AuntieDiDi's Project: Simple improvements to our current layout?

7 years ago

Hello Again,

Back with another approach to our project. We're thinking that we let dreaming get the best of us and that our budget really can't cover some of the ideas that have been proposed. Now we're exploring how we can improve our layout without moving the loading bearing wall and the HVAC and maybe keeping appliances close to their current locations. We'd rather have the increased function of the dining room conversion than the big fancy kitchen. We're generally happy with what we have except for the reasons I outlined in my original post, namely:

1. Garage door location

2. Dishwasher location

3. Lack of good sized prep area right next to a sink.

4. Need more pantry space

We realize our aisle widths are not NKBA compliant but they haven't bothered us in the 5 years we've been living here. Hubs and I can stand "butt-to-butt" between the main sink and island without feeling cramped at all. There is a bit of a pinch point between the basement door and the big island if someone is sitting there, but it's not a regular problem. It's a compromise we've lived with and are willing to endure to keep our big island.

This drawing utilized "basic" appliances (36" French Door fridge, 30 inch range) although there is so much added counter space along the range wall maybe an oven/mw stack or the Frigidaire columns could work. I left it simple just to see what kind of feedback is given. I also tossed in a prep sink on the little island after seeing a couple other threads with a prep sink on similar sized islands. Hard to let parts of my wishlist go:)

So, thoughts?

Measurements:

Lots more pics in my original post here.

Featured Answer

mama goose_gw zn6OH

7 years ago

If you don't move the laundry upstairs, I'd combine your ideas with benjesbride's, similar to your inspiration pic with a peninsula. I drew the optional wall oven on your plan--even though it is in the walkway, you won't have the door open that often, and if you do a range and extra oven, you can combine it with the MW--and you have the alternate route through the mudroom. I pulled the fridge out of the alcove, and put a shallow base and upper beside it, for some landing space, and storage for dishes in glass upper. The space behind it can be added to the pantry.

I would also consider a few other options--opening a pass-through in the load-bearing wall, which would open up your prep space. Without the island, you have plenty of floor space, so I would take out the pony wall and pull the cabinets forward 6", which would give you space for shallow cabinets or shelves on the DR side. You could use that space for extra pantry storage, school supplies, paper products, table linens, etc. I also moved the sink over, even with the edge of the support wall. The cabinet under the peninsula can open from both sides, with flatware and some dishes in the drawers beside the DW. Stools on the short sides are optional, in favor of another base cabinet.

I'd make the pantry wider, and the laundry shallower--if you use folding doors you can open them completely and use the hallway as an extension of the work space as you load or unload the machines. I really like the circular flow of the plan--kids can come in through the garage and walk through the mudroom area, straight upstairs without passing through the kitchen. We have lived in several houses with a circular traffic pattern--current house has a 'figure 8'--and I love it.

Dish storage and shallow landing for fridge:

One thing I wanted to mention about keeping the laundry on the first floor--if you plan to stay in this house after the kids are grown and gone, and if you have a room on the same floor, which can be converted to a bedroom, it will be easier to age in place. My master bedroom is on the first floor, near the laundry room. I always thought it was easier for the kids to transport their own laundry, than for me to take it up and down for them. I don't recall--do you have a bathroom on the first floor?

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Comments (33)

