Any tips?

I use 5:1:1 for just about everything. You can adjust the amounts of peat you add to it and therefore make it more or less water retentive that way.

The gritty mix is the same. You can add or take away certain parts for more or less water retention.

Could you pls. define : <3 <3 <3

Can ALL indoor plants be planted in 511 or Gritty? I cant think of any plants that wouldn't do extremely well in one or the other and in a very high % of cases, in either. Tropicals and
cacti, for example, have such different moisture needs that I can't wrap
my brain around using the same "soil" for both types. Most growers have difficulty with the same thing you're puzzling over; but that's because they've been conditioned to think that what plants tolerate is what they appreciate. There is no substitute for "knowing your plant", because there are certainly a few exceptions to every rule, but by and large, houseplants and succulents pretty much want the same things ...... especially when they're showing their enthusiasm for putting on growth. They want a soil that allows roots BREATHE and doesn't stay saturated for days on end. I'm pretty particular about keeping things healthy and looking good, and I'm able to do that by watering on a split schedule. I have some plants (bonsai) in tiny pots that need watering daily. About 90% of my plants get watered every 2nd or 3rd day in the summer, and a few get watered every 4th or 5th day. Winter is different. Everything gets watered every 4 days but for a half dozen tiny pots that need attention every other day. AND, they all get fertilized with the same fertilizer on the same schedule. 99.9% of growers who think they're knowledgeable will act shocked and tell you how wrong it is to water on a schedule, because they don't understand that the only reason not to water on a schedule is the poor soil choice that dictates how they must water to avoid issues related to prolonged soil saturation. I don't worry about over-watering because it's practically impossible in the soils I use. I can water the succulents I grow every day in summer if I like - or it can rain for a week straight and I don't worry. There are a few succulents you have to be more careful about, and cacti require the same greater degree of consideration; but by and large, all my plants are treated the same.

How do you choose? 511 vs Gritty? Everything that might be in the same pot/soil for 2 years or more go in the gritty mix. Short term plantings like mixed floral containers and veggies go in the 5:1:1. There ARE a few woody plants like hibiscus, datura, brugmansia that have such vigorous root systems they need repotting every year. Those too, go in the 5:1:1.

I saw some mention that you can tweak the mixes for more or less water retention. How would one do this? Eventually you'll formulate the 5:1:1 mix by feel or how it looks. For the most part, how coarse the bark is and how many fines it includes dictates how much peat and perlite should go in it. It will take a season or 2 to get that down pat, but it's pretty easy. I still screen gritty mix ingredients ahead of time and combine in a 1:1:1 ratio of Turface: pine or fir bark:grit. I might add a little extra Turface for some plants and a bit more grit for others, but 1:1:1 is a good starting place.

How do you determine when a plant needs water with these mixes? I'm
used to checking soil moisture with my finger, but I can't imagine that
works with these mixes...or does it? Use a wood dowel rod, sharpened in a pencil sharpener & stuck deep into the soil. If it comes out dry - water. If it's wet, don't. The gritty mix dries faster than the 5:1:1, so err on the side of safety ....... because it's darn hard to over-water if the ingredients are screened. If not screened, you might ass well use the 5:1:1 because one of the gritty mix's main attributes lies in the fact it holds no) or VERY little) perched water.

Al

Awww K - don't spoil my fun! I was imagining those were little hearts turned sideways! ;-)

Al

I had a lot of the same question so thank you for this post.

So the common houseplants will do well in the 5:1:1 mix?

That's right. It's almost a 100% certainty that anything you might be tempted to pot in fine soils like Miracle-Gro will have a much better chance of realizing more of their potential in fast-draining, well-aerated soils like the 5:1:1 mix and the gritty mix. What makes the fine textured soils limiting is the amount of water they hold between soil particles. In soils based on larger particles, little or no water to limit root function/health is held in the pores between the soil particles. Healthy roots are mandatory, a prerequisite if you're to have a healthy plant.

Al

Al and Dave -- THANK YOU for helping me break all this down so simply! I really appreciate your time and clear answers!

