Funny, I posted a thread on the economy in the Texas forum.

I am not cutting back on my garden spending, but I'm changing direction, and I'm also not the "norm." I have secure retirement savings or at least I think I do, and I work full-time as well. But, I'm one of those people who like to be prepared for the worst...

Until this past year, I only grew ornamental plants. I now have three raised beds for veggies and berries. I've already purchased veggie seeds and two pear trees for the long haul.

I've been expecting this economic downturn for awhile, but when I would talk to friends about it last year, they thought I was worried for no reason.

I'm finding in Austin, where I live, that there are many people who are actually starting to veggie garden to prepare for the worsening economy. As mentioned in my Texas post, I attended a free veggie class where the expected turn-out was supposed to be 50-60 people. Three hundred and twenty people showed up. (I originally estimated 250, but was later given the number by the nursery business sponsoring the class.)

Austin is supposed to be the 3rd most recession-proof city in the nation, but the bad economy is now hitting us too.

Where I work, they just instituted a hiring freeze, and we may not rehire some part-time people once they've finished their contract. Also, developers are not going to build a 1,000 bed Marriot in downtown Austin (which received a lot of media hype) after all because they can't get the construction financing.

Shropshire Lad,
I understand what you wrote much better now. You should always do what you enjoy : ) I know that better than most. I traded lots of seeds and wintersowed for the first time a few years ago when for all I knew at the time I could of been dying, (I'm completely well now!)and I was low on cash being out of work. I had to do it slowly, but I plugged away and did it because I love to garden.
Like I said in my last post, I'm not too worried about things for me personally, but I do worry about others(not obsessively of course, lol.) At first I wasn't too concerned about the mortgage thing. Around here property value never got out of hand. Canada is right next door feeding the local economy so things aren't that bad. Now with the auto industry stuff though, if GM goes belly up, those jobs around here and lots of other jobs by effect will be lost. I believe it would be catastrophic to the economy. Hopefully some kind of bankruptcy plan goes through and GM survives, and if it doesn't I hope I'm so wrong.
Remy

What people need to understand is that economy is truly global these days, so nothing, and I mean *nothing*, of what you do in the US fails to have consequences to the rest of the world. The subprime problem in the US wasn't supposed to have any implications for Europe, right? Wrong! Because the financial system in the US has been on the verge of collapse and European banks borrow money from their American counterparts, if the US sinks, Europe sinks as well. Even China, who has a lot of money of their own, is beginning to feel the problem. Because Westerners are in or at the verge of recession, they buy less. So who is going to buy the millions of tons of cheap goods and other assorted junk that the Chinese produce and that gets sold in European stores? China is now starting to lay off workers, something unthinkable just a few months back.

And don't even get me started on the American auto industry. I've worked for Ford for quite a few years and I know how things work (or not). I have also worked for Volkswagen, so I can tell the difference. Nothing is unrelated these days. Nothing can be taken for granted. Noone is immune. Quite often, the line that divides you from being a middle class person and a homeless is very thin. All it requires is that you loose your job and can't get another - something very easy to happen if you're over 40. You're too old to get a new job and too young to retire.

Retirement pensions in Portugal, as in most European countries, are paid by the state. For you to be elligible you need to work a minimum of 35 years and to be 65 years of age. Both conditions have to be met, otherwise you get penalized. They are now talking about extending the retirement age to 70 or even 75! There's a fundamental contradiction in all this, since we can hardly come by a job after we're 35 years old, yet we're supposed to work until we're 70. Doing what?

Short line is, there is very little we can actually do, other than working ourselves out of debt as soon as possible, cut credit card expenditure as much as possible and live as frugally as we can. Does that mean cutting on some of life's pleasures? Absolutely. But in the end we have to choose. I agree with people saying we only live once and worrying to death every minute of it is sick, so I suppose we need to strike a balance chord of how we enjoy life without placing ourselves in too much risk. Easier said than done.

For my part, and in answer to the original question on the thread, I don't antecipate to cut a lot on my gardening activities, because I'm not spending all that money on it now. The bones of the garden are established, I tend to garden mostly with shrubs and do not spend a whole lot on annuals, so all in all I do not expect to have my gardening pleasure cut off from me in the near future.

