Perhaps part of the problem is that you seem to be dealing with a situation you dislike in a very passive way. You're sitting back waiting for something to happen. Why continue on the same track, it's not working.

If you want help (or a division of the work among others), speak up. If there are tasks you want others to do, talk about it and be specific. Be positive rather than negative, assertive rather than withdrawn, talk about the future and not the past.

If it's important to you then perhaps you need to discuss this with those 'others.' Obviously I know nothing of your living arrangements but you stated that your feel it's unfair. Think about what changes you would like to see and then have an honest, open conversation and express how your feel.

I have said how I feel a lot. Calmly and rationally....

I know my way around a mitre saw...I can do lots of home improvement.

It just frustrates me that if I don't do it, or I don't say something, then it won't be done. It's not just things around the house either....How long can a sock sit on the floor? Why do you need to walk PAST the crap on the stairs...why not take it up with you?

The lack of initiative drives me crazy. Until I have a meltdown. Then stuff changes for a bit.

You can't nag (meltdown) people into doing something they don't care about. Socks just don't bother some people. And the meltdown won't help, it's like beating a dog after he's peed on the carpet, he didn't know or think there was anything wrong, and when he gets walloped he will just hate you, and still pee on the carpet. That is not effective communication.

People do not automatically have the same need for a certain level of cleanliness. Or for that matter, anything else. Socks in hampers are not obvious to everyone, that is not, if I recall correctly, one of the ten commandments.

I agree with Maire cate, you need to have a meeting and spell it all out. And before the meeting you need to think out how to frame your request 'nicer home', 'help Mom' not just present people with a list of chores that they don't see the need for in the first place.

Melt downs and nagging don't work. I did that in my early years of marriage. My dh and I just have an unwritten rule book. He deals with the outside (grass cutting, snow blowing, cars, etc.) and I deal with the inside. It's not to say we won't help each other out, but it sure saves on frustration!

Good advice from Marie.cate and Snidely. You need to communicate with them.....and often.

Well, the sock was just a metaphor actually...

Thanks everyone.

When DH retired and I was still working, I wanted to keep the cleaning lady, but he refused saying we'd have less $ and he'd be home to do the cleaning. I said fine, so long as you do it. Well, when he cleans, he does a great job. But his idea of how often and mine were 2 different things. So rather than nag or complain, I'd take his hand, fold it in mine leaving his index finger out. I'd walk him over to the coffee table where I would use his finger to write "dust me" in the dust. He laughed and got the message.

You have my sympathy! I've been there - still there some days! One thing that worked pretty well for us was all working together for a little while on Saturday mornings. The kids - and even DH - were way more on board with pitching in when we all worked together. (I had tended to do stuff when they were out of the house or in bed for the night, so a lot was "invisible" to them but boy, did it feel unfair to me) A time limit also helped. Five of us working together can get a lot of tidying up, washing, vacuuming done in just a half hour. I like the sense we are all pitching in, they like the calmer, happier mom! (I like the calmer, happier mom too.) The house isn't quite as I'd like it some days, but I know come Saturday morning it will get dealt with and that helps me keep my cool. As they have done more, the logic of certain things (like laundry baskets!) becomes clear on its own. There may be some things that you need to either let go of or do yourself if they matter a lot to you. But remember you are doing it because it matters a lot to you!

Been there, done that and you can talk till your blue in the face but I can almost guarantee it won't help. Sorry, I don't mean to sound like a glass is half empty kind of gal, because it really isn't, it's just that approach doesn't work. And you can trust when I say it's not because he (or they) don't love or value you, it's because it's not important to him/them. Why? Because they aren't the nester, you are. The solution: find a way to get them involved that doesn't make you feel like a nag or look like the bad guy.

