I am absolutely having those thoughts. We're doing a major remodel and addition and are 70% through our project. A combination of the economy and the change orders we faced early-on have made us really nervous. We've already changed to IKEA cabinets, but are including Scherr's doors so that the appearance will approach our original custom design. I'm looking at all of the finishes, tile, faucets, sinks, and trying to find savings.

I don't think I'm going to end up spending any less, but I think that the final product will be less colorful and fun than it would have been otherwise. I just feels unseemly to go with the bright mosaic tiles, so I will likely use white subway instead-- and the soapstone veining will be more quiet than I originally considered. Just a reflection of current state of mind.

Well, I've postponed the major remodel for the time being and am likely going to scale back unless things pick up soon since we bought last fall, and I don't want to over-improve thereby causing me to be unable to sell in the future (we're not planning to move, but you just never know what life will throw your direction).

i'm not scaling back because (a) my income is pretty unrelated to the economy, (b) I have no plans to move, and (c) almost everyone in my neighborhood has already done something to update the kitchen, so I won't be over-improving. I think a lot of the local "just because we can/the Joneses have done it so we have to" projects are being put on the back burner. I don't have an unlimited budget and I am concerned about saving $ in general (who isn't?).

Louisa - This won't last forever. I don't think you should make major design decisions based on a sagging economy. We've been through this before and we'll go through it again. In between the economy will soar and we'll all feel rich (and you'll probably wish you had bright mosaic tiles and very 'veiny' soapstone).

we waited for this to begin our build. wood for framing is down and all the subs our builder usually hires are waiting for us. we look at it as a kind of "sale".

I look at this as an opportunity to get things for a bit less since people are "desperate" for work.

We are about to start a very involved remodel (in the very, very beginning phases) and this whole economy thing does have me scared to death as my DH's income is based on the economy (or people's reaction to it).

I love our home and where it is, but I am still looking at other real estate and wondering if we wouldn't be better off just buying another home.

We are remodeling b/c we need more space not just for cosmetics; however, I want to do it right b/c I could live there forever barring no unforseen circumstances. I am just very scared of what is under the walls once we start opening them up. What extra costs we will run into.

This whole thing has me feeling like I am jumping off of a cliff not sure if my umbrella is going to open!

Shannon

* Posted by houseful: I look at this as an opportunity to get things for a bit less since people are "desperate" for work.

Sheesh. Nice attitude! Why not consider scaling back a little bit instead of looking for ways to gyp your contractors. They're just trying to make a living too. It's not like your average plumber or carpenter lives high on the hog.

Taking advantage of people's desperation to salvage your dreams at the expense of theirs.

What about caring for others in our community and trying to make a win-win situation for everyone. Try partnering with your contractors to reduce costs instead of screwing them over.

We've cut back by 30%. DH's job is easily affected by a slowdown, and as he's close to retirement as well, we figured it made more sense to cut back and put that money into the retirement fund. We don't NEED the bells and whistles that were in the original plan. We plan on staying in this house, but you never know: in this town, if we move, whoever buys it will gut the kitchen and enlarge it anyway, regardless of the market. So, no point in spending more than we need.

In fact, I actually prefer the revised plan I made. Switched from custom cabinets to Ikea (which I liked anyway), changed flooring, decided to leave the backsplash for now (which I can DIY later: I've done tile before). Changed to cheaper light fittings: can always upgrade later. Cut out one wall of cabinets in favour of re-finishing a table we already have, with another we'll buy. Again, we can always add them back at a later date.

Incidentally, in our neighbourhood, our GC says his workload has increased because people who would have moved to larger houses are now staying put, unable to sell, and adding on, so contractors aren't necessarily 'desperate' for work! YMMV.

I think everyone's situation, and everyone's community, is different, and will make different choices depending on re-sale intentions, job security etc.

We recently made some adjustments to our remodeling budget due to many money-related factors.