sheloveslayouts
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Are you at all interested in posting your second floor layout so we can see about getting that laundry up there? I'd really like to take a stab at it.
auntiedidi
Original Author
7 years ago
Sure, I'll do a hand sketch tomorrow.
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But lirio, you didn't answer number 9 ... nobody likes me? ; ) *wink* We're a family of just two as well. AND we eat out or to go orders almost every meal (except cereal). Talk about a fish out of water planning a kitchen !! But thanks for the kudos. Maybe I did learn a little something in all these years. By popular request, here is what we have for the plan for the rest of that floor so far. Nothing special, a couple bedrooms, 2 baths, 1/2 bath, and an elevator (a "must have" as it's 25 steps just from ground level up to the first floor!!) . . . Next floor up has 4 bedrooms, small office, 4 baths, a 1/2 bath, laundry, and a 2nd small living area (basically a sofa facing tv - a great area we will have set up for kids to hang out and play XBox). The office and the 2nd living area have Murphy beds so they can do double duty at night. Top floor is lookout/3rd living area, and 12x18 deck opening to roof (8x18 covered porch with table/chairs and 4x18 open deck). 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Yes, there will also be a great grilling/tiki bar/picnic area on the ground floor (code is no grills on decks). I really appreciae hearing from those of you who do rent places at the beach and how they work (or don't work) for your family. Control, where do you guys vacation ? Most of the time when people say Outer Banks, they are referring to somewhere between Kitty Hawk/Nags Head/Hatteras area. You should give the southern beaches a try ! Our water temp is 10 degrees warmer than Hatteras, wide easy sloping beach with gentle waves and no drop offs, public beach access every 500ft, very family oriented beach (almost all houses, a few 2 story condos, and only one high rise all the way at the end), easy ~20 minutes to North Myrtle tourist mecca if you want a day trip, but lots to do nearby if you want to stay local. In our other house, we have 14 at dining table, 4 at bar, and 6 at patio table right outside the door next to the dining table. So 24 all right together (plus 2 picnic tables under the house). This house will have enough dining if you count the additional dining on the other levels, but definitely a shortage on this level ! Ideas to gain aisle space between stove & island: shorten depth of island cabinet to 22" instead of 24" (wasted space behind back side of drawers anyway), shorten overhang to 13" instead of 15", overhang on front edge of cabinets 1.5" instead of 2" = 47" aisle counter to counter Ideas to gain aisle space in 2 aisles from sink to fridges: can elevator shaft be narrowed any?, fold-down or pullout overhangs. One of those slap forehead, duh why didn't I think of that moments. (note to email plllog, anyone else have fold-downs in their kitchen?) = 46" aisle on each end NKBA suggests 48" aisles for multiple cooks. Can we get away with any less ? Group of moms: I am imagining people lined around the wall - 1 on left of big sink, 1 on right sharing water, 1 at stove, 1 at prep, possibly even 1 to right of prep = 5 workers and nobody has to work butt-to-butt. How much is minimum space we could get away with and still feel comfortable "enough" with a person working at a counter and allowing enough room for another to walk past behind them ? I found on BH&G ... "A 42-inch-wide aisle between opposite countertops is fine, but 48 inches is best where appliances compete, two people work back-to-back, or stools pull out. More than 48 inches is overkill." Noted 3 votes for moving prep sink to island. Where is best place for prep sink and pros/cons ? My original thinking was right of range to avoid butt-to-butt at range and prep in island, but I am open for changes ! Thoughts ? Bigger window at cleanup sink = Yes ! How about 44" wide and coming all the way down to the countertop, with granite going into the window sill ? The house is oceanfront, which is why almost the entire living and dining wall is all windows. I agree the window at the prep sink looks a little out of place. I am open to removing that. I had put it in because this is the view out the prep window . . . Appliances: I am pretty sure that range has 5 burners. I really do think 2 fridges are needed. It can be 90-100 degrees in high summer, which means it takes a lot of space for sodas, milk, juice, water, beer for 20+ people. We usually use one fridge for food stuff and the other whole fridge for beverages. Complete with magnet labels that say "Food" and "Drinks", so you don't have to open both to find what you are looking for. By my measurements, DW open does go into the person at the range's space, but very little, like 1 inch (so range person has 24x29 personal space instead of 24x30). Not sure if the ice maker is crucial ??? What do you guys think ? I wonder if the 2 freezer ice makers can keep up ? Also, would there be enough room if part of the freezer space has to be for store bought ice ? Small Appliances/Pantry: Pantry is planned to be the space for all of the small appliances on the 14" deep shelves to side, a little locked area for us to use as pantry & liquor when we have to leave for a week for an incoming guest (not carry everything all back home, only to carry it back the next weekend), recycling bin, and for pantry space for guests. I have seen groups of guests in the grocery store walking out with 4 gallons of milk, 6 loaves of bread, and etc, so "enough" pantry is important. It doesn't have to be this layout. My concerns/questions: - the look of the island (too small, tall & spindly, top heavy) - DW's/sink/trash layout - sink, then DW, then trash? or sink, then trash, then DW? but need space on right side of DW to unload into uppers - ice maker - yes/no ? - where to locate prep sink - where to throw trash at prep sink - window at prep sink ? - which way to hinge pantry door - aisles width - dining shortage ACK !! I tried to keep this short & concise. Ha. My husband says I talk too much. (and my friends laugh because they all tell me in private they think he talks more than ME!)
