I am really confusing myself. :P

How important is the Tier of the energy efficiency? vs number of wash cycles. Not sure if this will work, but this seems to be the narrowed down list based on what I have read.

7 choices?

I am willing to go to different stores if they might have more options, although I am not so sure more options will help me narrow it down!

I did a good deal of research for mamap on the original thread. AIR -- someone please correct me if needed -- mama's 95 (discontinued) was replaced by the 92 which doesn't have the internal heater.

Best IMO would be to try to find a 95 somewhere -- mamap was very lucky. I hope she will weigh in on her 95 and what's helpful to ask about.

The clinker on the 87 seems to be that -- while it has an internal heater, -- it has no allergen cycle. That's why there is no NSF certification. Here on the LF we have taken that to mean there is no guaranteed hot temperature.

If someone has an 87 perhaps they can comment. Alternately, I would call reliable dealers like abt or yale and ask, and call Whirlpool and inquire.

It should be easy but it's a real PITA these days. So sorry.

None of us like the low-water Tier 3 though -- again correct me if needed -- tier 3 owners report they cannot see much water but that the clothes still get very clean.

Also, I'd want to know the difference between "tumble fresh" on the 87 and "fan fresh."

Electrolux users like their machines so that may be worth a look.

Info on this thread also may be useful.

The older duets were German make and reportedly quite wonderful. The new ones have a good rep but are different machines. The link was solely to duets and maximas, have you considered Electrolux?

No need for a matching dryer if you already have what you like.

water hammer is suposedly easily fixed by adding adjusters to the hoses. Do you have those?

Have you seen this article? Link

Thank you both. I had seen that article, but it was awhile ago, so I will read it again. I will also read the article that you posted rococogurl.

I am going to print the NSF list as well and start cross referencing with Tier and capacity. I like the idea of more water.

There seem to be a lot of GE models on that list, but I do not see them mentioned often. I am curious as to why?

As of last June, GE appliances belongs to the Chinese conglomerate Haier. Be careful with GE. They have a spotty record for construction and customer service. Your other alternatives would be Samsung, Electrolux, and whirlpool. I would take the whirlpool over the samsung, but YMMV.

Some past GE frontloaders were sourced from Little Swan (Chinese). Don't know if that applies to any current models.

OK well, I just went through the whole NSF list. crossed out samsung and GE

that leaves the electrolux EWFLS70JIW - I cant tell what tier it is.

as much as I don't want LG, am I correct that LG makes kenmore and none are allergen rated?

Of the whirlpool/maytag Many many are discontinued. - is it that they are not doing the ratings anymore? or they only do them periodically?

this one - tier2 maytag MHW5400DW

I cant find any others that are not discontinued. and I cant find any xl capacity. Kind of disappointing and makes me wish I had purchased a set a few months ago.

I think the Duet 90 replaced the 95's. The specs for the 8540, 90, 92 and 87 all have steam option which translates to an internal heater. The 8540, 92 and 90 are all TIer III 4.5 drum capacity; the 87 is Tier II 4.3. I can see no difference between Tumble Fresh and Fan Fresh except that Tumble Fresh equates to green digitals and Fan Fresh to blue digitals. Personally, I would visit the Whirlpool website and run a comparison between these models. All seem to have a Sanitize cycle and a steam option but none specifically show an NSF protocol. You can also download the manuals on each machine which really helps to determine whether the machine will have the types of cycles you want. I have the 95 and love it but it's been out of production for nearly a year so I would expect any models left to be few and far between. Whirlpool is a Made in the USA brand.

I am ready to stage the take over.

Apparently even though the MHW5400DW shows available, it is not in my area. that leaves me with 1 - electrolux.

OR I will need to consider LG again or samsung. if I want the NSF allergen rating, which I do.

You are not alone in your desire. Buying a washer unbelievably frustrating. I don't think the Electrolux 70 you referenced is being made anymore I think it's been replaced with the 617. A lot of people loved the 70. They also seem to like the 617.

