Roses I'm thinking of getting rid of

7 years ago

Well, I think there are five of my roses that I'm going to get rid of. Evelyn was going to be one of them, but now it is starting to finally bloom the first time this year. I've had it for about 3 years. I don't think we had enough heat this year for it to bloom. It's been cold and rainy.

Anyway, thse are the 5:

1. Jubilee Celebration - I know we've had a lot of hail...but all of the canes are bent over, and then the flowers bend over even more. It's a bit ridiculous. The canes may not be strong enough to survive our weather.

2. The Poet's Wife - new rose this year that has grown a lot. But the canes are wimpy and look like Jubilee Celebration's but worse. Plus the flowers smell like marigolds - yuck.

3. Big Purple - just doesn't grow enough. Short wimpy thing. Maybe needs more warmth than it can get here.

4. Just Joey - wonderful flowers, but the bush is only 1 foot tall after 4 years. No fragrance.

5. Falstaff - well this is a new rose that looked horrible when I got it. I had to cut it down to 1 cane. It's starting to leaf out a bit and has one flower at the very top. There's no fragrance. I'm probably going to keep this one as I haven't given it a chance.

What are your thoughts on these roses?

Thanks!

Carol

Featured Answer

Buford_NE_GA_7A

7 years ago

Rose Canadian, here is a picture of a Falstaff bloom that I thought was perfect. It won a blue ribbon, but the stem wasn't tall enough to win best shrub.

It's a bit less red in real life, more magenta.

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Comments (80)

rosecanadian
Original Author
7 years ago
Wow!!! The first picture is wonderfully photogenic!!!! Mine never looked that beautiful!!!

As to the weather, thank goodness I could distance myself from my roses emotionally or I'd go crazy. I don't know the damage to the yard - it happened in the evening. I don't know when I'll go out to look, cause we're expecting rain, rain and more rain.

Yeah, we have mushrooms growing everywhere. Rain, rain, go away, come again another day far in the future. LOL

Your Big Purple is so beautiful!!!!

Carol
nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
7 years ago
Thanks, Carol, you are so generous with praise. How awful that you can't go out to look to see the damage to your garden because of more rain. It's so strange to think of rain as harmful in excess, but it can be. for sure. I think I might try to grow prize mushrooms in your situation. Just making a bad joke there. The darn mushrooms aren't even edible that grow in yards, either. Keep up your your great attitude, and rain go away. Diane
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User
7 years ago
Send some of that rain over to me here in Tuscany, lol!
lauriescreams
7 years ago
Your Big Purple is indeed gorgeous, Diane! I hope mine won't prove a poor performer - like I said, the perfume is something else, and this is what it's looked like at its best for me so far:

lauriescreams's ideas · More Info

This is my Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, which is in all respects quite similar:

lauriescreams's ideas · More Info
For anyone dissatisfied with BP's performance, it might be a good alternative. The colours are actually much closer together - just photographed under different lightning conditions.

One rose I might give the boot is... Twilight Zone! The flowers so far have either been magenta or a smoky Bordeaux that doesn't contain enough blue to bring it as much into the purple spectrum as I would have liked (or had come to expect from photos). But the worst part for me is that it is not healthy at all. It was a scrawny beast when it arrived in the mail, hasn't shown much will to live, and has become home to a massive colony of spider mites (now hopefully exterminated).
rosecanadian
Original Author
7 years ago
Wow, Buford!!! That is perfection!! Absolute perfection!!! And I love the more magenta color!!! I can see why you won a blue ribbon!!! Stem length - well what can you do about that - nothing. Perfection!!

Lauriescreams - Sheesh, those are fabulous roses!!! I love the colors of both of them. I sure wish my BP would look like that! I need to get rid of this wimpy rose. It doesn't like our weather.

Diane - thanks for the words of encouragement!!! I looked through my window and my beautiful Valencia branches are all pointing to the ground. The hail was just another nail in their coffins. I don't even want to go out and look at my roses. Another week of rain. Like you say, at least I could grow poisonous mushrooms. LOL. At least my sister is in town, so we're going to ignore the roses and shop, see movies, go out for Chinese food and have fun. It was great timing for her to come for a visit.

Bart - I just sent some rain on its way to you. Keep a lookout!!