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I've been staring at your layout for quite a while and really can't figure out what to suggest. It seems like you have so much space, but the kitchen looks awkward to me. Personally, I wouldn't want the clean up sink on the peninsula looking over the breakfast room, but I'm not really sure where else to suggest moving it. Butler's Pantry - if you really think kids are going to be running thru there, I'm not really sure if I would want it as my "snack center". Imagine when your kids are older and you and your DH are standing in there fixing coffee and bagels and the kids try to run through. Just seems like a small space to get those types of tasks done. Dish storage-I agree with Bmore that the type of hutch you're talking about could be difficult to access. Also, if your dishes are near the sink, they are fairly far from frig, pantry and proposed "snack center". The easiest path is right between the prep sink and range, which could be an issue. I also think you have a long walk with groceries from the garage, thru the mudroom, thru the butlers pantry into the kitchen. Depending on what you do with the pantry/laundry room space, you might want a door from the garage into one of those rooms so you have a straight shot with groceries. This might be crazy, but I almost see a better space with 2 islands instead of that peninsula. Shrink the bigger island the 6' and then add a second island next to it that would house the clean up sink and DW. You could unload dishes into upper cabs and lower drawers on the back wall.It wouldd almost be like a galley kitchen with 2 islands. Or...you could do 1 really long island. Another idea...does the pantry have to be on that side of the kitchen? If you moved it to the other side, eliminated the peninsula, closed up that pantry doorway, you would have more counter space(I think). You could move the range a little further towards the frig and get the clean up sink on the back wall. I'm sorry if this is sounding negative. I'm really just trying to help. There's just something not working for me here. Any chance of widening the kitchen at all? I think the biggest issue is that you have very limited wall space. You only really have the back wall, which when you factor in the doorway for the pantry, there's not that much room there either.
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funky - I totally agree with the practicality of the extra sink, water by the cooktop, the baking area and as a beverage center for parties. Ranges, I don't like them much. The simple freestanding ones are out of the question, spills run down the side into the netherworld between cabinet and stove...yak, shudder! The slide-ins don't create that type of mess and cost less at the outset than built ins, but if either the cooktop or the oven stops working, both need to be replaced, not much of a savings there. We currently have a GE top of the line slide in range in which the oven racks keep falling off the guides as (can anyone even believe this?) the oven walls have started to bow out. So much for "American made" and "top of the line" in today's appliances. Also, we're aiming to achieve a minimalist scandinavian look, and ranges, even the slide-in ones just have so much bulk to them. As to occasionally bending down, it's probably good for us, and just doesn't bother me. I'd say the bending when filling and emptying the dishwasher is much more of an issue, as we do that repeatedly each day and often for a prolonged time. If my DW would butt up to tall cabinetry in my kitchen plan, I'd elevate the DW center to counter height, the way Europeans build theirs right into their cabs, now that would really make a nice difference. benje - I've seen that kitchen, it's very cool looking. An open galley like that is what my dream home would have, so practical and no corners. And yes, it would look and work fabulous in our family room. But, he problem is, the family room would not look good in the old kitchen space, for one the space is just too small. Secondly, the almost wall to wall and floor to ceiling window and sliding door in the current family room are what make sitting there and gazing into the backyard ideal. We also enjoy these views from our kitchen, as we can see through the family room into the backyard. The reverse would not be the case, the kitchen cabinetry would block the view from people who are sitting on low couches. In the current kitchen, the window sills are at ca. 37" and cannot be changed (beneath two of them sits our tall AC). anyway there is no view out the side yard, and we will not add a "picture window" to the front of our house. So, no, I don't think we would ever use this space as a family room. Nice try though benje - thank you.
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laughablemoments
7 years ago
This seems like a workable solution. The one minor thing I see that I'd think about some more is where to place the faucet on the island. The movement is usually fridge to sink to prep to stove, so with the fridge in its new location, I'm wondering if you'd be using the fridge side of the island more than the cleanup sink side. In the mean time, take some painters tape and mark off the end of your island with a prep sink sized island. See how the kitchen functions with a hole there and imagine it as a sink.

