Which is one of the reasons we need to stop playing defense on issues that distract from how abnormal all of this is. The focus should move to Trump and relentlessly stay there.

How about this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/us/alt-right-salutes-donald-trump.html

...In 11 hours of speeches and panel discussions in a federal building named after Ronald Reagan a few blocks from the White House, a succession of speakers had laid out a harsh vision for the future, but had denounced violence and said that Hispanic citizens and black Americans had nothing to fear. Earlier in the day, Mr. Spencer himself had urged the group to start acting less like an underground organization and more like the establishment.

But now his tone changed as he began to tell the audience of more than 200 people, mostly young men, what they had been waiting to hear. He railed against Jews and, with a smile, quoted Nazi propaganda in the original German. America, he said, belonged to white people, whom he called the “children of the sun,” a race of conquerors and creators who had been marginalized but now, in the era of President-elect Donald J. Trump, were “awakening to their own identity.”

As he finished, several audience members had their arms outstretched in a Nazi salute. When Mr. Spencer, or perhaps another person standing near him at the front of the room — it was not clear who — shouted, “Heil the people! Heil victory,” the room shouted it back...

...For the alt-right, the most exciting thing about Mr. Trump was that he built a campaign around the issues that mattered most to them, and that white people had voted for him in numbers that left the political establishments of both parties stunned. Now, Mr. Spencer said, it is up to the alt-right to formulate the ideas and policies to guide the new administration.

“I think we can be the ones out in front, thinking about those things he hasn’t quite grasped yet, who are putting forward policies,” Mr. Spencer said, that “have a realistic chance of being implemented.”

Trump won the white vote in every demographic, even the youth vote.

You can't stop the inevitable. We've known for two decades that whites would be in the minority by mid-century. If that bothers you, you need to work on yourself and how you think about people who don't look and speak just like you.

You can't stop the inevitable. We've known for two decades that whites would be in the minority by mid-century. If that bothers you, you need to work on yourself and how you think about people who don't look and speak just like you.

Truth.

How about dealing with it by learning another language? Becoming interested in another culture and discovering traditions that perhaps might add some joy to your own existence? Talk to people. Admire their ability to speak two (or more) languages (when you can only speak English) instead of mocking their accents. Stop letting fear make you more and more insular. That's not going to do you one bit of good in the long run. Embrace what's happening. It's been a long time coming, and in my opinion, it's about time.

Wouldn't it be beautiful, Ida? That's why I don't understand why people listen to the drumbeat of fear coming from right wing media. Fear puts power in the wrong hands.

And for the love of all that is holy, stop repeating this sickening mantra! If having to press a number on a keypad is such a terrible burden in your life, then I suggest you fall to your knees and give thanks for having been spared from all of the truly loathsome events that have never happened to you.

IdaClaire, just today one of my favorite blogs has a column on how acquiring a foreign language opens your eyes as well as your ears. (I also appreciate other English language news programs like France 24, Africa Today, Al Jazeerah, and--gasp--RT. Whatever their bent may be, I hear a point of view that I wouldn't otherwise hear.) I should take this a step closer to home and read the local papers from the states that voted differently than mine.

Having another language can burst your bubble

How many Carrier employees took the job offer when the co was moving

to Monterey? There were offers.

Why didn't Pense do his job and insist that UT retrain the employees they

were letting go?

Why was Bush not held accountable for the 2,000 plus people killed in the world trade center? Hillary was held responsible for Benghazi?

Would someone please tell us why so many people in the US could believe the lies touted by trump?

the jobs are not coming back.

the corporations are not bringing the money back.

The US is better off than it was 8 years ago.

if you don't want a Mexican ford then buy American. Hyundais are

made in Alabama. They employ lots of folks. Folks who are glad to have a job that pays a living wage.

Good article, bpathome. I'm also enjoying the site linked in that article, Words Without Borders. Very interesting stuff indeed!

Do you all ever think about possibly expending your energies somewhere other than here to actually do good for someone in need rather than continuing to criticize others and talk about who's out to screw someone else over? Seems like a lot of time and energy here that doesn't really help anyone who's in need. I understand the need to vent and the desire to debate the issues but at some point it seems like enough is enough and it's time to move on and do something more productive. I can't imagine living with what sounds like a lot of anger and bitterness and usually doing something good for someone else makes you feel more positive.

