Jenny! You have to look at this neo-colonial renovation. It looks so similar to your house and they used a cantilevered addition. The kitchen layout is awful, but the size is fantastic! https://www.flickr.com/photos/18877550@N05/sets/72157626074897333/

a not so big addition - the kitchen · More Info

I don't think Laughable's suggestion of a cantilevered addition got enough consideration. To have a true island you can walk around, you need a minimum of 12'9" from the vent-filled-wall, so you need a minimum 1'5" of cantilevered addition space toward the back yard.

Here's some more info about cantilevered additions so you can see why it's a cheaper option than a full flown addition. They mention that these are popular with "neo-colonial" floorplans, which I think describes your house? : [https://www.houzz.com/magazine/micro-additions-when-you-just-want-a-little-more-room-stsetivw-vs~1165961[(https://www.houzz.com/magazine/micro-additions-when-you-just-want-a-little-more-room-stsetivw-vs~1165961)

Montlake · More Info

Another "bump out" example:

More views, with the "away room" in place.

View from kitchen:

The kitchen is very similar to what Sena drew up way back near the beginning of this thread. I kind of like where she put the fridge, so if you like this idea, be sure to look back and see how she drew it up. : )

Of all the layouts within this existing footprint, the peninsula between front room and kitchen is my favorite. Especially with the split lockers in the family room. Super functional with every square foot given a purpose. To fit four people at the counter, there needs to be an overhang on the range side.

Lyfia and Laughable's drawings...

I agree with having a true island with cantilever bump out. Also my favorite. The next choice is the peninsula above but I would make it a bit deeper.

This peninsula plan, you might be able to get narrow pantry cabinets along the back wall behind table. Such great flow, complete openess and great for entertaining! You would keep your 2 car garage! Not as expensive of a reno either.

Just one more point I want to add:

I have lived in two open concept homes. This is the best use of space to give you the openness you desire. Your original plan is more chopped up because the kitchen and family room aren't connected at all.

I tried to play around with this yesterday in the ikea planner and about lost my mind. I drew in what I consider the minimum dimensions for comfortable seating, walkways, etc. Was thinking that at 11'5" deep, there might be enough space for a shallow depth pantry and kid storage locker combo along that vent and powder room wall.

I don't like that seat right by the stove

i understand. she requires counter seating for at least four and the peninsula cant be longer than 81 inches. cant think of another arrangement to fit the constraints.

if the living room side overhang protrudes into the living room, there's approx 75 inches between peninsula and the sink run of cabs. she likes a chunky counter height space, but if the base cabinet was removed that distance would increase +24".

I had the peninsula like this.

Sorry, looks like my lengths/widths got mixed up for the single seat. I thinkk there's enough room w/o a seat on the range side.

smart. In my mind's eye, I wasn't seeing the end seat offset like that. I think maximizing the 81" would be best. 72 inches for three teenage boys is tight. Or could you fit four people more comfortably if the end is curved/ semicircle?

I asked about a cantilevered addition for my kitchen, and my gc told me they were way more expensive you would think (roof lines, joists, etc). I think they would be a budget buster, as we also had about a 100k renovation.

Doesn't hurt to ask though, my_four_sons. Just two feet across the back would change everything for this kitchen. Were you also considering a 2 feet cantilever on a two story house? Another GW thread from three years ago said it was just an additional 5K, even with inflation that's not necessarily a budget buster at this price point.

5k isn't bad. We paid about $7800 to move a non structural wall and add two windows. If we had space in back for the cantilever we probably would have chosen that rather than taking the space from the inside. But we are on a slab

I'm loving this design - thank you! I need to ask our HOA/city/builder about a cantilever. We have a meeting next week after Christmas. Here's my question right now - that peninsula/island - it's the opposite side of my designer's current plan, but isn't the walkway space about the same?