Eduarda

Ed, that's it in a nutshell, even before this downturn came my DH was hoping the mill he worked in would keep going until he retired, he lucked out it did so while we're not rich we're comfortable. I think credit card debt is one of the biggies and those that are still working should get these paid up pronto, I'm thinking the worse has yet to come and yes you're right the whole world is being affected.
I can remember when we were starting out, credit was not easy to come by but recently HA! Buy it today, no payments for three years. So many have fallen into this trap.
I can't say we live frugally but it's nice to know we can still cut back without having to worry. A

I placed an ad for a CSR. I received over 300 applications in two days. The economy is bad ... much worse in some states.

My vendors have increased pricing on raw materials by 6%. I will not discuss the gas surcharge I pay on receiving. Renewal for my employees medical/dental insurance increased by 30% this year!

I can not pass these costs to my customers without fear of loosing accounts. This is not what I consider a normal inflation.

I am sick of hearing about "Bail Outs" as well. I strongly believe some of these big business owners and Wall Street executives wanting a "Bail Out" should do prison time. Who would bail me out for mismanaging my business?

Stepping off the soapbox now.

I think Saturday Night Live summed it up best in their "Fix It" skit.

Seth: Now we all know our current economic situation has left every American fearful of whats in store. Oscar, do you see any light at the end of the time?

Oscar: Well, Seth.. There was a light but itÂs broken. And somebody needs to crawl down to the end of that tunnel and fix it!

Seth: OK well that doesnÂt sound very promising.

Oscar: ItÂs not. These people need to FIX IT! IÂve been a financial consultant for 16 years and I have never seen it this out of control. They need to clamp down and FIX IT!

Oscar: And when I wake up tomorrow morning it better be FIXED!

Seth: But how do we go about fixing it specifically?

Oscar: IÂll take it one step at a time... Identify the problem, FIX IT! Identify another problem... FIX IT! Repeat as necessary until itÂs all FIXED!

Seth: Uh... So, so you keep saying fix it but how?

Oscar: FIX IT!

Seth: Fix what?

Oscar: I T ! IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED. NOW! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT!

Yeah, Remy, I hear ya (just as an aside, I am sorry to hear you were sick a few years ago, and am glad you are doing well today! You have amazing roses!). I'm a kid so I don't understand much, but I also have ties to the GM plant. If that place goes under, then it will be a domino effect. I personally care nothing about the well-being of the GM brass, they can continue to live in leisure even if the corporation goes bankrupt -- it is for the sake of the millions of common workers and retirees that I hope the corporation does not take the bankruptcy route. They will be destroyed if GM goes bankrupt. It is the surest way to finish off what is left of that ailing industry. Think of it: Who would buy a car from a company that might fold and leave you without a warranty? Who would invest in a bankrupt automaker's stock? No, there is only a slim chance of GM making a rebound, and that chance lies in a bailout. I know some people cringe at the word "bailout" (myself being one of them), but in this case it is necessary. Don't think of it as bailing out the executives, think of it as bailing out the workers.

Why is it that Washington officials practically throw money at failing Wall Street businesses to save their elite white collar jobs, but gag over the thought of lending the same helping hand to manufacturing and its blue collar workforce?

One way to have fun with this recession: Let's all start Victory Gardens, haha! We'll be the force behind a gardening revolution from coast to coast!

Taking advantage of clearance items in nurseries. Dividing, seed planting, and postponing gardening projects that can wait.

Our Forestry industry is in the tank, logging outfits, saw mills, pulp mills etc. are shutting down right and left up here, many have already lost their jobs and they can't find work anywhere. A few trades are still safe but they have to uproot everything and move to find work. If GM is bailed out, why not the Forest Industry? And, if they're bailed out, who's next in line? These are terrible times and bailouts to me are like trying to put a bandaid on a gushing artery. Where does the money come from to bail everybody out? Nobody is working paying taxes? I don't know if bailouts are the way to go, seems like throwing money into a pit that has no bottom.
Living on credit is one of the big culprits, digging oneself deeper and deeper in debt has become a way of life for too many. I can't speak for all but up here instant gratification seems to be the name of the game.
The mill my DH retired from went under, the workers themselves, plus the union and a few backers bought it back. It's up and running again with about 200 workers, when my husband first went to work there in 65 the mill employed about 1500. My hat is off to them and I've got my fingers crossed they can make a go of it. We are lucky our company pension is secure (so far) but we did lose the medical benefits that were paid in our behalf. I really don't know what the answer is but I do think everyone should tighten their belts for a very long haul and yes, all kidding aside, those of us that can should start growing more of our own fruits and veggies.

Annette

The bailout will not help the blue collar workers, only the greedy executives.

