Our son never really asked, however, we were very honest and upfront with him about family members with substance abuse problems and that he would probably be genetically predisposed to have alcohol problems at least if he was not careful. He is 23 and never really was an experimenter (that I am aware of). I know he, like me, does not enjoy the feeling of intoxication. He is also VERY health conscious and I think that helped. If he had asked, I would have told the truth without telling all....just enough to be honest and cautionary.

Wow, what a can of worms to digest :o I wonder if there is any ONE right answer or if it depends on the familydynamic and the child. I was a fairly "tame" teenager and got married at 21 after two years of college. I guess I was more in line with your husband's stance of deny deny deny. I don't know if it was right or not. My best friend thought she should be up front so that 1) they'd know she knows what to look for and 2) she wasn't this perfect formidable superior being. She was human and made mistakes. Both of our children turned out fine but they sure could have made it easier for us during the journey :o

My oldest just turned ten a few weeks ago, so not many questions yet. I have siblings with addiction issues. My sister served six months in prison for multiple DUIs and I bring it up from time to time in front of the children. I want them to know the very dire and possible outcomes of drinking, or using and driving. I also stress the fact that my sister and all those on the roads those nights she was arrested are lucky and a jail term for DUI was the luckiest out come for my sister it could have been for manslaughter or she could have killed her self.

with my family's issue I feel honesty is my best weapon. That along with keeping a close eye on any anxiety, depression or other mental ailments that might arise are my hope for their future.

Our only child, DD, is age 18 and a freshman in college. We have always been honest with her about our own underage drinking, drinking in college (drinking age was 18 for us) and our drug use (as Gen X/Boomer cuspers, we both inhaled and more). We have also been clear about the consequences of such behavior and told cautionary tales of stupid s*hit we or our friends did when we were drunk. We also emphasize how times have changed, for example, drinking and driving wasn't a big deal, now it (thankfully) is, you can't smoke weed in your dorm room nowadays, etc. According to DD, the parents of many of her friends deny any drug use, deny fake ID's, deny underage drinking, deny, deny, deny. The kids all know their parents are lying, and to me that is far from optimal, by being honest (well, to be fair, mostly honest), we have license to bring things up to her that, had we lied to her, could become a third rail in our relationship with her, and neither of us wants that.

It's not easy, but I do think honesty is the best policy, and shrouding your escapades (should you have any, we sure did) in mystery is a recipe for issues if ever need to come to you with a substance related problem, if they thInk you've never partaken, they might be more reluctant to seek your help.

Good luck.

We are honest. My eldest is 12 and she asks everything. We've had many conversations about sex (almost always she asks the 'good' questions when we're alone in the car) and we're just starting to talk about drugs. DH and I were relatively tame, but there were a few transgressions and scary stories of course, with alcohol for the most part.

We've been very explicit about drinking and driving and have definitely set an example there. Several times the family has walked home from friends houses when the evening went beyond a drink or so. We call it the walk of shame ;). Sometimes I think I ought not to drink in front of the kids at all, but we always act responsibly and they clearly get that any more than one or so drinks means no driving.

There has been a major scare here with opioid overdoses, especially in BC. It's shocking and terrifying and I brought this up with dd a few weeks ago. Essentially I told her that the time will come when you will want to try alcohol, there's a time when she'll want to have sex, these things can be managed, talk to me or someone else you trust. But drugs cannot be managed, many experiment and wind up dead. So sort of permissive (or realist) on some subjects and on hard drugs I've put the fear of God in her.

The opioid epidemic is truly terrifying. It is everywhere.

It truly is, Roarah.

Btw, Sochi, a good point to draw a very bright line between sex and alcohol (things that you expect them to participate in responsibly at some point ) and drugs (which have no place in their lives, period ... for the nonce I won't argue about where pot should fall).

Heretofore we have, out of a sense of protecting privacy, not told our kids about people they may know who have or have had serious substance abuse problems. I need to think about that.

My extended family has mucho alcoholism problems and we knew about that growing up. I didn't try pot until I was in college and had gotten the impression my parents didn't smoke pot. When I expressed that to my dad later on (late 20s) he was like, "are you kidding? I was a professional rock musician in the 1960s." I think it was a mixup on my part as he seemed pretty open about it.

Too funny, Robo.

