Thank you all: The most extreme (by far) chlorosis I'm seeing is on the 9th leaf Freedom tree, the rest are 3rd - 4th leaf now. I'm such a dope for not getting pic.s of the chlorosis symptoms but here is what I (REMEMBER) seeing - the cluster leaves never show any, it begins following fruit set on the new shoots (only I think) and continues on the new growth up until about mid Summer then ceases on the new growth as it peters out, it starts up again around harvest time and remains until leaf fall. I realize this may have some scratching their heads, my observations and recollections have been sub par and may therefore not make much sense. The leaves on a shoot appear destined to remain chlorotic once they have formed and never recover. I'll do a very good job this year of observation and documentation if it kills me, this is embarrassing. Fruitnut: aint our soils just dandy! My math, for what it's worth. 2.8% = 0.028, an a.f.s. of soil = 2,000,000 lbs. therefore 0.028 x 2M = 56k lb. of lime in the a.f.s.. I was aiming for a foot deep so we'll go 56k x 2 = 112k lb., 112k / 2 = appx. 56 tons/A, one ft. deep. I haven't nailed down my S amt. yet to neutralize the lime but am re-thinking the 1 ft. depth to just 6 - 7" for the first year of additions. I've seen the same comments about hoplessness but some are colored by the economic costs associated with adding large amounts of S. I take your point about pH variability in different locations. I did look at a number of pics. and descriptions of apple Fe and Zn deficiency in leaves last year and couldn't separate the 2 looking at my tree(s) it was frustrating and I figured it wouldn't be all that hard to figure out, I was wrong! Well aware of chelated iron and may go that route, my first inclination has been to correct the soil pH and lime issues in that they can cause other problems as well. CSU (and others) recommend a green tip Zn SO4 spray for Zn deficiency, I may give that a whirl this Spring on one side of the tree and leave the rest alone, or do the whole darned tree. H-man: after further reflection over the past few days I agree that I'd best not go for altering the entire soil profile down to a foot this year, probably calculate and amend for the top 6" this Spring then sample 0 - 6" and 6 - 12" next late Fall to see what happened and go from there. If I recall, the wood chips and leaves release a fair amount of Ca when they break down too. I've gone back and forth over the foliar feeding but haven't tried it so far except a very small trial on the pear tree with Fe EDTA, it burned the leaf margins and the rate and drying conditions were correct. After that experience it soured me some. The N source for me is just a matter of getting the most pH lowering for my buck while adding the N, in retrospect, ammonium sulfate has the highest CaCO3 neutralizing effect of all the N ferts., DUH. I don't expect the miniscule amount of amm. sulfate added to my soil to get the N I need this year to pack much of a punch to the pH but it's a step in the right direction, S will have to do the real heavy lifting on neutralizing all that lime. My target pH is 6.5, no plans to go below that, no real reason to that I can think of, point taken. Man I'm starving, thanks again all. there was probably more to write but the stomach has my full attention now.

silentlou...i'll get out there today and take some pics for you, and post them tonight. The trees on the east side are farther away (maybe 20 feet), but the trees on my south side are probaly 12 feet from where my plantings of all kinds start.I have deer and bear, coons,possums, skunk, fox...you name it, i've got them running through my orchard..it's a freeway! I get the majority of my damage from moles, though..haven't seen too much damage from other animals. I know what you mean about the hickory nuts dropping...mowing in the fall sounds like ping pong balls under your deck! My ground is littered with little holes where the squirrels bury them... My hickories didn't give me anything to speak of this year..they have one huge bearing year,(last year for me), then they rest for a year or two..so this was going to be light year for them anyway, then along came the hail storms and knocked a ton of them down early. I love my woodpeckers..I have the smaller (6" or so) kind in my hickories, and I have a big (14") woodpecker that comes to a dead tree I have on another fenceline..he's been going to that tree for 2 years, so I leave it there for him..it drives my neighbor nuts, he wants the tree for firewood, but I won't give it to him!! Are you Upstate N.Y.? I am between Albany and Syracuse. One other question..how old are your Hickories? I was told by an old timer that years ago, the government(don't know if fed. or state) had a program either during the depression or just after to give people fruit and timber trees if they would plant them, to help people have a future source of food and/or timber. Most of my neighbors have huge stands of pine trees..I guess the people that lives here wanted nuts! Donna