I have a question. If we bail out the auto industry and let's say they are able to create new & improved gas-saving vehicles, who will buy them? If all of the other industries are laying off and people can't pay their mortgages, who will buy these cars? I keep hearing on NPR that there are foreign vehicles piling up on the piers with no place to go because the foreign car dealerships aren't selling their cars either.

I too want to save the little guy so even if I hate the idea of a bail out, if it helps the little guy, then I will bite the bullet.--Of course, I'm not really sure I have a "say" in this one way or the other actually.

Thanks for posting this thread, by the way. Many of your comments/insights are very interesting to me.

A bailout for the auto industry is by no means a panacea, but it may be able to keep a bad situation from getting if it saves millions of Americans from financial ruin. If such a big industry goes under, then all of the smaller ones are doomed as well regardless of what they manufacture because everything is linked. Think of the Big 3 as the green matter at the bottom of the food chain. If they disappear, it is only a matter of time before the rest of the chain starves. Of course, there is no guarantee that a bailout will save anyone. It is a matter of chance, of possibility. I happen to believe that taking some form action in good faith is preferable to taking no action. As I said before, bailing them out will NOT save everyone...but if it saves a significant amount, then it will all be well worth it.

Annette - at least you & I get medicare, if not the prescription coverage. So many of our southern friends don't have that....so why is Canada slightly better off??

"Living next to you(the US) is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt. "
Addressing the Press Club in Washington, D.C. (25 March 1969), Pierre Elliott Trudeau, 15th Prime Minister of Canada.

'I placed an ad for a CSR.' - Edna - not sure what this is....

I want to share this, even though I am not knowledgeable
about economics, I had a great lunch with a friend who does know....she was listening to a right wing radio show(in Canada), about the whole mess. A woman called in and said, but were did it go - meaning all the money - where did it go?? And the expert didn't have an answer, so....my friend said, here is where it went:

Picture an island: it has it's own rules and does not deal with anyone offshore. This is the Canadian banking system, and the island next to it, which is similar, is the American banking system. Off shore, Jack Sparrow and his ilk circle, with the swords drawn. They want some that money, but they are never invited in to the party. They really want to come to the party. Really, really, really. So, they find a risk taker within the circle, who will take a side bet. And another, and another. It becomes common. Not kosher, but common. The bets are against the house - against the money going down. And that's what happened. And the short bets were called. And all that money????? The pirates got it.

We are in the arms of the pirates.

Nancy.

My husband and I are teachers, so we aren't in serious danger of losing our jobs unless things get REALLY bad. I think that healthcare and education are pretty safe, from what I've been hearing. It's terrible what is going on. My father owns a construction business and this recession is worse than the early 80's for him.

To answer your question: Yes, I am cutting back, just in case, but not very much. I'm looking longer and harder for deals.

We live on Canadaian, UK and union pensions.

I won't be cutting back on gardening because I spend very little on it already.

Libby

Gottagarden, I hope it isn't hijacking this thread to ask you another question...

I think I remember a post from you earlier this year saying that you seemed to have lost some of your gardening enthusiasm. I've looked and looked but can't find it. I remember being alarmed at the time because you are apparently an incredibly gifted gardener whose loss would be awful. But the reason I wanted to find your earlier post now was to see if you explained how you regained that enthusiasm. (I assume it has returned because I'm seeing your comments here again.)

You see, since that time I have also lost my gardening "groove". It was the ONLY really joyful thing in my life, not to mention my only exercise and positive interest. I want to get back to the old gardening thrill but how?

Part of the problem is certainly related to the economy. Yes, I have had to cut back. I usually plant several flats of pansies and violas in fall for color that lasts all winter. This year I priced the flats and ended up buying 3 six packs of very ordinary looking pansies so my front porch bed wouldn't be completely bare. I usually am in the middle of wintersowing by this time of year. Now...none planned. I can't make myself spend $14 for a bag of soil when milk is $4 a gallon. I know that will mean nothing to plant in spring but it's like my engine is stalled.

I don't think economics is the only problem causing this for me but it is involved in ways beyond the price of plants. My daughter was laid off last January and has not yet found a job. This year she has lost her apartment and her credit rating is frightful. She also lost her insurance and has had health problems I don't know how we will pay for. She has had to move back in with me and that is causing a financial strain as well as tension between my husband and me.

My son also was laid off but has managed to find another job, thank God! Still, the worry about that didn't do my nerves a bit of good.

