so burn will not be an issue at all.

==>>> love the optimism.. lol ...

dont forget about transplant shock creating some damage.. that might be misinterpreted as burn ...

i disagree with stu above.. in that it will turn darker that fast ... and its not uncommon for them to dull in winter ... is any of the shade deciduous??? ...

but as with any micro climate .... you wont know until you plant it.. and wait a decade ..

ken

Ken, I'll eat my hat if it burns in this spot; simply not enough sun. And I mentioned a few times in the post that all the shade is deciduous, so it won't stick around in fall, it's really just that late August early September full shade I'm worried about. But I agree with people above, it's probably not enough time to really mess it up.

Oh and I highly doubt there will be any transplant shock, it's in a pot (6gal from Iseli)... unless I take it out and see that it needs serious root surgery... then I see your point.

You can make a screen - David Stegmaier in Kansas City constructed a two or three part screen using aluminum poles and shade cloth, that he used to wrap his 'Skylands' during its youth. He wrote a piece on here somewhere that you might be able to find by searching. You would need only one panel, it sounds like, and maybe only for the first few years. David is active on Facebook so you can find him there (and see lots of photos of his beautiful garden).

Are you suggesting it for winter or something? And unfortunately a screen isn't an option, it's in the front/side yard and neither I nor my neighbors would appreciate the eye sore of a screen. I really can't see this thing burning with 5 hours of weak sun... the issue I came here with was the opposite of burn, I'm worried it will green out...

The sun schedule is like this: sun from 8-10am, then sun from ~3pm to sundown. I just don't see it burning with 5-6 hours of weak sun... all the afternoon sun will be heavily filtered. Maybe I'm underestimating the propensity for them to burn. One town over they planted one in full 12 hours of sun at the borough building, it barely burnt this summer, which was a record for sustained heat here in NJ. And no they didn't screen it and yes it's basically a baby (5 feet).

My neighbor has one that ONLY gets the hottest sun of the day, like 3-4 hours of it, no burn. Even in its first year.

It shouldn't burn. I'm in Long Island and near where I live I often pass by a newly planted Skyland Spruce (in front of an office building) which is in full blazing sun and it looks fine. There are also Several large newly planted Skyland's in front of an apartment building nearby that get a lot of sun, they may get some shade from a large sycamore maple near them, but they look great. I don't think burning is the issue but weather there will be enough sun for the best yellow color.

Yes, this is my concern, proper color, not burn. I know it won't be blazing gold with 5-6 hours of weak sun, I just don't want it going completely green due to the 0 hours of of sun during those last 3-4 weeks of summer.

Clarifying, I'm not at all concerned about burn, I'm concerned about proper color and the end of season full shade I described.

No screen! Yes, unsightly but effective, but really to prevent burn. Sounds like you are in good shape and you have this figured out.

I must say I'm excited, been planning this for a while. Between the hill for drainage (and great soil), the proximity to the house on the opposite side of the winter winds, and the significant afternoon shade, I have high hopes for this 'Skylands'.

I have an almost 2 foot Picea orientalis 'Firefly' that is probably the same age as the 'Skylands', planted in a box that I am now VERY tempted to transplant next to the 'Skylands' for a mother/child set up.

This tree burns for me if it is exposed to any sun lol.

August is a good time for skylands to have some shade IMO.

Your spot sounds as good as any and I say give it a try.

Well now I'm just flat out pumped to plant this tree. I was initially wondering if this cultivar would like some late summer shade for it to kind of "cool off" but figured I was just telling myself what I wanted to hear.

Ok so I just placed it in my wheel barrel to move it, and I was as gentle as can be, but I still heard a lower limb make a mild cracking noise from being pushed upwards by the sidewall of the wheel barrel. Now I'm all paranoid that in spring I'm going to find a dead branch. I immediately removed it as fast as I could after hearing it and no further cracking noises occurred. I looked for the crack but the growth on the bottom is far too dense for it to be a worthwhile venture, it would be impossible to find.

My question is, since the crack is most likely on the underside of the joint to the trunk of whatever branch it happened to, will the weight of the branch pushing down seal it back up? I figure if grating works, this very healthy plant should be able to seal up and heal a tiny crack, no? I really don't want spring to roll around and find a dead/dying lower limb, I'll feel like a total moron (I already do).

I wouldn't worry about it. Branches often break when planting a tree. I've done this many times even if I'm careful. The tree will eventually fill in and the damage won't be noticeable.

If I was a sane person I would do exactly as you said, but I'm a paranoid dude that tends to obsess (kidding, but only slightly). Any chance the xylem/phloem will seal it up and heal it? I mean it was a very mild cracking noise, it's in all likelyhood still 90-95% attached if it even cracked.

(there were some dead leaves in there that may have crinkled, imitating a cracking sound; the only reason I think this could be an option is that the degree of bend placed on the branches did not seem like nearly enough to crack them, I was quite surprised. It was also a quite mild cracking sound)

I'm going to keep telling myself that if grafting is possible, this wound that's probably only a millimeter or two tops should be able to heal.