And yes, these are hearts! <3 <3 <3 :D

A couple follow-up questions:

1. For the gritty mix, I read that Turface and grit can make it quite heavy. I have several pots that are already quite big and heavy, and a couple hanging pots. Are there alternative ingredients I could use to make it lighter?

2. Since the soil mix is nutrient-less, do you fertilize all year 'round? Or still just in the growing season? (I'm ashamed to admit I've never fertilized, so that is an entirely new topic to me too!)

3. When repotting my plants from their store-bought soil/peat potting mixes, should I worry about getting all of the old soil off of the roots? What is the best way to do that? And how do I pot them into their new chunky mixes without damaging the roots? I've only ever "loosened the root ball" when repotting, never started completely from scratch.

4. In your longer post on water movement and retention, Al, you talk about peat as being obstructive to good drainage. So I'm confused; why is sphagnum peat included in the 511 mix, or added in to tweak the mixes like we discussed above?

Al -- Yes! Thank you! This is all so helpful! I think I get it and this certainly helped clear things up so I can get started. Also I loved this little tidbit: "No one posits that Mother Nature makes the annual rounds pulling nutrients out of the soil when plants are dormant or quiescent." Such common sense but I would never have thought about it. Thanks again!!

Marlene,

Thanks for posting your questions - I've been wondering the same exact things!!

Deanna

Oh I thought of another question!

What's a good way to siphon off all the drainage from pots that are too big to move to a sink/tub? I of course want to water until the mix is soaked through, but I imagine with the soilless mixes that is much more water than I am used to.

The first thing that popped into my head was using a turkey baster to suck water out of the saucer, lol. Does anyone have a better method?

2 turkey basters? ;-)

Al

HA!

...But seriously, what do people do if the container is too heavy to move? How do you drain the water?

I over-winter more than 100 plants in my basement under lights. The 'collection saucer' is a 9" or 6" plastic plate, depending on the size of the pot. I flush the soil each time I water, but not enough that the collection saucer overflows. By the time the plant next needs watering, the water has evaporated. I actually really like this set-up because the water in the collection saucer helps me keep humidity where I like it, above the 55% mark, as it evaporates.

Al

Ah, I see, so it ends up functioning like a pebble tray. Thanks!

Mmhmm ....

Al

Marlene, This might be obvious but one tip I wish I had know when I switched from common potting soil to 5:1:1 is that you can water the newly planted many days sooner than you would if you had just switched to new potting soil. I transplanted two groups of my plants to 5:1:1. The first group I did not water until around 7 days after and they wilted and many leaves died. Luckily I learned from the first group and watered the second group within four days and they look great with no dead leaves. My Pothos, Hoya, cane begonia and aglaonema are doing really well in the basic 5:1:1 mix. My peace lily wants to be watered every two days now so maybe I made a bad call for that plant. Hope this helps. :)

Musing: The 'reservoir' that provides the longer intervals offered by soils more water-retentive than the gritty or 5:1:1 mixes is in the form of perched water/saturated soil, which we know to be limiting. When we eliminate all or a large fraction of the excess water a soil can hold, we naturally decrease the intervals between watering. The object of this is to provide plants with a better opportunity to realize more of their potential. It's up to every grower to decide what they want insofar as convenience (of extended watering intervals) or maximizing their plants' vitality. There is no wrong course, and the important part of what's decided is understanding what hangs in the balance so each person makes the right decision for him/herself.

That said, there will often be a learning curve when it comes to making the 5:1:1 and gritty mix. Every bag of bark I open is a little different from the last or next bag opened. Since I've learned to operate by looking at and feeling the texture of the soil I make (this applies to the 5:1:1 more so than the gritty) I don't follow a recipe precisely. I make soils like my grandmother made bread - by feel. Other growers in implementing the concept that the soils are based on will also learn what best suits their needs. The 5:1:1 is basically a question of the size of the bark and what % of the bark is in the fine range. The more fines, the less peat needed. Bark that looks like this:

In the end, the more often you have to water, the better your plants will like the soil, There are certainly limits to that statement, and going too far in shortening watering intervals just doesn't make sense, but within reason, the need for shorter watering intervals make for healthier plants. It's up to the grower to decide what length of watering intervals seem reasonable. At the very least, applying the concept of less excess water = healthier plants gives a grower the control over their plants' vitality that was previously ceded to their choice of soil by default.