My own job has changed a bit, too. Because our company has had less work coming in and because so many of our customers are failing to pay for our work, we employees are having to take unpaid time off. That means my not very large paycheck is even smaller. My insurance has become far more expensive but coverage has been cut back and deductibles raised to the point that I can no longer afford even routine health care. At my age, with a chronic illness, that is a big worry. I have to try to stay healthy because there is no way I can ever afford to retire.

I could go on but I guess you get the picture. The economy and its multitude of effects has me very worried and discouraged. And at a time when I need the "therapy" of gardening most, I find myself without the heart to do it. I'd love suggestions if anyone has any.

My dear friend, Etta Katherine, had a saying 20 years ago: "Middle age didn't turn out the way we thought it would."

Many of our friends worked not only for extras and trinkets, but to assure the family would have health insurance because the husband was self-employed. Some of us were among those whose primary breadwinner lost a job of many years' standing. My schoolteacher friend worked past her expected retirement date because "our investments lost...."

Those of us who have expected and endured strikes, layoffs, downturns, recessions, losses, and unexpected events have been preparing for hard times for almost 50 years. What's the old saw about the 3 P's?

On the other hand, my mother, who was a widow at 52, always said you needed food for the soul as well as the body as she tucked a little pot of philodendron in her grocery cart, or ordered off for a handful of bulbs. Maybe our budgets need paring, but our outlook needs to remain hopeful as we proceed with caution.

Nell

Linda, there are so many things in our lives we have no control over, I have learned over the the years to fix what can be fixed and what can't to let it go. So many like yourself are going through some very tough sledding right now and I know it's so very hard to think positive but do try to keep thinking the glass is still half full.
My garden has always been a great healer for me, especially digging and pulling weeds when something has me in a frump. There is always something you can do in the garden, just being out in the fresh air doing late winter cleanup has actually lifted my spirits when I was feeling down and things hadn't been going right, if nothing else it got rid of the tension and I felt relaxed, or was it I was just stiff and sore enough it took my mind off other things :o). I know it's hard when you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, but one day you will and in the meantime think of your garden as a very close friend always there to give you a big hug when you need one.

Annette

I second Annette's sentiments. It is so difficult right now, when the news is focused on the economy and everyone is worried, to focus on the positive. And as soon as you feel bad, you just want to hide away rather than do the things that make you feel better.

But you have to try to have fun and enjoy life no matter what. Call up friends and family, read a great book, garden, whatever it takes. Maybe you could enlist your daughter's help in getting you started gardening again.

Having been on the other side of the "moving back in" situation once, I know that it is quite difficult. Change is hard, and navigating the "new rules" of the relationship can be tricky. Maybe it would help if you and your daughter sat down and developed a plan or some guidelines. It doesn't sound like the right time for a 2-on-1 conversation, especially if your husband is upset.

Thank you all, so much. I know my post was a bit whiny and I'm sorry about that. But thank you so much for troubling to post back - it really means a lot!

How I would love for my girl to garden with me! She is so very withdrawn and hard to reach now, though. I understand...sort of. But I have no idea how to pull her out of it.

Tomorrow I will plant out my porch hanging baskets, which I think may have seeds dropped from some especially pretty petunias. They can go into the back flowerbed undisturbed so that if there are seeds in there they can come up in spring. I often have volunteers. I'd love to see those petunias again. They were the multicolored pink and yellow ones. Unique! Each flower different from the others.

I don't really WANT to get up and dress warmly and dig but I'm going to just make myself. Because I know how gardening has helped me in the past. It used to be so good to get dirty and tired and see progress and change. I can't see all the way to the reward right now so I'm going to just trust that it will still be there.

And it needs doing.

Maybe I'll pull up a few dead annuals while I'm out there.

"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans. "
John Lennon

Linda - my Mum came and lived with me when she was 80. Dad had been dead for about 3 years, and she was very lonely, and lived a 6 hours drive away from me. It was tough!!! I know that you are in the revervse of this, but maybe we can shed some light on this for you. Now, briefly in my 20's, I did move back home, into my grandma's granny shack. The term actually didn't exist them, but that's what is was!!! Mum and I weren't a house on fire, as far as a relationship. When she moved in it was double tough. At the time, I worked face to face, and on the phone with people all day. Mum sat all day, waiting for me to come home to talk to.....Acckkk. Not a great recipe. She wanted a job, or a role in the household. I bought a whack of frozen family meals, that she could put in the oven and thaw and bake. It sort of gave her a role, and in truth, she was a terrible cook. She would have them ready the instant I got home, as she would have with Dad. I tried to slow her down, as I rather liked a cocktail, and to defuse when I got home. She never got that. As a child, our family evenings were in front of the TV - yep, child of the 50's. I put a large screen TV in the living room, and of course we both had TV's in our bedrooms.....but, evenings tended to be communal TV watching. Except that Mum would talk to me, non-stop. I tactfully asked if we could chat in commercials....she was hurt. So, doing the reverse...hmmmm. Perhaps, by doing your thing, and talking about what you are doing, in a very light unobtrusive way,she may express an interest.
You could ask her for help with the seedlings, but if you mention the cost, she could become defensive, as she propabaly feels she is a burden already.