I traded in my Silestone dream for off-the-shelf laminate, and I am using my current refrigerator for another year (or longer) instead of upgrading right now. We are also looking for less expensive flooring options (sheet vinyl, perhaps, instead of expensive tile).

kailleamn, in our areas its the contractors who have for the past 5-6 years taken advantage of the homeowners, jacking their prices to the point of the ridiculous, thus adding fuel to the fire of our exploding housing market. I totally understand and agree with houseful. Now that things are tightening up around here, more contractors are looking for work -- which means they are scaling back their prima donna attitudes and making their services more available and more reasonable/affordable. It's a sale that was long overdue.

My dreams were quite unrealistic, partly fueled by comments on GW. Cabinet costs very greatly, and I was hoping I could find a local custom shop to do high end cabs for the price of mid-range (as cabinets prices go) cabs. I've spent hours-days-weeks- DH would say months - trying to find the perfect mix of cost, functionality and style.

In answer to your question, no we are not scaling back our budget because we have been very conservative for months. That said, DH has a job wholly unaffected by the economy and I work very little. We could spend many times our budget if we chose, but our priorities are getting DS through grad & post grad school and then retiring without any debt.

I was in our village's building permit office yesterday and they told me that building permit business is booming. More projects are underway than 2 years ago.

We did decide to not push out major wall due to cost, but also time concerns. I do think that contractors who where trying to get 50-70% more on jobs due to demand might have to scale back expectations. Mine never jacked up his bottom line (friend and small company) so he is getting same. I do think that at this time you "might" get more attentions since some people do not have as many jobs going on at the same time.

I expect (hope to still be able to regain same amount back in resale (if I ever move) even if economy is slow now.

We are just going for it and doing it well , in case I lose my job and have to sell. It will be a nice kitchen to buy. However, I might be too stressed to goo answer since I am still planning design.

Nope - we didn't scale back. Actually, I fall along the lines of Houseful. We ended up getting our contractor to come down in price by being flexible in terms of our timing so they could fill their own potential downtime. I don't see it being cheap at all - just prudent. After all, we had three competing bids and we liked the cabinets and workmanship of the highest bid. But their price was out of line with the others and we negotiated it down. It was a win-win IMO. We still paid more than we could have with the other two - but we got the best cabinets and workmanship. They on the other hand booked a job during a time when they would not have been working

Great question as I've been struggling with this myself lately. The company I work for may be declaring Chapter 11 and while I think my job is safe(at least for now), you never know. And although many people here have posted that their jobs are safe and not affected by economic changes, it is costing significantly more for EVERYTHING these days. From gas, to bread, milk, eggs...everything. So even if your job is "secure"(which these days it seems like anything can happen to anyone at anytime), you are still spending more everyday for daily needs.

I have/had been considering moving doors/windows, which can take a significant bite out of my budget. Since I am still in the planning stage(and have been for quite a while), I am going to relook at a possible layout without those expenditures. While this is my forever home, I do have 2 children that will need to go to college and retirement to continue to save for. I have been second guessing the amount of money I'm budgeting for this remodel for quite a while(maybe I'm just too conservative/"cheap" for my own good). But I'm going to think about it a little harder now. And I do know that what goes down, does eventually go up. But it's never a bad thing to take a second look and make sure there will be no regrets.

OK...I'm getting off my soap box now.

It's been very interesting in my town. Housing market is in a slump like everywhere else. Instead of buying/moving up everyone is renovating and putting on additions.

There has been some serious bad news in the markets lately but not as bad as expected. I don't know if anyone noticed but the market isn't taking big hits on the bad news. There's been some recent up days. It's a sign . Investors are banking on the first quarter of 2009 to be better than the first quarter of 2008. Still some rocky days ahead though. JMHO

Gee, I don't recall saying I was going to screw anyone over.

We too did the project now b/c of the lower cost and big sales/free financing etc on so many items!

Hi, Original poster here and looks like my question struck a chord. Everyone's situation is unique and different parts of the country chime in w/ different variations on a theme.My project is a "forever" family house but I worry as I watch our living expenses rise and we have a ways to go. luckily Im a bargain hunter..now if only I could find some affordable vanities!

BerryBerry - that's exactly the kind of partnering I was referring to. You accomodated the contractor's schedule a bit, and he lowered his price. Win/win as you say.

Just expecting tradesmen to lower their prices because they are desperate so that you don't have to budge an inch is different.