This is going to drive me crazy until I forget about it... I was able to get the damn thing in the front seat of my Honda Accord, close the door and get it home without cracking one branch.... but I place it in a damn wheel barrel and uggghhh. I need a distraction.

Here's a photo of the tree for those curious... I wouldn't be so stressed out about this if I didn't think it was such a perfect specimen

Beautiful tree!

Good looking tree.

"Well now I'm just flat out pumped to plant this tree. I was initially
wondering if this cultivar would like some late summer shade for it to
kind of "cool off" but figured I was just telling myself what I wanted
to hear."

I had that thought myself.

Thanks guys! When I saw it's health and the price, I snagged it immediately. Been wanting one for years but never could find the right specimen, and I simply don't have the patience for BP's or even 1-3 gallons.

So can anyone give me a likelihood of me finding a dead branch in spring? I've been researching the science and biology of grafting, and it seems that branches can heal quite a bit provided there's enough pressure and moisture sealed within the wound, and that the cambium are properly aligned. I wouldn't have high hopes for a crack or tear on the top of the trunk junction of the branch, as the bend from the weight of the branch will keep it open and exposed. The branches were bent upwards by the wheel barrel sidewall and so the chances of it being on the bottom side of the junction are quite high, and thus the weight of the branch will keep it closed/sealed. And obviously the cambium are perfectly aligned as nothing was moved.

I wish I could find it so I could tape it tight, but I tried and the growth is simply too dense on the bottom where it happened to even find the branch/trunk junctions. And even if I could, I doubt I could spot a hairline crack that's probably 1-2mm's.

Planted

Only minor root surgery was required, a few circling roots and a few woody roots... I couldn't have gotten more lucky with the weather; the day I planted it the fall weather arrived with clouds, cold nights, and rain.

Wow thanks! If it makes it through it's first winter I will definitely be in agreement with you, it will do wonderfully in that spot. Eventually (3-4 years) I'll start thinning the canopy above it to get it that bright gold we all want in this plant. It's definitely going to be more chartreuse than gold in this spot, but I'm ok with that, I don't want it burning.

And I think the 'firefly' might be going in next to it!

You hooked that skylands up!

Very low light shot from a cell phone, the sun was pretty much down, I'm surprised it's even visible. Will post better shots tomorrow when it's light out. Mother and child, 'Skylands' (age approx. 7yo) and 'Firefly'(age 6yo). Two new sprinklers put in so they won't get hit but the grass will stay watered. Before this modification they would have been getting hit by 2 different sprinklers during the summer, now none. Mulch and the formal bed were made once it was basically dark and a picture could not be taken.

So who votes for some overhead moon type lighting on these bad boys or just leave em natural? And I'm eventually going to expand the beds and connect them into a snowman/8 shape and I might throw a 'Tomb thumb gold' in the middle off to the front for morning sun and then late late afternoon sun, everything else will be blocked by the deciduous canopy and the 'Skylands'. I'm not sure if all 3 would be overdoing it or not! Here'a a farther back shot from the day of planting the 'Skylands'

They're 8' apart from center to center, the angle makes it look like less, the 'Firefly' is a bit behind the 'Skylands'. Also I figured I'd lean towards the aggressive side of distance (9-10ft would have been more ideal) between the two as the firefly will always be transplantable size.

I like the one bed idea but I would mix it up with some contrasting foliage, perhaps a dark-green broad-leafed evergreen or a deciduous shrub or small tree. You may be downplaying the beauty and drama of each of these by not allowing them enough attention on its own.

The beds are going to be merged for sure into one "8" shaped bed. I will definitely be planting red and purple within the beds, I just haven't decided how I'm going to do it, that's a spring project. I agree they could use some contrast. This area is definitely not finished, the "main players" are in though ;)

As a friend told me: not all of your plants can be divas. You need a chorus as well!

Well this was and is just intended on being a tiny bed of gold conifer, there are dozens more much larger beds on the acre.

I know! But these are really cool plants! Divas, in fact!

Full sun a must for best color. Screen the sunny side of the plant with 60/40 shade cloth for two years. Remove it for WInter. Then you are good to go.

There's far too much deciduous canopy, I'd have to cut down 5+ 80-120 year old maples and oaks to get it even close to full sun. I'll do some thinning of the canopy along where the sun travels but I'm not taking down 500+ years of trees to get more color in my skylands. The tree code in my neighborhood is so strict I'd probably only get permits to take down 1 or 2 of them... it's a blessing though, my neighborhood is like a forest (makes it tough to find spots for conifers though! The most sun I can get on my 1 acre is 6.5 hours, and there's already a Acer griseum busy establishing there).

Beautiful specimen, I've seen it many times on this forum. Thanks!

Personally I would leave the Maple and Oak trees alone. I think what you have now is fine in terms of sun. Having a nice wooded setting in the background is nice. I have a similar setup with old and large Maples in my backyard. I would work around the trees. I think a nice Fagus sylvatica 'Purple Fountain' would look great there. The Weeping Purple Beech can do well in shade or sun.