Not sure if this helpful....mothers and daughters are tricky - giving her a chance to volunteer, OR, having a chance to be useful, might really help with her self esteem.

Nancy.

linda, I am so sorry you are going through this difficulty.

I hope you will try to not deny yourself the pleasure and therapy of gardening. I know the cost of potting soil seems high, but maybe if you just set aside a couple of dollars a week until you can get the bag, it won't seem like such a big item to you. I know it sounds simple, but sometimes we don't miss a small amount like that.

To make it pay for itself, plant some veggie seeds too. The rewards with far outway the costs.

As for not have the enthusiasm for gardening, sometimes I find that inactivity breeds inactivity. Once I get started, all thoughts but what I am doing leave my head and I can spend hours working outside.

You have a real reason for feeling "down" with what you have going on. Don't beat yourself up over it. I worry about your daughter being so withdrawn too. Maybe she will get more enthused when she sees you gardening.

Please know that you have receptive ears here and share anytime you need to!

Another tip: I have quit listening to the news.....it does none of us any good to keep hearing how bad times are repeated over and over ad nauseum.

Hi Linda, everyone here is giving you good advice. I think all the stresses in your life are causing your inactivity. Given that it's winter, it's a good time to just leave it all alone and don't feel guilty about it. You've got enough to do! In the spring hopefully things will be better with your daughter, and I'm sure that scent of spring in the air will get you out in the garden. For now, try to do some nice things for yourself, instead of everyone else in your life.

I did have a post that this summer I took a huge gardening break, did almost nothing, felt guilty about it. I just needed time to do other things, very unlike me. It also turns out I had a big thyroid problem that I was unaware of. After several months of adjusting medicine, I now have my energy and enthusiasm back. Simply amazing.

Right now the holidays are occupying my time, and I haven't had much time for garden thoughts.

I'm sure the whole garden industry is really being hit hard by this recession, as gardengal mentioned earlier. Unfortunately, most garden purchases are not "needed". My gardens are already nice and I don't "need" anything. But I always enjoy trying a few new perennials, a few new trees, some fancy bulbs. It's a luxury and the way I indulge to pamper myself. (others may buy jewelry or clothes or go out)

But since DH is self-employed, we do not have employer provided pensions or health care. So we have been slowly, responsibly over the years saving for our retirement. Now that account has almost halved so I will pamper myself with a hot bath instead of fancy bulbs. When I think of this being multiplied by so many gardeners, I know the garden industry must really be hurting. I've decided to save my garden purchases this year for our local garden shop, and cut out the mail order. Still, I'm not trying to complain too much because I know we are doing fine and others are much less fortunate. I plan to divide and give away lots of really choice plants this year, to spread some garden happiness. (My gorgeous peonies are too crowded, as is everything else.)

Linda, I am so sorry for your troubles. The best advice I can give you is to watch your spending, but don't deprive yourself too much. I find that consistent self-deprivation only makes hard times even more intolerable. Go get that bag of soil...$14 won't break the bank. You need some happiness, and if it comes in the form of one $14 bag of soil, then I say that is $14 well spent. Never let guilt steer you away from making a small, sensible purchase when happiness is on the line. You'll find less stress and more joy that way -- you'll see how a simple bag of soil can present you with a pleasant distraction from the economic doldrums you are experiencing through the opportunity to garden!

Gldno1, I couldn't agree with you more! Turn off the news everyone! It does us no good to hear the same depressing information over and over again.

I am truly enjoying this thread, and will need to read it thru a few times more to get the full impact, but on the surface, it seems this topic is bringing out the personal side of gardeners .... and I'm grateful for the knowledge and background on so many familiar names.

I posted above about loyalty to local garden centers and loyalty to my 'garden elves' and I meant every word. While I can't singlehandedly save them all, I'll try to the best of my ability.

