You're asking for a lot and you haven't said what the range is for. By telling us that you're a pastry chef, does that mean that you intend to bake for catering/farmer's markets, etc. (I'm assuming your area allows that)? Baking test items for your work? Just using it as a general home range but expecting better baking ovens than often come on ranges?

I can tell you what a quick search showed only the five burner, 36" Verona for less than $4000.

The other ones I can think of are bigger and way more money.

DF and 6 burners is difficult. Agree with pillow, what do you want to do with it? I would love to find something like that to replace my DF Wolf but I just don't have a lot of confidence in any out there now. I would say if you can, get a separate range top and wall oven. You can pick each part. I am not a certified pastry chef but bake a lot and I have really liked my Electrolux wall oven. I am thinking about pulling out the Wolf eventually and getting BS range top and Cadco oven, that will control the humidity as a second oven. There was someone over on Fresh Loaf that has one on stand that she rolls away when she doesn't need it.

You will get more bang for your buck with an all-gas range. Furthermore, all-gas ranges have less electronics, so less to break. Wekick and I can agree to disagree on this (that's what is great about this forum), but I have baked, roasted, and broiled in both gas and electric ovens, and have found gas ovens to be as good or better than electric. Gas ovens today, with their insulation and electronic ignitors, are not the gas ovens of old which were more variable in temps. I know Wekick talks about moisture of gas vs. electric, but as I've said, I've made everything in gas ovens, and never had a problem, whether we are talking delicate souffles, flaky pastries, cakes, or roasted meats.

Thank you, Everyone for your comments so far! As far as use, I do loads of home cooking for family gatherings and parties, and would like to continue doing cakes for people and some desserts for restaurants/cafes, if possible, from home, since I am now raising my kids. Thank you, friedajune, for your info about gas ovens. I, too, have not noticed a big difference in quality between gas and electric baking in my (only three year) professional experience, but thought that the claims of the electric oven even baking have been so consistent that if spending the money, I should go with that. I like your idea, wekick, of separating the cooktop and oven, but we just don't have the space for that. I was trying to stay around the $5k price or below, but after all the research I have done, it looks like that is not possible, for what I want. If I have to stretch to 7k it will be tough b/c there is still the hood to buy. I think I am in a bit of shock that these simple oven/ranges can cost sooooo much, and I was wishing that there might be something with less "prestige" attached that is cheaper, but good. What about Thor? or even KitchenAid? I keep finding sketchy reviews on these, but they seem slightly cheaper. I wonder if there are good experiences that are more recent than what I have found. I do love BlueStar, as well. Thanks, again, for everyone's continued input!

I bake, and my daughter is an executive pastry chef. I've always had all gas ranges. I see no reason for the dual fuel ranges, just a marketing gimmick. If the oven thermostat has a 'tight' differential, it should produce good results.

I recommended an all-gas range in my post above, but reading your second post, I am wondering if you could eke out the space for the rangetop-separate wall ovens combo like Wekick suggested? That's because it sounds like from your lifestyle you really need 2 ovens. Alternatively, a 48" range with 2 ovens, but, as you note, the exhaust requirements of a hood for that (47-54" wide) will be expensive, and also take up valuable upper cabinetry storage space.

You could post your floor plan on the Kitchens Forum. The experts there may be able to get a 36" rangetop and 30" double wall ovens to fit.

If your limit is 5k, then stick to that. No oven is going to do more, cook more, period. While the high end ovens/ranges are great, and they work very well, I can cook on a $250 electric coil stove. I realize I am buying a high end range because I can enjoy cooking on it more, but I will still eat well if I get a cheap one.

Define what you want... for instance, while I am in an apartment, with a cheap $250 stove, for the love of all that is HOLY.. lol.. I need an oven with a LIGHT.. I want gas.

That gets you cooking. Maybe self clean is important?

Okay, you need two ovens. So, can you get by with a wall oven and a 30" range?

Do you have room for a 60" or only a 48"?

