I didn't realize thrips were so finicky and particular about the roses they like. It must have something to do with a specific chemical or micronutrient in the rose that they prefer over others? Just totally guessing its some chemical associated with certain fragrances since they like certain fragrant roses. I guess I will be making lists soon too on which ones they like here.

There are plenty of fragrant roses thrips don't bother, such as Brother Cadfael, which I think smells a lot like Evelyn, and she grows just a few feet away from BC. Thrips likes and dislikes are very puzzling to me with a degree in zoology (means nothing--should have gotten one in entomology). And, yes, Captain Jack's contains spinosad. The Cap'n should go back to being a pirate where he was more successful. I'm sorry to read of your horrible grub ordeal. You did all that was humanly possible to get rid of them. I empathize with the squishing. We had a terrible infestation of black blister beetles a few years ago. They adore yellow flowers, but don't seem to bother roses--thank heaven. Anyway, I put on my "gloves of death" and squished probably thousands of those suckers, each with a satisfying pop. The next year, I had maybe a dozen or two of those things return. They haven't been a problem since the squish in. Sometimes it works, but it took me about two weeks--every evening, and any time I was out in the garden and saw them. Diane

The UC IPM says "When the weather is warm, the life cycle from egg to adult may be completed in as short a time as 2 weeks." So, I'm assuming that's when I need to prepare for the most damage. Does anyone know what constitutes "warm" weather? When weather is consistently above 60F? 70F? 80F? "Warm" is so ambiguous.

I'm just trying to figure out when I need to try my first defense and when I should plan to put out blue gloves/cups coated in oil.

I think knowing the degrees may be more helpful than knowing the season since our CA seasons are widely different. But, I'm new to thrips and have no idea if the question I'm asking even makes sense. Hopefully someone out there can understand what I'm asking even if I fumble around the question.

I think you need your defenses in place before the buds begin to form. Maybe when the rose just starts to leaf out. I've never quite figured out the timing, but don't wait until there are buds, even tiny ones. Do you know when that would be? Here, it would be some time in late March-Early April. I'm always so busy with pruning, I forget about the darn thrips. I have those blue cups I've never used; now, I suppose I should buy the gloves. Or, I may go nuclear. I haven't decided yet. Their favorite rose is by far Frederic Mistral, and the thrips season can go on until August for the poor thing. I wait and wait for nice, unblemished blooms and it takes forever. That's the main reason I have fewer photos of Fred. Where are the Californians around here? Diane

Well, I hate to tell you this Cori Ann, but thrips have been in good ol' CA for a loooong time!! Maybe not the "chili" thrips, but the plain old rose-ruining ones have been on mine for over 20yrs. I don't spray. Do not have the time! I should tho, because they do make the roses look like "you-know-what!" Especially the white, and pale colors. MOONSTONE comes to mind first. It's usually late in the summer when it's waaay hot before the thrips stop ruining that rose. Ugh.

So, are those grub worms coming up out of the soil? I only ever see an occasional one, but that's only when I'm digging a big hole to plant a rose in. They're usually like deeper than 18" down. Dang, my chickies would go nuts over a big pile of those guys. I wish I could release them into the yard to eat bugs. But, unfortunately, the dog would eat them or they'd get out into the road. I wonder if chickens can find thrips? Hmmm...

Beth I wish I had a friend with chickens who could have come over to eat the grubs. They're pretty much gone now. But when they were here, they were not coming out of the ground... They seemed to be 1 to 3 inches in the soil, but they were everywhere at that level. About 100 a square foot in certain areas. The soil came alive just an inch down. They were eating the roots of my flowers, especially certain ones.

I haven't had damage from thrips here yet, but I also had way less roses in the past.

When do you notice the damage Beth? People seem to say spring, but I'm trying to figure out the temperature that actually correlates to... since seasons are so different in different areas.

Great topic and questions, Cori Ann!! I have seen damage here from some type of thrip... I think....(still not sure)

The suspected damage I have seen usually occurs or peaks here during the Summer. South Africa (on my shovel prune list), a bright yellow rose, seems to be affected more than anything in my garden. Beyond that, it seems to be hit and miss and at the moment, I kind of ignore the damage. My garden is beginning to mature, and thus my expectations are being raised relative to performance. My plan is to try the blue cups near my white roses and the ones that seem to get nibbled on.