I look forward to seeing the upstairs plan to see if we can avoid "killing" the dining room.
suzanne_sl
7 years ago
If you're going to put a prep sink on the island, I would also flip it to the other end closer to the fridge. At the same time, I'd swap the larger and smaller banks of drawers. I'm assuming that you'll use the larger drawers for dishes and silverware. You'll want to be able to stand on the clean up sink side of the open DW to unload into those drawers vs having to walk around to the non-sink side.

I can't tell what size that prep sink is, but you need to make sure it's large enough to be useful to actually do prep. My SIL has one that is more bar sink size and there's no way anyone cuts up a bunch of veggies in that dinky sink. (Actually, they aren't big on prepping veggies regardless :-) ) Think about scrubbing celery, rinsing lettuce, and washing apples. Will the water splash all over the floor?

Another thought: You don't have to make that second island a place people can sit and eat. There's a dining table less than 10' away. If you need extra storage that space may be better utilized as a back-to-back cabinets. If people just want to hang out and be social, they can prop themselves up on the counter, pitch in and help, or bring a chair over.
auntiedidi
Original Author
7 years ago
laughable - yes, I originally had it facing the other direction but switched it because thru traffic passes on that side of the island. But like I said, not sure if a prep sink makes sense in a small space anyway.

suzanne - Hi! Thanks for your comments. I was imagining dishes would go in either the drawer stack next to the dishwasher or in the right side of the cab, but really didn't spend much time thinking and can see your point too.

The prep sink is in a 24 inch base to allow for a sink at least 18 in. That seems to be the consensus on a good size from the many other threads I've read.

As for the second island, we currently eat all of our meals there and really like it. So much so that we don't want to give it up even considering other options. That island is inviting to everyone that walks into the house - it is almost constantly occupied by at least one person: us, family, friends, guests, etc. We'd much prefer having extra storage in a walk-in pantry. We shop a lot in bulk.
auntiedidi
Original Author
7 years ago
OK, here is my attempt at sketching the upstairs. It is obviously not drawn to scale but I tried:) I included quick room measurements though.

Other Notes:
- The shaded brown area is hallway
- The dark black/gray shaded spots are spaces we can't see into. I know the spot by Bedroom #1 is the continuation of the HVAC/pipes/etc. column in my kitchen. It runs from the basement all the way through the attic.
laughablemoments
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
What a nice amount of space you have up there. The first spot I'd look to would be right next to the hvac chase since it seems the easiest to tie in to drains and water right through that chase. You could steal some space from bedroom 1's closet. Either a tiny bit, by doing a stackable unit, or a lot, doing a side by side and maybe even some cabinets and folding counter (with hampers below?). If you decide to give up the whole closet to the laundry, small closets could be built around the windows, maybe even with window seats in between, all cozy-like.Window seats and closets
auntiedidi
Original Author
7 years ago
That's an interesting idea! Access might be difficult since that hallway is narrow (like the width of a standard doorway). That closet is also a reach-in so not deep at all. I know my drawings aren't to scale! Also, I for sure need hanging space. I don't dry a lot of our clothing pieces.

DH isn't crazy about stealing bedroom space and the thought he had was in the room above the garage but I wonder if it would be a "weird" location.