I absolutely adore my husband, he's the sweetest kindest man, but to be honest, in most instances, he wouldn't know the word "initiative" if it hit him in the face. Not for birthdays, not for anniversaries, not for projects or anything spontaneous, he's just not wired that way. I learned early on that I wasn't going to change that about him and if I wanted our relationship to grow in a positive direction I needed to adapt and find a solution that didn't leave me feeling like it was all give and on me. The solution? I learned what mattered to him was me and that by simply asking for the help when I needed it or suggesting we do things like clean up and projects together there literally isn't anything he won't do for me. "Honey can you do me a favor?" works literally every time. It's been 17 years and most of the time, we do everything together, the yards, the house, the projects. I give him advance warning that in 20 minutes I'd like to get busy or on such and such a day I'd like to do this.....and we take it from there. He knows it makes me happy and you know what they say about when Wifey is happy. :c)

You're always going to have to lead, that's just part of being who you are, but find a way to get them to help that doesn't involve negativity or martyrdom.

I agree you need to sit down with others. Some homes do chore changing so that way no one has to do things they don't enjoy but they help in doing it all. Like cleaning bathrooms, vacuuming, dusting and cooking and whoever cooks someone else does the clean up. And that includes laundry, bedding and picking up and maybe you need to provide hampers or baskets for everyone involved and that is theirs and if you don't pick up then say what happens, fines or you miss out in clean socks and go without or anything else. Same with toys, and go through the chore sheet daily then and see who has done their chore that day and don't be picky or over cleanliness as long as its done, be happy. Like teaching little ones to make a bed, don't come along mom and do it your way and then they will not do it then as what is the point mom comes along after me and does it her way, she doesn't like what I do. Same with cooking, if they are learning, then give them simple easy recipes to start off or write in easy form step by step what needs to be done. Supervise when need too but again let them do it all not you. Outside chores too should be shared, mowing the lawn, washing cars and cleaning inside them and washing windows and helping with garden, what is weeds and pull and show and then have them show what is weeds, yes, and keep an eye to make sure they do understand what a weed is. Watering too, they need to all learn that its a lot of work cleaning and running a household. There is grocery shopping and those that drive do errands too and given lists and what stores and prices too to look for and make sure they know specifically what you want and have them repeat it back to you. And maybe do a pizza or take out or out to eat if they are doing what they are supposed too, decide if you change once a week to different chores to rotate too or once a month or what?????

There washing floors too, wiping down fingerprints on lightswitches.

kathy

Where were you, lukkiirish, when I needed you???? And only married 17 years. I advise everyone to listen up....I love her advice! (62 years, and I still could USE her advice, because I too often forget that my DH is the same way...can't see the dust, and needs reminding about too many things....I need reminding about this advice!)

Training a child is the responsibility of the parents. So the onus is on us as parents. This is where growing up on a farm and having chores and the responsibility of the care for animals is an advantage.... A place where WORK was one-size-fits-all. My husband was a janitor all through college, and that was great training.

When our two kids were at home, the whole family took part in most of the home activities - cleaning, laundry, food preparation, mowing, raking....at a level appropriate for their age beginning at age two (I read a book on "The Montessori Method" from the library, which helps children reach their full potential and used it as a guide). We all contributed to the need for cleaning and care of the household, so it served our children well to learn how to deal with their portion of the household early in life.

Practice, practice, practice..... It's just not in the genes to do these things automatically when you leave home. It helps to have perfected these skills early and make them good habits. Ask our son who had to teach every roommate he ever had how to clean toilets, mop floors, take out trash, do dishes by hand...... These things have to become a part of your life-skills.

We were all busy, but we found out that if we all pitched in that "many hands makes a lighter load." as the old saying goes. If you have to do a task by yourself - it's nothing more than work. When you share the task it's love for one another and you learn to cooperate with others.

Others have given great advise above. If it were me, I would first apologize to everyone for letting them, and you, down. State what is stressing you out and explain how you are going to handle the situation with a new DIVIDE AND CONQUERE technique. Keep in mind vacuums, dust rags, cleaning cloths, mops/brooms, rakes, mowers, shovels, hammers..... are generally ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL without any gender bias. If you are able to dirty something, then you are equipped to clean it. The two-year old is just as able to put toys away as they are to take them out to play - and that's where it starts.

-Grainlady

You don't actually stay if you are living with roommates or this is about your DH and children.