I had a grub issue too, one that I am fairly sure came from a soil amendment purchased online.

Good luck finding information regarding those little things...

Ack! If I had that many of those little creepy buggers swarming around my roses that close to the surface, I would let a few of the chickies loose and stay with them til they ate 'em all! Yuck! As for the thrips... I get them a lot in spring and even summer too. Maybe just not quite as bad once it starts to get closer to the triple digits. But yeah... pretty much most of the growing season, unfortunately. Doesn't seem to matter if we had a cold winter or not either. But hey! This has been a particularly cold one, so I'll hafta take note this spring and see if they are better or worse this time around! Gonna be an interesting yr I think!

That is really helpful Diane. Before buds form. That's even more helpful than a degree range and makes perfect sense. We usually have buds forming year round on some bushes here in CA, but I will take your advice and plan it out for before the big flushes. No worries about where the Californian's are. We have some time. And they're usually super active on here so I know they will chime in. :)

I've had chili thirps here in inland SoCal for 3 years now... they seem to love my double delight, and Grande Dame rose which are in containers on my patio. Not much damage this year out in the yard. I've tried Cap n Jacks too without success. I think because you have to keep up with the spraying and switching between chemicals.. it became a pain and costly with the amount of roses I do have. I've seen a post about adding predatory mites, at least that's what the Huntington Library Rose Master Gardner was doing.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/4089041/huntington-rose-garden-battling-chilli-trips-with-predatory-mites

That's interesting Diane. My thrips have a different appetite to yours. My Brother Cadfael is a real thrips magnet! Fragrant roses in my garden that thrips ignore include Perfume Delight, MIP, and Papa Meilland.

People say that thrips only go after light colored roses, but I think the damage is just more visible on those roses. I've had thrips on dark red roses like Mr. Lincoln. They loved my Mlle Franziska Kruger before it died in the polar vortex, and Duchess de Brabant. And since I now have a bunch of nice white HTs, they love them too. I do spray, I use orthene a few times a year. I only mist unopened buds. It has made a huge difference, I can actually get a decent flush on DdB in the warm weather. I also remove any spent blooms that have thrip damage or visible thrips and put them in a sealed plastic bag and throw it in the garbage. I think this helps control the population. So far, I only have regular thrips, no chili thrips (knock on wood!).

I have a lot of the roses you all mention the thrips like. I really do seem to have the same taste as thrips. :/

I'm thinking I may be proactive this winter/spring and actually apply predator nematodes again. They are supposedly successful at controlling all sorts of soil pests (thrips too)... and after all this glorious rain recently I think they should penetrate the soil and work better than my last try with predator nematodes for grubs. http://www.naturescontrol.com/thrip.html#tpm

Im also thinking of trying Pro-tekt. It's silicon nutrition that supposedly helps the plant cells become stronger to increase resistance to "sucking pests" (also to powdery mildew and fungal issues). http://florawww.eeb.uconn.edu/msds/Pro-Tekt_DataSheet.pdf

The predator mites Haku mentions are suppedly best in greenhouses or humid environments.

The nematodes and Pro-tekt may be a good preventative way to start though. Especially since they both have other benefits too... and can be applied to my citrus trees, berry bushes and veggies as well.

Now is the time for beneficial nematodes against thrips, fleas, and ticks - at least in Texas it is. These critters spend the winter in the soil where the nematodes work. I have used the beneficial nematodes from this site in Colorado. You rinse them out of a sponge into water then spray the water. Follow that up with a full inch of water because nematodes cannot move in dry soil.

Thanks dchall! I will try them again. I used Natures Control in the past since they're on the west coast, but the application seems the same. I think I will wait maybe a week before ordering... until we get a little more rain so it penetrates down at least 3-6 inches. We haven't gotten as much rain here as many other areas in CA yet. When I last tried them it wasn't the right time of year here because of the drought and heat. I think at that time (fall), it was impossible to water them in properly without some rain. Thank you!