We too have major alcoholism issues on both sides of the family and I have been brutally honest with my kids about the pitfalls and ramifications of drinking. My father was an alcoholic and my childhood was not a pretty picture and they are aware of that . My son was dating someone in his very early 20's and there was some alcohol-induced drama between the two of them. I told my son if it continued I would be asking him to leave the house and he knew I meant it. My kids knew that I lived through it once before (as did my DH with his brother) and neither of us was living through it again. I know it sounds unsupportive but there it is. Anyway, they wound up breaking up and a couple of years later my son actually thanked me for being so honest and for pointing out to him what it was that I saw..

With respect to drugs, we have major morphine allergies in my family including my eldest so drugs have always been off the table for them (and for me - I can't even take T3's). My son had a reaction to morphine when he had his appendix out in Grade 7 and both the doctor and I put the fear of death into both kids about experimenting with any drugs, over the counter or illegal.

WRT pot - I think you have to be aware of the drug situation in your own area to help make that call. I'm in B.C. where the opioid situation is so dire and if I had kids in the experimental age I would be telling them NO. You just don;t know what is laced with what anymore.

My kids are both living with their GF's - something that I wouldn't have done but again I'm pretty honest with them about what that change and step in a relationship means.

I think if there are substance abuse issues in a family, the children must know and it must be dealt with very honestly.

Sex? That depends on the parent's values. I've heard of parents who allow teens (HS age) to have opposite sex sleepovers. That would not happen in my house! You tell them what your values are, be they abstinence or hook-ups.

As for ones own use of drugs or alcohol or sex as teens/college age? I don't think it is any of their business unless it got you in a heap of trouble.

I had a very tame adolescence, never went beyond trying pot and light drinking. As far as that goes, I'm an open book for my kids.

My 9 year old has a classmate whose mom recently died of an overdose. It was the elephant tranquilizer being laced in other drugs (I can't recall the name of it, but it's been in the news lately).

My son knows his classmate lost his mom, but I'm not sure he knows why. I've been torn on whether or not to share the details with my son. He has discussed substance abuse in the health segment of science, but nine seems so young for real life experiences! But, this would be a real-world example that may drive the "no drugs" message in.

I don't want to derail this thread, but it's all think about when reading the discussion here. Your thoughts?

I used to be a physician so my kids have learned about all drugs since day one. We also have substance abuse issues on both sides (it seems like every family does, doesn't it?) and they know what my husband had to deal with growing up as a result.

I have let my kids drink around me and they are very responsible kids I think compared to other 16 and 18 year olds. I don't allow last minute sleepovers at friend's houses which is a big sign that there is excessive drinking going on.

As far as pot goes...I have grilled into my kids about the IQ lowering effects effects of regular marijauna use under the age of 19 on the brain and IQ and they have never tried it. They are both super smart and I think the thought of losing 8 or 9 IQ points was huge to them. They know I tried it several times decades ago and disliked it-apparently 10% of people have an anxiety reaction to marijuana and I am one of them.

However, I think within a decade, marijuana will be legal everywhere so kids REALLY need to have a healthy knowledge of what addiction looks like and how it affects others . It is everywhere at the high school level and apparently cocaine is back in a big way on college campuses which I was shocked to hear about.

The gateway drugs these days are prescription drugs. Kids often assume they are okay, because a doctor prescribed them. You really have to pay attention to the leftover painkillers. Over time, we've piled up a far amount from a sprained ankle, some impacted wisdom teeth, etc.

Now that my daughter is a fully grown adult (26), I talk to her all the time about my wild youth :-) I was in college in the late 60's and 70's with all that went along with that turbulent period and thinking back on some of the lame-brain things we did then as a matter of course without thinking about the possible ramifications makes for a good cautionary tale!! And some are just plain funny as well - my BFF I have known for going on 40 years and she was also around during that period (as was the kids' father, now my ex) and we have all regaled her with stories about our misspent student days and those years immediately thereafter.

Apparently, we did a good job by her, as she is responsible, has good judgment, avoids an excess of anything and is very heath conscious (she is type 1 diabetic), so I worry not at all. She seems a whole lot more savvy than I was at that age but then times were different back then. If you provide the info they need early enough and instill proper values, you have to let them grab life on their own terms and make their own mistakes........and pray like crazy they are not bad ones.

Our kids are middle school/high school, and so far have not asked questions about my experiences. If/when they do, I'll lie. Although my experiences were fairly mild, my kids at this age do not need images of me or DH in those situations.