So, assuming laundry goes up - what does that buy me downstairs? I'm excited to see!
rantontoo
7 years ago
Carving a laundry area out of the bonus room would not be a weird location. If you have a front load washer, you might be able to "tuck" the machines farther back into the current wall space thus taking away less space in the bonus room.
laughablemoments
7 years ago
So, assuming laundry goes up - what does that buy me downstairs? I'm excited to see!

Well, what things do you need dedicated space for that you don't have right now? Sewing, crafts, an office, a music room (we just got a baby grand, so I'm very excited about music in our house right now!), a library, a guest bedroom or in law space, the lockers + something else like a combo of crafts and gift wrapping, a playroom, an exercise zone? An away zone?

If you hang many items to dry, then it makes even more sense to me to put the laundry upstairs since I'm not sure where you'd do that on the first floor, but the bonus room looks ample for the task.
sheloveslayouts
7 years ago
I think I saw a desk in your family room in your first post. That's why I assumed you homeschooled downstairs. Would you like an office-y space?
laughablemoments
7 years ago

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auntiedidi
Original Author
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Oh! Haha, I thought perhaps you had some magical ideas about how to layout the pantry and mudroom.

...what things do you need dedicated space for that you don't have right now?

A large pantry, mudroom and laundry room. Seriously - that's it. I have another 1300 sq. feet in the basement that you haven't "seen":) We already have spaces for almost everything in your list laughable! Several are in the bonus room - it's quite large! Homeschooling over here looks like the three kids being in separate spaces around the house. They have a basket with their stuff they can tote around. Things actually get done if they aren't all together. They come to sit with me one on one in the school room for a small part of each day. But mostly the school room is where we can keep all of the stuff!

Benje - That desk you saw functions as the command center of the main floor. It has the family laptop on it and other things that need to be visible so they don't fall off the grid (out of sight, out of mind)! We love that it is in the heart of our everyday space but we can (and do!) clear it off and use it as a table for big parties. We have a large office space in the bonus room.

laughable - I whipped out my trusty measuring tape and played around with your idea about the laundry closet in the hall. It would actually only require taking 5 inches of the room but then I would still need to find a place for a closet. My silly drawing isn't accurate and there's just a sliver of space on the outside of each of the windows so I could only build in-between them. My daughter would be losing a lot of closet space.

The proposed laundry space on the main floor would be much bigger than I can fit up here. So the only advantage is not having to do the stairs, right?
auntiedidi
Original Author
7 years ago
Any other thoughts about the kitchen layout? The only other I have so far was inspired by a picture I saw on Houzz...

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sheloveslayouts
7 years ago
This is just my opinion, but --to put it bluntly--I think it's a ginormous mistake in a home this size to lose main floor living space to a laundry room. Especially since all the bedrooms are upstairs. It may not be of concern to you, but I do think it would negatively impact resale value compared to a second floor laundry.

You may think it's crazy, but I think the small bedroom would be the perfect laundry room. It's located between the bathrooms, so there should be fairly easy access to plumbing. To make laundry hauling a bit easier you could add a hatch for a dirty laundry drop from bathroom to laundry room and/or a small door from the laundry room into your master closet so you can just scoot a basket between the two instead of hauling it (I've seen this over on the building a home forum.)

Here's a laundry room idea for that small bedroom. I think it would be fantastic! And it seems proportionate to a house this size.

If you have such a large basement, I don't think the bonus room becoming a kid's bedroom would be a huge loss. Looking at the floor plan, it makes sense. However, I admit it might not in real life. If the bonus room is too big for a kid's room, maybe you could extend the hallway, turn the bottom left corner into a 6 ft wide storage closet and make the bedroom entrance above the hallway instead of at the end.
sheloveslayouts
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Okay. Here's another run at your kitchen. Such a wonderful puzzle!

- the garage door moves to the dining room

- the present pantry closet/fridge alcove becomes a walk-in pantry that extends into about 30" into the present dining room

-the fridge and freezer are on the hvac wall and the new pantry wall

- the only entrance to kitchen from garage is through the present doorway between kitchen and dining

- instead of an island, there's a peninsula across from the basement door
practigal
7 years ago
I guess I am confused. Do you already have this laundry room or not? If not, then I agree with those who say-put it upstairs that's where the clothing is. However it's exact location does not seem to matter as much as what you did with the bigger part of the kitchen.