Hi Cori,

When you say Thrips, are you meaning Chili Thrips?

I wonder how to determine the difference between a Chili Thrip or some other thrip, or are C.T. only in certain areas like that dreaded Japanese Beetle???

We do not have issues with fleas or ticks...wishful thinking with thrips...???

i forgot to mention, the Sevin did a good job eradicating the grubs...the only organic method of control that I read about that works is Milky Spore.

Sevin might work on grubs, but I doubt it would do anything to thrips. You have to make contact with the pest for sevin's effectiveness. Plus it's not a systemic. In other words, sevin would be applied to the blooms themselves, and it's very toxic to bees. A systemic granular is sprinkled around the base of the rose and scratched into the soil. It then takes a few weeks for it to be taken up by the plant. You don't sprinkle it on the bloom. Sevin was commonly dusted on vegetables and is still used as a flea killer on animals. It's very toxic to fish. Diane

Kublakan: Yup.

Desertgarden: Check out the Thrips Field Identification Guide above. The idea of all of us with loupes or magnifying glasses to check out the bugs is pretty comical tho.

:)

Cori Ann.. is there a website you order from in regards to Natures Control? If so please share. Thanks

Thank you for the reference, Cori Ann. Hopefully this year I will find out if any type of thrip is present in my garden...hopefully not...but realistically ... maybe. If so, I do not know what method I would take, as I have never researched things like reproduction cycles, pervasiveness, or eradication of it. Recently, I have only had to research and deal with grub eradication... I can only imagine the infestation you described having the task of dealing with..... geesh!!!)...

Hi Haku... I think the link is above? But if not here it is... http://www.naturescontrol.com/thrip.html#tpm

When I ordered before I called them to talk and they were very helpful. :)

Desertgarden the grub massacre was pretty severe! I squished them, threw them in the street, stabbed them with trowels and pounded them with rocks. They just kept coming up out of the soil. I tried so hard to get rid of them without using pesticides. I actually cried while I was using the Bayer because I knew other things would die too... like bees. I can be a big blubbering baby about some things tho. I'm a weirdo. I hate squirrels, but cry for the bees.

I think it will help to give the soil another couple doses of predator nematodes now when it's easier for them to penetrate the soil. Should help for all sorts of pests! :)

I was at Biltmore last year. I saw little sachets on the rose bushes. I asked one of the workers and they were for thrips. They contained thrip predator mites. I looked into getting them, but as they were made in California and had to be refrigerated, the shipping was prohibitive. Maybe you would have better luck out there?

Curious if anyone with chili thrips has used thrips predator mites with good success? The research I read seems to show they're good, but only for high humidity areas, like greenhouses.

We usually have extremely low humidity where I am, and since it would be a kind of expensive test to try out, I think I may leave that one to those with higher humidity or a greenhouse. ;)

Anyone use them with success though?

Just talked to Nature's Control and since I used both Trichlorfon and imidacloprid (try your best not to judge me) in late Oct/early Nov last year, they recommend waiting until this next rain storm to apply the predator nematodes (using the rain to flush the soil)... I'm sorry earth. I'm sorry.

I ordered a bazillion. Seriously. The whole sha-bang. Costco size. A whole case. 24 million.

I have a large area to cover and I don't spend any money (usually) on any sprays, so I'm blowing my budget on predator nematodes. I figured I can apply them everywhere else in my yard this weekend, then in the spot where I poisoned the earth in a week or two.

This year, my fertilizer budget is going to Pro-Tekt (that silicon nutrition referenced earlier) and the alfalfa I'm growing in my own yard (figured the dogs won't eat it if it's fresh). I also use Eleanor's VF11 sometimes. A month ago I had my soil tested so I fertilized according to what the analysis recommended, but don't plan on fertilizing more (because my soil was very rich).

My county's Master Gardener's got back to me, they said they believe we DO have chili thrips in this area, but they want to research more before giving me a definitive answer and any more advice besides the basic UC IPM pestnotes above (in the first post). I will update once I hear back.

Thank you everyone for sharing your ideas and personal experiences. Keep em coming.