Houseful- my words were maybe a little too harsh, and I apologize. But as a GC/carpenter's wife, I get sick of hearing about how contractors are always out to fleece their customers (you see a lot of posts like that here).

I just don't think people always understand that rarely are these guys (and gals) getting rich. They have expenses to cover as well - workers' comp (which seems to always be going up), other insurance, rising wages of their helpers, and equipments costs.

Not to mention the fact people call at all hours of the day and night, expecting evening and weekend meetings, etc. but don't want to pay anything resembling overtime rates.

I'm just pointing out that if the economy is bad - EVERYONE feels the pinch.

Working together might achieve the same goals, without expecting someone to lower their prices simply because they are desperate.

Also I agree with the others that you shouldn't necessarily expect that. There is a shortage of tradesmen in many areas of North America and people do tend to stay put and improve their homes rather than moving when times are tight.

Also remember, these are skilled, and in many cases, highly trained, craftsmen. Their wages should reflect same.

Our jobs aren't particularly tied to the economy, so fortunately I'm not worried personally. We're not wealthy, just comfortably middle class, and we continue to watch the bottom line so we can remodel as much as possible in our house. So here's my take -

It's not about taking advantage of others. I think everyone we've dealt with has been helpful in the extreme about service, deals, and going out of their way to make us happy. This is really how it should be - it's unfortunate that it takes this kind of economy to give people proper customer service!

Anyway, I see it as doing our part for America. Which right now looks like this:

I put the word "desperate" in quotes because that seems to be the buzz word, yet I don't really think it's the situation is that bad. I decided long before the economy turned down that we were going to make this kitchen happen on a budget.

This may be OT, but expect your contractor to make a reasonable profit no matter what the times are. If he ends up feeling that he can't make any money without cutting corners, he may well cut those corners, or he may well just be reluctant to work on your job -- either way, you end up losing. I know that the word "reasonable" is VERY subjective, and what's reasonable for one contractor in one part of the country is unreasonable for a homeowner in a different part. Also, everyone, please start off treating your contractor with respect. There may be a reason for you to change your mind later -- or there may not. I sue contractors for a living, and 80% of them are decent people who just want to make an honest day's pay for an honest day's work. (Don't get me started on the other 20%.)

And to the DIYers, treat yourself with respect too! :) I truly admire you!

Ours was scaled back from the beginning, just because that's the way we always need to do things. That's why we built our own house in the first place...To meet our family's needs in the most economical way as we could (DIY). That said, I find it no value or long-term savings to give up quality or meeting the reasonable needs of the family for a lesser price tag, with the likely result of having to replace or upgrade later, spending money twice...and when prices will likely be even higher. This is supposed to be our forever house, with materials that will last, hopefully, beyond our need for them. It's not that we didn't allow ourselves any 'luxuries' or unnecessary upgrades (like fir doors over paint grade, and fir cabinet doors over oak), but only those allowed by savings and efforts from other areas.

I think we've done alright, in terms of the housing cost (what we got for the money spent vs buying a preowned home or staying where we were)...But it is the cost of other things, those increasingly expensive daily needs that Malhgold mentioned, that may break our budget and change our whole long-term plans. I can't believe how much we've spent on food this month, and the way our gas bill has more than tripled over the last few years.

We're actually considering doing the opposite of scaling back...moving forward our next remodel (bedroom addition). We both have stable jobs, and this is our "forever" home, so we don't need to consider resale value, or overinvesting in our home. We were planning to do the addition in two years or so, but now we're thinking we could get better pricing if we did it now while the economy is down.

Love this thread! Sometimes when I visit this forum I feel as though I have stepped into a parallel universe where economic worries are secondary to agonizing about countertop materials. I'm not complaining -- it's a nice respite from the real world.

But, to answer the OP's question: YES. I have been dreaming of this kitchen remodel for a solid decade, lurking here for about 5 years. Then, finally, it was within my grasp...we refinanced and took out the money to bump out an exterior wall and make my tiny kitchen larger. But, as the moment drew near, I realized I just couldn't do it. Not just because of the tanking economy, but because of the tanking world. Climate change, peak oil, etc. etc. I realized that I just couldn't spend all this money on my house without doing something to make us less of the problem and more of the solution.