Al

Danielle, not obvious at all, thank you! I wasn't even thinking of that.

Al, I appreciate this explanation, thanks! I think I am starting to understand water retention better.

I do have another question (I am full of questions!). I found a store-bought version of your Gritty Mix that was recommended by a blog. The soil is http://www.bonsaijack.com/succulent_soil_111_gritty_mix.html and the blog is Succulents and Sunshine. Anyways I wanted to start with that as I have some newly purchased succulents that aren't doing great in their current soils and I wasn't going to have time to make my own mix. But I was hoping to use it for some of my other plants as well, most notably my monstera adansonaii. Do you think it is too acidic for that plant? The website states it has a pH of 5.5, and that Turface is an acidifying agent.

Al..I have a question coming from my sister and others and I couldn't explain it better than you..After all this time , even I have difficulty of knowing if I should water or not when the top is bone dry before the lower half of my pots dry out.

I personally lightly spray just the top of my pots, not fully soaking them and this seems to help, but not sure what your method is..Some add mulch on top while other sprinkle peat on top...

When one uses the gritty or 5.1.1, it seems that the top couple of inches always dry out much more rapidly than what's underneath...How do you prevent the top from drying out too much, especially if many of your new plantings roots are near the surface without having to water the entire potted mix again when the mix just a couple inches lower is already still very moist?

She says she's afraid to water when the lower parts of her pots are not yet dried out while the top is pretty dry..Is there something people can do to keep the top moist while waiting for the lower regions to dry out?

She says she has lost two plants because her roots near the surface died while she waited for the the mix to dry out lower in their pots...The wooden dowel would come out half damp. The lower half of the root ball being moist while the upper half being dry.

Al, I would like to second mikerno's question. Coincidentally, I just got finished examining a foxtail fern that I repotted into 511 mix. The problem I am having is that the top, where the tubers are, dries out much faster than the bottom, where the roots are rapidly starting to colonize. Short or repotting or adding more mix on the top, I can only think to lightly mist the top every now and then.

Is this a matter of potting incorrectly? The sun is super hot here in Az, so the top of all my pants dry out pretty quickly.

I, like mikerno, would love your advice on this matter....

Marlene - anything organic can be an "acidifying agent", as are a high % of fertilizers. The only thing I'd be wary of is whether or not the Bonsai-Jack soil was screened. Few people whose focus is more on the bottom line than the health of your plants are willing to go through the effort of screening the ingredients that go into their particular version of the gritty mix and then discard the screenings. That represents a significant loss of profit to them that they can't pass on to the customer because of the already stiff price they're charging for the mix. It's very likely going to be better than peat-based mixes, but if it's going to support a significant amount of perched water, you're missing out on the most significant plus the soil can provide.

Mike/Lauren - If you see lots of feeder roots in the top inch or more of your soil, you're very likely over-watering - no matter what soil you're using. The reason is, as soils dry, they always dry from the top to the bottom. If you're watering often enough in any soil (except those soils that don't support perched water) to keep the top inch or two of soil moist, you're over-watering. Even in situ plants only have fine roots at the surface when soil moisture supports it. When the upper part of the soil dries down, there are essentially NO feeder roots in the top foot or more of soil. A study of red maple showed that in spring when the water table was at the surface, more than 80% of the feeder roots were in the top 6-12" of soil. Later, in the dead of the summer dry period, up to 90% of the feeder roots were located 18" or more below the surface.

In containers, it's pretty normal that the roots near the top are nothing more than anchorage or plumbing. They secure the plant and provide a conduit for water/nutrients moving upward and photosynthate/biocompounds moving to the roots. Fine roots deeper in the pot where its moist are the roots that dio the plant's heavy lifting.