Sometimes there has to be give and take. Example, my DH is fine with having the mail on the kitchen tale. Sometimes it piles up. But, the table is big enough, so it's not like we can't have our meals on it. My DH runs a business, so this mail is important. He does have a home office, but the system of having recent mail in the kitchen works for him.

I have given up on this one. If we have a gathering and I need the table, he cleans it off.

Kids really don't like to make their beds. I thought it was just mine. Interestingly enough, a co worker was had a conversation with her 30 year old. The 30 year old said that making the bed was generational!

If you are talking about children, you have every right to run the house your way. But, if you let things go this long, I'm not sure how far you will get.

With other adults, unless the situation is not healthy (i.e. dishes piled in the sink, garbage festering etc.) you might need to let some things go.

It is annoying. I find in my blended family(second marriage w/ adult kids living with us) that we see things differently. I hate the coffee table in the FR having anything on it and my DH hates that my nightstand is junked up) We put up with each other because the clutter here or there is not killing us! We do the cleaning together but also don't have a "schedule" because we would not follow it and feel like we failed. We have managed to find a system where we do what we are good at...DH is the dish and vacuum king, He can't put away the laundry to save his life, so I do it.

Not sure I have given you any real advice except let go a little and tell your family or roommates what you'd like.

Just last week I got ticked off about a mess and was good and angry for about an hour....guess what, it only ruined that hour for me!

Perhaps you can let whoever it is who's leaving their stuff around know that you're going to put a box by the front door. Anything lying around where it shouldn't be which is picked up by you will be put into the box, from which the owner is invited to find it and put it away. On trash night the box goes to the kerb with whatever's left since obviously the owner hasn't needed it.

I'm glad that works for you lukkiirish, but it never worked for me. I was as kind as I could be, respected what was important to him, explained what was important to me, and it never worked. Not once. I totally hear what the original poster is saying. Nothing will change, even if you're being nice.

In my life? His idea of helping with dinner, for example, was non-existent. He didn't want to suggest what to eat, get what to eat, prepare what we ate, clean up prep, clean up dinner dishes, or unload the dishwasher. Never!!!! And we both worked demanding jobs. He loved eating it. But nothing. Not one thing. That just didn't seem fair. He also didn't believe in keeping the house picked up, cleaning up after himself, doing any chores, doing any yard work, childcare was more like anti-childcare... I admit it, I'd be happy to be housewife and/or maid if I got to stay home and not work my 50 hour+ week job on top of childcare and house duties.

It was so bad, the day he left, the house got cleaned from top to bottom and it stayed that way. My son, eight at the time, would go around telling people how clean his house was and he'd beam. I had to tell him that was a private thing ;)

My point only is, be as nice as you can, give what is wanted, and you still may not get anything in return. Come complain here if you want. I'll listen to you!

It's easy to train a child, a husband is something else.

My husband and son got back 10 days ago from a canoeing/camping trip. There are still dry sacs on the living room floor, camping equipment in the front entrance, freeze-dried food on the dining room table. Not my mess and I'm not cleaning it up.

I think it's all about teamwork. If your spouse is a team player then compromises are made such as dividing house/yard tasks and everyone is happy. For example, my husband is installing the backyard fence and windows, I am painting the interior doors. I clean the house spotless, he walks the dogs and tries to pick up after himself. If I rarely leave dishes in the sink at night, he washes them in the morning.

BTW- my daughter is getting married! Over a year ago she broke off her engagement to a very nice man who just wouldn't lift a finger without constant nagging. She didn't think she could work, take care of the kids, the house and yard all by herself and enjoy her life. Her new fiance seems to be a very good team player who helps out quite a bit without needing to be asked or nagged.

Am I the only person who laughed in a commiserating kind of way in reading this post? It's an age-old problem; certain family members just don't care about any mess and pretty much nothing will change them, imo. I remember my consternation when learning a child's friend was going to stop by, and things were less than acceptable. As I ranted dd would say, "but so-and-so doesn't care how the house looks." My rejoinder of "But I DO!" didn't mean much, though said child would run around picking things up with me. Unless company is coming, clutter will sit around here until I pick it up.