Just a thought.....

I think all of us lead full lives so don't worry about us.

3katz4me, since you really don't know us or the extent to which we actually do expend our energies elsewhere, please don't patronize. As this is a discussion forum, I believe we're utilizing this place for its intended purpose and you are welcome to scroll past threads that hold no interest for you. You may mean well, but it's not your place to determine when others are done with a discussion - particularly one involving an event that has the whole world watching.

I for one will NOT be using the new "alt-right" label. "Extremist far right winger" and "white nationalist" is still appropriate terminology. Actually "white nationalist" as been their own preferred terminolgy as of about 10-20 yrs ago - people were calling them "white supremacists" and they didnt like that. "Alt right" is just clever rebranding to capture the new influx of naive people who arent quite ready to sign on to full blown "white nationalism" but could get on board with rounding up millions of people and transporting them... well, wherever .... and putting other millions onto registries according to their religion. Since there's no genetic test for religion not sure how exactly they propose to identify who goes on the registry.

Okay - enjoy!

I agree about resisting rebranding racists with the alt-right label; it's allowing them to hide under a "watered down" label. I'm using "alt-white supremacists" instead. Nationalists sounds too respectable, even though if you know what it means, it's not.

THIS I find frightening: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/a-defiant-trump-meets-the-tv-news-crowd-in-private--and-lets-them-have-it/2016/11/21/17a9e418-b040-11e6-840f-e3ebab6bcdd3_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumpmedia-830pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Whose truth are we talking about? What DT twitters about? Editorials debating what he says or tweets? We all need to fight for a free, independent press- otherwise, kiss this country goodbye. Of note, he has tweeted nothing about the "alt right" (ha, ha new name, same agenda) response to his election. So, should the press ONLY report good things that he says? Pence had the mature response: "this is what freedom looks like".

"Since there's no genetic test for religion not sure how exactly they
propose to identify who goes on the registry." I'm hoping a movement
will grow among progressives and other decent people to register on any
list the gov't comes up with to try to separate out people. If we can
get 30 million people to register as Muslims or gay or whatever they try
to do, it will really mess with their ability to target groups.

Maddie, that may be one of the most frightening reports yet.

I'm not sure about posting this, but here goes: I spent a couple of weeks in Germany recently. I was terrified by the similarities of WWII (and its roots and what fed it) to what is happening in this country. I'll stop here because this sounds crazy, but the people I traveled with had the same reaction. Once we lose the press, or someone tries to "own" it, we're toast. Everyone has to fight for an independent press. That dt tried to cower or disparage the press as discussed in the article I referenced is frightening to me.

I totally agree with you maddie. It is scary.

As far as the "alt right", aren't these the same people who insist that we call ISIS Islamic terrorists? Insisting that we have to "name" them. I say we have to "name" white supremacists according to their actions and rhetoric, and not let them "rebrand" themselves.

Maddie, I have had exactly this on my mind all day today (the press). How do we balance responsible journalism at a time when there is a concern of censorship?

NYT version of this:http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/business/media/trump-summons-tv-figures-for-private-meeting-and-lets-them-have-it.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Hopefully I'm not overly optimistic or misguided but experience in my own lifetime has shown that the press usually MORE than rises to the occasion when a president attacks or tries to muzzle freedom of expression. I was a teenager during Nixon's tenure and still recall the ferocious battles waged by the Washington Post, New York Times and others against his and his administration's efforts to throttle their reporting. It's precisely when or if freedoms and rights are threatened people and groups realize the need to take action to resist.

We shall see what happens, it's still early days and hopefully the incoming administration and President Trump will not try to shut down or impinge on the rights of freedom of expression that are the hallmark of being a US citizen, no matter what is said. Then too, the Trump administration hasn't even taken power yet; I suspect there will be many, many news stories to be covered about changes in policy and government and yes, probably, the president's family, business dealings, criticism and his reaction and so on.

