More info for the layout experts - critique away!
Hi again, ok here goes. This is going to be really long I fear. This is a follow up to a previous post about whether or not to put in a prep sink. My question led to a critique of the overall layout, which stung but I am open to rethinking. Here are better images, and more info in response to the comments.
- The new plan is almost identical to the current kitchen as we bought it. We've been in the house for 18 mos and the kitchen layout works very well for us. No major complaints, just tweaks I'd like to make. We did consider a few radically different plans but kept coming back to keeping it basically the same. I feel reassured knowing that it already works so well.
- I am permitted by code to have a cooktop under the window, which does open. Currently there is an 8 burner gas behemoth which passed inspection. Believe it or not, the windows and surrounding woodwork don't get dirty at all! There will be ventilation above the new cooktop, just not sure what it will be yet. Had my heart set on Zephyr Lux but will get another HVAC opinion before deciding. (see this post if you're interested)
- The base cabinets are 26" falling back to 22" at the two ends. The reason for this on the left is that full depth will overlap trim around the doorway, and on the right it's because I currently have full depth cabinets here and I feel like it impedes traffic to the breakfast nook. I'm always hitting my hip on the corner and wishing it was shallower.
- Because I want to keep the passage and view to the breakfast nook as open and airy as possible (it is all windows with a spectacular ocean view), I do not want to put anything full depth and tall in that spot (such as the fridge or wall ovens). Additionally, creating a landing counter at the left by the front door (needed because otherwise mail, etc, ends up on the island which drives me crazy) means I lose my pantry cupboards. So the end by the nook becomes the pantry. I have seen upper cupboards that come down to the counter in friends' houses and really like it. This spot has counter under standard uppers now and we don't use it as prep or cooking landing, rather it just collects crap. So I don't mind losing that counter space to storage.
- Appliances have been agonized over (models are all noted in the attached elevations) and I feel really great about the choices. Reasoning is long and very personal so not something I want to rehash. They're also all paid for so discussion of whether or not I made the right choices is off limits! :) But I will say that I currently have "just" 2 24" european size ovens under the 8 burner range and I have no problem at all. In fact one of them doesn't light easily so I never use it. I feel very confident about not having a ginormous north american oven. We live in a place where we can cook outdoors almost all year and can grill right out the patio door so that's our back up.
- The current island is longer than the one in the new plan but I find the passage way from the front door to the family room is a bit pinched so new island will be a bit shorter.
- I do 90% of my prep and serving on the island, not on the counters. I think this is because I always have kids and guests in the family room or at the table in the nook and I don't like to have my back to them.
- The only thing that I don't like in all this is that my kitchen is in full view from the main entry. (Previous owners had swinging doors between the entry and kitchen, to force traffic into the living room but they were a nuisance to us with 3 little kids. fyi, the wall between the entry and dining room is glass.) It would be interesting to talk about rearranging the whole dining/kitch/family/nook plan but I have absolutely no appetite for undertaking a reno as major as that.
- This is my dream home and I'm never ever leaving so all decisions are for us only, not resale.
- What else? Ask away!
Current floor plan:
(the black boxes on either side of the two-sided family-dining room fireplace are built-in shelves)
Sketch of new plan: (Based on feedback in my prep sink thread, I moved the fridge as far to the left as possible. This leaves approx 46" of counter between the fridge and the sink which seems like plenty to me (give or take, depending on final sink choice, will be a big single). I currently have only 30" here, thanks to a whopping 43" sink and typical 36" fridge.
3D of the most recent plan (before moving the fridge further to the left) Moving the fridge to the left will make the open shelves uneven widths but I *think* i'm ok with this.
Elevations that go with the 3-D:
If you've read this far, thank you for spending your NYE with me. :) If you have time to absorb it and give me your honest opinion, I will be so grateful! I feel very excited and confident about my plan but signing off on this stuff is nerve wracking. Thank you!!