Yes! Scarsdale kithcen number one-perfect! I was thinking that two Ls in that kitchen space would be a much better use of that space and that odd depth wall. If you wanted you could make that wall appear to be a completely flush wall covered with cabinets some of the cabinets would just be much deeper than others. It would give a nice unifying look without too much cost.
laughablemoments
7 years ago
I think the Scarsdale kitchen idea works pretty well for your space. I like the fact that there is a second opening making it easier to get to the table from the kitchen. I'm not crazy about having to circle around that loooong peninsula to use the table in the latest plan Mamagoose posted. (It does great things for the kitchen, but not so great things for getting to the table.)

If you did the Scarsdale idea, would you still eat all your meals around the sink? That's going to feel quite different than circling around the island for meals the way you do now, so think that through to make sure you are comfortable eating around your prep and cleanup space. Also,some folks might even be trying to peer around the arch of the faucet to talk with each other. For sitting while someone is cooking, it's great, but I'm not so sure about sitting like that for 3 meals a day.
auntiedidi thanked laughablemoments
sheloveslayouts
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
eta: whoops. I didn't see that Mama addressed the five at the peninsula requirement above.

I thought of a way to seat 5 at that peninsula:
auntiedidi thanked sheloveslayouts
auntiedidi
Original Author
7 years ago
Hey everyone! Thanks again for your input, I really appreciate the very honest and helpful feedback that can be found here.

Benje - your persistence caused me to contact our longtime realtor. He is very successful and also very knowledgeable about renovations. He came over today and we walked around discussing ideas. He agrees with you and says that people looking at houses at our price point are looking for the formal dining room. He says it's on it's way out but that won't be the case for maybe 15 years around here. We are in VA about 20 miles south of DC. He also thinks we need to preserve the open feeling in the foyer. So....we keep the dining room space but I will look into making it more functional with cabinets or something for all the kid stuff. He also advised against laundry in the small bedroom but your idea about that storage closet in the bonus room gave us some great ideas about how to add the laundry there. Didn't occur to us to add the laundry to square footage found in the bonus room but have the access to it be in the hallway!

Mamagoose: I agree with Laughable's comments about having to walk around that large peninsula. Would definitely drive me nuts and create a pinch point for traffic in/out of the Morning Room when we have people over. Sometimes I wish the Morning Room wasn't there because I love the functionality of the layout you drafted. Your idea about the shallow cabinets by pulling out the fridge is genius!! In my drawing below I wrapped them around the corner to create a sort of drop zone for the garage entry (keys, mail, etc.) I also really like your idea to have the shallow cabs on the backside of the "main cabinets" for extra storage. Incorporated some of that in my drawing below.

Laughable - Yeah, the one big downside to the Scarsdale plan is I'm nervous about having the prep/clean-up spaces take center stage. But I think that this is going to have to be one of the compromises made and I'm OK with that when I think about it that way. I've read enough posts around here where people say that it is not a big deal or they love it. As for having 7 stools.....eh. I drew them in because space allowed but I think I may want to incorporate MamaGoose's shallow cab idea on the far end. So basically only 5 stools around the corner end. It's still there for now because I can easily change it without affecting the rest of the layout.

Scarsdale layout modifications:

- Added walk-in pantry by shrinking the Morning Room. Think the door would have to be on a diagonal to be wide enough

- Added a small wall by the garage door to create a bit of an "entry" and shield it a bit from the formal dining room.

- Tried out a 48 inch range
laughablemoments
7 years ago
The kitchen is looking good, but hopefully others will evaluate it, too, since I sometimes miss things! (Actually, I just looked back, and see a pinch point at cupboard #9. That looks too tight.)