Carol :)
nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
7 years ago
Laurie, your roses are beautiful, and I would like to grow Goethe, but the Tantau roses that are newer are almost all unavailable in the U.S. and Canada. I've been complaining about this for several years. Only Ascot, and sometimes Augusta Luise, can be obtained from Palatine Roses in Canada. I got my AL from Hortico in Canada several years ago, and it is no longer available from them. You will have to give us our photos fix of these beauties. I would like to hear more about your Goethe, such as its rebloom and size. Tantau's catalog lists it as having huge blooms. Big Purple's blooms were largish, but not huge. Do you grow any other newer Tantau roses? Please share your photos and thoughts about them if you do. Thanks and keep the photos coming. Diane
nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
7 years ago
Carol, I'm so glad you are having a visit from your sister. It sounds like you are having such a wonderful time, and I hope it continues. Phooey on weather. Diane
lauriescreams
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Thank you kindly, Diane & Carol!

To address your question, Diane, Johann Wolfang von Goethe is similar in height and growth to Big Purple (tall and a bit gangly). I have had to support one of the canes, as they are long and the flowers heavy (same size as BP for me). What the photo doesn't completely covey is that the innermost petals are more of a medium red/dark pink, while the outer petals are an intense magenta, which creates a nice effect. And like I said, the perfume is wonderful, and very similar in character to BP.

I have Ascot as well - it has beautiful, uniquely shaped flowers, but the frangrance is not match for JWvG (or BP).

I also grow Heidi Klum, though I don't have any new pics of her (she's taking a break from flowering), so I'll just repost this pic from July:

lauriescreams's ideas · More Info
The flower shape is pleasing and consistent, fragrance is stronger than Ascot but weaker than JWvG & BP. The flowers last fairly long, but their peak beauty - a rich magenta - quickly cedes to a grayish purple.

I don't grow Lavender Ice, but I've seen it in flower. It's in the lavender range, and as in all lavender coloured roses, there is an element of pink and gray to the colour, but both the pink and the gray are more pronounced than in, say, Blue Moon, Blue Bajou, or Bering Renaissance - three roses which to my eyes are a cleaner and more beautiful light purple.

Btw., Buford, the shape of that Falstaff bloom is sheer perfection!
nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
7 years ago
Thanks, Laurie, I think I'm leaning most toward Heidi Klum if I can ever get my hands on one. Your photo is luscious. I have two Ascot roses, and what I like about them is they are always in bloom, the blooms don't fade in our heat, and they are beautiful (I think). Ascot is humongous in my garden and tough as nails. Heat nor cold fazes Ascot. My favorite lavender by far is Love Song (have two). My poor old Blue Bayou is dying--refuses to grow new canes while the old ones fade away. It was an amazing rose for several years, then started dwindling away. The photos of Lavender Ice are certainly beautiful in Tantau's catalog. Diane

Ascot
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
7 years ago
Wow, Diane! I have an Ascot now too, thanks to you and it is coming along beautifully. It has redder blooms than yours but is only 8 months old. I'm hoping it turns out like yours. Probably needs manure this winter.
nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
7 years ago
Sheila, I think that photo makes Ascot look more purplish. It's really a wine red. Here's a better photo. Diane

Ascot
I've shown the pic below a few too many times. This Ascot is in the front yard, while the one above is in the back yard, and so huge it's funny. I call it my specimen plant.
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
7 years ago
I love your pictures, Diane. Mine looks a little anemic, but manure will fix that.
Sheila's garden. · More Info
nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
7 years ago
Sheila, you have faith in manure! Try some Holly Tone or Plant Tone, too, and compost. How old is your Ascot? It looks like it's off to a good start with lots of blooms. Plenty of water helps, too. I feel guilty even saying that with all the drought everywhere. Diane
lauriescreams
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Gosh, Diane and Carol, your Ascots are magnificent! I'm sure yours will get there too, Sheila. Like Diane said, it's off to a good start.

@ Diane: Oh no! Actually, it was your spectacular photos of Blue Bajou that sent me on a hunt for it and made me join this forum. Those photos were formative to me as a rose collector. Mine is not that blue, but I haven't grown it a full season yet. Will you be taking cuttings from yours? As for Lavender Ice, the color really doesn't strike me as mauve or lavender first-hand, but more of a pale, grayish pink - no bueno! The shape is nice and all, but the colour compares really unfavorably to, say, Tantau's own Blue Moon.
rosecanadian
Original Author
7 years ago
Diane - yes, we're having a wonderful time!! She made a birthday cake for my daughter while I made a nice dinner. Family was very happy!!

We had more hail and, of course, rain. This is the worst summer I can remember. More rain all week.

Lauriescream - too bad about the fading and the long canes. But the color and fragrance make up for it, no? Gorgeous blooms!

Oh, Diane, - your Ascot is breathtaking!!!! The color is divine!!! In your next post, I can see the red wine color. Very beautiful and not all that common. The number of flowers is staggering!