No matter what soil you use, if you're watering at appropriate intervals, the top of the soil will be very dry and the bottom of the soil will still be moist. Unfortunately, some soils punish the plant if the grower is too heavy-handed with the watering can. If you think about it, the more water-retentive a soil is, the longer the top of the soil is going to be very dry before the next appropriate watering. If you're using a soil that only requires watering at 3 week intervals, the top several inches of soil is likely going to feel dry to the touch for more than 2 weeks at a time ...... unless you're watering a 3 week interval soil at 1 week intervals because you don't want the top of the soil to dry out. Good idea? No need to answer - it's rhetorical.

Water is absorbed a molecule at a time from a microscopically thin layer of water on soil particles or vapor that condenses on root hairs. Water vapor is constantly moving through all but the most compacted soils. In well-aerated media, the water vapor is lost to the air much faster. We generally consider this a good thing because unwanted gasses (methane, sulfurous gasses, CO2, ....) that can collect in soils are also purged via gas exchange. You CAN mulch the top of the soil with fine gravel, or even wad a piece of plastic over the soil to help hold water vapor/humidity in the top few inches of the soil, but it really isn't necessary.

I have a lot of bonsai in straight 1:1:1 gritty mix in pots only 1" deep - and they get watered no more than once each day - no problems.

Hi Al...I get it with non superior mixes which I do not use.

But here is where I feel you did not address my own problem or that of others...

My Examples.....

I planted a citrus tree in a 6 inch pot in the 5.1.1 mix and within a day the top inch was dry, even after I soaked the bark for days while just about an inch down it was still moist. Many of the feeder roots were near the top when I replanted it....Maybe because it grew that way from the nursery? I couldn't bury the tree below the trunk. The root ball sits near the top to about 3 inches down into the pot. That three inches will dry out within a day while further down it will still be moist for longer. Do I still water even though the mix below the roots is still moist???????

I have jade cuttings that are not rooting well or making it because they are in small pots, one inch pots in the gritty mix where the bottom is still moist but where the roots are just beginning or growing, dries out before the end of the day. Many feeder roots and very important ones are near the surface as they start too grow where it gets very dry, even though all the space deeper in their pots is still moist where the roots don't exist just yet. Di I still water or spritz the top or add peat to force the top to stay moist????

I have a new Lemon Tree planted in the 5.1.1 mix and the top 3 inches dries out so fast that if I didn't moisten it within a day or two, it will wilt but yet the bottom part of that pot is still moist. Would you lightly water the top of this pot or drench it even though the lower part below the root ball is still moist?????

So what would you do? Add something more moisture retentive on the top layer to keep the shallow plants in deeper pots alive while they have yet to grow deeper into the pot?

Sorry, I am not alone in struggling with how to keep the top part moist no matter what soil you use, even with these mixes...I lost my most prized Langlois Jade settings due to this issue in the gritty mix. I could keep the very top moist enough in one day to keep the roots alive. My warm over head lights would dry out the surface within hours, especially with a air movement, while just under the top layer still stayed moist. Some of my newly planted citrus trees will wilt if I wait for the lower regions of the pots to dry out, where the roots have yet to grow in, while the majority of the root ball sits higher up in the drier regions of my pots.

Al, so my mother read this and came up with her own plan..What do you think? This way I can encourage others to do the same..

Make a more water retentive mix up, like a 5.3.1 mix and use that for the very top portions of my problem plants and stick with the 5.1.1 deeper into those pots where the roots have yet to colonize?

One part bark, three parts surface, one part grit for my cuttings I'd like to root of shallower rooted plants in deeper pots and then the 1.1.1 mix under that?

I would love to give good advice to the many struggling like I and I want to make sure it's sound...

Thank you

Hi Al. Thank you for the detailed response. I had to reread it a few times, but I think I understand.