If it is 48", well, then a wall oven AND a range is out of the question, so you need/want a 48"

If you DO have room for a 60", then you can do either a 60" stove (that will cost a LOT more)

You can go with a wall oven and a 30" range with an oven in it OR you can get 2 30" ovens and place them side by side. Either of these two choices will easily get you at the price you want.

Oh, remember, if you choose most of these options, remember to factor in either a plumber for gas and/or an electrician for electrical work to power more than the standard single range.

In many ways I agree with Russ--except for fine baking. You can bake decent home treats in any cavity that will heat up. I used to make great cakes and bar cookies in one of those ring pots with a flue and a solid cover that goes on a gas ring. That's not what a pastry chef can sell to a restaurant however, and ovens nowadays are problematic.

A gas oven with good convection should bake as evenly as an electric oven. Nowadays, as far as I know, all electric ovens rely on convection for even temperatures. That makes for better profit margins.

I agree that a range and wall oven might be the answer for you. There are a lot of bad ovens being made. Wekick mentioned Electrolux--they have a good reputation and are in the price range you're looking at.

Oh, Pl - totally agree. That was why I was saying, I can cook in a 250 dollar oven, so making a choice is not as much about each and every fine nuance that is different between them.

Find the burners etc configuration you like - ya got that (or you may look at a 24" griddle)

Find the price that fits in your budget - I think the BS and Capital tend to fall in a lower price range as may American or one of the "restaurant looking brands"? I looked at them because the prices were within my budget and there are a few other brands, but I found hot doors and other issues the owners were talking about. Now, a lot of folks said they were good too, but I found that sticking with a select few gave me a greater focus on what I needed and wanted.

Stay away from the brands that flat out look beautiful but flat out are outside the budget. There are some BE-A-U-tiful ranges out there, but if you set your budget first.. and stick to it.. you WILL find one. If you start looking at some of the unreal beautiful ones (not naming names as they are fine ranges and I do not want to be disparaging towards them).. you will inundate yourself with choices.

Find the style that fits your likes etc.. i.e. open burner, sealed etc.

Then run with it!

OH.. if you are okay with cleaning the ovens yourself, which I am.. that saves you like 2k bucks... I mean.. hell.. I always hated my self clean, always felt the house was going to burn down while I was gone.. lol. 2K bucks was a big thing. Then (just on the Culinarian).. I saved 1k dropping the grill, like you plan to do. So, on the configuration you are talking about on the Culinarian, hell.. I saved 3k. I got a great vent hood online for 1200 bucks and 2 wok grates and red knobs!... saved a lot of moolah.. heh

And call Trevor.. he sells them all.. lol. I think I called and emailed him like a dozen times till I narrowed down my choices to the top 4.. heh

R

Who is Trevor and what does he sell?

Trevor Lawson at Eurostoves, he sells Capitol,(Capital?), Bluestar again I believe, and probably other brands. Very helpful contributor to the forums here.

I don't know where you live, but baking at home and selling the results to a restaurant or cafe, is against health dept rules most places. I know people who discovered that the hard way - they did a bit of catering out of their homes - really cocktail part fair. A big no-no. They had to rent commercials kitchen space for all they made and sold.

So I'd just buy what you need for family cooking (which can be quite basic) and save your money for commercial kitchen space.

The regulations differ by locality. It used to be very strict here, but they've changed some laws to allow more home made items to be sold.

Since Scottishheart does sell, it's important that the oven have an accurate temperature control and even heat distribution.

I have owned/cooked with all kinds of ranges, gas more than electric and have put on Thanksgiving dinners for 20 on a three burner apartment electric apartment stove. I can still do that but I am enjoying some of the convenience and function of a nice modern oven. I would say if baking is your priority and you have to get a range, then you are looking at the oven first and the burners are a secondary consideration.

Freidajune, what do we disagree on?

Some people suggest and like a gas oven but there are some differences which are important to understand so you can choose well. I would never make the statement that one or the other is always, universally better or worse than the other as always there are trade offs. Ovens and the processes that go on inside are complex. My comments address residential ovens only.

The most important thing you can do is try these ovens out yourself if you can.