But, beyond that - the personal info here is so heartwrenching and heartwarming at the same time. Last year at this exact time, I was very sick and honestly didn't know if I'd be here this year. There's nothing worse than uncertainty ..... but, knowing others are sailing the same ship helps. I did get thru the illness, at least for now, and then, like others, got hit by the financial fallout.

So, I am broker (what the medical bills didn't claim the markets did) .... but I am determined to keep my gardens, my pup and my birds up and running. Gardens can self maintain to a point and additions will be done guardedly and cost effectively. Pup is the light of my life 24/7 and her needs are not open to compromise. As for the birds, I think I'm feeding the entire avian population of North Raleigh, as well as dozens of squirrels who have me on their 'fine dining' GPS screens. Bird seed/feed is a costly line item in my budget that probably isn't going to change - they bring such life to my yards day in and day out year round. I could save much money by pulling down some feeders, but I just won't do that. Will just keep that credit card nimble w/seed purchases!

Like I said before, I do need to go back and re-read this whole thread for specifics, but even without doing so quite yet, relying on foggy memory, I fully appreciate and share many of the life problems cited here. Love to you all!

I'm still gardening. It costs me stamps and envelopes. I get free leaf mulch and compost from the landfill. I bought soil today for wintersowing, but that will be the last money I spend for a while. I'm self employed and have been for 4 years. I'm now looking for a job to supplement whatever income I can scrape up. Many of my neighbors are complaining about how expensive their yard care has gotten while the quality suffers. And then they look across the fence at my yard. I'm thinking of turning this into a positive, at least for me.

Oh, you guys, you have given me such comfort. I, too, had a weirdly non-garden-oriented summer and fall (car accident, death in the family, etc), and it will be interesting to see what survived the lack of water and attention. I felt so guilty and yet so uninterested at the same time--what a strange combination.

The good news is that the survivors will be very drought tolerant! When I spend money this spring, it will be on buying more of them--anything that can survive that much inattention is worth its weight in gold, right?

One thing (OK, many things, but this in particular) caught my eye, and that is the cost of soil. US$14.00 for how much?? I really need to know.....I filled the 5' x 6' box of my pickup with CA$60.00 worth of garden soil......
If I buy 30L bag of triple mix, it usually costs me about CA$7.00 or so. Not sure what you are buying, or if you were just throwing a number out there. See if there is someone you can share a load of soil with, or - gather a few of those large buckets that restaurants end up with - maybe 1 or 2 will fit in your trunk, with the lid open??? The soil/rock place may give you a deal. Zone 8, you're not near to freezing, so this may be a good thing. You know, you might just luck out. Not for the prepackaged bags, go for the pile of earth that they have in the yard. They've already bought that, and might be willing to negotiate, like I said, if you have pails - with lining in your trunk, like garbage bags. This gives you lots of soil, yeah, you can amend for potting soil. You are already trading seeds - bob's your uncle!!!

Nancy.

xantippe, I've been where you are right now. My hubby died a long drawn-out death (16 mo.) We experienced a drought during that time and my soil, if you can call it that, doesn't normally hold moisture to boot. I longed to water our plants but literally couldn't leave the house because my hubby was not in his right mind any more. Once he passed, I lost my interest in gardening for a whole year but like you, I felt guilty. That year we also experienced a summer of record-breaking rain so the plants that didn't die of thirst then were given the opportunity to die by drowning. I didn't water, fertilize, or weed even once for over two years.

This spring, the gardening instinct returned. I fertilized, mulched, pulled weeds, and regrouped. There were plants that didn't make it, but you are absolutely right that the ones which survive are the very best to grow.

Funny, some of the plants I thought were the tougest were gone and some I thought would be toast were still there. The nicest thing about it all was discovering plants (while weeding) that I'd completely forgotten I'd even planted.

"I am determined to keep my gardens, my pup and my birds up and running. Gardens can self maintain``
Hey, Zigzag, I think we are kindred spirits. I was not healthy last year, but am now OK (yeah, sort of). I have 4 cats as dependents, plus a flock of bluejays, a coven of wild turkeys, way too many chickadees, juncos, goldfinch, siskins, mourning doves, 3 kinds of woodpeckers, on and on. My soul needs to have these kinds of things. Since the post below, I have had cardinals, mourning doves, etc.

Don't forget, when buying soil, Lowes will often mark "broken" bags 1/2 off or more. You just need to ask an associate if they do it at your store. Bring plastic to line the trunk of your car.