Sheila - You have a beautiful Ascot too!!! Well done!

Carol
nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
7 years ago
Laurie, I know I should take a cutting of Blue Bayou. This is something I never do, but I have seil's excellent instructions written down. It's going to be too late if I don't stop dithering. But BB hasn't been blooming, and I thought you were supposed to take a cutting from a stem that has just stopped blooming. Is this correct? Too bad Lavender Ice doesn't measure up to its photos. This is pretty common, isn't it?

Carol, it sounds like you had a great birthday party for your daughter. How old is she? Mine is going to hit 50 in two years and will be as traumatic for me as for her. Could you go on a short trip to get away from the rain? I think I'd consider it, though I normally don't want to be gone when everything is blooming, but.....if your main crop is mushrooms--gack! shouldn't have brought that up again. Thanks so much for your Ascot comments--love that monster rose. Diane
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
7 years ago
Diane, My Ascot is 10 months old from Palatine. I only have faith in manure after seeing your photos. I have yet to use it on Ascot as I scavenged some and put it on Lamarque which was suffering DM or blackspot. I see I'll need compost and Holly Tone too.
lauriescreams
7 years ago
@ Diane: I'm not the right guy to ask about rose cutting, but I do think you have something special there worth preserving.

@ Carol: Actually, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe retains its colour very well. Heidi Klum begins fading to grayish purple after a day or two. Heidi is compact with nicely held stems, while I have seen Goethe grow a gangly cane too weak to support the heavy blooms. Goethe is more fragrant than Heidi. Heidi is neat and reliable but doesn't take any chances, while Goethe dares to aim for the stars, even at the risk of missing.
nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
7 years ago
Sheila, you can mix your manure and compost together if you want to. Check Amazon for Holly Tone or Plant Tone prices if you want large bags. Look for free shipping. Diane
rosecanadian
Original Author
7 years ago
Diane - she is 20 now. (I'm 53) :) She's my baby...my other child is 22. Both girls. :) Yes, we had a great day!! As to the weather - we're supposed to have a couple of days next week with no rain. It was supposed to be the whole week, but now it's just a couple of days with no rain. I don't really like travelling; but we're going to see my parents (3 hours drive) in a couple of weeks - just wait - the weather will be gorgeous then!!! :)

Lauriescreams - I love your descriptions of the two roses!!! Aim for the stars, baby!!!! :)

Carol
Kelly Tregaskis Collova
7 years ago
I love my Jubilee Celebration roses. I have 2, supported with double peony rings but they are just starting to get stronger stems (3 years.) In spring they smell like fresh peaches and now more old rose maybe, but a really good bloomer for us cold zoners...
rosecanadian
Original Author
7 years ago
That is beautiful - I love how weach petal has a small tip to it!! Mmmm fresh peaches. I am giving mine at least one more year, maybe two. :) Peony rings are a good idea!!

Carol
Kelly Tregaskis Collova
7 years ago
Right now mine smell like sweet lemons
rosecanadian
Original Author
7 years ago
Sweet lemons - equally as delicious!!!

Carol
kingcobbtx7b
7 years ago
I'll just say that one year is too short for me to judge a rose. Falstaff is one of my best roses, but it's 1st year wasn't so great. Btw, please do not compare it to WS2000 or Munstead Wood. Completely different growth and totally different color. I wasn't a big fan of Falstaff it's 1st year, nor Graham Thomas, but I love it now.
rosecanadian
Original Author
7 years ago
Kingcobbtx - how do you grow your Falstaff - do you let it be or do you train it around something? Any pictures?

Carol
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
7 years ago
rosecanadian, I just got my Falstaff late this summer, but it's so beautiful and has already put on substantial new growth since putting in the ground. I'm training mine as a climber and think yours would be nice trained up an obelisk or trellis of some sort in the planter.
rosecanadian
Original Author
7 years ago
Yes, I think that's what I'll do. I really wish I knew where I got my tall, squares tomato cage. It's perfect. I could really do with about 4 more of them.