My yard can be a test to see how well this all works! :) I will try to share as much as I can! If any of this works and sharing it on forums like this helps to promote more permaculture, organic or biological controls, I'm all for that.

I should mention I don't judge if you use other controls though. No judgement at all coming from me.

I am told the Huntington tried pirate bugs, hundreds of small bags of them distributed throughout the rose garden. Didn't work--part of the problem was the little bags contained bran for the bugs, and various rodents ripped apart the bags to get the bran. They had to resort to pesticides in the end.

I shouldn't "like" that comment but part of me just had to laugh at the idea. That is totally something that I would do and that would happen here. Thank you for sharing! There will be no pirate branflake breakfast buffets for the rodents in my yard. Can you imagine? Trying to get rid of thrips and gaining a bunch of rodents?

I'm so sorry to hear that Hoovb, because at the talk Tom Carruth gave to our rose society, he said he wanted to show that in our climate, pesticides weren't needed. Of course that was before the chilli thrips arrived. I won't spray pesticides. Because of chilli thrips, I've lost some of my enthusiasm for roses. I might try a few of the things suggested here.

However, here is one article that says Silicon applications (such as Pro-TeKt) had minimal effects on Scirtothrips dorsalis (shilli thrips): Florida Entomology Society: Silicon applications.

Ok so I talked to my county's master gardener program later today and this is what they said:

Chili thrips have been confirmed in SoCal, but not north of that yet. They asked me to bring in samples from my garden tho once they get going. It seems like they believe it's likely we have them here even though it hasn't been confirmed.

They overwinter in the soil under debris and mulch. Get all the weeds and prune now (if you're in CA) to reduce the numbers.

They can't recommend the blue cups / blue gloves since there hasn't been enough research yet and they only recommend evidence based controls, but a lot of the master gardeners are going to try it and they want to hear back from me how works too.

Keep it clean, keep dust to a minimum to encourage predator bugs.

Understand predator bugs haven't been proven to eliminate them, but maybe reduce their numbers.

Culture control seems to have the best results currently (pruning in Jan, weeding, not shearing or promoting excessive new growth, keeping it clean, etc).

I'm still going with the predator nematodes and Pro-tekt since I want to reduce all sorts of pests and don't spray (or feed) usually. I'm definitely not feeding anymore than I already have now since new growth is what they like. Already have enough of that!

It's nice they want me to report back to them. I think they were excited to talk to someone who is passionate and has some background knowledge. If you have the time, I highly recommend calling your local master gardeners, even if it's just to make their day to talk to someone as knowledable as all of you! :)

Jasmine that's a bummer read. :( I'm still going to try the Pro-tekt (silicon), but I don't blame you for losing enthusiasm. I hope if we keep collaborating together we can figure something out that may work!

I hope so, Cori Ann. Meanwhile I'm trying to think of my roses as once blooming. I had a nice bloom in spring, because the frost in winter took care of the chilli thrips. However when temps warmed up and the winds came in, my roses looked like this:

A beekeeper explained to me how pesticides can cause entire bee colonies to collapse, not just kill the few bees that visit your garden. So I'd rather give up roses than spray pesticide or use systemics. I will try a spinosad product like Conserve, but spray only at late dusk when bees aren't active. Spinosad can hurt bees up to 3 hours after application, but is safe after that. I sometimes see bees at sunset, so I waited even later when I tried Captain Jacks. But I don't think the Spinosad in that product was concentrated enough to do any good for my roses.

Baldo Villegas, an entomologist will give a talk at my rose society meeting in March. I will let you know if I learn anything about combating chilli thrips.

Do you use horticultural oils Jasmine? Kittymoonbeam in SoCal recommended pruning now (in Jan), then starting a spray routine with horticultural oils in Jan thru when the temps reach the 80s. Here's a link to her comment: http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/4374749/anyone-else-concerned-about-roses-next-summer?n=13

It makes sense to try to lower the load in winter/spring so there are less later. Like Diane said, start before the buds form.