Thanks Practigal and Rococogurl. at some point in the next week or two I will just be out of time and will have to make a decision. Maybe I need to focus on the dryer. My LG washer is really fine I think. we sold our set with our current house and the house we are buying they are taking them with them. so there is a hard deadline! :)

Roc - you should refer to the Whirlpool site, not ABT. I checked the ABT site against the manufacturers and found the manufacturers websites to be much more informative as to actual features.

My 2cents....just because there's a sanitize or allergen cycle doesn't mean you will get the temps..I have the Duet 95 that has the sanitize cycle, the manual states it will eliminate 99.99% of most bacteria found in clothes, sheets, and towels, and the hot WASH ensures sanitization..yet my heater does not engage during this cycle unless I choose STEAM in which case when the wash cycle is complete it drains the water than steams...that is not a hot wash nor does it steam long enough to sanitize.....however my Allergen cycle does give me a long hot wash somewhere in the upper 150F range. The Towel cycle does not engage the heater. The Whites cycle does engage the heater and its somewhere in the 130F...andHeavy Duty in the 140'sF. Normal cycle is pathetic with its 2ounces of water, but may be acceptable if you have a single pair of socks to wash LOL.....there's 2 rinses by default and you can add a third..if you want a fourth rinse choose drain/spin and extra rinse, what's nice about this is you can choose your temp cold, cool, warm or hot.

It took me awhile to figure out my Duet but now I couldn't imagine not having it. I have the temps I want and it uses enough water to satisfy me who has always been an old skool TL user until this Duet. Its quiet enough that I check on it to make sure its running...I have only had a few times when spin was a bit loud but mostly its also quiet and rarely ever struggles to balance a load. My whites are brilliantly white and my towels soft and fluffy.

Think I've had this machine 4 months now...if I could go back and do more research and choose again...I'd still choose this Whirlpool Duet 95.

moroseaz - If you don't agree with what I have to say that's perfectly fine. However, facts are facts.

For a quick snapshot of what a washer offers I feel that the abt site is a better resource than the Whirlpool site for someone who is shopping -- particularly with respect to onboard heaters. That's my recommendation.

I corrected a factual error in your post. It's ok. We all make mistakes. However, Whirlpool's 92 does not have an onboard heater.

You seem to have an unfortunate habit of taking shots at people here in various threads. Not cool. Check yourself.

The thing is, on the Internet you can have a site that seems good for research and appears authoritative, but contains information that isn't 100% reliable. Someone cared enough to set up a good user interface, which will be around forever. But then it's handed to someone else to keep it up to date, and they may drop the ball.

unfortunately mamap - yours is not available anymore either. I think I am resigning myself to a LG. :P I cant' believe it. that is better than a samsung right? even though no allergen cycle. I keep hoping something new will pop on the list. I have about 3 days then I need to order! :)

@Boop The old WH87, 95,and97 were discontinued a while ago. The new Whirlpool 92 works a little differently than the old Tier 2 models. I have to disagree with roccogurl that the 92 appears to have a heater for example the "extra hot water" and the "steam" cycle, but it doesn't promise any defined temperature and requires the use of bleach in the "sanitize" cycle see the manual. I believe it will get hotter than 120F if that's what your water heater is set to, but no promises of temperatures above 140F. It might, but no guarantees. WH92 is a Tier 3 so it's less water than the Tier2 machines.

I believe the LG machines still work the same way as the Tier 2 machines. That would be the LG 3570 and the 4270, 4.0+/- cu ft machines. That means the water temperature can be read in degrees Centigrade by pushing "wash delay" and "water temperature" simultaneously. The "steam" button engages the water heater and heats to "extra hot" on the cycles it works with. The cycles vary by machine model. I have the 5.0 cu ft LG and get "extra hot" on normal, heavy duty, whitest whites, bulky, comforter, and Sanitize. My readings have been up to 55C. Plenty hot to kill the dust mites and clean up after biological disasters.