No this is more open than yours. Consider moving from garage to kitchen with bags of groceries, serving from cooktop to table, etc There is no island sticking into the space obstructing traffic patterns. Imagine sitting in family room and grabbing a quick soda from fridge in this plan vs yours. Mentally go through the various steps you take to do any kitchen related task. Imagine entertaining and having people other than you in the kitchen at once moving about and getting in the way

And your plan's island spills into the family room in such a way that you can't have a tv in that corner or a sectional. The peninsula plan lets you have open connection from family room and kitchen. Great for a family and for entertaining.

Wonderful!

To answer your question, yes, the walkway is about the same size. There are disadvantages to the designer's plan, however. Her (?) plan has everyone walking through the work zone whenever they are traveling between the kitchen and living room. This is a disaster waiting to happen at the worst, and majorly annoying when you are trying to cook, at best. People will be walking through your path from the counter to the stove while you are trying to get work done.

Keeping the peninsula on the outside wall protects the work zone. Protecting the work zone is very important. Picture needing to set down a hot tray of cookies, and crossing the walkway while a kid is flying around the corner, moving so quickly you don't have time to react. The designer kitchen could land a kid in the emergency room with burns. The outside wall peninsula is a quick turn and set the trays on the peninsula, no burned kid.

Also, the outside wall peninsula does not overtake the front room, while the designer kitchen gobbles up precious space where it truly doesn't belong. You need that living room space for living, not for storing things and floating 2 chairs.

The outside peninsula places everyone in a conversational way for seating. The designer peninsula puts folks with a giant barrier between them where the wall of ducts live.

Regarding the comparison of the outside peninsula and the cantilevered island plan: The cantilevered island plan is nearly identical to our kitchen plan. While I like it, I don't necessarily love it. I find it awkward to have the fridge next to the DW, and resent having to loop around the island to go from the working side of the island to the fridge. It doesn't flow as naturally as I'd like. Form wise, it's great ("pretty.") Function leaves a little to be desired.

While on vacation we stayed at a cottage with a kitchen that was very similar to the outside wall peninsula plan. There were 13 of us, and it worked so well. I loved being a half turn from the stove to the peninsula. I could cook a the stove and still interact with people at the bar stools. When cooking in my own kitchen with people at the island, my back is to them when I'm at the stove. Conversation is almost impossible.

People end up in my 4' aisles all the time, and it gets crowded. The peninsula on vacation was like the velvet ropes at the bank: it told non cooks to stay "over there." Marvelous!

But, you'll have to decide what works best for your function and budget needs. :-)

Jenny, it's amazing what you can get used to and just suffer through to make it work. It's eye opening to have a truly functional beautiful kitchen. I didn't realize how inefficient my own kitchen was until people here ripped apart my plan. Before demo I started paying more attention. I was running all over the kitchen to do basic things. I did end up with a barrier island in the way, but widened aisles and created zones so that most of the prep and cooking zones are efficient. My only problem was not being able to get fridge closer to sink (space constraints and slab foundation) but everything else I meticulously planned will make things super efficient. Can't wait til it's done!

I'm so glad you seem to have found something you like that also makes your house a huge improvement not only for your family, but should work very well for re-sale too so you're not just spending money and won't see a big improvement.

And as laughablemoments explained in much more detail. The walkway is the same size, however it is now only a walkway and not part of the working areas of the kitchen and thus doesn't interfere with the cooks work and thus no different than a regular doorway you pass through.

This space will allow more than one person to do things in the kitchen too without bumping into each other by having to walk around an object.

Go, Team!

I've been on here over 5 yrs and have seen magic happen from those on here. turning the disaster drawn up by architects and KDs into awesome livable areas. Some of the worst kitchens are drawn up by architects - and by some who call themselves a KD. We have some great people on here when it comes to putting a good functional kitchen together.

the 1st design posted has an island that looks to be a barrier to life in general. But, it seems to be developing into very livable spaces now.

Ok, so I know I'm getting a little ahead of myself - but decorating is the fun part. ha! ;) This just came across my FB newsfeed. I just think it's so unique and gorgeous....and I LOVE tufting. Any chance it would fit anywhere?

http://www.zgallerie.com/p-18763-circa-sectional-3-piece.aspx

Look at the dimensions. I think you'd need a McMansion to hold that couch.