Nancy, I want to address the soil prices. First when you are starting seeds, especially indoors, you should use a soilless mix. Here you have the choice of sunshine mix or promix. A bale of this soilless mix runs from $30 to $40...plus tax. A small bag of soilless mix runs from $10 to $20...and does not go very far. If you use garden soil or compost which is cheaper......you will have problems with dampening off and be less successful with your seedlings.

When sowing outdoors you can use regular garden dirt or compost without having many problems. The soil you choose to buy will depend on how/what you are planting and where.

Sierra

Sierra - fair point, I was not thinking about the seed starter mix. I do sometimes use regular potting soil to start seeds. I no longer use the peat pellets - to hard to keep moist, and I find the seedlings often can't get roots through the net. I do use 'No Damp' often, to keep any soil mold at bay.

Nancy.

Hi Nancy, I think I am taking this thread way off topic here...but purrhaps bringing a happy note to it.

I bought 'no damp' once. It is stinky stuff and made my nose run....I think the bottle is still sitting in the cupboard but not sure. What I use and it smells so much nicer is cinnamon.......I sprinkle on the top of the soilless mix and it smells like I just baked apple pie. No harsh chemicals and I feel better for using it. If there is problems with dampening off, a small fan can be used also to make more air flow.

I am gearing up for the seed starting already. The first bale of soilless mix has been bought. 2 seed and supply orders have arrived....still waiting for the 3rd to arrive.

Its almost time to start washing those seedling pots, cell paks and trays.

I am very sorry to hear so many people are having so many troubles. This is really terrible!

Maybe someone should start a seed starting thread or seed starting tips...it might be helpful for some first time seed starters. Starting seeds and watching those little seedlings pop up can bring such joy to your lives when you really need it....a great distraction.

Sierra

Midnightsmum, I was referring to a particular mix I used to get from a nice nurseryman in the next town. It's specifically for starting seeds and always worked very well. The $14 price is what I paid last year (it may have gone up like so much else) and was for a large bag that I'd guess is at least 40 pounds.

I'm so sorry about the passing of dear ones that some of you have gone through recently. That certainly gives me perspective on my money/job/parenting worries. And it's very encouraging to read that gardening helped to comfort and heal you. I will certainly make a big effort not to lose it completely!

Remember too, cottage gardens began way back when as a way to have flowers, veggies, herbs, etc. Most of these gardens were created by trading, bartering, and collecting. That's why I love the exchange forums here.

I have cut back a lot the past year, (no big projects, remodelling or buying trips,) and this has somehow allowed me to keep a reserve for anything gardening related. This usually amounts to potting soil. I have raised and saved seed for many years and never throw out the leaves or grass clippings which enables me to have free compost. I try to watch what I spend, but hey I'm human and sometimes I do succumb to that totally whimsical item that I "so desparately need"! I agree with previous posters who warn about the negative news coverage.. Turn it off and thumb through some of those lucsious gardening catalogs.

Linda Kimy - $14 for 40lbs is is really good - go for it.

Sierra , yeah, the no damp smells crappy, but I have never found an alternative for it. Cinnamon you say...must try.

So, we must have a better way to start seeds...old school?? Chime in!!

Nancy.

I read to use chamomile tea for watering new seedlings.
I brewed some using little chamomile tea bags I bought at the dollar store.
I didn't have damp off. Was it the tea, or would I not have had it anyhow?

Nell

I also make a combination of chamomile and peppermint tea. The peppermint tea also stops the little flyeeeee bugs.

Just don't let this tea mixture sit around for more than a couple of weeks....it can get pretty smelly in the bottle too.

Sierra

Since 99% of the flowers in my garden were started by seed (either purchased or traded for) I probably won't be cutting back much. Since I grow flowers for their beauty and not their "names" I don't mind if they don't come completely true to the parent plant. My dahlias and roses (grown from seed) would probably be considered as "mongrels" by people who grow those plants to show. As long as I enjoy them that is all that matters. Even when the economy was good I wouldn't have been able to buy the 200+ plants I put out last year.

But I do feel for all of those who are struggling with the economy what it is today. It is heartwrenching to see people who have worked most of their years at a good job lose it. Not sure what the answer is. But it would probably do the whole nation good to go back to living the way our parents and grandparents and great grandparents did.

Well, like GG, I am affected more by people not starting projects than directly by the stock market, etc. We have a few big things that are pending - I just hope they come through.