I'm not an expert but I think that burning would be more of an issue in Kansas City than here. Around my neighborhood most of the recently planted Skylands that are in full sun look fine. Last year A Skylands was planted in front of a nursery I go to and it looked fine. I'm going to go back to the nursery soon and I will observe the tree for any burning.

Burning is an issue in KC. That's why you screen if in the Midwest. Especially vulnerable for new plantings that have limited roots to care for the topside. I am not here to advocate cutting trees down for 'Skylands' to succeed. Some areas of the US need no screening for this cultivar. Its all about your micro-climate and what works for you. Saying it doesn't burn where I live means nothing to someone who lives elsewhere. I live in Z5. Ken lives in 5 also Worlds apart in micro-climate. He can't grow what I can and vice-versa. Example...he can't grow 'Skylands'. I can't grow Abies...he can.

The borough in the town over has one in blazing full sun, this was taken at this end of this summer and I'm quite sure it wasn't screened. It has mild burn but it will be fine. Maaaan was it gold, much more gold in person.

Mine will definitely end up being more chartreuse with the shade. 5 and a half hours of morning/late afternoon sun and probably a total of a half hour of blazing midday sun through holes in the canopy. 6 hours total, 90% of it being weak sun.

Here's the shot of the towns' skylands. There are 5 in my neighborhood alone, they do extremely well here and are becoming popular amongst non-enthusiasts.

They are definitely becoming very popular here too. Skylands was one of the first trees I fell in love with and one of the varieties that hooked me into conifers back in 2002. I planted 2 back in 2002. One is in full sun, the other gets some shade from a large Maple. Here's are photos of both.

This one's maybe 17 ft tall.

This one's in full sun all day long

It does have some mild burning.

This one gets some shade by the large maple in the front of the house. This Skylands might be 15ft tall.

It seems as though 'Skylands' that get burn tend to grow quite the irregular shape... all the ones I see verging on the burn line are strangely shaped... all the ones I see in shade not burning are the exact same columnar shape with those winglets. I really do believe burn effects the overall shape and outcome of the tree in maturity.

So today I went outside to find my 'Firefly' tipped over by about 45 degrees, and one of the branches under the leader in last years whorl completely torn off the tree. I also found the branch, so it wasn't a baby deer testing it out. I think my landscaper may have done it while mowing the lawn. Quite ticked off. Tried reattaching the branch because there was still liquid sap coming out of where the branch was, but the angles and buds on the other side made it impossible to tape with staking tape... and I tried using a needle to attach it but it wasn't going through and the last thing i wanted to do was mess up the trunk and the buds that were on the opposite side. Also, there were clearly tunnels running under the tree from chipmunks running through the bottom. Anyone have any suggestions?

I would remove the branch. Next year the tree will fill in.

Good thing its not the leader that broke. I broke the leader of my Angel Falls white pine when i got it home from the garden center, tried to re attach it but lost it anyway. I just trained another branch & now its starting to have a new leader. Just wait for the tree to grow back up.

So I just went and checked on the tree (skylands), the foliage is doing great, but a lot of the buds are turning black and mushy, I'm assuming this is very bad.... some are on the main trunk, they just fell right out when I probed them. Is it a goner? How will it expand in spring without any buds? It won't...

Can you show us a photo?

Tomorrow I can. What's confusing me is there's 0 needle drop; but I'm pretty sure the buds are dying/rotting. Thankfully I have a good relationship with the owner of the nurseey where I got it, he'll replace it in spring if it's a goner.

The buds are prb'ly an issue, but there are usually embedded buds present that you can't see.

In general, firs are shade-tolerant (but pines aren't), so I don't think some shading is an issue. Remember that evergreens photosynthesize a bit in later fall & early/mid-spring when deciduous trees are bare.

Chris: have you been watering the tree?

It has been in full shade in soil that holds its moisture well so I wasn't watering too often, I was more afraid of root rot due to the low temps and the full shade and the soil retention properties. Whenever I checked the soil it was moist so I kept the waterings deep and infrequent; I believe once every week-ish and a half. The firefly right next to it went in only 1 week later and it's doing fine. It received a much less substantial root surgery though...

Well the tree seems as healthy as can be aside from a few buds that turned black in those few weeks after its root surgery; I'm blaming it on that because I literally can't get this thing to drop a darn needle its so healthy, and this is a day after the first snow of the season.

I guess the root surgery must have just hit a few roots that went to those buds or something, because the tree couldn't be healthier... even the few branches that had a bud or two go black won't drop needles, and most of the black buds are firm. I probably only found 3 to 4 black buds that were also mushy.

Now to just hope it gets through winter. The 'Firefly' is doing just as well as the 'Skylands' minus the few black buds so hopefully my golden oriental mother/child arrangement will work out! Cheers to everyone who helped!

Hey stuart! Whats that beautiful little blue green tree in front of your full sun "Skylands" that's already coning at such a young age? Some sort of fir? The needles look too short to be any type of spruce besides orientalis and I know for a fact no orientalis comes in a color like that!

Thanks for the compliment Chris. I'm glad you like it. That's Picea mariana doumetii.