So we're keeping our kitchen's footprint, but replacing the peeling thermofoil cabinets. And $ that would have gone to expand the kitchen we will spend on a solar hot water heater, a super high-efficiency AC unit to replace our ancient energy guzzler, and a woodstove, so we can be warm without fossil fuels. Our electricity comes from coal-fired power plants, and the coal that feeds them comes from my beloved Appalachians, which are being flattened. I know this isn't going to stop because I didn't do my kitchen, but it's a tiny step. Of course, it will also give us some protection from skyrocketing energy prices. And I feel so much better! Thanks for asking...

We found it a great time to remodel. We were our own GC and found that subs were more than willing to work when we wanted them and sometimes at a reduced price or for "cash". It was great to call for bids, have the people out the same day and willing to start the next.

wow, kailleanm. totally uncalled for. why not scold me too? i seem to be "taking advantage" of the builders and subs too. they need work, i need a house. maybe i should "scale back"? why would i do that? even though your comment wasn't aimed at me i'm a bit infuriated. so how does this work, exactly? our GC gave us an inflated estimate back in october. now, magically the entire project has gone down over $350K. do you really think he was concerned with our situation when he gave us that number? scale back ...right. i'm going to take a chill pill now. so no one make any suggestions.

Well, I'm more in the planning/lurking/dreaming stage, making minor improvements while I wait for the day I can entirely re-do the kitchen, so there hasn't been anything real to scale back yet.

Still, this scary economy has had an impact even on that. It was hard enough to keep oil in my ancient boiler this winter and that along with the rising costs of gas and food makes my granite dreams seem REALLY frivolous! Maybe formica isn't so bad after all... I can't help wondering if we'll see a return of 70s recession era styles like formica, vinyl flooring and a return to colored fridges instead of stainless.

Interesting to hear that many tradesman are actually busier as people improve their existing houses rather than trading up - but with equity lines of credit tightening up, I would think that would hurt their business as well. I do wonder if it's necessarily true that you can get work at cheaper prices because of the slump. It would seem to me that if if I were a contractor with three or four jobs a week, I could afford to charge less for them than if I only had one job lined up - I'd have to cover my business and living expenses from that one job instead of three. On the other hand, I guess if you can engage potential contractors in a bidding war, you could get a deal - and maybe a lot of cut corners in order to make the numbers work.

I read this thread earlier and did not have the time to comment.

I must say I was shocked by what was said here. kailleanm-- I'm glad you apologized- you needed to. I do commend you on doing so. I know this subject is a personal one for you, BUT it is personal to all of us. I know this is your husband's profession, but if you think about it from our perspective- we are working and struggling to pay highly inflated reno costs. It got to the point of being entirely out of hand. I kept hearing how the "cost of materials" were going up, then seeing how drastically different quotes from people were. RED FLAG. Plenty of people have been padding their pockets-- YES! Getting rich. I've seen it, and it's about time us consumers get a break. To insinuate that any of us are trying to "gyp" our contractors because we can actually afford to get some things done now is unfair. Are we all supposed to offer more money just to be nice? Puh-leeeeez. I should tell you all that I heard of someone from our church that had lost his job. We had intended to call him to do some work for us, and upon hearing that he was out of work- we asked him to come work at our home. He gave us a price, and honestly- it was VERY low. I think it was because he knew that we knew what he charged one of our family members and didn't want us to think he was scamming us. Truth be told, the work he had done was a few years before and we do understand SOME costs have gone up, so we planned to pay him more (but not what others' were charging-- we were giving him cash....). Anyhow, his work was good.... but his work ethic was disgusting. Not showing up when he said he would and not calling. This happened a couple of times, and I finally had enough. My time is worth something too, and I am not going to sit around waiting for someone to get his arse over here. So, we paid him for the work he had completed (not the extra we were going to give him) and my husband completed the rest. So now, I look at things differently. I am going to focus on getting what we need done, for an amount we can afford. Period.

With that said, I refuse to scale back my kitchen reno. Ours will be done in baby steps, but will get done the way we want. I may not have countertops for a while, but I can put plywood down and use a drop in sink until we can afford what we want. I will be doing a lot of online shopping to get the appliances I want, too.