We talk to our kids quite often and cater the discussion to their personalities. For example, one of my kids is a germaphobe and I once described a typical meth maker as having greasy hair, dirt under their fingernails, not washing their hands after using the toilet, and then they make the drugs in a filthy bathroom... I know this sounds unconventional, but to a 13-year-old who prioritizes cleanliness, the image of a dirty, nasty person making drugs leaves an impression. Fortunately, most media images of drug dealers/users support this image!

We also know the parents of most of their friends and I drop names like, "Oh, I saw Katie's mom today and thanked her for picking you up from the movies last weekend," letting them know that we track whereabouts.

I think our upcoming challenge, as noted above, is discussion about marijuana given its growing acceptance, as well as binge drinking in college.

I do think some kids are predisposed to taking risks or have a high need for peer approval and may be more inclined to experiment with drugs in social situations. Those with issues like anxiety, depression, needing an escape, etc. are more susceptible to abusing and addiction. I watch for these traits in my kids and know they may play a factor in all of this too.

My kids are older now-in their 30's but we did have discussions about drugs early on. Unfortunately their bio-father, my ex-husband, had substance abuse issues-one of the reasons we divorced. We always talked about the responsible use of alcohol as adults, and we were anti-smoking. I remember telling my kids that I used to smoke when I was young, but quit when it was time to have children, and they're non-smokers now.

We kept running dialogues all their life, being age appropriate, about drugs, alcohol and sex-we kept it really fact based and used anecdotal instances. They never asked me about the first time I had sex or if I did drugs-I guess they just assumed that since it was never a taboo topic in our home that it was not a big deal. No, actually, once they were all well in to adult hood they asked me if I'd ever used drugs-specifically pot. I told them I did, but was never a big fan, and they never asked me any more. Same about sex-they've never asked me when I lost my virginity. I have had frank discussions with my kids as adults at different times about my past, so they're not surprised now, I guess they look at it in retrospect, that's why mom knew so much! LoL.

I think if they were young today I'd still follow the same format, discuss it, normalize the discussions, and let your kids know that if they have questions about anything it's ok to ask you. Don't ever lie about it!

Hmmm, Amj, I think I would tell him and take your cue from how he reacts. He may have heard already.

There is one right answer--there just aren't one same family/teen!! What ever you say that keeps your teen safe is the right answer. The problem is no one knows THAT until we look back and see if it worked!! The best answer IMHO is one where honesty is core. Where mom and dad have nothing to get off their chest, that shows the teen mom and dad KNOW the score and made mature, informed, positive choices. It really is a good system when YOUNG adults make choices looking to the future, looking to what they will one day have to face/tell their own offspring. Back in the day family reputation was held over the heads of older siblings..be an example etc... it kept a lot of people safe. My offspring did not know I had occasion to drink in high school a few times. They still do not know I have smoked pot. They never asked. They would say I had "more fun" than they did in school--I am GREAT with that. They never asked the question. They assumed from our chats I WOULD NEVER.... When you give teens the issues and they feel you trust they will make the right decisions they seem to--or at least mine did. Some teens are more adventurous than others. Some get STUCK in social situations that really throw them off track. Frankly do what you can to have open conversations then PRAY PRAY PRAY!! It worked for us.

I wanted to elaborate a bit about never trusting a teenager. When DS1 was in his 2nd year at college I called to say hello, his roommate and best friend for life answered the phone and said DS wasn't there. I asked where he was (it was night time), and is friend accidentally blurted out to me, "He went to get some smokes. Oh, I probably should't have told you that." lol My son smoked and I never knew it. The son I trusted explicitly! He quit right after college though.

Don't trust the little buggers until they're 40. :)

If I had a teenager I would worry a little bit about pot. I think there is some evidence that it can change a growing brain. I don't mean to sound alarmist. I was talking to a psychiatrist friend of mine who smokes pot even now and he said he wished he had not started until he was in his 20s given what he knows now about brain development. I don't know if teenagers would be susceptible to any fact-based, non-alarmist advice on this point. I don't remember anyone trying to have these conversations with us as teens, we were definitely still stuck in the reefer madness paradigm where I am, which I find frustrating, because if kids can clearly see that is not happening around them that it sort of calls into question all the other alarmist advice they get about heroin or STI's.