Even hate speech is protected, so the sunshine-is-the-best-disinfectant approach of sharing footage of a bunch of fools trying to bring back the Aryan nation is an encouraging sign--far better than ignoring it or being intimidated into NOT showing it to everyone.

Trump vented about media coverage, according to sources who spoke on the condition of anonymity. He was highly critical of CNN and other news organizations.

But while Trump showed disdain for the news media, he also answered questions; listened to the journalists' arguments about the importance of access; and committed to making improvements.

A source in the room told CNNMoney that there was "real progress" made with regards to media access to Trump and his administration.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/21/media/donald-trump-meeting-tv-networks/index.html

****

Attorney General Eric Holder has said that he doesn’t want the Obama administration’s leak prosecutions “to be his legacy.” But he has also trumpeted the cases—six and counting—in response to criticism from Senate Republicans. “We have tried more leak cases—brought more leak cases during the course of this administration than any other administration,” Holder said before the Senate Judiciary Committee last year.

This shouldn’t be a source of pride, even the fake point-scoring kind. In light of the Justice Department’s outrageously broad grab of the phone records of reporters and editors at the Associated Press, the administration’s unprecedented criminalizing of leaks has become embarrassing. This is not what Obama’s supporters thought they were getting. Obama the candidate strongly supported civil liberties and protections for whistle-blowers. Obama the president risks making government intrusion into the investigative work of the press a galling part of his legacy.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2013/05/obama_s_justice_department_holder_s_leak_investigations_are_outrageous_and.html

*********

Critics on both the left and the right are lambasting President Obama for his ongoing policies restricting the freedom of the press, ostensibly in favor of national security, which in some cases amount to a vendetta against reporters who publish what leakers leak, rather than just going after what the leakers have done themselves. “The Obama administration’s unprecedented pursuit of criminal liability against security leakers threatens to rope in the Fourth Estate,” wrote Stanford’s Jennifer Granick and Morgan Weiland for Forbes. (Weiland used to work for the far-left Media Matters.) “The message? Don’t report national security stories or you will become a target.”

http://www.aim.org/special-report/president-obamas-war-on-journalists/

***********

Few presidential candidates enjoyed better news coverage than Barack Obama in 2008. He promised unprecedented “openness in government” and a new era of transparency.

He appears to have fallen far short of the promise. This administration has prosecuted more whistle-blowers for leaks and gone after more journalists than any of its predecessors.

In a report last year, Leonard Downie Jr., the former executive editor of The Washington Post, said the administration’s efforts to crack down on information seeping to journalists were “the most aggressive” since President Richard Nixon was in office.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/09/us/politics/under-obama-a-chill-on-press-freedom.html

A source in the room told CNNMoney that there was "real progress" made with regards to media access to Trump and his administration.

Also in attendance:

Fox News co-presidents Bill Shine and Jack Abernethy

We are where we are today because of the way the press reports and manipulates the facts.

Slowly but surely, the journalists realized that they could possibly control the outcome by slanting the truth.

If you were in power, and was treated unfairly, would you then trust those same people? NY Times has fallen from grace. It's unfortunate, but true.

I look forward to a time when facts are reported truthfully. Opinions can go on the editorial page.

I do hope Trump delivers. We are in for a very long four years. Everything little move will be scrutinized/speculated.

The "white supremacists" are so incredibly pathetic. They're the ignoramus, inbred cousins of the Westboro Baptist Church and it makes my heart sing with joy to read about events such as recently took place in Austin. A handful of these morons - and by handful, I mean 20 to 24, took to the streets to stage a "White Lives Matter" protest. They were met by a group of counter-protestors that numbered between 300-400.

Speak up, speak out, speak loudly. We will drown out their hateful little mewls.

Delivers what, exactly? His infrastructure scheme is already being exposed as a boondoggle to funnel our nation's treasury into the pockets of private investors & developers, rather than actually build the things we need. The draining of the "swamp" apparently just means swapping out the old monsters w/ different ones. Draining the US treasury appears to be the true goal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/12/02/the-u-s-economy-does-better-under-democratic-presidents-is-it-just-luck/

Original paper:
https://www.princeton.edu/~mwatson/papers/Presidents_Blinder_Watson_Nov2013.pd

& I just can't get over he comments here & elsewhere that somehow the voters will hold this freak accountable! How? By writing their representatives? What do these folks think they can realistically do?