Carol
Holly Webster(7bNC)
7 years ago
I admire those who can SP with impunity! I just can't do it! Sweet Afton & Oklahoma, both own root, have been on the bubble for 3 years. Oklahoma I am giving to a neighbor. Sweet Afton. ..I SO want that rose to do right. The scent is amazing, that soft, barely-there ethereal pink is beautiful, it rarely blackspots in my no spray garden, BUT it insists on growing like a standard, no matter how I prune it, it's not terribly floriferous (compared to its neighbors Cynthia & Eiffel Tower) and in the heat of summer (May to Sept here) the blooms often blow in a few hours. Hours. Not days. My rose friends, you have successfully enabled me to buy roses I couldn't really afford or have room for. ..someone PLEASE enable me to get rid of Sweet Afton! Omgosh! I have to go lie down now. Just the thought is giving me palpitations. .. :P
kingcobbtx7b
7 years ago
I just let it grow free standing.
I transplanted it when we moved last year. It was cut back to 2 ft.
rosecanadian
Original Author
7 years ago
kingcobbtx - look - the blooms are facing up. Imagine that. Good job!

Holly - do you feel bad about pulling weedsÉ (I can`t use my question mark). If you`re thinking that your rose is something living that you don`t want to hurt...well a weed is exactly the same - just better at what it does. So if you can get rid of weeds, you can get rid of a rose bush. Your garden is for you to enjoy. So if a plant isn`t working for you...then get rid of it. Once it`s gone - you`ll see that you won`t want it back...and you can move on with your life. You can do it...if you don`t want it, get rid of it. You`ll be happy with yourself being surrounded by plants that don`t give you guilt and anxieties. :) Trust me. :)

Carol
Holly Webster(7bNC)
7 years ago
Thanks, Carol! I think it's partly how much $ I paid for the roses. With shipping, these or bands cost me $30 or more. That's a lot of money for me right now. I have to save all year, bcs I'm too ill to work right now. And, I have this big streak of "make it work"! I researched & agonized over what rose to buy. I think it's been easier to get rid of Mr Lincoln & Oklahoma bcs o grew up with them in California & how they grow here it's obvious they don't do well or in a hot & humid climate. Maybe I'll put Sweet Afton in a pot...sigh. I probably need to fall in love with another rose that can go there. Palest pink, near white, suprr fragrant, upright growth. That's what prompted me to get rid of Oklahoma. Dakota Redwing became available at Rogue Valley. Gotta have i! Oklahoma gotta go!
Holly Webster(7bNC)
7 years ago
Thanks, Carol! I think it's partly how much these or bands cost me. With shipping to my part of the world, we're talking $30 & that's a lot of $ for me right now. I researched & agonized over Sweet Afton & I really want her to do well for me, but I think it's time to admit SA + NC = Not true love forever. I need to find another very fragrant, barely pink, upright growth or HT that can handle my heat. Oklahoma & Mr Lincoln were not as difficult to get rid of bcs I grew up with them in California & it was obvious to me that climate is an issue. I don't know why I can't accept this about Sweet Afton. Plus, I have a rose picked out to replace Oklahoma. Must have Dakota Redwing! OK must go! Sigh. I need therapy. I am a therapist, so I can tell :P
Dave5bWY
7 years ago
Carol, I've been agonizing over getting rid of Corvedale. It was sent to me by mistake by DA spring of 2014. When it first bloomed I knew it wasn't right but the flowers were very fragrant and semi-double cups. It is 7-8 feet now where I had planned a medium side shrub and is in the part of the garden with apricot/yellow/cream/orange roses - this rose is a medium pink. It is disease resistant. I could move it back a few feet but what to put in front of it to somehow tie it in - not sure. This is a picture from spring when it was a tidy 3.5 feet tall shrub. This decision has stumped me. I have an easy time getting rid of an ugly, disease prone, poor performing mess but this has been none of that.
hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
7 years ago
Best not to judge a rose by its first year performance. If I had done that I would have removed my very best performers.
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Dave, you've now got me looking up Corvedale which may do well for me. I might move it back and either introduce another cream or perhaps even a dark crimson red which works with both your peachy coloured roses and the pink.
jjpeace (zone 5b Canada)
7 years ago
I would say give roses at least 3 years. If it doesn't do well, it most likely won't either. I have had roses that are wimps in my garden but didn't have the heart to sp it. At the end of each summer, I look at the garden and realized that it is a waste of space and energy. I sp my first rose this year and I will continue it next season too. I live in a short growing season and of course I want to enjoy the best things during the short summer months.
lauriescreams
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
I'm not exactly giving it the boot, but had I known the colour of Princess Alexandra og Kent was so unreliable, I might not have bought it. I was expecting hot pink, but it's just as apt to be dusty pink or salmon. It's a fairly healthy rose, though.