@Robo (z6a)

I told my kids that pot is associated with schizophrenia (the evidence is pretty good on this). Most people don't get schizophrenia, but a genetic predisposition + lots of pot is a bad combo. Plus, they may have some slight genetic predisposition.

I must say, moving to an American high school has made my son talk about pot a lot more. Most of it is bad puns (he's fond of those), but clearly the stuff comes up in conversation around him a lot more than when we lived overseas.

If I had teens I would definitely rather they smoke pot than binge dink - only one can be the death of you.

Can I also say I do not get why any young person would start smoking cigarettes? It's so gross! As a child of two chain-smokers I was constantly sick growing up. Always think it looks really weird when I see a kid smoking.

sorry Mtn, I know we weren't really supposed to get into the pot thing.

Oh oakley - no judgement here, ever, to anyone here.

Oakley I give you so much credit for coming clean. No judgement here, it could be any of us. The people on this thread are all competent, involved parents and it can still happen. Children with no guidance have it so much worse. It's a tragedy.

Thank you blfenton and yaya. The only positive from this experience is it humbled me immensely and my eye's opened up to other people's pain.

I know why teens smoke!! Because they go to their girlfriend's house after school who happens to have a pack of her mother's cigarettes and tells her friend to smoke one. NO says the friend, but she finally caved after 15 min. Once she learned to inhale, it was all over.

It was hard but I quit. I'm like Obama, I'll have one every now and then. :)

BTW, in re the person above asking for advice, and in re Robo and the pot comments, feel free to go off on tangents on my threads, always.

My thread was provoked by the ad saying ... they're gonna ask, be ready, but all of the comments are interesting.

I agree that the smoking by young people is confusing. Most kids under 12 can read you chapter and verse about why not to smoke and are little vigilantes about it. How then does it become cool enough that a fair amount of teens (even smart, and focused ones!) still end up smoking? So gross. I always tell my kids that kissing a smoker is like licking an ashtray (blech!). There is also a cash bonus in our family if you hit 30 having never been a smoker.

PS Oakley, I think parenting is definitely humbling! Luckily yours was just a very minor brush with trouble. I know many fine parents who have been put through the wringer. And though I am not religious, all I can think is "there but for the grace of God!" ... and sometimes, even with the grace of God!

ETA: Here is my .02 on pot. I do not understand people needing to get high regularly on anything. Not drinking or pot or drugs. I do not understand wanting to alter one's mood so often and so dramatically. We drink far more rarely than any of our friends. I think we are just lucky that is does not compel us in any way. But I also think, even for people who just "need a glass of wine" at the end of the day ... why do you need or want to alter your mood so often? What else can you do to achieve the same thing, or better yet, how can you address the cause of these moods? Unhappiness or anxiety is telling you something; don't mask the signal. Admittedly, that is easier for me to say, as I feel blessed in many ways, but it is still what I say to my kids about substance use/abuse.

Much depends on your child and their temperment. (thinking of the poster wondering what to tell her child about friend's mother's drug death). And different school districts have very different support systems (psychologists, counselors, social workers) and these folks can have very different skill sets -- but what I'm trying to say is its possible to call your school and speak with one or some of these folks to discuss what might be age appropriate; to find out what they have already learned in school (either from curriculum or enrichment programs if your school has those) -- to help bring you up to speed on what your child may already know (generally). This is for drugs, or deaths, social issues, mental health. Some Districts have zilch, sadly, but if yours has resources you should feel free to utilize them (people feel free to hire sports coaches and special training, academic tutors, etc. -- there's no shame is seeking professional support for life). Also, our local police department and town nurse run informational programs on mental health, drug use, etc. and can be very good resources. There was also a good story in the NYT about research done because people were thinking -- wow, many folks try drugs, but not everyone becomes addicted, and they have identified personality types and behaviors that could predispose kids to addictions and other harmful behaviors. So while another poster pointed out -- its hindsight to know if what you chose to do 'worked out' -- there is at least a little research on factors that may contribute (such as the genetic component).

Personally I'm on the fence what to say -- I was off the chart (and survived, but kind of surprise myself that way). My roomate smoked dope all through high school and is still pretty much genius level IQ. Lots of good postings to digest, thank you. ETA MtnRed, thank you for posting the question. And, I think they just make better commercials than they did 40 years ago, LOL. Remember the frying pan "this is your brain on drugs" ?