What types of things do you hope to store in your pantry? If it's not big stuff, a wall of storage might work better since it would infringe on the seating area less than the walk-in pantry would. There is something to be said for opening the pantry door and shoving something inside when necessary, though. ; )

So...one of the needs isn't addressed yet in this plan, and that's the mudroom storage area. This was the solution we came up with for our dining room, and I wonder if something similar could work for you. We were in desperate need of storage, too. Lurking behind the left door is floor to ceiling shelves full of shoes!
We built shallow closets (about 20" deep) on either side of the window, with plans to put a window seat in at some point in the future. It looks like you don't have enough room by your windows for this, so what if you did this on the dining room wall along the garage, and put a buffet between the closets. A little like this? (Imagine a closet down there on the one side of the arch, and a matching one on the other side.) You could put a buffet like piece of furniture between the closets, but use it for mudroom type storage. This way you retain the look of a dining room, yet gain the function of a mudroom.

Classic Kitchen · More Info

Urban Sophistication · More Info

Or, you could do shelves in the middle like below, you know, for your kids nature study finds, lol. However, I do think the room will feel bigger if you don't put shelves in the middle, and do a piece of furniture that's no more than counter height in the center, with a piece of artwork or mirror above it. But, you know your storage needs best!
Clay Street · More Info
auntiedidi
Original Author
7 years ago
Laughable - thanks for reminder that I didn't decrease the size of the HVAC column! I noticed when examining my daughter's bedroom closet that the HVAC column wasn't as wide. That prompted us to open up a return vent and it appears we could shrink that column by at least 4 inches and maybe up to a foot! So those drop-zone cabinets will of course depend on whether or not there is enough space for a busy aisle.

I love your dining room storage solution. What gorgeous doors! I can tell that I would love walking around and admiring your home. I should clarify that when I say we are keeping the formal dining room - we are keeping the space for resale/future owner. We have zero need to use it as a dining space and so we want to make it functional for our family without structural/permanent changes. Would love to toss about some more ideas with you for that! The counter height table that is in there now will go down to the basement and became the game table.

As for the pantry - yes, I definitely want to store big things in it. Especially since there aren't a whole lot of cabinets in the kitchen plan. Step ladder for the upper cabinets, broom, mop, hand vac, pitchers, several small appliances (2 different size slow cookers, electric griddle, Kitchen Aid mixer, Vitamix, regular coffee pot), I also want to store the bulk purchases. Right now we use two very large industrial storage shelves in the basement and one in the garage. I also have lots of paper products on hand all the time because we host and entertain at least twice a week. Still finishing up my inventory of stuff using buehl's list.

I've read over and over that a walk-in pantry is cheaper than doing cabinets and the ability to see everything in one glance is hugely appealing to me. I have our table and chairs moved over to where it would be if the pantry was there. We'll live with it awhile to make sure it doesn't feel cramped for everyday life. There's always a coziness around the table for large holiday gatherings, but no one minds since it affords us the opportunity to eat together. The actually eating never takes long!
auntiedidi
Original Author
7 years ago
Laughable - reread your post. Your storage ideas work in dining rooms so shouldn't adversely affect resale. Duh. Once I figure out what we want to have in there, I will definitely look at these inspiration pics again!
auntiedidi
Original Author
7 years ago
Tweaked MamaGoose's plan!
powermuffin
7 years ago
That's a long way to take things from the fridge to the sink. I would want a landing space by the fridge-also for setting down groceries that go into the fridge.
auntiedidi
Original Author
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Yeah - that was one of the factors we had to weigh when thinking about fridge placement and the pantries with this layout. MamaGoose had a shallow counter there but we'd rather have pantries than take things out to set on a counter just to move them again. In thinking about a typical day around here, most breakfasts and lunches could be prepped between sink and peninsula. Fridge to sink is 7'3" but only 4'4" (so 4 inches longer than NKBA recommends) to end of peninsula but we chose to keep that aisle width. Didn't think about setting down groceries going into fridge. I've always set them on the floor.