Governmental agents have leaked a report of a widespread, ongoing investigation of Paradise Palm Co. Nursery and Willis Orchard Nursery, and that the owner of Willis Orchards has panicked to rush to sell out his company and to flee the United States. This result of this online information has been published at (www.buybusiness.com/Businesses/13803/Multi-Million-Dollar-Mail-Order-Nursery-for-Sale-Top-Nationally-Recognized-Company) Authorities claim that Paradise Palm Co. was formally a website operated under the Internet address, www.paradisepalmco.com owned by Jason Willis, who also owns www.willisorchards.com, and the closed down company, Paradise Palm Co. has been forced off the INTERNET due to illegal activities. Rumors fly, that the U.S.D.A, recently fined Willis Orchard Co. for illegally shipping infected citrus into Texas and other States. Jason Willis was forced to destroy all his on site diseased citrus trees and then to "Cease and Desist" the selling of citrus on the www.willisorchards.com website. A garden watchdog website, is reporting that Willis Orchard Nursery has compiled more negative complaints that positives, and the B.B.B. after three years is still showing an 'F' rating for www.willisorchards.com, a rating that is so bad. that you cannot even bring up the name Willis Orchards unless you type in the now defunct company, Paradise Palm Co in Moultrie, Georgia. It is unclear. whether or not, the greatly indebted and empty pockets of former suppliers of Willis Orchards will seek a Court intervention to block the sale of Willis Orchards, before the owner, Jason Willis, has a chance to flee the United States and pursue his other interests in a foreign county. Website investigators have advised present and past customers of Willis Orchards and Paradise Palm Co. to complain to the following agencies, if they have any complaints against the Willis Orchards complex, or if the customers are owed free replacements resulting from dead or infected plants. Tommy Irvin Georgia State Agriculture Commissioner: Email- tommy.irvin@agr.georgia.gov Phone- 1-800-282-5852 Georgia Governor's Office of Consumer Affairs: Office of the Attorney General of Georgia Thurbert E. Baker, Attorney General 40 Capitol Square, SW Atlanta, GA 30334 Call 404-651-8600 or Toll Free 1-800-869-1123 Website: http://consumer.georgia.gov/00/channel_title/0,2094,5426814_39102589,00.html Georgia BBB: 500 12th Street Columbus GA 31901 Phone- (706)324-0712 Email- info@columbus-ga.bbb.org Website- http://columbusga.bbb.org For protection you can file charge backs with your credit card company also.

While I’m thinking about the orchard and waiting for it to wake up from the winter, I figured now might be a good time to give an update on my hobby orchard. See the first post in this thread for more background info. My recording thermometer in the orchard confirms that the location is solidly in zone 4a, with the lows over the last 4 winters being -23F, -29F, -35F, and -25F. In addition to the cold injury and highly variable spring temperatures, disease has emerged as a serious problem that I need to get under control. It looks likely that I will lose 3 or 4 of my 7 apple trees to fireblight, and I have lost an alarming number of stone fruit trees to some sort of disease, possibly bacterial canker. I know that you are supposed to prune stone fruit after leaf out because of disease concerns, but I hadn’t seen any disease in the orchard and got lazy and pruned my stone fruits in April of 2016 along with everything else. Most of those pruned stone fruits died that summer L. I had been trying to only spray the trees when I saw a problem, but I’ve decided to spray with a combined insect/fungal spray once per month. And I will not prune stone fruits till summer, and even then I will try to disinfect pruners and do as little pruning as I can get away with. On to the individual variety info… Honeyberries: I’ve got one bush each of Borealis, Tundra, and an unspecified pollinator. All are very slow growing. They look happy enough, but the largest is only ~3ft (1m) tall and wide after 4 growing seasons. There were a handful of flowers each of the last two years, and I saw a few green berries last year, but they disappeared before they were fully ripe. I didn’t see any berry carcasses on the ground, so I suspect birds/rodents. Blueberries (multiple bushes of each variety): Herbert: Significant winter damage the winter when we had -35F, but still alive and producing berries. Patriot: Hardier than I expected as it only received tip damage during the -35F winter. Good producer. St. Cloud: Only slight winter damage. Good producer Polaris: Smallest of the bushes. Surprisingly died back to snow line during the -35F winter. Northblue: No winter damage at