In my first marriage, I took care of the inside and he took care of the outside...then he was killed and I was left with three small children...7, 10, & 13...and I told them that I would need their help in keeping the house clean, yard work done while I was employed full time. I explained to them that if their clothes were in their hampers and bed made, their rooms were good. Even though maybe sometimes the beds were not always made like I would have made them, nevertheless, they did it. Saturdays meant house cleaning and laundry, and they all pitched in doing their chores...and now they are all grown with children of their own and I have never been to their homes and beds were not made and a tidy house.

Then I married my second husband....oh my, what a shock! Before we were married and went to his house, it was spotless...Yay!..so I thought. Little did I know, he had the housekeeper come on Fridays when I would come! After we were married....I found out he never knew how to put anything back where he got it or clean up after himself. I quickly learned that if it bothered me, I had to pick things up myself.

Now he has passed away and I am all alone. There is no one here to pick up after but myself...

haven't read all the advice, but it seems like there's an emphasis on being nice rather than on getting the job done.

My experience has been that people (not just guys or husbands or kids, just people, everybody) respond as much or as little as it takes for them to stay comfortable without having to change.

When I make "requests", it sometimes happens that the person I'm "requesting" doesn't realize that I'm being polite/non-confrontational;

the person just says whatever it takes to not be rude & then does...nothing.

That polite stuff often just goes under the radar.

When it happens again & again, then we women (so often it *is* the women) feel like we're taken for granted.

because we are.

so then we...politely ask not to be taken for granted LOL!

Men & children do understand simple declarative sentences.

"Pick up that sock."

"Pick up that glass."

If the person nods & walks on by, or acknowledges with something like "I'll get it later", then, in my opinion, you have to boom.

"PICK up that GLASS."

whatever it takes for what you say to make the person hear & believe.

story (can you stand a story LOL?)

I once talked to a big handsome strappin' guy who said yes ma'am & opened doors & so forth, & he told me about his mother.

Here, without any distracting quote marks, is what he said:

My mama was a little bitty woman, & there were 5 of us big ole boys.

We always knew we had to say yes ma'am & do what we were supposed to do.

She'd be cooking breakfast, with her mama's cast iron skillet, & waving the egg turner around, telling us to go get little brother dressed before the bus came, or go get big brother from the barn.

It never occurred to us to not do what we were supposed to do, let alone to sass our mother.

don't know exactly how it all worked, but I remember one time when Billy, the oldest, cocked his head back & said he wasn't going to do something.

My mother never missed a beat;

she turned around & smacked his 14-year-old behind with that egg turner & kept her other hand on the skillet.

& Billy returned to saying yes ma'am.

Sylvia, you pretty much got it.

My problem is that it's unfair how it makes us (women, mostly imho) appear....

I'm the crazy one.

I'm the nag.

I'm bossy.

But dh is the fun one....

It's a guy thing. Unless I ask him to do something, he doesn't even notice it.

You have to be going nuts. Especially if you've already had meltdowns before. If it's the first time it happens, o.k., deal with it, talk about, whatever. But when you have had multiple meltdowns and it stays the same, that says to me they don't care how you feel. I hope that's not the case.

I can tell you what a woman I knew did. She told her DH and 4 kids if it's yours, pick it up and put it away. If you leave it laying somewhere it shouldn't be, you must not want it, and I will throw it away. I won't say it again. And then she proceeded to throw things away! There was no yelling, screaming, fighting, nagging, being the un-fun parent. If it was where it shouldn't be, she threw it away.

They are all adult kids now, and still talk about it, haha. And they learned quickly to put their stuff away.

Have you never heard Life is not Fair? Don't expect it an you won't be dissapointed.

If you've tried discussing it and you've asked for help without getting anywhere then I suggest you hire someone to clean. I know it won't solve all those nagging little issues like socks on the floor or fingerprints on the fridge - but if no one is willing to help out then can you hire someone?

This isn't just about 'fair'. It hurts that no one seems to CARE what you think or HELP you keep house. Don't they RESPECT you?

(In Sylvia's story, those boys respected their mama. I suspect they learned that from their papa.)