Here's the distances between appliances:
laughablemoments
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Your distances look fine. See rule #3 of kitchen design here: 31 Rules of Kitchen Design. You could lengthen the peninsula so that there is a 48" walkway to get the end of the counter closer to the fridge, if you feel that the drop zone being closer to the fridge is more important than a wider walkway. While it's nice to have counter next to the fridge, it really works best for a single door fridge. It's not quite as handy when you are filling a French door or side by side unit since you have to work around those bat wings. Then, I think it's helpful to have an island directly across the way, which you almost have with the peninsula.

This is a great layout. The few (slight) cautions I have are

1. Will you have enough pantry space?

2. Are you ok with the table being so far around the horn?

3. Prep sink? Are you considering doing a wider sink with 2 faucets, or are you content with a big single sink?
auntiedidi
Original Author
7 years ago
Laughable! I'm so glad to hear your thoughts:) . Especially about the fridge drop zone since I've never had a french door unit.

Regarding your concerns which are the exact same as mine!

1. I don't know, which is one reason why we put the two 18" W x 15" D pantry cabs next to the fridge and another 18" w x 24" D by the wall ovens. Even with those I think I will need more for bulk things and less frequently used items but I'm still keen on your idea about two closets that I could build on the back Morning Room wall. It would require a hike around the peninsula, but hopefully that would be not often and still much closer than the trip I make to the basement now. Plus - it's pretty!

2. I pushed my current island to where the peninsula would be last week. I actually did it out of frustration of not being able to find a good layout! DH and I were shocked that we really like how it opens up the area in front of the basement door. It also had the unexpected benefit of making the kitchen feel bigger. Those two things coupled with the fact that I get better storage, better appliances, better prep space and better light in the kitchen are helping me to deal with the fact that I don't like how far the table is around the horn. But, I have figured out that it's actually easy to push food and dishes across the counter towards the table. Then you don't actually have to walk around carrying things. And vice versa for clean-up. Most meals it's just me and the 3 kids so we can do those on the peninsula. For dinner, we may keep the kids at the peninsula while we eat at the table so we can actually finish a conversation....ha!
laughablemoments
7 years ago
Aw, thanks auntiedidi.

Have you thought about putting the closets in the dining room? That seems like an easier space to access for pantry items. And I love your hutch, so I hope it gets to stay. : )

Trying out the layout before you buy it is a great idea. I heartily recommend leaving your island scooted up like a peninsula for several weeks, if possible. Sometimes when our family tries something, it's new! It's exciting! We love it! ...until a few weeks go by and then we see the downsides once the newness wears off.

Ha! I hear you about kiddo chatter. It's wonderful, but there are days DH and I will have to tell the kids that they've had there turn and now mommy and daddy are going to talk for awhile. Otherwise, it can be tough to get a word in edgewise.
mama goose_gw zn6OH
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
I haven't read the latest comments, but I was thinking about your plan recently when someone posted MissTKO's kitchen, with a long peninsula:
Link to pics

ETA, can you include a pull-out board in the tall pantry beside the fridge, for landing space? This one is beside a wall oven stack, but it's the same idea:
auntiedidi
Original Author
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Yes, MamaG! I must have seen that same post because I went to look for all the details about that kitchen! I even tried out a fat peninsula to seat five like that island - but it was just too wide. Very interesting idea about the pull out board! I've not seen that before. You're thinking we'll be that annoyed by no landing space by the fridge? I have such close landing space now it's hard to know!

Laughable - hadn't thought much about putting them in the dining room because I couldn't figure out where exactly. Any thoughts? If I do them in the Morning Room, I was thinking they would be small and the blue hutch would still be between them!

Good point about the newness. I'll heed that advice. I've even taped off the fridge and pantries and hung bed sheets on the pony wall side to simulate the shallow depth cabinets. It really helps think through things!
laughablemoments
7 years ago
Could the closets go in the dining room against the garage wall with coat hooks and a maybe a bench in between?

I love the breadboard pullout mamag posted, but if you are getting a French door fridge, it's not going to work. The bottom of the fridge door comes lower than counter height, so the fridge would bang into the pullout when you open the door. We have a similar problem with our French door and DW door when they are opened simultaneously. Our fridge has dents in it from this problem. :(