PS Still need thoughts on the prep sink ;)
Comments (14)
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layout critique requested
Comments (4)I think my builder knew your builder... I kept the footprint of my kitchen, but just tweaking appliance placement and taking cabinets to the ceiling made a huge difference in our storage space and function. I love my easy-reach corners, compared to the angled cabinet caverns! I agree with Cindy that a lot of small drawer stacks are not going to give you the storage you hope for. I have one 18" drawer stack, and while it's fine for dish towels and storage bags, it wouldn't be much good for pots and pans, or small appliances. Is the window centered on the sink wall? It seems to be in the photos, but the layout shows it off to one side. It looks like you have a 36" sink base. Do you need that much? I went to a 30" sink base in my new kitchen, and it helped a lot. My U-shaped kitchen is about the same width as yours, and I couldn't figure out a way to put the dishwasher next to the sink without sacrificing a lot of good storage. I put it next to the fridge, where you show a MW drawer. Could you make your peninsula a little longer, and put the MW drawer there? Or not have the counter extend out toward the fridge, and have the MW face the fridge? Speaking of peninsula - the corner cab that says "drawers and pullouts" - you won't be able to access a drawer under the counter overhang. Here's a thought - I apologize for not posting a layout, I haven't figured that out yet. See if you can imagine this, starting at fridge and working around clockwise: - Fridge, full-depth storage above. I have pullouts - love 'em. - 20" tall pantry - 24" DW. Most people want to put the DW next to the sink, but even with the small one you showed, it throws everything off in a small U. I've had mine on the adjacent leg for 25 years, and have no complaints. With the amount of cooking you do, I think you'd appreciate the full-sized DW. - 36" super susan. I use mine for small appliances, and it's very convenient. - sink base - 32" drawer stack (likely 3 drawers). - Closed off corner. Yep, no way to store anything in the corner, no way, no how. The advantage (and it's huge) is that you get to have nice wide drawers on each side. I did this in my kitchen, and I use those drawers every single day. I gained enough storage in other parts of the kitchen that I didn't need storage that was difficult to use. - 28" drawer stack. Here's where the closed corner comes in, with drawers on each side of it. I allowed a couple of inches filler on each side, so the drawers can clear each other. - your big honking range! - 14" tray storage. I have one that's only 9", and even that is wonderful - 24" corner, accessible from the other side (no drawers, though). - peninsula with MW drawer, facing either the sink or fridge (depending on if you are willing to give up a bit of counter). I didn't make a space for a trash pull-out (but neither did you). Several here have out a trash pullout under the sink....See MoreNew Layouts- Calling all layout experts!!
Comments (49)First, with the traffic pattern you describe:  Main entrance downstairs & coming up the stairs on the left Yes. The Âside staircase is only for for easier access to trash and to let the dog out.  Side entrance (directly off kitchen) not used much o See above  You want two entrances into the kitchen, one by the bedrooms & one from the LR/DR end o Correct. o  Entrance to MBR, if in kitchen would not be main access to it (but, it looks like it would be the only access in most plans...) o That is the only MBR entrance. We are toying with the idea of moving the entrance to the main hallway, thus taken some space from the Guest Room. IF this does not happen then we will need a 5 wall coming off the West wall to shield the entrance to the MBR. This wall is currently in the kitchen today. If we go with the 5 wall the west wall will be approx 11Â6. Other points...  You want some seating o Yes, at least 4 at the peninsula. The peninsula Âoverhang is being taken out of the dinning roomÂs space. I would like some island seating  You don't need or necessarily care about windows on the right wall of the kitchen b/c of the skylights & wall of windows in the DR o We are planning on windows on the longer part of the east wall.  The outside stairs should be at least 30" wide, preferably 36" (room for carrying things up/down the stairs like trash) o IÂm not sure what the dimensions of the staircase will be.  Small deck should be at least 36" wide for maneuvering room (door not a "straight shot" down the stairs, you have to turn to go down...) o I am not sure the size of the current deck I would guess about 48Â. The current stairs and deck will be completely rebuilt. Let me get this straight (so I understand what's going on)....  Layout A (14' north wall): o There will be a hall on the west side of the kitchen - YES o North wall ends where the outside stairs begin - YES o No pantry on the east wall  Yes, shallow pantry on West Wall o Entire length of kitchen is 2' + 3' + 8' + 1'6" (overhang on peninsula) = 14'6" YES- 3 feet is being taken from the kitchen and given to he Master in order to create a door that is not in the kitchen. o Entire width of kitchen is 14' (but, measurements = 1'6" + 3' + 8' = 12'6" OR 1'6" + 3' + 4' + 3' + 2' = 13'6") Width of kitchen is approx 14  Layout B (16' north wall): o There will be a hall on the west side of the kitchen Yes o No pantry on the east wall ÂCorrect. There will be a shallow pantry on the west wall o North wall extends to in front of the stairs (stated dimensions indicate only another 2', but I think it will be closer to 30"...36" deck - 6" exterior wall = 30" interior space. Also, drawing seems to show 27" freezer not the same width...if you have a 33" deck, that would seem correct ï§ Currently north wall extends 2Â2 in front of stairs. I know it sounds weird, but that is what it currently it. o Entire length of......See MoreRough layout -- please critique?