Based on your response and my common sense, here's my diagnosis (and please, please correct me if my logic is not logical):. I think I repotted them too high in the pot. I wanted to leave room for growth below and misjudged how high to place them in that particular pot. Now, the tigers (edit: tubers) are very close to surface, which should as you point out, dry out more quickly if I am watering correctly.

My temporary fix:. I went through the soil with the pointed end of thin kids watercolor paintbrush to make sure the soil was settled properly throughout. This helped a bit to redirect the feeder roots inward and more downward. And, I added a mulch/top dressing of bark and perlite to increase the height of the soil at the top. I added about half an inch.

When I checked on the plant, the tubers were perfectly rehydrated and the top is barely damp. So, that is good, for a temporary fix anyway.

If I am on the right track so far, please answer this for me:. Should I repot in a bigger pot or repot and drop the plant down lower in the pot it is in? Or should I do nothing, let it grow and avoid doing this same thing when it's time to repot again?

I am sorry to come to you with more problems. I'm working on getting this down. I will post a pic as well. That may help you help me.

Thank you again.

Here are some pics, Al:

The second photo is with the top layer of dressing removed.

Mike - I just don't see the problems you describe. I don't grow jades, but I have several portulacaria and maintain a few very large jades for customers/friends I've met through my business and during various talks I've given to garden & Master Gardener Clubs. Their plants are all in gritty mix. I have plants in deep pots and extremely shallow pots, growing in the basic screened gritty mix @ a 1:1:1 ratio. I water the portulacarias on average every 3 days when outdoors in full sun in summer, and about every 4 days in winter under lights - same treatment as all my other succulents. They all get replanted regularly and root-pruned hard - I can't remember the last time I lost a plant.

If you repot and the bulk of your plant's roots are in the top few inches of soil, you might have to water daily or cover the top of the soil to keep water from evaporating from the top few inches of soil until roots colonize the deeper part of the pot. That's always been the case - just a part of basic care, and true of any soil you might be using. If you want to add something to the gritty mix you think will retain more moisture in the top layer of soil or change up the ratio to favor the volume of Turface in an upper strata go ahead, you can even use 100% unscreened Turface in the top layer if you want, but I don't expect it's going to make much difference. It's simply the nature of soils to dry from the top down. Obviously, this can't be an issue that only just started happening if you've been using these soils for years, so I'm wondering why I haven't heard about your having this issue before now, and why it's never been an issue for me?

Lauren - your strategy should work fine. Not all plants can be repotted deeper because the cambium beneath the bark/periderm needs to breathe or it can die. You could also temporarily cover the top of the tubers with gravel or something you can remove later after the roots have recovered and regained their ability to function more efficiently.

Al

Al, thanks for responding about the BonsaiJack mix. The website says it is screened and lists a minimum and maximum particle size, so I think I'm going to (nervously) go for it.

Jumping in on the conversation with Mike and Lauren because I'm now wondering the same thing. For me the confusion goes back to an earlier part of this thread where you answered a question for me: "How do you determine when a plant needs water with these mixes? I'm used to checking soil moisture with my finger, but I can't imagine that works with these mixes...or does it? Use a wood dowel rod, sharpened in a pencil sharpener & stuck deep into the soil. If it comes out dry - water. If it's wet, don't."

So, if the dowel is coming out with the bottom half wet, as in Mike's first example, we should NOT water per your earlier advice to me. But what if the plant is wilting because the top half of the root ball is dry, but the bottom half is still wet?

I noted several times in this thread that growers need to be cognizant of where the roots are in the soil mass immediately after a repot and ensure that the soil in that area of the pot remains moist at all times until the roots colonize the lower reaches of the pot. Once roots have colonized the lower part of the pot, you can revert to standard watering OP. This is standard procedure after a repot no matter what soil is used. In all honesty, I usually don't do anything special after repotting - and I regularly do root reductions where more than 90% of the roots are removed.

I generally water very thoroughly after a repot, put the plant in open shade out of wind for 2-3 days, making sure I water daily, then the plant goes to whatever spot that provides the type of light the plant needs. I do this over and over hundreds of times yearly w/o a problem, unless a plant gets blown out of the pot by wind or knocked out by a critter reconnoitering the growing benches.

