Glad now that I brought this subject up...sounds like you have interesting views and questions as well. Veilchen-what you're saying about the shorter the canes, the more damage possibility...good point. That is what I was wondering about. Harry-interesting idea about increased hardiness over the years...sounds plausible Digger-had never thought of that (insects on larger bushes). I just know I would love to start with a little bigger plants in April than I usually do. Donna-I forgot, where in NYS are you!? All I know is that it was kinda nice not to spend time I didn't have anyway last fall, cutting down and carrying away all that extra growth...if I knew I'd be doing it all in April anyway. We haven't had that many ice storms (big one about 8 years ago), but yesterday the ice was AWFUL. I FELL down HARD coming out of my house...very thankful I didn't break my wrist as it slammed backwards in Abe Darby's rose bed!! And to think, I was on my way to the doctor's office anyway. LOL :0) Phyl

Graham Thomas and Evelyn will not "climb anywhere" in your climate zone. A shropshire Lad might become a low climber against a wall or in the microclimate a very sheltered courtyard offers. Some Austins that have grown very tall and that I have trained as low 8-10 feet climbers agains east, South and west facing walls are. Teasing Georgia and James Galway and onceflowering Chianti. Austin has introduced some real climbers: Snow Goose and Malvern Hills. Both have flexible canes that are anything but - stiff and upright, but again I doubt they will do well in your climate. The best Austin Climber for your climate is Constance Spry. I wrote about it recently on my blog. Plant a late flowering clematis next to it and you will have something beautiful to look at for a long time. Here is a link that might be useful: Constance Spry

Below is what I notice in my garden of 150+ fragrant own root roses: 1) Own roots that can take high humidity with healthy leaves in my rooting bin, even with constant condensation (water) on leaves & stems. These can take extreme humidity yet have 100% healthy leaves, even with poor drainage if the soil is NOT acidic. Evelyn, W.S. 2000, Mary Magdalene, Christopher Marlowe, Pat Austin, Queen of Sweden, James Galway, Dee-lish, the Dark Lady, Spirit of Freedom, Tchaikovsky, Purple Lodge. 2) Own roots with healthy leaves with humidity, if the drainage is fast, plus liming on top to neutralize acidic rain: Abraham Darby, Crown princess Magareta, Tess of d'Ubervilles, A Shopshire Lad, Radio times, Well Being, Augusta Luis, Sonia Rykiel, Yves Piaget child. 3) Own roots that blackspots with high humidity despite fast draining or liming, and need constant potassium fertilizer to stay healthy: Golden Celebration, Carding Mill, the Squire, Gertrude Jekyll, St. Cecilia, Firefighter, Comte de Chambord. 4) Own roots with THICK LEAVES which rabbits don't eat: Evelyn leaves are thicker than Abe. Tchaikosky leaves are thick like Augusta Luis, Christopher Malowe leaves are thick like James Galway and Purple Lodge. Crown Princess Mag, Strike it Rich and About Face have thicker leaves than Cading Mill. Never see blackspots on Chris, Evelyn, Tchaikosky nor James Galway. 5) Own roots with THIN LEAVES which rabbits devour: Abe. Darby, Munstead Wood, W.S. 2000, Sonia Rykiel, Well Being Golden Cel., Firefighter, Boscobel, and Comte de Chambord. The above are my observation with own-roots in my garden plus rootings in humid bins of Evelyn, Dee-lish, W.S. 2000, Spirit of Freedom, Christopher Marlowe, The Dark Lady, The Squire, Augusta Luis, James Galway, Mary Magdalene, Abraham Darby, Sonia Rykiel, Dee-lish, Golden Celebration, Gertrude Jekyll, Radio Times, Pat Austin, Well Being, Tchaikovsky, Crown Princess Mag., Purple Lodge, thornless Yves Piaget child. *** Princess Anne is touted as very healthy, but as its roots mature in its 5th-year, it's prone to blackspots in my poor drainage clay. Some Austins have chunky & woody root that rot fast in standing acidic rain water like Princess Anne. Some own-root starts out as healthy cluster roots, then matures to chunky & woody (like Dr.Huey-rootstock) and become more Blackspot-prone in later years like Princess Anne. Other Austins like W.S. 2000 have cluster-root (similar to multiflora) that does not rot in acidic rain, thus zero blackspots even as 12th-year-own-root. Leaves of W.S. 2000 and Evelyn have NO blackspots in high humidity rooting bin. Evelyn can take high rain and poor drainage clay better than Abraham Darby (best bloomer for hot & dry and alkaline climate). A Abe. Darby & Sonia Rykiel & Well-Being need a higher pH and all 3 bloom well with my alkaline tap water at pH 9, thus best for hot & dry climate. Below are pics. of W.S. 2000 being healthy, it's right next to the rainspout dumping tons of acidic rain at pH 4.5, note the pale leaves: Below pic. of Evely was taken July 24, after week-long rain, I never see blackspots on it in its 12 years as own-root, if biochar at pH 8.6 is given before a rainy month. Note Evelyn's paler leaves than Abe. Darby:

@Ann Marie, I have a few climbers and ramblers on a trellis and my best advice is to make sure your rose is hardy for your climate by choosing ones that are atleast one or two hardiness zones below yours. That’s the best way to ensure cane survival through winter (right plant, right place). If the rose is near a wall that retains and reflect heat, then I do zone push and have had success with climbers my zone or one zone above. For example, I’m in zone 4b and I have no problems with New Dawn and James Galway surviving winter without protection on a northwest and southwest wall, respectively. As for training the rose, my approach is to tie the canes tight against the support so that it is secure and doesn’t whip around or rub. I do this in the late winter / early spring when the rose is dormant along with pruning so that I can see the rose’s framework. It also means that I’m working with only hardened canes (I never tie soft or semi-hard canes). I use simple garden twine and tie tight double knots. I don’t skimp and make sure the final rose frame work absolutely does not move. I tie the largest, most established canes to the support first, then the rest. I may even tie smaller canes to the bigger ones. Yes, it’s “crossing branches” but so long as they are tied tight and not rubbing, I find it’s totally fine. Key is no movement of any of those framework canes. I intentionally use twine because it blends in, is cheap, and will eventually degrade (since I do this all over again every winter/spring). If the rose cane is really old and has a tough bark and I know it’s not going to expand, then I tie into the support with black zip ties (gasp!). I’ll also mention that optimal blooms form on canes that are positioned between horizontal and 45 degrees. Here’s a pic of my William Baffin climber last year on a wooden trellis.