Looking at the oven chamber, one of the differences is humidity.

You will commonly find written in books and even some websites that gas is moist heat and electric is dry. This has been the conventional wisdom. This is because they are only looking at the heat source and not the oven as a whole. Electric ovens being more of a sealed system do not have moisture added from the baking element but do hold on to moisture from the food you are cooking and any added humidity. This promotes starch gelatinization at the beginning of baking for things that have to rise. This does not mean you do not have gelatinization with gas but the timeframe is shorter. This will affect the structure and crust of what you are baking.

On the other hand, although gas burners release water as a byproduct of combustion, the oven chamber has more ventilation and removes heat and moisture.

Why do I think this? My experience and the experiences you read about in cooking/baking forums.

1. People complain that more heat and moisture go into the kitchen with a gas oven. I have found this to be true on my house. I have used the vent on a gas oven as a warm spot to hold things.

2. You will often hear "Things brown better in a gas oven yet stay moist due to the moist heat." Things do tend to brown better when they are in a gas oven but not because of moist heat. Read about the Maillard reaction. Water must be evaporated so the Maillaird reaction can take take place and therefore browning. The inside moisture of the meat is unaffected by external dryness because moisture is determined by the end temperature of the meat. You are more likely to get the outside brown and looking done and keep the inside from over cooking with a gas oven. Some electric ovens employ a "convection roast" mode with a high speed fan which is drying and more heat from the top to creat this effect. The dryness of a gas oven might be also better for some baking like cookies or even the end of cakes or bread when you want browning.

3. People who bake bread report much more difficulty keeping a humid environment in a gas oven. Many use a cloche or rig something else if they want that humidity. Many report that it is easier to keep added moisture in an electric oven but it might not be so great for the electronics.

Another thing to look at is temperature. Plllog has hit this nail on the head in the last post. This has two aspects to it. Some manufacturers of electric ovens tout a very tight range of temperature with a variation of only 2F from the set temperature. For most baking, you are probably OK with the conventional 25F difference but it becomes more important to have tight temperature control at lower temps. There are a few electric ovens that can go way off of the set temperature. I mean 50-150F off. It is important to note the range of temperatures the oven will do.

The other aspect is how even the temperature is front to back and top to bottom. Can you bake on all the racks at once? This depends on how the oven is engineered. When an oven is fully preheated, the walls radiate heat and contribute to evenness so it depends some on the physical build. Some ovens use a convection fan to even out the heat but because it moves more air adds a little drying and accelerates heat transfer from all directions so things also brown a little faster. Additionally, some electric ovens have a third element in back which in theory is supposed to provide more even heat when using several racks at a time. Sometimes they get this right but sometimes using "full or all convection" gets you a high speed fan and immediate heat from the back element and you get hot spots. One gas oven, the BS platinum only has a back element, so no heat from the bottom at all. This requires the convection fan to run whenever the burner runs. Many recipes were developed with heat from the bottom so all of this can change the way things bake because the direction of heat is changed. One advantage for some electric ovens is that the fan can be slow or high speed. This is almost never mentioned in the use and care manual so you have to dig around and find out.

Some electric ovens also various modes to add more heat from the top or other directions to provides different environments. Miele and Gaggenau probably have the most but are expensive. Computer boards are necessary to control the fan(s) and heating elements, which some do not like. These computer boards can be a problem with heat but the cooling-fans seem to be beefed up a little more these days.

With some of these things, it is hard to quantify the effects because baking is complex and there are so many variables. Evenness of baking on something like cookies might show up more on cookies with a higher sugar content. If you bake in one type of oven, you have likely discarded any recipes, bakeware, etc that does not work well for that oven. I have read many posts on cooking forums where people had baked a long time on one or the other and when switching from electric to gas complained that their cakes were dry and did not rise properly. I have also seen posts where people complain about the condensation in an electric oven. There was a chef on one of the baking forums that bakes cakes or muffins for half the time in standard bake to allow heat from the bottom and better starch gelatinization for the best rise and half on convection for browning at the end. There are plenty of people who are happy with gas too and like the simplicity.