The soil analysis recommendation I just had recommended sulfur application for the soil near my azaleas (which I followed) so I don't want to apply horticultural oils for another month or so. Here's some info on horticultural oils: http://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=10540

I know this post already has way too much to read, and I'm not trying to give anyone homework! I just get bored on the days I take community transit and find reading his type of stuff stimulating so I will keep it coming. Here's a good read on horticultural oils from the master gardeners in Polk county in FL.

http://polk.ifas.ufl.edu/mg/Articles/Natural%20Pesticides%20Part%203%20-%20Joe.pdf

Also - a lot of people on the citrus forum have had good luck with a spray mixing horticultural oils, rosemary essential oil and Pro-tekt (for lots of pests - not specific to thrips).

Cori Ann thanks so much for all of this terrific information and for the ensuing conversations. I picked up a couple of things I didn't know or think about. Also, I had many blue cups out last year and they sure collected a lot of thrips. A lot. There was still bloom damage but at least I felt like I was doing something about it. This year, I'm contemplating how to avoid my garden looking like a blue cup farm and something more pretty. I've been collecting metal garden art (free stuff from people) in the shape of dragonflies, birds, cat faces, butterflies, etc. with the thought to spray paint them blue (and maybe some yellow) or part of them at least. Afterwards, I can spray with oil and disburse them around the garden.

Also, I noticed that some of my thrips (really? lol) also collected on a white shade structure I have and I would run my gloved hand down the poles to squish them (sorry guys). But, it alerted me to the fact that "my thrips" also are attracted to white.

I'm not super keen about cups and gloves all over the yard too. I had an idea that I might try. Rolls of vinyl are available in different colors (blue, white, etc). I was thinking of cutting them into strips and figuring out a way to attach them like flags/scarves blowing in the wind. Then coating them in oil to catch thrips. Or just buying blue landscape marking flags. The vinyl rolls would probabaly be less expensive though if they worked. And maybe reusable if I could wipe them down and reapply oil? Not sure about that, but possible? But I could cut them as long as I like or into any shape. Totally untested and just my imagination coming up with ideas... but in theory could work just like blue vinyl/latex gloves. They could be attached to trellises, obelisks, lattices, etc. Or the blue landscape flags could just be stuck in the ground.

I'm gonna try the gloves or cups first since that is what has worked for others. But I like that idea of trying different ways/surfaces to trap the buggers in oil too.

I tend to geek out about stuff. I'm glad you appreciate it. :)

I always prune my roses in January but have not used horticultural oil for over a decade. My gardens have been completely organic until last year, when I had to deal with grubs in one planter bed of my yard. I do not participate in rose competitions and growing roses here is fairly easy relatively speaking. What I mean by that is in some areas, there is black spot that you can count on, and it can be like a plague, same thing with Japanese Beetles. Everything I have dealt with could be handled with a spray hose and water. I felt personally responsible for the introduction of grubs, as I am fairly certain the problem came from a soil amendment I ordered online and used in that one planter bed. Those grubs mature, and I had to balance allowing them to do so, and the potential damage etc. that they could pose to my garden, and those around me. Sometimes we have to make tough choices, Cori Ann. You clearly care about the environment, those who live in it, and had to make a tough choice. Like you, I do not judge the choices of others, and assume/hope that everyone is attempting to do the best they can, given their conditions and abilities. We are both in the process of creating a "new garden", and starting over is usually a learning experience. It is interesting to read your post or reference regarding the use of horticultural oil. I purchased a bottle this past weekend, and as soon as I finish all of the pruning, horticultural oil will be applied. I too plan to use the blue cups... strategically placed around the roses of course :).

Looking forward to reading about the information you glean.

I have some neem oil I could try. I appreciate your bringing up this discussion, Cori Ann.

I went back through and did much more pruning than usual on my roses and many other plants. Now that I know January is the only time we are supposed to prune in my area of CA for pest control, seemed like the thing to do. I disbudded and defoliated almost all of my roses. They're naked!

I was planning to use horticultural oil too. But then stoppped because I had an idea.

I am also going to use predator nematodes.

Horticultural oil will kill those just like pests. Unless I time this right.