I can't really hire anyone.

I am a tough parent, just like my parents were. I have four adult children, three of whom live at home. Of the three living at home, 2 are somewhat like me...but only one of them will take the initiative with SOME stuff.

the third needs to be told and, if not, will not....

I have tried discussing calmly.

I have also tried the trick of throwing things away.

I just really wish that I had the ability to not notice stuff. I wish it didn't bother me. I truly do. It seems easy to have the attitude that I shouldn't bother, but I was raised to bother....

Oh, well there is your solution then. Your adult children are acting like children when they should be adults. Give them a deadline to move out. They are adults, time they start acting like it and maintain their own residences.

Texas_Gem...

The only thing I can say is that you are not in my (or their) shoes.

Let's move along, shall we...?

I think for adult children living at home instead of going through all this and getting upset, could you consider charging them a very small monthly fee each, enough that the $ put together from all of them would pay for a housekeeper a couple times a week?

I don't know your or their situation, but it seems that might take away a lot of frustration and discord if it were doable.

I hear you. For years I fought with my kids about he mess and it seemed to fall on deaf ears. Then I figured out that they weren't disrespecting me but just not getting my message. Now He has t are adults in their own homes and the messiest one is sorta neat and the other one is very neat. But the messiest one went across the country to college and couldn't believe that her roommates didn't know how to organize their time or do laundry or cook and plan their meals or pay bills. So the message was there. Now we are raising a grandson and we are retired. I am not fighting those battles again. I have time. So he has to put his laundry in the basket or I stand there until it is done. He has to bring this dishes up from his game room or I go there and stand over him until he did it. If wet towels are left on the floor of the bathroom he loses two bucks off of his allowance. He has to take care of all of our trash bins and those of our disabled neighbour in order to get volunteer hours required for high school graduation and he does it. I feel annoyed that I have to stand there until things are done but I no longer take it personally and sooner or later things come together. I hope you can get past the resentment as I have and just get it done.

It's a battle I have. It's gotten better. Both my dh and I come from families with hoarders. We recognize the problem and try not to be like that. I've spent some time in the past over at the organizing forum. That really gave me some perspective and helped me make some decisions on how to live in my house without it being a total pigsty. It helps to have structure and a place for everything so everything can
go into a place. I've learned to declutter so there is less to
leave laying around. I mainly focus on keeping the public areas clean and tell the kids if they want to have friends over or not be embarrassed when they do have friends over that they need to clean up in their areas.

I went to a lot of effort to get the house looking nice before we went on vacation. I don't like coming back to a messy/dirty house. I'm happy to say my 16 yo ds noticed. When we walked in the door when we got back, my 12 yo laid something on the counter and ds told her to pick it up because the house looked nice and we want to keep it that way. She did. We've been home for two days and the house still looks presentable.

Thank you Nanny98!. You gave me a big smile!

Rob, it's not about being nice, it's about being assertive and able to negotiate. I had been with someone for a few years and what was his was his and what was mine was his too, my money, my time, my energy. When I finally got smart and decided enough, I swore never again would I be in a relationship that sucked the life right out of me. From the minute my husband and I met, I always made it very clear that I wanted us to be a team in a relationship that was fair for both of us. Yes I was nice about it, but it was also non negotiable and he had no problem with it at all; he just didn't know how to do any of it!

I was happy to show him and as I said earlier, we do everything together. Sure I may wash dishes while he vacuums, but we clean together for each other. Maybe I got lukki, or it's just part of maturing, I don't know but I do count my blessings. :c).

Sure with kids, it's a little different, I was raised in a Navy house and taught early on that nothing is free in life so we always had chores though sometimes getting them done was a little challenging. While I wasn't as strict as my parents, my daughter was helping with chores from the time she could drag toys from her toy box. She always had to help and that's just the way it was but I usually tried to make it fun for her and if you don't start early it's really hard to change a child's mindset.