Suggestions for a very fragrant hot pink witha high petal count welcome. Perhaps Sir Edward Elgar?
rosecanadian
Original Author
7 years ago
Holly - you know you need a therapist, because you are a therapist. Funny!! I guess you could hold on to the roses you don't want until you can afford a replacement. Some blooms are better than none. :) You may want to think of Betty White...

lauriescreams - PAOK is a gorgeous rose that does fabulously here so far. But...I have gotten rid of roses because I didn't like the color or how they fade to a splotchy color. Be happy. If it doesn't ring your chimes...get another rose. Of your requirements, the high petal count is the difficult part. I'm interested in what others here suggest!!

jjpeace - you're singing my song!!

hoovb - yes, I've had that happen to me as well. But sometimes, you just know - like I hate roses that fade to splotchy. That will never change. So sometimes you know.

Dave - It sounds like it's a rose you want to keep??? But everytime you go by it, it irks you. Your solutions sounds good - move it back and put another rose where it is. The fun part will be finding a rose that ties it all together!! Maybe you could put a Chicago Peace there - it has all of the colors you have in that spot. Although it may be too tall for that spot.

Carol
Dave5bWY
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Vaporvac & Carol - Thanks! Yes, I'd love to keep it - wasn't very fond of it the first year but it has been fantastic this year. The blooms don't last long but rebloom is great and the fragrance wafts through the garden. Bees love it, too. I had thought of putting Princess Anne in front of it (was sent this one incorrectly this year, too - grrrr) but I'm not crazy about it - maybe with time as was the case w/ Corvedale ;) However, Vaporvac, you made me think of Tranquillity and Lichfield Angel - both I have seen and like, maybe Tranquillity a bit more because I can detect and like the fragrance more. I'll try one of these out - thanks again!
Holly Webster(7bNC)
7 years ago
Carol, Betty White? Hmmm. Will def check her out! I just went out to check everyone after the massive thunderstorm w/buckets of rain. There was Sweet Afton, as if it KNEW I was talking SP. Loaded w/buds, the blooms on her not balled & not even hardly drooping w/weight of water. Sigh. Still looking like a rose tree instead of hybrid tea.

How big of a pot would a 4 yr old HT need? I am seriously, truly thinking pot for Sweet Afton. I could roll her into a partial shade in summer & bring front in cool weather. Am I over rationalizing? Maybe. ..I'll ask my therapist. .. :D
rosecanadian
Original Author
7 years ago
Holly - I didn't like Betty White at first, because she had thrips damage all the time. But now that I use the cup/oil method, she's just gorgeous!! And the smell is wonderful!! Isn't that the way it goes - Sweet Afton just flaunting her stuff - look at me!!!!

I guess the size of the pot would be influenced by what zone you're in. :)

Carol
Holly Webster(7bNC)
7 years ago
What happened to my name? It used to say Raleigh 7a after? I wonder how long that's been missing?

Anyway, I am not sure I have thrips here. Have heard everyone's problems with them & the blue cup solution. We have just about everything else here in blackspot central!
jim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Poor Holly it sounds like you have a rough time SP-ing...lol...

Just take a deep breath, pick up your choice of SP-ing tools and go to it girl! Just think of good thoughts while sp-ing the rose bush like the next rose bush will be a blooming machine etc.! :-)
Holly Webster(7bNC)
7 years ago
I usually LOVE destructive things like digging up unwanted hedges, ripping out old carpet. And I like getting rid of stuff like going through closets & drawers. It's just roses. I even think if I got them for $ 8.95 at Lowes it would be easier :P
jim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
On a serious note:

If I dislike a rose for whatever reason I do not think of it as being destructive when I remove it. Most of the time I give it away and its not destroyed so that's a plus... My goal is to have less stress in the garden so I can enjoy it instead of worrying...lol...So I do what I have to do to achieve my goal...
nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
7 years ago
I totally agree, Jim, even though getting rid of a rose has been hard for me. What I've found helps me is to think about the roses I've removed and ask myself, "how often do I even think or remember the absent roses?"; once they are gone, they seem to be "out of sight, out of mind", and the new roses that replace the absent ones have thoroughly become my new focus. It happens every time. Just move forward, Holly, to less stress and more fun roses-- and a happier you. Good luck. Diane
kentucky_rose zone 6
7 years ago
Carol, I just realized that I didn't answer your question earlier in this post. I didn't notice splotchy dark canes on Neil Diamond. He just wasn't thriving, lack of blooms, and BS problems.
rosecanadian
Original Author
7 years ago
Kentucky - thanks! Mine is finally blooming, and the canes are all hidden, so I don't know if they've improved. Mine, though, is only blooming at the top. :)

Diane - so true...once they are gone, they're out of mind. The only difference being that I'm happier than I was when I looked at the rose that was a dud for me.

Jim - less stress - more enjoyment. Exactly!!

Carol