all. Modest producer. Wild Highbush: 2 bushes found wild on the property and transplanted to the orchard. There shouldn’t be any wild highbush plants that can survive anywhere near this area, but there they were. Definitely smaller berries than the cultivated varieties, but I would say they are somewhat larger than the wild lowbush blueberries that are all over the area. The bushes are at least 4ft tall and even wider than that. Two out of the three years they have been there, they have produced copiously. No winter damage. I might start trying to layer these to make more. Raspberries: Pequot(black): Died to snowline during -35F winter, but seem to be OK out to the tips after the most recent -25F winter. Haven’t gotten any berries yet due to heavy deer browsing. I didn’t expect to need to cage raspberries since there are numerous wild raspberries and blackberries in the woods that manage to survive the deer. I guess these are just too tempting sticking out obviously in the middle of a field. I’ve lightly caged them now, so hopefully they can get some good growth. Autumn Bliss(primocane red): Also heavily deer browsed, but I did get a handful of berries both from summer and fall harvests last year. Large, soft berries that seemed fairly bland. Maybe it was just a bad year. Many berries had Asian fruit fly larvae inside. Moderate spreading through runners. Canes surprisingly died down to snow line after -25F this past winter. Not really a problem as I’m planning to manage them for primocane harvest only. These are now lightly caged as well. Cherry: Lapins: Winter damaged its first year and completely killed by -29F in its second winter. Mesabi: Planted 2016 to replace Lapins, and made it through -25F this past winter with no noticeable damage. Evans(aka Bali): This had been my most promising tree in the entire orchard. Grew from ~18” (0.5m) to over 10ft (3m) in 3 seasons and was covered in flowers the last two springs(though no cherries). Leafed out fine and flowered last year after the early pruning, but by mid-late summer the vast majority of the tree was dead. L Bark on part of the trunk had split by fall, so I suspect bacterial canker? There is a sprout coming off the trunk an inch or two above the soil line that was still alive last fall. Hopefully it survives. The really unfortunate part is that a root sucker (it is a tissue cultured tree) popped up a few feet away from the tree when the main trunk started dying, but that sucker accidentally got mowed down. Carmine Jewel (UofS bush): 2 bushes. Growing very well and covered in flowers the last two springs. Seemed to set some fruit last year, but they all dropped. Both now about 5ft tall. One is showing serious signs of disease with a big split on the bark of the main trunk and about half the top looking dead. Perhaps due to bacterial canker from pruning too early? One plant has a root sucker that is growing very well, hopefully the diseased one puts up a sucker before it dies. Crimson Passion (UofS bush): 2 bushes. Very similar story to the other UofS bushes. Growing very well and covered in flowers the last two springs. Seemed to set some fruit last year, but they all dropped. Both now about 5ft tall. One showed extremely pale looking leaves last summer, but no other obvious signs of disease and looks alive now. Peach: Had a McKay and a Contender. Both grew OK during their first year and then died completely during the first winter. Apricots(planted 2015 to replace the peaches): Westcot: Never really seemed to grow well after planted. Showed signs of possible winter (dead tips) damage after -35F winter. Dead by late summer of their second year. Possibly another victim of bacterial canker? Debbies Gold: Never really seemed to grow well after planted. Showed signs of possible winter (dead tips) damage after -35F winter. Dead by late summer of their second year. Possibly another victim of bacterial canker? Plum: Black Ice: Grew well for 2 years with no winter damage. Flowers in the 2nd and 3rd springs. In summer of third year, leaves turned pale and then yellowed. Tree died by September. I have no explanation for the leaf color changing, but I did prune the tree that year in May. Perhaps some disease was transmitted then? Maybe it was bacterial canker again? But no signs of issues on the trunk. Superior: Same story as Black Ice. Grew extremely vigorously for 2 years with no winter damage. Flowers in the 2nd and 3rd springs. In summer of third year, leaves turned pale and then yellowed. Tree died by September. I have no explanation for the leaf color changing, but I did prune the tree that year in May. Perhaps some disease was transmitted then? Maybe it was bacterial canker again? But no signs of issues on the trunk. American Plum Seedling: Planted as a pollinator for Black Ice and Superior. Has grown vigorously every year with a very twiggy habit. Flowered every spring except first, though no