Funny you should say that, HB, because the commercial (I wasn't paying full attention as I was in a taxi) started with the "this is your brain on drugs" image. Maybe because their target audience would recall it, or maybe they still use it, IDK? The ad ended with the "be ready" admonition.

Our town used to have the DARE program starting in elementary school. It did not work. Instead, the kids learned how to "beat the system."

We no longer have the program as statistics showed it wasn't working.

HB, I found that piece you mentioned. Very interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/04/well/family/the-4-traits-that-put-kids-at-risk-for-addiction.html?_r=0

That current commercial came on while I was watching TV with my 12 year old...she and I just kind of looked at each other..... !

Thanks for the support Mtn. But a few years in prison was crippling to our family, and I'd give anything for it to have been a minor brush. All of us went into a deep depression. And then add bipolar to it, and what a trip! Good pun! We've since recovered but I'm still suffering from PTS, which I figure will be forever. Stuff like that happens to "other people."

I hate saying this, but those DARE programs are a joke. Peer Pressure is what gets kids the most. Like when I inhaled that first cigarette.

About ADHD. When I was diagnosed having adult ADD a couple of years ago, I read up on it and found out that kids who have ADHD are very prone to bipolar disorder and other mental health issues, which in turn does lead to drugs. I don't think my son had ADHD, the teachers all adored him, he was very popular in school and made excellent grades. Well behaved.\

The article you posted was fantastic. If our schools had that program, my son may have been diagnosed before it was too late.

Drugs and mental illness, including ADHD and depression, go hand in hand.

Our government needs to do more to help our children. If I were president.....sigh.....

Oakly, I am so sorry for the pain you have been through (Hell on earth). Unfortunately, I can relate.

I too have a DS who is/was an addict. He started with Oxycodone his 1st year of college when he was 19 in 2002. Both he and his girlfriend became addicted. By the time the person who had the pill supply got fired from the place where they all worked DS and girlfriend were addicted. Since pills were expensive they moved to heroin, which is much cheaper.

He was not living at home so I was not aware of his addiction. He dropped out of college and his behavior became very erratic. Sometimes when he would be at the house he was perfectly normal and engaging and other times he was sick. I know now that when he seemed most normal was when he had just had a fix. When he was sick it was because he did not have any heroin to keep him functioning. Heroin addicts fear dope sickness more than anything and they will do nearly anything to not feel that way.

He finally came to me and his dad asking for help and told us he was addicted to heroin. Up to this point he had been pretty much avoiding us. The times since we learned of his addiction have been a very uphill battle. He has been arrested several times, homeless at times, out of touch for months at a time, and in some seriously deadly situations.

I too could write a book about the what our family has been through but sadly the story is not unique. Through a family support group that I used to attend I know of far worse outcomes for many parents. Their kids have died, their kids have had babies that they can't care for, their kids are doing hard-time, their kids have prostituted themselves.

Just recently my BFF had a 24 year old friend of her DS OD in her house. Luckily her DH (who is a Dr.) was home and was able to perform CPR until the ambulance arrived. My other friend's 60 year old mom died of an overdose of alcohol and pills and yet another friend's 40 something BIL relapsed. These are all normal, upper-middle class, college educated folks whose lives are deeply affected by someone's addiction.

Once someone knows that you have your own addict they will share with you. You probably know someone who is dealing with a addict right now. We only talk about it among ourselves because we are afraid you will blame us for failing our loved-ones.

When my DS was in high school he watched the movie "Requiem for a Dream" and told me that if you ever wanted to get someone to never try heroin you should make them watch that movie. I watched it after he told me about it and it is a truly frightening and very accurate portrayal of heroin addiction. Two years later he was an addict.

I know there is nothing you can say that will keep kids from experimenting - some will and some won't, some will like the feeling and others won't. I do think you need to show them the real dangers of using substances that are mind altering, but even after they know some will still partake.

My younger DS knows that his much older brother has addiction and that it has had a very negative affect on his brother's life. Will that be enough to keep him on the right track? I don't know but I hope so.

It's been nearly two years since I saw my older DS. I had to distance myself and my DH and younger DS from the situation when it became apparent that older DS was abusing again. On a brighter note my ex tells me that older DS his doing very well and has had the same job for over a year and has been promoted and seems to have turned a corner. My ex is not one to be fleeced so hopefully DS sobriety sticks this time and I can then have a relationship with him again.