Granted, every family and relationship is different, but this is what worked for me and I have to say it was much easier than what my mother went through with our larger family. OMG, the yelling, the nagging, the family meetings, setting up schedules with new rules, seeing the disgruntled faces and everyone's eyes glaze over. I still remember them like it was yesterday, they did nothing to motivate or interest any of us into wanting to help or to do a good job.

When my kids were in their teens, I would give them a Summer Chore List that rotated weekly. I liked it because it ended the complaining and the "It's X's turn to empty the dishwasher". Anyway, once after son #1 cleaned their bathroom, son # 2 went in to brush his teeth. I heard son #1 say to his brother "Don't mess anything up in there, I just cleaned that room!!" Wonder where he heard that phase before? it was music to my ears.

LOL, my adult kids have very tidy homes even with toddlers. They come to my house and tidy up :-) I can't tell you how nice it is to hear, mom, where is the vacuum?

I only wish...dh can leave dust an inch thick, yet he made chicken soup, when I did a pill run to the pharmacy for him...I only wish I had the ability anymore, sigh...dishes and the laundry are my primary "do's"....what does drive bonkers are the 6 inch high piles of business papers in the office...I can't see the top of the desk anymore...but when you're retired and consulting now that happens...can't complain as they bring in $...

Our triplex is very small, just 3 apartments. The other male (not hubby) just doesn't 'get it'. He parks so close to the clothesline that 2 lines are unusable. I pointed this out to him, and he said he never paid attention as he doesn't use it. Yet he sees clothes out there all the time, and he has to notice, when he drives in that he's taking up too much room. (There's plenty of parking)

We all share the recycling bins, yet he doesn't squash anything. 2-litre milk cartons, lots of water bottles, cereal boxes, etc. They take up sooo much room, and he's not the only one that lives here. Small things, to be sure, but it's called sharing.

lukk, you just gave me the biggest guffaw! You think I am not assertive? You haven't been watching me very closely ;) HA!!!! Assertive didn't work either. So glad it worked for you.

I find that I no longer do anything for anyone else. If I think the rugs need vacuuming, I do it because it bothers me. I only do what I want done, which means I don't shop, cook or clean for anyone but myself. Dh may benefit from my efforts, but I don't hold it against him any more. I am not responsible for anyone else...
ETA - lowering my expectations for someone else's actions lessens my stress and can actually lead to being pleasantly surprised when something actually gets done. I always say thank you...

I like that, nycefarm. :) Me too.

I'm sorry to read these two preceding sad stories describing family situations that people are unhappy with. Counselling may help. Best wishes.

Can your adult children move out? Can you collect enough room and board to hire a housekeeper? (Is there some reason why they couldn't either move out or pay something towards expenses?)

many years ago, my six-foot DH mentioned oh-so-casually that "I" hadn't dusted the top of the refrigerator. So this less-than 5-foot tall woman got out the stepladder, and hauled herself up -- to find that Himself had written several dates in that dust, to show me that the problem was not a recent one.

I handed the dust cloth to him and left the room.

My philosophy: if it bothered him that much, then he could deal with it himself. It was as much "his" dust as mine -- and he was able to

see it.

It's funny now, several decades later, but not so much at the time... =)

Rob, I hear ya! Some times you just have to kick em to the curb and move on...

Roxanna, my previous husband would always stand over me while cooking, and make comments/corrections. "I'd have done it this way" etc.

He did that 3 times and I told him that he could do the cooking all the time, and he did, for the 10 years we were married.

I really enjoy cooking and love cooking for my current hubby and he loves my cooking!

I must be the luckiest women ever! Our home is not pristine thanks to the kids but my DH always does as much, if not more with a disability that he is recovering from and takes him forever to do.

I do think it is about respect and also some people just are not worried about a mess.

I started out my marriage doing it all. My hubby always had a really good job and I got to be a stay at home mom. I loved it. He worked a lot of overtime so we could have a nice home in the country. Now, at 68 I wish I would have let some of it fall on him. He is a wonderful man and I feel really blessed to have him. But, it would be nice for him to cook and clean, too. It's funny we have another home in the southern part of our state. I don't go down as much as he does. He cooks, cleans, does his own laundry and all there. I guess I have taught him well afterall.