Comments (16)dadereni, the doors lead out to a sizeable covered porch area shared with a guest cottage/wing. Our fireplace will be on the wall of the cottage, opposite the gaggle of kitchen doors. Originally we were thinking of having a folding or lift-and-slide system here but it didn't really fit with the rest of the house -- the french doors are cohesive with the rear elevation. I think we will keep the middle two doors open when we are using the porch area. We also wanted to have the option of opening the two flanking doors instead, if, for example, we wanted temporarily to put a table up against the middle set of doors. Maybe this is just trying to be too cute? Here is where I think we are headed on the rough layout, thanks to the comments so far. blfenton and others, where would you suggest putting the trash/recycling in this setup? Trash to the right of the prep/pot sink and recycling down on the refrigerator/microwave wall? dadereni and others, do you have any suggestions how I might get a few extra inches around the table? The kitchen is a smidge over 16' on the interior. We could get a narrower table, get a shorter table, or push the table off-center from the pass through. We also might steal a few inches from the pass through but I suspect that might be too complicated. rosie -- The eye contact thing is hard for me when I am prepping. My knife skills are not the best, and more than once I've cut my fingers when distracted. This has made me very careful about keeping my eyes on my work when there's a knife involved. I am able to stir and talk at the same time, though! Thank you all!...See MoreI need your expert layout advice!
Comments (13)i think you ought to live there for a period of time... and decide if the investment will repay itself .... it looks like you want to put a very expensive kitchen in a two bedroom house ... when you will need a 3 bedroom house in the future ... unless there is a second level i am unaware of ... you clearly stated: We will not put in this new kitchen unless we do decide to make this our forever home. until you make that decision.. its not worth putting 10 or 20 thousand dollars into remaking this a 2 bedroom house.. with a designer kitchen ... you may never recoup your investment .... my best suggestion... first.. keep dreaming .. if nothing else.. this little dream kitchen.. is part of the next house ... but right now ... figure out if the neighborhood is kid friendly.. including schools.. traffic.. neighbors .... etc ... if in a year or two... you decide to stay.. that is when you decide to gut half the house.. and build your dream kitchen ... you dont mention if the 2 kids are of the same gender ... but mine finally made the teens.. i can not contemplate such in one bedroom ... even if they were of the same species ... think about it... boy/girl.. i dont think so ... teen girl/girl ... good luck with that. .. two boys.. hmmmm... depends on the boys ... try not to get caught up.. in the possibilities of peeps who have 4000 sq foot houses.. and unlimited budgets ... been there.. done that ... its wasnt my reality .... live there.. enjoy life.. dream about that kitchen.. and when you can move.. make sure the next place.. has a better kitchen to start with ... i wish you luck with the babe ... the toddler.. and the new house ... and never lose your dreams [which sorta happened when mine turned teenagers.. lol] ken ps: maybe in a few years you can bump up.. for a master bedroom up.. and that kitchen out back ...[you dont mention if there is a basement either].... but not if the neighborhood cant handle it.. you NEVER want to end up.. with the best house on the block ... you will never be able to sell it ... in the sense of recouping your investment ......See MoreRelated Professionals
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8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoI found your other thread, in which you say you are open to considering other ideas, so I'll post a few. I can't speak to the issue of having the vent hood installed above the windows, but I'd consider moving the cooktop to the other window, with the clean-up zone on the short wall. That would allow you to have a clean-up zone separate from the cooking and prepping zones--a helper would be able to load and unload the DW, and gather dishes to set the table, without entering your work zones. I'd put a glass door dish hutch on the corner, with extra dish storage in drawers across the aisle, on the island. Or, you could also have a glass door on the upper to the left, and store dishes there.
I drew a trash pull-out on the end, since that cabinet would be very narrow for drawers, but it could be a door cabinet to store large platters and trays on the vertical. A 30"-36" tall upper cabinet could be used there, to store larger serving pieces (or table cloth, placemats, napkins, or schools supplies if kids do homework on that table), but turned to open toward the nook (red lines).
If you keep the separate fridge with freezer drawers, I'd suggest moving them as far left as possible, and just keep a small triangle for the chargers and mail drop. The cabinets above the freezer drawers could then be taken to the counter, for use as a pantry. I left them at 12" deep, but they could be 15" or 18" deep, to increase storage.
jesslake thanked mama goose_gw zn6OH
8 years agoAnglophilia recommended one-kings road. This photo from their reminded me of yours.
jesslake thanked practigal- 8 years ago
practigal's, cpartist's, and designsaavy's suggestions combined--a 36" fridge, moved to the end, and the cooktop and hood beside the window, with a longer island:
jesslake thanked mama goose_gw zn6OH - 8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago
- 8 years ago
cpartist