Oakley,

Apologies for my idiocy, and thank you for your openness. My mistake!

I read this thread from the bottom post, where people were thanking you for sharing. When I scrolled up, the first post I saw from you was the one about your DS smoking. I thought that was a pretty "minor brush" and of course it is.

I have since scrolled up more and read your story. Oh my goodness, that certainly is a trauma for you all. Thank goodness you have all made it through that. I also agree with your points, esp. ... "drug abuse depends on the child and their genes."

For those of us who have never had a drug problem, we kid ourselves if we think we deserve credit. It's not like it takes any effort for me (or most of us) to stay away from drugs. It's not even as though most of us never took any risk with any drug. No, we don't have drug issues ourselves just because we just are not compelled by it. We deserve no praise for never having had a substance abuse problem. When that dawned on me, it helped me to see that, by the same token, then, those with the problem, do not deserve our judgment or reprobation ... they deserve our support and respect and help.

Rory, How painful to have had to disengage from your relationship with your son. I don't doubt that that can become necessary. Thank goodness he is stable now. As for people who judge, everyone likes to believe that when terrible things happen they have an easily identifiable cause. If they don't have an easily identifiable cause, that makes life a lot scarier ... you think, uh oh, that meteor could hit my family, too. I think that is why people like to blame families for substance issues. If they can identify the "flaw" in that family that "caused" the problem, all they have to do is not make the same mistake. It is comforting to them but probably makes the burden even heavier for the family so afflicted.

Oakley and Rory, I'm so sorry for the pain you've been through. I can't imagine what this must be like. Thank you for sharing your stories--a reminder that none of us can take anything for granted. My thoughts are with you, your families and sons.

Heartbreaking stories Oakley and Rory. I am sorry. Thank you for your honest sharing, it's a reminder that no family is safe.

ML

Oakley- my heart cries for you as I can empathize so very much with the pain you and your family have endured. I have three happy, healthy, productive/good citizen daughters, but my troubled son (23y) can easily overshadow the accomplishments of his sisters. Mental illness/addiction are heartbreaking brain diseases.

On topic- One thing to watch for is Adderall. There is a whole generation of kids and young adults who have access to this controlled substance. They don't always use it for it's intended purpose. It is NOT a study aid for the masses! The older kids open the pill casing and snort it. Some share and sell the pills. Scary stuff.

((((Oakly)))) yes, it is a club no mom wants to ever be part of, and I can relate to the PTSD-I literally still have nightmares about my son being locked up. Nothing worse than your child being out of your hands-where you absolutely cannot protect them.

((((Rory)))) my stepson has an undiagnosed mental problem-I suspect bi-polar but we know for a fact he's got a mental disease-we were told when he was just 5 but his mother (custodial parent) refused to get him diagnosed or treated. Instead we were handed an out of control 15 year old who also self medicated, and he got into steroid use-he is huge, an MMA fighter-and scary when he goes into his rages. He's been in and out of prison.

My good friend just told me that her 27 yo daughter got in a car accident, was prescribed oxycontin and now is a heroin addict. She's been in an out of rehab but is not clean yet and she's afraid she'll never be. She was always her little girl-she'd never even smoked a cigarette in her life, but once she got the oxycontin, that was it. It's crazy how some people have a predisposition to addiction. I take Vicodin for my chronic pain and I can take it or leave it-it doesn't set off the addictive receptors in my brain, but my DH can't take it because it does set it off in his mind. He got hooked on them after several surgeries, and later oxycontin but detoxed and never even takes an advil any more.

I really believe that most people are blissfully ignorant about prescription drug abuse and how it destroys lives. It's a middle-upper middle class drug scourge and no family is immune.

As to mental illness, I wish more people would speak up about it. I've suffered severe depression for years. I'm functional but barely some days. I'm open about it, but my sweet cousin who is crippled by it, her mother doesn't tell anyone about it-she tells people she's got other health issues. When I told my cousin I suffer from it, she cried, she felt she had a life line because her mother (whom I love so much) is afraid to talk about it.

Mtn, thank you so much for doing this topic. I've been wanting to get this off my chest to you all for years. Again, I thank Carrie Fisher who was an addict for a long time until she was diagnosed with BPD, and still adored world wide. I can't wait to watch "Bright Lights" tonight! HBO.