Al

Thank you, Al. I will go ahead and increase the height of the mulch for now, just a tad. I appreciate your patience.

Al, thanks.

In no way did I question the integrity of the mix itself and you know that about me, and I needed no proof to know how healthy roots systems are in these mixes since I have been using them for years and mines have looked same in most instances . I have always appreciated your help..

I asked you a simple question I should of asked years ago and to this day keeping the top portion of these mixes has always been a challenge for me and countless of of others as they are much more porous and do dry out much more rapidly on top than the standard mixes, especially the bigger the particles get.

At my sisters prodding I was told to ask even at the expense of being embarrassed or getting a very long answer to a very simple question. You get it and so do I )

I managed to decipher what I need to know in all of the comments. Thanks

Al, you are amazing! So glad to have found this forum! Thank you for your patience and all your help answering my bazillion newbie questions!

In most cases, putting a little plastic wrap or cutting a piece of plastic bag and weighing it down on top of the soil for several days after a repot will keep the top of the soil from drying out and get the roots moving deeper in the pot. It's a normal condition for roots near the top of the pot to serve only as anchorage and plumbing, and I see this even more in more water-retentive soils than the gritty mix (witness my photos, which are typical) because the top of the soil remains drier longer than the gritty mix, which usually needs watering every 3-6 days depending on pot and plant size; plus, the gritty mix can be watered when the bottom 2/3 of the soil is still moist w/o your plants being punished for the act.

I realize my replies are often considered long-winded or pedantic to those who read the same viewpoints that change little in anything other than how they're packaged. But the people being helped usually hold a different perspective. (Thank you for the kind comment, Marlene.) In order for me to feel I'm helping to the greatest degree possible, I need to offer context and qualify my answers/suggestions so they'll be taken as true. I think broad sweeping statements that are very often but not always true, require the qualification that illustrates when they are & aren't true, otherwise the potential for the confusion which is already pervasive on the internet is too great, and explaining why I might suggest something offers insight that actually makes the grower say, "Oh yeah - now I get it." Those and the kind words offered by those who have put together another piece of the growing puzzle are the reward I get for whatever efforts I expend.

Sometimes people need to be prepared to learn. I don't mean they need to be in a state of preparedness, I mean they need to be prepared by something extraneous that makes them actually WANT to learn something. Generating excitement is one way, convincing them your offerings are worthy of attention is another, sometimes dispelling a notion that has the potential to diminish their growing experience convinces a person you have their best interest at heart. All of these approaches and others require words.

An outline of the most important parts of what took me 30 years to learn can be acquired by others in a fraction of the time, measured in days instead of years if it's put together so the material reads as believable, I seem believable, and it makes sense to whoever might be reading what I wrote. That is my aim, and a goal that simply cannot be achieved with a drive-by comment or a snippet of broad advice. So now you have another long-winded explanation of why my explanations are usually so long-winded. Hopefully the added effort of being so wordy offers insight into why it's so.

I need a long-winded response. I'm grateful that you have the patience to explain in detail and provide context. No matter how many times I read the very helpful guides you've written, I still find I am slightly confused about certain things. This is because these issues arise once one puts the principles into practice. One encounters challenges along the way --a part of the learning process. So when you step in to help and your response is detailed and expansive, you are helping me to remember the principles behind what I am trying to do and why it is not working rather than simply saying "yes, do that" or "nope, stop doing that." And I've learned a bit more than I knew the day before. Most important, I will not keep making the same mistakes.

I am a prof, and one truism of teaching, especially when it comes to freshmen: students need to encounter a concept three times at least to truly understand it and commit it to long term memory. It is best to reintroduce them to concepts and terms at different stages of their learning process because they need to see it applied in multiple contexts.

I used to worry that my responses to their questions were too long winded. Now, after years of teaching, I know that they need me to repeatedly explain certain things again and again, and that they find this helpful.