Remember there is no perfect machine, your laundry needs are probably different than mine, and there are lemons in every brand. The only absolute is that you have service you trust in your immediate area. No machine is good if you are waiting for the parts boat from FarAway or are forced to pay a trip charge for a needed repair 3 weeks after the machine breaks down.

Good Hunting.

thank you so much poppy. and when you do small loads is there any issue? we generally do large loads bu occasionally have to wash just the kids dobaks (uniforms) I would like a larger washer. I have really not had any issue with the LG besides maybe more wrinkly then I would like, but that could be user error and, I do not think that the dryer sensor works. I always have to use timed dry.

what model do you have?

I see three available at my home depot, although I am open to other places such as Lowes, best buy or whereever! :)

http://www.homedepot.com/b/Appliances-Washers-Dryers-Washers-Front-Load-Washers/LG-Electronics/Built-in-Water-Heater/N-5yc1vZc3pjZ21jZ2bcu0pZ1z0v5jn?NCNI-5

OK this is the older Tier 2 machine. Note that it is not returnable. Be aware that this machine is 29in wide. It doesn't fit through a standard door. Mine is the Kenmore Elite version that has a speciality cycle for small loads. There's also an express wash cycle for light soil levels done in 15 minutes. Because of Sears precarious position, I wouldn't buy a Kenmore now. The Kenmore brand is up for sale. It's a good machine. There is a new Tier 3 machine 90000 serial number. Be sure you really need the monster machine. Some others have the 3570 and the 4270. Check out those threads. Water hammer may or may not affect you. We don't have the hammer. There are water hammer arrestor that seem to help the problem.

super helpful!!! I would not have even thought of it fitting through the door. I am going to look at the other models now.

ok one more question if anyone is playing along still. Cold rinse only? why would you want that?

By law, in the name of energy efficiency, all rinses have been cold for the past four or five years. This is true for all makes and models. There are work arounds by using the express wash or the turbo normal cycles to get a warm or hot "rinse" in the wash cycle. My machine even has a dedicated "cold wash cycle". How stupid is that? I use it for visiting teens who can't be trusted to get their wash done with more than one button.

I've had the LG4270 for about a week now, I like it. Once I figure out all the tricks with it I may just love it :)

It has NSF P172 certified Sanitary. Allergine is not shown as certified but appears to function as well as my prior elux 60.

Normal is uselessly stingy if you don't add modifiers. Add Pre-wash,high soil level and extra rinses and it rocks! Both Bulky and Towels put a good amount of water in. I have not tried all of the cycles yet, still working my way around the dial.

The rinses tend to be stingy with water levels -but- you can add several extra rinses.

Pre-wash can be added to 8 of the cycles and anything on the left side of the cycle selector dial can have steam.

There has been no water hammer problems at all.

And the most important thing-clothes come out clean! We get fairly filthy fairly often. I farm and my husband is a k9 officer. We have a spot outside where we stop and knock the chunks off & rinse down. We also have 2 adultish sons still at home that add to the laundry chaos. Oh, there can also be 3-4 black labs under foot at any given time. Lots of dog blankets & drool.

Almost forgot one of my big likes-if you hold the extra rinse button for 4 seconds it turns the drum light on ;)

thank you chickemama - and why did you not get an electrolux again?

Well, trying to be fair here,but I am filthy angry with Electrolux. I bought the 60 Jan 29 th of this year,2 weeks for delivery. Had 10 wonderful weeks of very clean clothes before it blew it's bearings. It took 6 Weeks to fix it because the repair people could not use locally sourced,in stock parts, they had to come from Turkey, Juarez,the Carolinas,etc. The entire machine had to be broken down and the door boot,tub front,tub back with bearing,inner drum and drive pully had to be replaced. All of this is secured by a few drops of loctite holding the drive shaft of the drum to the pully.

Well, that repair lasted all of 3 weeks before it did the exact same thing. It then took another 6 weeks for them to decide to do a buyback.It may have been 7 weeks before the credit actually came through.