Some other considerations.

Broilers are very different in gas and electric ovens. Gas can have regular gas broilers and a lot of the heat is lost. It might have infrared so very even and hot but smaller. Electric broilers tend to be much bigger but not as quite as even or hot. I tend to need the broiler for larger trays so the electric broiler is more usable for me but others prefer the gas infrared broiler.

It might come down to an oven being able to hold a full commercial sheet pan. I think in a 36", this would be BS, Culinarian, some American ranges, Monogram and maybe DCS.

I have recommended Trevor Lawson twice on this forum in the past couple of weeks as a vendor to buy either BlueStar or Capital Products, because he takes excellent care of his customers, but I have never seen him recommend anything but BS and Capital. I personally believe that people have a lot of different needs so might vary from the those two product lines.

If there is any way you can post your layout on the kitchen forum, as Friedajune suggests they may come up with something. I think Electrolux or Bosch electric ovens could be a pretty good option.

lol! Before I scrolled up, I knew it was a wekick post :P

I cannot agree about Trevor only recommending a BS or Capital, but only because I have not read all the posts...but I do believe they are the best quality in their price range, from MY research and for MY needs only.

He would probably find more recommendations if your budget were a lot higher as there are tons of great options out there and they sell lots of them.

A layout would definitely help, maybe with some measurements?

R

I think Trevor has enthusiasm for American built, powerful ranges in the accessible price range, but sells a wide variety, and is helpful to all here. He is very generous with his time and knowledge, and will also sell outside of his local area and add his knowledge to the deal.

I don't know the science of it, but in my own fairly limited experience, I agree with Wekick's points. :)

I will add to pllog's post in that we went with Trevor because he took the stress out of ordering and if I DO have an issue, he will make sure that we are taken care of. How do I know this? Well, I do not.. but I can tell you he went out of his way to help a few folks on here that did NOT buy from him... and, well, I can only imagine how well he will help when I do.

GL:)

"Russ

lol! Before I scrolled up, I knew it was a wekick post :P"

Russ, Russ, Russ, you and your Q signs on my posts.

I know my posts are longer than what you like and they contain things that might be different than the "research" you received but believe it or not this being a public forum, some people have varying opinions and this may be a surprise, but some actually read and get information from multiple sources. Rather than just making faces at my posts when you don't like them, why don't you make a point of disagreement and say why you disagree or don't like.

"If your limit is 5k, then stick to that. No oven is going to do more, cook more, period."

Are you serious? Yes many ovens do MUCH more or less than other ovens in the same price range. Most people have a budget for their kitchen but after they look at all of their options, someone might come to the realization they do want to spend more on a range if they want a particular option. They might also decide they can be happy with something that costs less. Ovens have little quirks and things that may make them unique. That is the whole point of having an appliance forum.

"I cannot agree about Trevor only recommending a BS or Capital, but only because I have not read all the posts"

But I have.......for about the last 10 years or maybe more. I don't recall it. Maybe you can find one. What would you say from the posts you have read?

This is not necessarily a bad thing as he is doing his job. Anytime someone has something to gain though, the information becomes biased. My husband is in sales and chooses the products he wants to represent for a reason so believes strongly in them. My guess is Trevor does the same thing. If you talk to either one of them though, they are there to promote their products.

"..but I do believe they are the best quality in their price range, from MY research and for MY needs only."

Great, that is what is hoped for people in this forum. Here's to your range, when you get it, being everything you have dreamed.

But I'm not sure what's up with the faces on my posts then. Other people want to make their choices too. I am just giving them some of the things to think about so they can get an idea of what things are available and why. Many things you read in marketing on websites is flat out wrong. My background is in the sciences to I think it is important to have clear terminology and understand the science behind what you are cooking. Our understanding of these things has increased tremendously starting with Shirley Corriher's Cookwise, but there is so much written now.

"He would probably find more recommendations if your budget were a lot higher as there are tons of great options out there and they sell lots of them."

Here are the ranges he sells, at least on his website.

Eurostoves Ranges

" if I DO have an issue, he will make sure that we are taken care of. How do I know this? Well, I do not.."