This post may be long since I'm quoting.

"These are all normal, upper-middle class, college educated folks whose lives are
deeply affected by someone's addiction"

Tell me about it! This is a recent story in my little town of Peyton Place, and while I hurt for the family, it's kind of a relief, KWIM? A very very VERY prominent family here have many children, all succesfull professionals, married to perfect spouses, with perfect kids, living in perfect homes and well, you get the gist. After DS went to prison, I was angry as hell, and jealous and envious of everybody. Particularly this family who live close to us. They are all nice people. I would get mad at God and ask Him why are they so blessed? Well, one of their adult kids, who is married and has children, and is a professional with a higher degree (I also called them perfect) was arrested for meth, at 30 years old. Both spouses were addicted to meth, and their children taken away. When I heard that, my jaw fell to the ground. They've been in and out of rehab, and may be on the road to recovery, everyone is hoping they make it. Perfect example of how drugs (Starting meth, at that age??) affect families of all classes. Learn from me, don't be fooled if you think the Joneses next door lead that perfect life. Addiction can begin at any age. Damn meth, it's everywhere in our state. Can we cuss? lol

"I
think that is why people like to blame families for substance issues. "

I get so angry when I get on FB and those who walk on water post meme's about good parenting and if your kid screws up, it's YOUR fault. I call BS on that, and I have to sit on my fingers. Is it bad for me to wish karma on them, because sometimes I do.

"I
literally still have nightmares about my son being locked up. Nothing worse than
your child being out of your hands-where you absolutely cannot protect
them....I've
suffered severe depression for years. I'm functional but barely some days. "

Neetsie, the first couple of years after my son "left," (that's what I call it), I had the most beautiful recurring dream. The prison would let him come home every weekend, and he, DS1, and DH would all go fishing at the pond near our house, and in the dream I could see them from the kitchen window.

I never had depression except for the normal bouts we all get, until he left. When DH was at work I cried off and on all day. I would go outside and scream at the top of my lungs. One benefit of living in the country. A couple of times I woke up during the night with tears on my cheeks. After a year my cheeks became chapped from crying. I finally told my doctor (my son got high for the first time with my doctor's son, who is now a doctor himself) and he gave me an anti-depressant. The tears stopped the next day, and I don't cry anymore unless it's at a commercial on TV, or I think about my late Gracie Girl who was with me during my darkest hours.

A couple of years ago I tried explaining to someone here on GW that there IS such a thing as "situational depression" but I was blown off. Some people need anti-depressants!! Never ever tell someone they don't need them until you walk that mile in their shoes. Ever. Sorry, that's a pet peeve of mine.

Do you take any AD's, Neetsie? They're not for everybody because sometimes they don't work. I'm not going off mine because I don't want to deal with the side effects of withdrawal. I tried once, dropping the dose by only a quarter, and one time I was alone cleaning the floors and I threw something, so I went back to the full dose. LOL

"Instead we were handed an out of control 15 year old who also self medicated,
and he got into steroid use-he is huge, an MMA fighter-and scary when he goes
into his rages. He's been in and out of prison."

I'm sure your stepson is an adult by now, but even so, in most states you can have them committed for a week or so and they can get help, with no charges against them. Have you talked to him about getting treatment for the mental illness? If so, it's like talking to a brick wall, huh?

Enlightening topic, I don't feel alone anymore.

Thank you all for sharing your very powerful stories. It is such a difficult topic.

My 2 children are Russian adoptees. The rate of alcoholism in Russia is among the highest in the world and we have no medical or mental family history on either of them(they are not biological siblings). They have always been loving and well behaved children and are now in their early 20's.

We have experienced a wide range of mental health issues with both including ADD, severe depression, suicidal thoughts, social anxiety, physically debilitating anxiety and possible BPD. It's been a long road and it continues daily.

We've always felt strongly that keeping the lines of communications open with our children were among the most important things we could do. It's particularly hard for me since I grew up in a home where my parents didn't really talk to us about anything of substance. I would have never felt comfortable talking to my mom about drugs, sex or how I was feeling. But I have tried to be non judgemental and my children do talk to me about all those things(and more). My DH and I were honest with my kids when the topics of drugs and premarital sex came up. They both have smoked pot. Both feel that it makes their anxiety worse so they are very infrequent users. My ds went wild with drinking his freshman year of college and told me stories that had me thanking God that He looked out for my ds. He could have easily died from alcohol poisoning. Luckily he met a wonderful girl who isn't into partying and he rarely drinks more than an occasional beer or two.