If you love tufting, just get tufts on the back cushions. Tufts in seat cushions and children probably don't mix well.

Are you wanting a sectional for the front room with the goal to seat as many people as possible? We can help estimate the best size for you.

A curved sectional takes up a lot of space. Why not do 4 tufted club chairs in the back retreat around the fireplace with a pretty chandelier in the middle and round coffee table

You could get the loveseat portion of that sofa and use with 2 chairs for the retreat room (ie your old family room)

Or 2 love seats facing each other. I only looked quickly but seemed like there was a love seat available

Jenny - I was just thinking of your home. I think you have/had a meeting this week? Just wanted to say,.. stay the course, Sister! I fear that giant (obstacle) attached island plan is going to lure you back in. Haha! Please post a comment if you need to talk through details and options.

She is working on revisions and getting them back to me! I'm going over little details to give to her before presenting it. We are still going to do cabinets/buffet area along one wall with upper glass cabinets ( I love that look). I need to let her know if I want it to bump out to 15" in the middle or keep it all at 12". I can't decide! I think it gives maybe more definition when it's bumped out in the middle, but I also like the idea of having even more open/walking space when keeping it all at 12". It's only 3" though.

In the new island we are going to try to keep the 24" under counter paneled fridge and 15" wine cooler, with some drawers inbetween them to seperate them. Do I have them both open to the right/left, or I was thinking have them open towards each other?

Jenny it would depend on the overall layout and configuration. Can you post which layout you are referring to? Sometime 3" makes a huge difference.

Same for island. Depends on where it is situated in relation to other things.

We are planning on doing a smaller island coming out by the range/cook area along that side wall of the house, kitchen table in the back of the house, and doing more cabinets/hutch area on the other side of the "vent wall", similar to the original design.

Right now we have regular base cabinets and drawers in the middle planned. She just mentioned that if we DON'T do the bump out that 12" is not very big/deep and not very practical.

12" deep drawers are prob useless

How wide is your dining table? Clear floor space/ walkway width around the table should dictate the buffet design.

Your dining room is doubling as a hallway between the front room and kitchen to the other side of the house. With 6 people plus guests, you should be very mindful of circulation through the space.

I look forward to seeing the revised drawing!

12" deep can be useful depending on what you want to store in that spot. It would work well as shelves, but not as drawers. I recommend pulling the actual items out that you think you'll store there and measure, measure, measure. Set up an example walking course, placing something in the space that sticks out 15" into the walkway, and 12" into the walkway and see if you can feel a difference. Get a few kids to act out being in a hurry and trying to get by. Now, how about if someone is sitting in a chair. It sounds goofy, but you'll be happier in the end if you've thought these things through ahead of time.

12" deep cabinet is going to get you approx 10.5 or 11" deep shelves. As a base, that seems useless as you would prob want the upper section shallower than base. I don't think you'll get the look you want.

I would skip glass hutch and make that a wall of shallow 12" deep pantry cabinets

For perspective here is what a 14" deep cabinet looks like (the long part of the L) the short part is approx 8" deep

How about 12" deep pantries, and then doing some glass uppers in the kitchen area?

Jenny curious if you received an updated plan from designer?

I did! I'm going to keep you all in suspense and surprise you with after pictures when it's done. I think you'll love it too. :) Just picking out little details now, but the design is now much better, thanks to all your help.

Oh Jenny, you are leaving us hanging???!!!! I promise we won't rip it apart if you don't want us to :) Best of luck on your reno.

Haha! I know.....so mean. It will be fun though, promise! I've received oodles of help and suggestions and I'm so appreciative, so now I need to move forward and make it my own and will update you with a surprise reveal when it's all done! :)

No worries. Please post here if you need anything along the way :)

When it's done, could you post a link to the reveal in this thread? I don't want to miss it. ; )

Jenny, any updates?

Jenny- I'd love to see a reveal if you're up for it.