So, please don't stop giving long responses if that is what you feel is called for at the time. I have learned so much from you precisely because you take the time to explain things in this manner. And, thank you.

i hope this makes sense. I've not had my coffee yet.

"longwinded"..Poor choice of words at the time. and my bad(

Honestly, at the time I thought you were being a bit over protective of these mixes and that you were perturbed that I was showing a negative aspect about it with my experience, which drew more than a direct response. I thought you were going around my actual problem, not addressing it head on, and that you were more concerned about showing off the roots to your plants and going a bit over the top to discredit my actual issue and knowledge of using proper mixes.. Saying things like " I never have a problem" or "showing me pics of your roots" and saying I am probably over watering, and not addressing the 'actual' issue I'm having in the gritty mix you sent me and the 5.1.1 at the start, led me to believe otherwise, in a sense wanting to hear yourself speak than what I had to say and my 'actual' problem.. My apologies for not seeing the guenuniess at the time. Others have misinterpreted you and therefore their problems with you and this forum. But I believe otherwise and continue to be educated..)

Thank you for giving me tips to keeping the top layer moist and protecting the higher roots to some of my newly plantings, repots, seedlings and cuttings as the roots to some of these plants grow deeper in their homes. where it's already moist in the 5.1.1 and gritty mix) You eventually said at times you have to water daily when in fact, Now I realize that this is something you deal with too....

It was not meant in any way to be disrespectful or unappreciative, and you of all people should know that, since I have been a longtime supporter and thankful of you and your tutoring to this day. I have changed it so no one else would misinterpret it that way).

It seems Lauren got it, my problem, In my first post and was concerned about the same thing too. I'm glad my question and your response helped her too. You will not go wrong growing in these mixes once you know exactly how to work with them. In this instance I wish I had asked this question years ago)

Take good care

Mike - If 2 people are using the same soil and one has a problem while the other doesn't, saying I never have a problem and showing you pictures of root systems that support that contention is a polite way around saying you might want to look at aspects other than the soil. This is especially true when we have roughly the same type of conditions due to our weather patterns and latitude. I also have to be somewhat careful of what I say, because if I suggest 'grower error' too often, or 'the soil was made with inappropriate ingredients', or 'not screened' ........ it looks like I'm making excuses for inherent issues, and that sort of sucks when I know the issues aren't an inherent part of the soil; or if they are, as in this case, they're an inherent part of any soil (they all dry from the top down, roots in the upper part of the pot are in jeopardy of drying out after a repot, and they are eventually going to be relegated to serving as anchorage and plumbing if you're watering correctly). So the same things that work to keep the top of the soil moist if you're using a peaty soil, work to keep the top of the gritty mix moist ...... the significant plus being if you're intent on keeping the upper part of say Miracle-Gro moist, you're going to be over-watering - unless you mist the top of the soil several times per day; when using the gritty mix, you won't be over-watering unless it contains a bunch of small particles because it wasn't screened.

I didn't take offense at the term 'long-winded'. Stuff like that doesn't bother me - especially since I recognize it as the truth. I actually welcomed the opportunity to explain that I don't talk for the sake of talking or hearing myself talk. I try to share things that you or anyone else who reads what I say can use to make their growing experience more rewarding. Very often, I notice readers have 'liked' a post I wrote years earlier (I'm sure you have as well). I think that reinforces the validity of the idea that when I write I'm not just addressing the OP or someone else participating in the conversation on that day, I'm trying to include anyone who stumbles across the info tomorrow or next week/month/year ..... In view of that, I often expand my offerings to include related topics that enhance understanding of the subject matter - which requires more words and longer replies. It seems to work, based on the feedback I get on and off forum, so it's prolly a habit that will continue to wear on a few of those who already understand what I'm saying or might not agree. The silver lining in that is, there is much to be learned from a spirited but civil disagreement if the parties can remain focused on the subject.

Stay well. Hi to Sissy for me, please.

Al

Yes, mike, I totally got it. I have been struggling with the same problem and was so glad you asked it.:)