fruit yet. Pruned every year, but has shown no signs of disease. Waneta: planted spring 2017 as a companion for the American plum seedling. Green Gage: Planted 2016. Very sad looking all year and never really grew. Looks dead now, but won’t know for sure till after leaf-out. Opal: Planted 2016. Very sad looking all year and top never really grew. Quite a few root suckers, but the top might be dead. Won’t know for sure till after leaf-out. Pear: Hudar: Died back to 12” first winter. Died to snowline 2nd winter. Supposedly hardy to zone 3. Pulled out because I did not expect it to ever really grow. Nova: Some winter damage both of first two years, but multiple catalog sources indicate this should be OK to zone 3. Accidentally killed in 2015 while working nearby. Replanted with a new Nova tree in 2016. Didn’t put much growth on and looked dead in early September. I thought it was done for, but there was still green under the bark in October as well as this spring all the way out to the tips, so maybe it just went dormant super-early last year for some reason. Will know more in a month. Patten: Planted 2016 to replace Hudar. Grew well in first year and looks like no winter damage. Stacey (aka Stacyville): Planted 2017. Grapes: Sommerset Seedless: Planted 2014. Barely survived first year with little growth. Entire top died over first winter, but tiny root suckers grew up during the summer. I judged them too small to be worth keeping, so I killed them end of 2015. Replanted with same variety from a different source in 2016. Grew OK and actually ended up with one tiny cluster of blueberry-sized grapes that I didn’t see earlier or I would have pruned off. The grapes didn’t actually fully ripen, but still had that delicious strawberry flavor that people mention. The small (~3’, 1m) vines were laid down for the winter. Took significant winter damage, but areas low down look alive. Pruned down to live areas (~8”) and tied up to fencing. Bluebell: Planted 2014. Poor growth the first year. Did not survive to the second spring. Replanted with the same variety from a different source in 2016. Grew well over the first summer. Took some Japanese beetle damage. 4-5’ vines laid down over the winter. Tips look dead, but much of the vines alive. Pruned to a pair of 2’ stems this spring and tied up onto some fencing. Marquette: Two plants planted in 2014. Decent growth in first year. Didn’t appear to harden off the first fall. Both tops appeared to winter-kill, but one had strong growth from a root sucker. The other died. The dead plant was replaced with the same variety from a different source in 2016. The originally surviving plant had some tip die-back, but most of stem was alive even after -35F winter. It was pruned back to just a few buds. Both new and old plants grew well last year. The older plant had flower clusters, but I pruned off all but one small cluster. The new plant grew to ~5’ and the older one grew to ~8’. The one cluster grapes tasted pretty good in early October (especially for one that is primarily intended to be a wine grape). Some winter tip damage on both plants this year, but majority of the stems seemed OK. Smaller plant pruned to just a few buds, larger plant with multiple fairly thick stems was pruned to two 3’ (1m) stems that I hope will become permanent heads for an umbrella-kniffen pruning system on my fencing. American Cranberry: Planted in 2014. Stevens variety. I don’t give them any protection over the winter. Leaves turn purple each fall and remain purple till May, when they green up and start growing. Some minor rodent damage with tips nipped off one winter, but no noticeable winter damage. It is not in any sort of wet area. Just in an acidic, sandy area next to the blueberries (they like similar soil). Flowers in June. Got a half-dozen berries the 2nd year and ~2 cups worth in the 3rd year (last year). The patch started as two 4” potted plants that were each split in half and planted in a ~18” (0.5m) square pattern. The patch filled in nicely with runners, but hasn’t spread like I was hoping. It is about 24” square now. If it doesn’t start spreading this year, I might buy some lingonberries to go in the area where I was expecting the cranberries to grow into. Apples: Honeycrisp: Planted 2013. Grew solidly each year. Now ~10’. Never any noticeable winter damage. Very nice branch structure with little pruning needed. Had some flowers last spring. Last fall something didn’t seem right with a number of my apple trees, including this one. I’m fairly new to orcharding, and certainly to disease recognition. Areas of the branches and stem had a dark gray color and lichen is growing on it, so I was starting to suspect fireblight. The dark areas are even more prominent now, and I’m convinced that it is a major fireblight infection. Looks like the main trunk may be girdled by the infection. This tree might be a lost cause. Chestnut Crab: Planted 2013. Has grown well each year. Needed a ladder to prune this year, perhaps 13’ (4m) tall. No winter damage any year. Flowers the last two springs, but no apples yet. Might be showing early signs of fireblight, but it’s not as obvious as on other apples, so I’m not sure. Sweet Sixteen: Planted 2016. Grew well last year and looks happy with no signs of winter damage. Liberty: Planted 2016. Most places say this variety shouldn’t be hardy enough for zone 4a, but I saw somebody down the road had a moderate-sized tree, and he said he’s had it for 6+ years (including at least one winter with -35F), so I put one in. No sign of winter damage after its first winter. With the recent fireblight outbreak, I’m glad I have at least one highly resistant variety planted. Ashmead’s Kernel: Planted 2013. Never grew much at all. Showed winter damage at least two years and was showing signs of disease. Barely alive after 3 years, so I put it out of its misery in fall of 2015. Dabinett: Always broke bud later than other varieties and always looked dead, but kept coming alive for a few years, albeit with winter tip damage. Never grew much. Finally died in 2015. Honeygold: Planted 2013. Had minimal roots when planted, so I didn’t expect much. But it grew like crazy and never looked back. Never any winter damage. Tallest tree in the orchard at ~14’. Flowers the last two springs, but no apples. I had high hopes for it. Much like the Honeycrisp, something didn’t look right last summer/fall. Looks to be a serious fireblight infection that is likely to kill the tree. Golden Russet: Planted 2013. Grew modestly each year. Now ~8’. Some minor winter damage some years, and never seemed to thrive. Never seemed to want to form a central leader. Seems like it is showing signs of serious fireblight now. I don’t have high hopes for this tree. Wealthy: Planted 2014. Grows solidly each year with no signs of winter damage. Every year there are lots of sprouts from below the graft, but the top keeps growing fine. No flowers yet, but hopefully this is the year. No sign of fireblight. Hazelnuts: Skinner x (Graham and Winkler): 4 seedlings. Should be blight and cold tolerant. Purchased from Saint Lawrence nursery, where I saw the parents. The parents were impressive >15’ (3m) hedges, though they did not appear to have many nuts when I saw them. I was also told by a hazelnut breeder that any nuts from them are likely to be small. All 4 are growing well with 3 out of the 4 showing zero winter damage. The 4th only has dieback on the catkins. The actual vegetative buds have not been damaged. I got a total of 3 nuts from 2 of these bushes in 2015. They were dime and penny sized before shelling. Tasted good. No nuts last year. All of these are 7-8’ tall. They all harden off very well each fall. Yamhill: This is a commercial Oregon variety with big nuts that is blight tolerant, but probably cold sensitive. It has showed tip dieback each winter and died to ground one winter, but survived the -35F winter with only tip dieback and has been gaining in size for the last two years, so maybe it will actually survive long-term. It actually even has catkins this spring. Doesn’t seem to consistently harden off in fall. I’m willing to tolerate frequent minor winter damage from this plant if it can provide some commercial-sized nuts when we get an occasional, mild winter. H2R8P47 X H3R13P40: Should be blight and cold tolerant. Two of these seedlings. Some tip damage each winter and one died to snowline during the -35F winter. Now 5-7’, but cold hardiness has not been as good as hoped, especially since these are likely to produce small nuts. Doesn’t seem to consistently harden off in fall. Luvalls #3 X Santiam: Should be blight tolerant and have decent nuts. Two of these seedlings. Tip damage some winters, but not every year. ~5-6’ tall. Doesn’t seem to consistently harden off in fall, but these are showing some promise. LaFeuillage X H3R13P40: Should be cold hardy, but blight tolerance unknown. Showed no winter damage any year. Now 6’ and for the first time has a few catkins and I think even a few flowers. Definitely encouraging. Luvalls #3 X H3R13P40: Should be blight tolerant, but with questionable cold hardiness. More tip damage than most and died to ground one winter. Doesn’t seem to consistently harden off in fall. Only 4’. This is a candidate to get yanked at some point if I need more room. Badgersett Hazels: Hopefully 4 of them going in this summer, if they ever show up. Chestnuts: 8 seedlings that were crosses of various amounts of Chinese and American parentage. Not going to spend any time describing them because most have completely died. I think 3 are still alive, but have died to the snow line or ground level each winter. These will get pulled. I do have 4 Badgersett chestnuts on order that should show up soon. These are probably also a stretch for 4a, but dammit, I want Chestnuts!