We've never elected a truly narcissistic president before so we're in for a wild ride. Don't believe for a minute that his beef with the press is that it's untruthful. His problem with the press is that they print unflattering (truthful) articles and photos of him. He's shown us all along that this trivial stuff preoccupies him. He wants the respect that Obama earned but he'll never get that. He should go on Hannity ASAP if he needs to be flattered.

"Slowly but surely, the journalists realized that they could possibly control the outcome by slanting the truth."

I think I'd be more inclined to believe this if Donald Trump hadn't been elected president ;)

Trump has only just become the president elect. I and others recognized much of Trumps content at his rallies for what it was, a way to rile a base who maybe might not have voted at all but for him. This is nothing new in the world of politics.

Don't forget Trump has been a Democrat and a Republican. When I was reading up on him it was clear that the man is obsessed with winning. Yes he has faults like most humans. I think he is going to lead mostly from the center.

He is reaching across the isle in his interviewing for positions and that includes men and women and people of color. He did campaign in black neighborhoods and black churches and places Hillary didn't go.

He wants to make things better for everyone. I don't like all his picks so far but none are set in stone at this time.

Its only been two weeks. We do need to shun those small pockets of nutty white supremacists and their swastika's who have always been there but are for some reason getting lots of liberal press time all of a sudden.

We do need to give it all some time.

The Dow is up the S&P is up Naz is up.

Maybe just maybe things will get better for all with several tweaks.

If not, then we can b!t€h.

He's certainly reached across the aisle to the Clintons!

These
discussions are very troubling.

Honestly,
you people sound so anti-American and anti-white. Good grief. How can
you wonder why you've incited a counter movement. Really, any white
person who worries about their livelihood and the state of the
country is a White Supremist? (According to 'the news' White
Supremists are a fringe group of about 300-400 - in a country of
325,000,000 people).

How
much of a doormat do you expect this generous and welcoming diverse
country to be.

It
strikes me that good ole America and its awful 'white people'
are totally un-appreciated.

You
see suggestions of 'white identity'! -- Interestingly maligned and
forbidden, in a sea of other 'valid' identities and crises.

'White
Lives Matter' sounds to me like 'What About Us' - not anything more.
Liberals still aren't listening. Your filters need to be changed.
You believe that anyone who has a different perspective or situation
is somehow evil, racist, sexist, xenophobic, insensitive, stupid if they dare try to have a
voice in having their own needs met.

This
is a despicable treatment, oppression and blatant dismissal of
our country's struggling 'white' Americans. I can not grasp why
people believe 'white' lives don't matter. Everyone
matters (their point) and liberals need to get that through their heads and stop
with all the counterproductive, un-American segregation of America's people
into various groups. You're pitting them against each other and leaving people out.

Liberals
identity-politics and il-liberalism is killing the free world. They
have moved so far left, it is bordering on communism (per liberal
social scientists, who have moved out, progressed away from you). You are alienating the
world and destroying democracy.

To
me, you people look like an anti-American, anti-white hate group
spewing propaganda against a good and generous country and people. Your intent appears to be to create a lot of
hysteria and racial upheaval.

Truth:
All 'those white people' voted for an outsider, a
non-politician, a change in
Washington!

Continue
on with your never-ending deplorables rhetoric, but I really don't
think you can beat racial tensions and discrimination by being
racist.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Haidt‏, Ph.D., Social Scientist, NYU

Haidt's research data shows that this freight train started barreling towards us a long, long time ago. It's not whitelash and he states that neither Bush or Obama could have stopped it.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_can_a_divided_america_heal?

Nov 18

'Mark Lilla essay is best thing I've read all week: "the age of identity liberalism must be brought to an end'

He wanted to tweet every paragraph.

Nov 9

'Democrats, please: Do not respond by doubling down on identity politics. That is poison in a multi-ethnic democracy.'

snookums, they want it to be true SO BAD that they talk about it constantly-hoping it will! I SMH at so much they write!