All the talking and preparing in the world can't guarantee or predict if your children will abuse alcohol or drugs. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try. That is the hardest part of parenting, isn't it? You try your best and then just hold your breath.

CZarinalex, you said it, "you try your best and then just hold your breath." Sadly I think humans are hard wired to be judgemental, you only know what you know. But hopefully we can continue to speak out supportively and talk about these issues and concerns so that anyone in need can feel the support and feel it's ok to reach out, receive help, and so that others will be less alone. The thought is not coming out very well, but there should be no shame in speaking about these things. I think if people are honest, we all have family and friends who are affected by mental illness, drug use and other challenges. No one is perfect, and if we are able, we should support and help each other.

I'm pretty up front with my daughter, but then I didn't do a lot of crazy stuff when I was younger (no drugs, limited alcohol that started after high school, no sex until I was 20).

Like some others have mentioned, there is alcoholism in the family. My family is made up of mostly moderate drinkers, but her dad's family is split down the middle between complete teetotalers (due to alcohol intolerance linked to their Chinese heritage) and alcoholics. I don't know what set of genes she got, and I've been up front with her about that since she was in elementary school.

H B - Your thought came out very well and I completely agree. We should be able to support one another without fear of judgement.

Sometimes it just takes an ear to listen and speaking needn't be involved.

I had a brother who was schizophrenic (he died of a brain aneurysm a number of years ago) and my parents were so ashamed of him. When they moved to a smaller community after retiring they told everyone they only had 5 children and not 6. When he died we all wanted to put a notice in the paper and my mom said no - that's when we find out what they had told their new friends. My siblings and I respected their wishes but felt so bad for my parents and for my brother.

I do have to admit that when my sons entered their teens I held my breath until they were in their mid-twenties hoping that schizophrenia would not rear it's ugly head. It didn't.

I haven't told son everything-and I won't. I don't want to know everything he does, or will do, either. He is 13 years old, but I told him a little story of mine last year. Note: I grew up in a small town and my parents were very strict.

I told him, what I believe, was my fork in the road: There was one time I was in a car when I was 15, with a friend (she was smart and gorgeous, a cheerleader with me) and 3 other driving-age friends (not really my friends, but her friends) and they got out some pot-I had never even seen pot before. They started passing it around and as they were going from person to person, I kept thinking as it was getting closer to my turn, "what would my mom and dad think of me, if they could see me right now, in this car with these people?" I was the only one in the car who did not smoke any. I never told anyone and I never stayed over at my friends house again-that was the one and only time I did. She went down the fork in the road that led to drugs and then died in prison after high school. I chose the other.

It was interesting, because my son was over at his friends house, and his mom told me that she and the boys were having a conversation about "drugs", and my DS told her my story about my fork in the road. I was surprised he remembered our little "talk" and it must have made an impression on him. He normally never listens to me! I will keep holding my breath too-as, I know, sometimes, there is no rhyme or reason to kids and drugs.

I did, however, move to California in my mid-twenties-for 3 years and shot all that to heck!

Well said, HB. BLF, I am so so sorry for what you and your family went through. Very similar to the Kennedy's and their daughter Rose. Have you read the newish book about her? I've been meaning to order it, the book has pretty good reviews.

CZ, I literally feel your pain. If you ever need to talk one on one, send me a message. Right now the best advice I can give you is to make them go to either a psychiatrist or therapist. Both can diagnose, and most therapists work with MD's to do the prescribing. Finding the right medicine, or combination of medicine takes time and patience.

Ollie, I don't want to sound like a know it all, but a word of advice. Don't assume your story will stick with your son. It brought back memories of when my son, the one with BPD, was about the same age. I remember it vividly. I guess we were talking about alcoholism, and he said, "I'm never going to be an alcoholic, just a popaholic." He was sitting there drinking a Coke. I also remember feeling a bit of relief thinking he has his head screwed on right. Just keep talking and watch all kids with an Eagle eye.

All parents need to tell their kids "You are who your friends are." Especially during the formative years. Even that doesn't always work. The guy my son was with "that day" came from a well to do family and his father is a CEO of a large company.

As CZ said, "You try your best and then just hold your breath." You're doing great though!