I see you get it - understand - Lux and Gean - that is good descriptions. But like Ingrid wrote - a garden in the state of perfection is just fleeting moment/sense/even feeling - how can a camera capture that? A camera can capture a perfect rosebush (Hoovb have captured - some of her magnificient rosebushes - the size we can only dream of over here) - but proving that perfection or garden ideals in California or elsewhere in the world for that matter are different. A camera can capture a perfect flower - a perfect rosebush - a perfect part/angle of the garden - but the quality of the picture will reflect the quality of camera equipment - lighting conditions - time of day - humidity - and filters - photo-editing - layers etc. and not least the skill and knowledge of the person using it. A camera also only captures some angles of a garden - depending how we zoom in and and out and what we choose to capture/expose. A camera will never document a feeling of having reached perfection - and the fact that my idea and ideals of what constitute perfection and overwhelming, tearful joy - will or might be very different from others ideas or ideals of what a perfect garden is for them. But I sat there - and the beauty - flowed through me and touched me deeply - and tears began to flow - what I had hoped for - I sensed - I felt - I smelled - not just saw - I am afraid we have become to visual and in a day of age where we upgrade our digital cameras/lenses and photo-editing equipment all the time - we tend to forget that a garden speaks to other senses that just our vision/Eyes - but touches our whole body and soul. These days I am working on my new ugly plot too - it may never become beautiful - I could divide it into small garden vignettes or rooms - to use for temporary garden articles - showing plant combinations - but it will be "Artificial" - "staged" and the end result - will look great on pictures depending on the factors mentioned above about what a camera is able to capture and the following photo-editing that can manipulate near every aspect of a 18 mill. pixels - 8 MB RAW photo file. I just shared this moment of my love for roses and my garden - "perfection is probably is more than in the eye of the beholder" it is a fleeting feeling and it will not last - it will be hard to maintain - and like you know it takes work and years - and such moments may not come again - as all who have a garden and grow many roses - know all too well. I just hope that you one day might get the same feeling and you will KNOW what I tried to capture - I will take pictures - but the light is harsh - and today I might spot a yellowing leaf, a weed or 2 and before I know it I will be sweaty, have dirt under my fingernails - scratches from rosethorns because I forgot to wear glowes ... and it is hot as hell .... maybe perfection was just a day or 2 ago ... Well I better go out there ... No time to help Catsrose or blog right now Jimmy ... I will however...

most weeds are and medicinal, if you start a foodforest there is not way around it - you will get dandelions and other weeds. the only way around is is heavy mulching with mulch made from bark ( large particles ) like pine bark mulch. OR you can plant groundcovers that supresses weed..MOST groundcovers are invasive. when you choose a groundcover choose one that is really good looking and reliable, do not get groundcovers that become very high or bushy. Alot of groundcovers have medicinal properties and alot of them are edible. pachysandra terminalis looks natural and is easy to pull Ajuga reptans lysimachia nummelaria ''aurea'' ( less invasive cultivar ) some bergenia cordifolia cultivars do not get too large and are evergreen, will grow in any type of condition. Fragaria 'Lipstick' for example is edible one ( doesn't taste like normal strawberry tho). you also have creeping chamomille which has edible foliage ( for herbal tea), Creeping thyme, Creeping prostrate rosemary ( just layer all branches, rinse and repeat ). if your zone isn't too cold you may consider growing gotu kola. Cornus canadensisis a edible creeping groundcover, there are 2 cultivars that stay smaller than one foot. you also have small shrubs like Gaultheria procumbens, certain edible dwarf mahonia species, Certain grass species like acorus gramineus '' licorice'' has sweet tasting foliage that is edible , its low creeping evergreen species that can be easily propagated. 2 links : http://www.pfaf.org/user/cmspage.aspx?pageid=81 http://www.pfaf.org/user/DatabaseSearhResult.aspx just check the edible rating and medicinal rating and what parts are edible from each plant. Just make sure that you get the right plant for proper locations, in edible / foodforest gardens it's often shade tolerant species. This post was edited by Lodewijkp on Mon, Aug 25, 14 at 16:13

Hi gfult... Well, if you don't have any where to dig them in temporarily then you might as well just do them on the 27th of October. I did plant all of my foundation plants in November one year and it actually started snowing while they were planting them and they all lived. I would say as long as you are not digging them up and moving them, but have potted plants to go in, and as long as the ground is not frozen to dig in, then you have a very good chance of them doing fine for you. I don't have any experience with the other plants you list but definitely, the Stella d'or daylilies, even leaving them out all winter in their pots worked for me last winter, so planting them late should work for you. At any rate it would seem you only have two choices, plant them late, or leave them in pots all winter above ground and of the two, planting late seems preferable. I wouldn't be thinking of leaving them in the garage or basement all winter, but I don't know if others feel the same way. I would prefer planting them late to doing that. :-) pm2

I have a similar solution to cindy socal. I have two different lights in my bathrooms. The pretty fixtures made for incandescent bulbs (over the mirror or sconces) are hooked up to the same vacancy sensor she shows. Ironically, I also have compact fluorescents in these, but that doesn't count for Title 24. I also have a recessed fluorescent can (26 Watt pin type) over the shower, which is on a separate switch. The reason is the sensor will not "sense" you in the shower, through the glass door. You don't want the light to cut out when you are in the shower. There is no requirement to use any fluorescent lighting in the bathroom at all, but you can only use incandescent if it is on a motion sensor. The 50% of your wattage rule is for kitchens, not bathrooms.