Had you read my posts, you would see that I have recommended him many times because he takes excellent care of his customers. He has contacted manufacturers many times on behalf of people posting on this forum with issues with Capital or BlueStar and gotten issues resolved. I have mixed feelings in some cases in that I like to support local dealers when they provide good service and have the product there to look at. In my case I would never again deal with the local dealer who carries BS so would find myself ordering from Trevor. Trevor used to have a deal where if you flew in to try the BS or CC, they would refund your ticket if you bought from them. I am not sure if they do that anymore. They also offer a longer warranty on BS and CC than the manufacturer does. You might not have to pay sales tax either.

Wekick : I was not saying anything derogatory on your posts, I just said I knew it was you. I read all your posts that are in threads I post in.. relax.

I am fully aware this is a public forum and your posts have good information in them.

carry on.

I also have no idea what "Q signs" are.

Having re-read your post now, I would say, for once, that while many people seem to have different opinions, you just spend all your time trying to out talk everyone.

Your opinions are good, but so are mine. Whether this is a public forum or not, how about you spend less time going on and on about how other people are wrong and you are all knowing.

Your input is wonderful, when it pertains to facts and the topic. When you spend half the page trying to discredit other people's ideas, you just sound like a know-it-all ass.

I do not care what you recommend, I do not care if you have a difference in opinion, state your opinion about the stoves you know and stop spending all your energy trying to discredit every single line of someone's post that is trying to help the OP. As I stated earlier, I only know what I have researched, nothing else. I make no claims on anything, just trying to let the OP know I went through the same thing. NOTHING you say can make that or my opinion less valid, so.. shut it.

Oh, I forgot, I should have said Wekick, Wekick, Wekick.. in the same condescending tone you use.. that makes your point less valid because no-one wants to read them after that.

Have a nice day.

OP.. sorry for the rant. I wish you all the luck in the world in your search and look forward to seeing what you get.

Russ

@Scottishheart - Wanted to add this and since I cannot message you, here ya go.. heh

I am going to give you a few links. Again, this is how "I" did MY research because although Wekick can be lengthy and, yea, he tends to dig at anyone that disagrees, his information is very good and extremely in depth. That said, this is exactly why it can be confusing. It is fun to read his stuff and you will soak a lot of it in, but the real thing is gives you, in my opinion, is the idea that cooking is a science as much as an art.

So.. here is how "I" weeded through the science:

Video #1

This next link is to Eurostoves. Again.. not selling on the company, there are a lot of videos and a LOT do not pertain to you.. but what you do want to look at are a few of the ones where people that went TO Eurostoves talked about using the Culinarian. Now, it is not about them or their review, but what "I" noticed was....how many people do you talk to when looking for a stove that actually USE them? I am not talking about the owners, I am talking about the people you plan to buy from.

Eurostoves Link

Now, the second thing you want to look for on that same link, are the information videos.. there is one in particular you need to view and let me get that one for you:

Here it is Heat Distribution

Okay, the important aspect about that is the fact I hate cooking bacon or other stuff and you have to move the food around or one thing will burn and another will not cook. Remember, it is as much about the pot as the stove, but watch that one.

Now, why did I buy from Eurostoves? Because when I was looking and narrowed it down, I could have bought from a distributor in Dallas, but the folks here helped me and when I mentioned I was concerned about service after the sale, I got a call from Capital, the man that handles ALL Capital service calls. I had not bought a stove and would not have bought the stove for almost a year and I got a call to ensure me they would take care of me AND gave me 4 phone numbers to local people that would handle the call.

The Dallas place does not even read this site and they had to transfer me to someone that had to look up the stove I wanted.

So, find a stove you enjoy. Cooking is about fun. I am a State employee, not a huge money maker. This was like buying a car for me. Everything in my house was focused on this stove and this kitchen. I totally get where you are coming from and all I can say is get what makes you happy, but get it from someone you know will take care of you after you get it. Peace of mind after you spend the kind of money you plan to spend on a stove... that helps you sleep well at night and when you get up in the mornings, all you want to do is cook on it.

