the pics posted ... as for the drawing I will try to do that but that's what I'm paying the KD to do lol. I did read that thread I'm obviously missing something?

Am I not suppose to ask questions without posting a drawing or layout?

fyi the island does not block the sink to fridge. If it helps I stood in front of the sink and took the pic of the refrigerator wall in the pic above. So I have a straight open path. That's a 43" walkway.

you think it would look right without the island?

suzanne_sl so my KD is working on all new cabinets and maybe see where we can make changes with cabinets or appliances that wouldn't be too crazy. my input to him was I was thinking of keeping the same footprint As I thought that would be the most cost-effective however I am open to suggestions and I wanted him to keep an open mind too.

Yeah as you see above the cabinets need to go there in bad shape.

Oh my gosh your project sounds like a fun one at 1964!

The close-up pictures you added of all the problems are appreciated. I often see kitchens here and elsewhere and think what is wrong with those cabinets? In your case, you truly need some new ones! Looking forward to reading about your progression. The wallpaper, lighting and window treatments look like a time capsule from the 1970s.

Aprilneverends thanks for the pic. I love that! we actually did that in our last house because we had big odd space between the kitchen and dining area. It was my husbands idea at the last minute and we loved it. Very functional and was used a lot. Ours was a closed cabinet below on an angle like that, but love how they did that top and bottom way better than what we did. Very creative and makes it more upscale, pretty and special. Wish I saw that then.

wouldnt work here as there would not be enough space between it and my large eat in kitchen dining set.

Mayflowers DH and I are not totally sold on breaking up the run of cabinets on the back wall. we have seen that and a lot of pictures but we were thinking if we go to the dark cabinets the one long flat run might look more contemporary?

I have looked at some different style hoods including the chimney Hood's but I don't want it to look dinky LOL or that the cabinets are disconnected and just kind of floaty. If I didn't do a under cabinet hood I think I would want a big chunky hood. But not sure what that is? I do think by moving the microwave even if I do a small undercabinet hood will still improve The look.

wow interesting pantry suggestion never thought of that, that's a great idea! Definitely going to keep that in mind!

mobuddy89 yes pictures don't lie. Thanks so much! Ha ha yes about the wallpaper lighting and window treatments until it was gone I literally felt like I was going into a different era in time. Yuck!

This is all I could find with a quick search through Houzz. I'm not sure of the search term to use to find pics of pantry cabinets adjacent to fridges. This one is very shallow because it's only for spices.

Storage Beyond the Norm! · More Info

A long flat run of dark cabinets is pretty typical for new construction when the builder does the entire neighborhood at once. I'd use a pro style canopy hood to make it look more custom.

brochure scans · More Info

Encinitas remodel · More Info

Finally back:)

I do like the micro by the fridge. I used to have a microwave on a microwave shelf and I found it a little high for me - but I am short and so are my daughters. If I ever design a kitchen for myself I will have the microwave lower than the upper shelf. I may do something like this:

To do a kitchen like Loretta's the fridge and oven would be on the same wall. Then there would be no cabinetry at all on the present wall with the fridge so that there would be room for an island. You want 42 inches between sink and island. You can do less space between island and wall (that side of the island would have the seating) but you probably want at least 36 inches there. I do not know if you would want to give up the cabinetry for the island or now need to redo the floor for a style change. I will say that with my wood cabinetry (which I prefer too), I am glad I am not surrounded by it, but have an open wall for decor and that lightens up the space.

I think a few measurements will help with workable suggestions.

I have a very vintage French Country kitchen. It is in my idea book but I don't think it offers inspiration for the modern space you are planing except it is an L with an island:)

mayflowers thanks for the pic of that pantry. that is a cool idea still thinking about that only not sure about having to walk around it to open that is actually the entry to the kitchen for us? Love those hoods in the pics you posted exactly what I'm thinking and have saved in pics on my phone! The second one you posted actually is the same type of kitchen with the vaulted ceiling.

jhmarie i considered that also but without a counter in front lord knows some one will pull out something to hot and with no where to set it drop it on the tile. Ugh. Still considering having it below in the lower cabinet where I have just taped off for wine/beverage cooler. Don't know if I really want or need that?