We are not scaling back on our kitchen reno, but I rethought our plans to add a third bathroom (in a 3 bedroom house that has 2.5 already) and we'll wait to redo the musty basement. The insulation will be beefed up and the existing baths must be redone, especially the all pink one! IF the economy rebounds nicely and IF we feel that DH isn't going to be required to move for work, we will add on to enlarge the family room down the road.

As a wife of a very busy contractor,of kitchen's, and baths. we are not rich by any means. The taxes are very high if you have your own co, and if it doesn't go to taxes, the cost to advertise, and pay employee's buy trucks, and the cost of gas. So don't think your contractor, is rolling in money. He's just like everyone else, trying to keep up.

First of all as you can tell by my screen name I am not a contractor. That being said, the last place that I will ever skimp or bargain for is on the professional who will be putting the whole project together. I find it ironic that on this forum there are discussions of using high end materials such as granite, $600.00 faucets, and over the top appliances, yet people are looking to nickel and dime the very person who will make it all function. A $ 600.00 faucet is only as good as the plumber who installed it. Also take into consideration that these people may be working in some homes while the owner is at work all day. So not only does the contractor have to be a master of his/her craft they also have to be trust worthy. How do you put a price on that? If I had to scale down the budget I would rather have a laminate countertop that was installed correctly then a half azz granite installation. Faucets and appliances wear out no matter how much you spend and will have to be replaced. Cabinets that are hung incorrectly or floors that are not level are harder and more costly to replace. So I am putting my money in the hands of the trust worthy craftsman.

The way we're dealing with it is that we're remodeling over the course of a few years. Almost done!!! First we installed temporary lowe's cabinets and had a large utility cabinet. I called it my "deer camp kitchen". Then we installed the island, the next year we installed the base cabinets, the wood flooring, and now we are finishing the rest this summer. We didn't scimp but we sure spread out how we payed for everything! Our biggest mistake was the quartz Cambria island top fiasco. Set us back $1500 but overall we did well with everything else.

Anyone ever hear of supply and demand? When demand goes up, so do prices. That's why I paid top dollar in 2005 for my kitchen remodel. Contractors could charge higher prices and they did. Now that people are feeling the pinch, demand has dropped and contractors can't charge as much. That simple. It's not an issue of morality but rather market forces.

I want to give a BIG shout out to laurieanntko who is making decisions the way I will in my next kitchen. That is an issue of morality, IMO. I too want to be done with halogen lights and other unsustainable choices wherever I can be. It's not easy bein' green, but Laurie, you're taking the high road. Go girl!

I'm not "bargaining". We are talking about how prices have gone down.

I'm thankful that my husband and his family are all very handy. I'll only need to deal with people outside of our family (church family-too)when ordering cabinets and counters. I think the problem I have is trust. It's difficult to believe someone is being honest when quotes differ so much. And I strongly believe that getting a great price doesn't always mean that person is going to do crappy work. Some people give great prices because they WANT the job. My tile guy is really inexpensive. I know I have someone I can count on, and he knows he has work here to earn extra cash when his regular work is slow (since my project is going slooooooooooow).

Like Old1880home, we're not scaling back so much as adjusting our timetable. We're starting a three-phase renovation and because the initial phase budget is increasing more than expected, we know already that the other two phases will be done in the next 2-5 years, instead of the 1-3 which we'd thought about.

Our project might be too early in this economic downturn to see any real savings from materials or labor costs but we have been pleasantly surprised by how quickly some estimates are coming back to us. Our architect is used to making multiple calls to the tradespeople to get quotes and we've had almost immediate responses from our mechanical engineer, plumber and one good carpenter. I'm assuming this reflects their concern that renovations will be slowing down and they need to get their next jobs lined up, instead of cherrypicking from multiple jobs coming in as was the case during the boom in my area.

You know..at this point,we're in so deep that we're just not going to worry abou it LOL We have been at this remodeling goober for so long that I just don't want to compromise on anything to "get it done". If we've made any changes at all it's to scale up a bit by not doing a few of the things I was going to do (like the painting). We also corrected a few things that needed work but weren't in the main scheme originally. I figure if we've been at it for two years...what's a couple more months.