The bright spot in all of this has been Lowes. They had a loaner washer delivered to me in about 3.5 hours after I called them. They helped drag the buyback out of Electrolux, they extended the sale price on the new LG I purchased and have been all around great.

Chickemama - I had just decided to get the Electrolux 517 washer and matching dryer. I am so disappointed to read your experience. My sister has an LG that is a few years old and out of warranty, and it's been impossible to find parts for it. She is ready to trash it. I just don't know what to do now.

Chickemama check your state's lemon laws you may have rights to refund or replacement.

Wow, chickenmama that is awful. Our first Electrolux washer, a 60, leaked from day one. Electrolux thought it was the washer tub gasket and replaced everything. In spite of my unhappiness with the that particular washer, both the local appliance company and Electrolux were great. Unfortunately it still leaked after the tub replacement (they also replaced pumps and motor due to surface rust). I ended up getting the 517 and the appliance company took back both the 60 washer and dryer so I could have a matching set. I've had it a month or so and I'm happy with it. No problems, knock on wood, and performance is good, clothes are clean. I think bad luck is possible with any machine, but the key is support from the manufacturer and appliance company.

Miranda33, I'm curious what's the model number of your sister's LG. Where has she looked for parts?

It's repeatedly said that Samsung parts are difficult/impossible to obtain, but I found several online sources for Samsung parts earlier this year when repairing a 5-years-old machine. Everything I needed was available and at reasonable cost.

Miranda, the new Elux series has a locking nut instead of loctite holding the innards together. I checked on the 617 as I thought there would be a replacement in the works but it was never offered.

practigal, I had contacted the SAG's office about a month into round 2. We were days shy of a Demand letter. The Elux warranty is specific to repair or replace. Instead, they refunded. I'm sure they lost money on this in the long run,with parts & labor for the first fix and finally a refund and one very unhappy customer.

Sashanikki,they should have just replaced it in the first place! A brand new washer that costs $900+ should not leak at instillation or self destruct in less than 3 months! Manufacturers need to get their heads out of their rumps and get a handle on quality control and customer service.

Dadoes, do you know if it is standard practice to restrict a repair companies access to parts? All of my Elux 60 parts were available locally, either I or the repair shop could have had them within 2 days. I'm sure that there are parts available for many machines online. It seems that customers are being told differently.

Dadoes - Idk my sister's LG's model number. I think it's about 6 years old. From what I understand, the repair person hasn't been able to find parts.

Chickemama - that's good to know about the locking nut. Thanks.

Regarding Lowe's warranty, I like it and if they had stocked the Elux 617, which I got at a local dealer, I would have purchased it there because of their warranty. No hassles, no delays.. My choices had narrowed down to the Duet 95 or Elux 617...I am more than happy with the Electrolux.. Yes, tier 3 and all, it is a great machine.

Miranda33: That's what I've heard regards to Samsung, people saying that their servicer can't get parts.
The machine of question belonged to friends of my sister. They were quoted $800-ish to repair so decided to dump their set. I have some experience repairing appliances so my sister took the machines (nothing wrong with the dryer). I thought "Hmm, this is going to be fun trying to find parts." Imagine my surprise when I easily found seven online sources. Compared for best price and the parts came in at $259, including shipping.
Tell your sister to find her machine's model number and search it online. Some of the sources I use include SearsPartsDirect.com, PartsDr.com, AppliancePartsPros.com, RepairClinic.com, and ApplianceZone.com. MidwestApplianceParts.com came up during the Samsung search (by part number), and also SamsungParts.com. There are a couple others I use for a specific brand. Some sources I've used in the past are gone, and new sources have come up. Search the model number at one of the sources (I go to Sears first, they usually carry the most brands) to get the needed part numbers, then shop the other sources by part number for best price (don't forget to compare shipping). Google the part numbers to find more sources.

Chickemama: I don't know. Perhaps repair services are tied to specific parts sources by contract or company policy (if it's a regional or national chain service), such that they can't seek other sources such as online vendors.