"White
Lives Matter' sounds to me like 'What About Us' - not anything more."

White lives have mattered more than any other group in this country forever...take a look at ANY system, ANY power structure, from gov't to business, industry, religious institutions, education systems, politics, police, EVERYTHING is owned and controlled by white people and slanted with a white, male view of existence. When other groups ask for recognition as also being important, or even for inclusion, white people feel their power/control of EVERYTHING (or actually ANYTHING) threatened and start whining "What about us?" EVERYTHING is already about US! Give me a break.

My goodness, Snookums - try to calm down a bit, will you? "You people ..." That's pretty much a phrase that effectively shuts eyes and ears from wanting to know anything further that you have to expand on.

Olychick, I don't need to add another thing to what you've said, because you said it so perfectly. White privilege is very, very real and it's sickening.

Beagles -- with your hypothetical, I really REALLY would have voted for Gary Johnson.

I like the term "Mixed Bunding" America, it's in the middle where we meet all together and = Super Americans.

No more individual specialized people bundles or individual trademark people bundles or generic people's getting lost in the shuffle or who is or isn't more deserving. No more bringing up race. One refers to Americans as a product of America. You then need to Qualify for one of the three groups. Skin color doesn't count. There will be productive competition for the betterment of all.

Qualifying for three groups? Where did you get this idea?

And no one is forced to learn English or give up their culture so whites can feel comfortable around them, right?

The truth is we like who we are and you like who you are so why should either of us change to make the other happy?

What is "productive competition for the betterment of all"? What are you talking about?

Who knows.

Mayflowers, I'm trying to get people to stop seeing race and find things they have in common.

What do you mean who knows? Can you only have negative thoughts?

I can't have any thoughts because I don't understand a thing you wrote.

Jt really, what does that statement mean? What are the three groups and what qualifies you for one of them?

Talk about a word salad.

Do you mean like there is not a liberal America and a conservative America - there is the United States of America? There is not a black America and a white America and Latino America and Asian America - there's the United States of America?

Bears repeating ... nationalism is not patriotism.

THIS says it all for me: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/23/opinion/no-trump-we-cant-just-get-along.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0

I can understand folks who have conservative politics and different ideologies about a whole vast array of things. But when I see folks disregarding the Constitution and even arguing that it is an unnecessary burden to be pushed aside for their personal benefit, or "it doesn't apply", well that's the moral problem I have. If you won't even CONSIDER a Supreme Court nomination by another party, and want to wait out the election until you have the votes, well why would we ever, ever even need a Supreme Court? The Democrats could just as easily say they won't confirm a Supreme Court judge until after the next election, and ad nauseum. And the idea that Supreme Court judges are purely political and don't have to abide by precedent and the Constitution, that it is just "us against them and whomever has the votes of the moment wins" is an anathema to what the US is supposed to be, a republic where laws and principles are supposed to govern. Sorry, but if you are a "rules don't need to apply to me" person of any ilk, I would find you dangerous. Also, I have looked into HC's "crimes" and they are just petty political stuff, any other candidate has done similar things or even DT's crimes, just don't stick to him, and yet some petty mishandling of e-mail is such a huge crime as to equate her with Anthony Weiner? Yes, folks in Libya were killed at the US embassy. NOT the first time US citizens working for the Army administration or State Department have been killed in the line of duty, and yet I haven't seen other Secretaries of State pilloried for that kind of thing, nor directors of the Army, etc. I just don't think this kind of extremism in our society in general (yes I know DT's supporters aren't the only ones doing it) is going to bode well for us in the long run to solve the kinds of serious problems we have with our economy. And I haven't heard any really good suggestions from either party on that. The old ways won't work. Divide and conquer is one way to rule, but it isn't the only way.

Edited to add that I work in academia and if you think it is all hearts and flowers among colleagues, no matter what their political persuasion, guess again. Academics tend to be critical of each other because they get paid to be the smartest person in the room. So imagine a group of them in a meeting . . . If you can't get used to that kind of atmosphere, you probably won't last in academia, no matter what institution you work for. Some places are less acrimonious than others. But "spirited debate" of various viewpoints is the bread and butter of academic life.