We are actually inversely related to the economy income wise (high oil and gas prices are not something we frown upon...it means more exploration and enviormental work and we do both).

I have seen the prices for my contractors drop a bit. I think they are seeing drops in workload and JUST LIKE US the adjust their prices accordingly to get the work. We have years when we can bid anything and we'll get the contract, and we have years when the penny counts so we bid very tight. Is that screwing my contractors? Not at all. It's what we all do in business and if I get some benefits there, I'm ok with that.

I didn't skimp (or tried not to) on my contractors, but I have seen that the very best out there in my market are more available now at better prices. That's been a nice change. There are FAR too any flakes in the business and seeing them go under in this economy isn't hurting me a bit.

My contractors aren't skrimping by...they can hang with us any day. Currently they're all great folks that we can't wait to have over for the dinner celebration. I know they also live in lovely homes and we shop at the same dealer for work vehicles :) My dealings with them don't change with the market...but their availability to me sure has, and for that...I'm greatful!

Well, we decided to scale back over a year ago when we shelved our plans for a family room/garage/MBR and bath addition. It was going to cost $350K or more and we just didn't think the house/neighborhood warranted that, especially in light of market conditions. We decided, instead, to just remodel the kitchen and even that is being done in a more budget conscious fashion than originally intended. That being said, we are still getting a very nice kitchen and spending what seems like a very substantial sum so I guess "budget minded" is in the eyes of the beholder. Since we have been getting estimates in some form or fashion for 2 years now, I can say I have seen some price decreases and also a more customer friendly attitude among the contractors. Before, it was almost as if they were doing you a favor by deigning to do your job and now most are eager to be accommodating.

Thanks for the positive reinforcement, amysrq!! I had a dark moment of doubt earlier today, as I made my soon-to-be-teenage older son his third breakfast, and thought of the really big pantry I will forgo. But I still think it's the right thing to do...

Well said, iamnodiy.

When we asked our contractor if he's seen a drop in business, he said no. The people here in SW CT who are staying put in their homes are still putting money into them.

I'm not in a big hurry to get thru the remodel and don't plan to scale back. We're mostly DIY and frugal. Actually, I'm hoping to upscale some purchases in anticipation of better pricing in a more competitive climate.

Weighing in on the 'screwing over' and 'nickel & diming' tradespeople comments...I know quite a few tradespeople personally, well enough to know that when they have a bulging schedule & high demand, a lot of them will & do price jobs, pad bids as if they don't need the work (because they don't).

I'm not scaling back due to the economy, but rather the economy has dictated that I do my full plan in a few stages. The original plan was to refinance and use that money to finish everything we had planned in the kitchen. The housing market means we can't 'get' for our house what we need to pull money out. SO.... the granite on my very large island has been replaced with a temporary laminate countertop with no prep sink yet and the beverage wall will wait. I am putting in granite on the perimeter otherwise I can't use my undermount Shaw's sink.

So, I didn't scale back. I had a vision and I'm determined to see it come to life. It will just have to happen more slowly than I planned. Ah, patience..... it stinks!! :-)

We wanted to upgrade the kitchen counters, sink, etc. this year. We will be doing nothing other than painting. DH's job has been hard-hit by the economy.

I am new to this forum, but am in the planning stages of a kitchen remodel, so this topic was of interest to me.

I would like to comment on contractors lowerein their prices and such. This is my take on it.

Someone mentioned having three quotes, but because they felt they could negotiate they ended up getting the more expensive quote with better cabinets, at a reduced price.

This is just my take on it, but if you aren't comparing quotes, apples to apples, cabinets to cabinets, flooring to flooring, granite to granite, you are not comparing like quotes. So not only are you getting a better price, your cabinets are costing the contractor more than those in the other quotes.

To me, as others said, they will have to cut corners somewhere. Even if it is just in the speediness of the finished product or an attitude. An attitude as in, "he is not paying full price, so we will use the cheaper screws"

I am a firm believer in you get what you pay for. Not meaning you need to be gouged, but you need to know you are getting apples for apples..