I did a quick search to confirm and found this good read on oils from a master gardener and horticultural professor in WA: https://puyallup.wsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/horticultural-oils.pdf

I think I should call Natures Control to figure out how to time this. I think 2-4 weeks between applications should be good... but maybe not. I don't want to kill the nematodes I paid for.

And I'm not sure which I should apply first: the nematodes or the oil.

Or maybe just forget the oil?

Maybe I will do little experiment in my yard and do oil in the back and nematodes in the front and see what happens.

Cori, it sounds like you are getting a lot of work done. I'm trying to remove all the foliage from my plants too. I have to take breaks when my back starts to hurt. I have a thing for climbing roses and I see chilli thrip damage 12 feet high.

Defoliating is much more work than I usually do when I prune! I ended up pruning harder just because it was easier than defoliating the rest of the cane. Especially the climbers! I have a thing for them too Jasmine. Luckily most of mine are new and small this year. The taller ones I pruned back to 5-6 feet so I could reach them to defoliate. I thought they all looked fine, but as I got into it I saw some of those little black dots (thrip poo?) on the leaves so I'm glad I ended up taking the extra step.

That's a good idea. I'm going to have to either get a ladder, or shorten my climbing roses.

I started my pruning today. I only got to all potted roses in containers.. yes back breaking work! I think tomorrow i will tackle the ones planted out in the yard. I noticed very little chili thrip damage on my roses in the yard when I examine them today. Though the potted roses were destroyed, Im gonna try to spread them out on the patio since they are rather close together to create a bouquet of roses. This year Im gonna buy the predator nematodes, my nature will correct its self approach has failed hehehe.

(O/T: Speaking of climbing roses my climbing edens didnt bloom much this year.. how do you prune climbing roses to get maximum bloomage)

So i went to Armstrongs (a local garden center) today, I asked them what they were doing to combat the chili thrip that has taken over our area. The guy told me that they are using Bayer Fruit Citrus and Vegetable Insect Control (https://www.bayeradvanced.com/find-a-product/insects-pests/fruit-citrus-vegetable-insect-control) coupled with spraying should chili thrip damage appears.

He said in regards to the spray you can only use one chemical (Captain Jacks) for like 100 sprays or something like that then you have to use another chemical switching between the two. So im going to give this a try and will report back with my findings.

It is true that you have to alternate treatments. You could try alternating spinosad and neem oil. I am also going to try neem cake or meal. Spinosad is safe for bees if applied at dusk when bees aren't active.

As per Wikipedia, Imidacloprid, the active ingredient in Bayer Fruit Citrus and Vegetable Control, is a systemic pesticide and thought to contribute to bee colony collapse. I know that pesticides have been a touchy subject on this forum and most have taken "we are all doing our best" and "That's a personal decision" approach. However in addition to the devastating impact for on bees, the loss of bee colonies has a huge economic impact. I really don't want to offend anyone, but eventually, we will all have to care about it.

I have never defoliated before while pruning until this year. I can really see how that one step can make a big difference. Removing the bugs' comfy baby making areas will force them elsewhere. I'm excited about how all my plants are going to burst forth with new growth at the same time now too and flush in unison (or close to it). It was a lot of extra work, but I can see how a manual control like removing leaves can really help with thrips. Spraying horticultural oil will hopefully help too.

The aphids are already appearing and there is something that looks kind of thrip-ish, but I just don't have the time to go out with a magnifying glass or loupes to check out what it actually is. I will be putting out some blue gloves coated in oil soon and whatever is caught on those I will send to the UC master gardeners so they can identify if they're chili thrips since they requested it.

The bees were out too today. They have claimed my yard as their own, along with the hummingbirds. I haven't been out there as often lately since it's been raining... so they aren't used to me being out there anymore and I was not welcome today. They were pissed at me and trying to chase me out. The hummingbirds dive bombed me and I could almost hear this one bee screaming at me to get out of his yard.

Little do they know that I am the one that created this little habitat for them! At least I know they like it!

Hi Natasha. Just trying to pay it forward since I received SOoooooo much help on this forum in such a short period of time! Hopefully this info will help all of us. Keep in mind I'm learning as I go too though!

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