Fortunately, most of my 2009 plans are either for the fruit & veggie garden, or are big items that we can do or not depending on our income (shed and fence). Most of my flower garden plans are to rearrange or divide things I already have, so no cost there. Through re-organizing, I have pretty much made it so I only have space for one rose, for instance, so the plan is to wait until we do the fence and I can add more roses along the fence. So, I'll put annuals in the open spot waiting for the rose...

Probably the biggest question will be whether or not we do the apple and peach trees we've been discussing...

Boy, Irene, that made me sit up straight!!! I've starting putting the bones in,you always want more: proudgm, you are the 'leading edge' . You are ahead of the curve!!
Nancy.

This is a great thread. I will actually spend more this year than most. I'm finally investing in some lights and a shelf system as well as seeds and starting materials. I've improvised in the past, but I'm looking forward to a set-up that will be conducive to more starts (every year)and just make it easier on myself. I rarely buy annuals, I can't justify the expense, so I'm going to grow my own this year and I'm really looking forward to that.

For the first time, I'm going to have some soil amendment dumped in my driveway so that I can imporve my planting beds for my edibles. It will be the first time I've done this in 20 years of gardening! I just don't have enough home made compost for the job. I'll also add some more drip irrigation in an effort to conserve water (and automatically water)!

The garden is our little luxury...our little world away from everything. Things like seeing my husband's face when he shows me all the beans he picked or watching him and the dog grazing the blueberries is simply priceless.

evie, you will love the light set up. I have had mine for several years now and use it all year long for something.

I love that it doesn't cost anything extra for heating....it's on the back porch (part of house and enclosed)and uses the house heating system. I also use the top of the lights as a warm spot to start those requiring bottom heat.

I can grow 12 flats with mine, more when I can move something outside into a protected area.

gldno1 z6MO,

I can barely wait to get going! And yes, I have visions of always having something going! You know how dogs wiggle when you make them sit when they are excited? That's me right now! Can't wait to see the first little seedings!

I started some zinnias and salvia coccinea in the basement this weekend. I already have zinnia sprouts and a couple of "Cherry Brandy" Rudbeckia have sprouted as well. Still waiting on the geraniums and salvia. I started a datura inoxia two days before Christmas. It's got 6 leaves now.

I can't wait to grow all this stuff from seed. Though I am wintersowing a lot more than I'll be starting indoors.

Wintersowing is the bomb! I have to thank wintersowing for most of my garden - so many plants were started that way. But it does take time. Some of them require a couple of years to reach bloom. That's o.k.

I am hoping for some nice surprises this spring. Sweet Williams...more flax...candytuft!

Wintersowing worked really well for me. I hope you will have great success with it too.

Sierra - quick question - "I also make a combination of chamomile and peppermint tea. The peppermint tea also stops the little flyeeeee bugs. Just don't let this tea mixture sit around for more than a couple of weeks....it can get pretty smelly in the bottle too."

So you don't water with this potion, you mist????

Nancy.

For me it's not so much the economy causing me to cut back on garden spending. Instead its my wife's comfort level and other priorities. She's an accountant and doesn't have much interest in our yard and garden so long as it looks neat and tidy and maintained.

The first year and a half we were in our house we spent a decent chunk on the yard, probably ~$2.5k:

- building a rubble garden wall (material free, but took me some time)
- planting a bunch of trees (free from my aunt's woods)
- ripping out 1/2 my front lawn, planting a garden
- replacing 7000 sf of grass lawn with an eco-lawn mix
- putting in a drip irrigation system

Since then it's mostly been letting things grow. Last year I added several new perennials between the shrubs. Spending probably dropped to a few hundred dollars. Again it was mostly just letting things grow.

This year garden spending will be virtually nil. Instead I'll be building a new yard shed. Between the concrete foundation, walls, siding, doors, roof, etc. it's going to be a semi-major project and soak up our budgeted resources for home-improvement stuff.

What i'll be doing garden-wise instead will be the winter sowing project. I collected a whole bunch of seeds this fall and have purchased maybe a couple packets of seeds commercially. I'm now starting to get the potting soil and do the winter sowing seed planting.

I'm estimating my gardening costs for this year will be around $50. After that it'll be a year-by-year basis depending on what the yard needs. I was pretty antsy when we moved in to get plants in the ground and get them growing. Now and over the next several years it'll mostly be a matter of just letting them grow. That and maybe moving plants from one location in my yard to the other as adjustments are needed.