Holler if you need anything else and I expect to see pictures no matter what you get ';)

Maybe Wekick can link some videos that he knows of that are of another party so you get more ideas than just Eurostoves, but those links are pretty good, imo.

Russ

@Scottishheart - Back to your budget. I am told Fivestar also makes a good stove, but do not know a whole lot about it. That is closer to your $5k budget than the $7k, I think. While I do not know a lot about it, I did look very closely at it. There are pros and cons about all of these, you can get a lemon or a diamond in any of them. Stick to a salesroom that sells them and knows them and will find your service people (a few of them in case one goes out of business) BEFORE you buy. That is the key here.

Don't drop something else to bump your budget. A kitchen does not have to be about the biggest and greatest... remember, you can cook on a $250 stove. Fivestar is right up there with any of the stoves you are looking at and above many.

Sorry, I got off on talking about MY experience, I totally forgot your budget issue. You can get an awesome stove that is a lot closer to your original budget. Look at ajmadison and use that as a litmus test for the budget and burners. It is non-bias and will help you narrow down your search. I put in 6 burner, 48" gas range and it came up with a lot of choices. Then sort lowest to highest and start there.

The videos are still important as they will help you understand the type of range you want and what to ask for, but your budget is first and foremost your main goal because you do not need the stress of all the other aspects available outside of that.

Russ

Wow! Loads of info and things to consider. Thank you, Everyone! Now that I am over the initial price shock, and I am considering all of your input, I have become firm in my 5k range decision. I feel fortunate to even be in that price range and I need to keep things relevant to my overall remodel budget. Looking at what is out there, it is clear that you can spend as much as you want, and not necessarily get the "best" range for your needs. I feel that to go above a certain price point, would be to just encourage the false inflation of range prices even more. Though I realize that 5K is a huge outlay for a range, I want to be a responsible spender. I am looking for good performance and a size that will enable me to do the cooking I need to do.

I am still considering the Blue Star. Also on my list is the KitchenAid 36" six burner range (but I'm a little nervous about the digital oven controls creating just more to go wrong) and the AGA Professional Series b/c, surprisingly, it is near my price range and sounds like a well performing range. Does anyone have input on these? Russ, I am not familiar with Five Star, and will look into that, thank you. Wekick, thank you for all the details you shared. I am very interested in the science behind cooking and love learning more. I have heard negative things about the Culinarian, but have not done enough research on that range yet. In my pro work, I have used both Capital and Garland, among others, but I'm not familiar with Capital's residential lines. The negative things I've heard have to do with burner ignition issues and problems with the oven temps, as well as Capital's customer service. I'll need to make sure my area (Baltimore, MD, for the foreseeable future) has service available for any range I am thinking about. Thank you for the suggestion regarding posting my plans. If I can get a clear copy to post, I will do so. The thought of advice from experienced pros has inspired me. After two years of moving around cardboard cutouts on scaled drawings of my own, I am quite certain that the wall oven idea will not work. Our wall space is minimal due to windows and doorways in all directions with no good options to close or redirect those openings. Thanks, again, Everyone, for your ideas and help. I will keep looking and keep posting here as I learn. Trevor seems a great resource. Not sure if he can help me here in Bmore, but I will search him out. Look forward to more input from you all! Cheers til next post!

I think I got your post confused with another post asking for a 48" stove. There are tons of great choices in your price range.

I think a lot of the "cons" of the ovens are old ones as I did not find a whole heck of a lot of newer posts and those were all like, "oh they fixed that".. etc.

I do not think you can go wrong with the Bluestar. I really have not heard anything majorly bad about those. I still think Capital is worth looking at, but you are right, the service was my concern and I read a lot on that, but like I stated, they called me months before I bought and gave me a list of service people etc.. so, talk to them and call around, I did.

Either way, forget Fivestar. If you are in the 36-inch stove.. stick with Blue Star or Capital as your top two picks.

I like the grates and open burner of the Capital, but Blue Star would have been my fallback, easy.

I don't know a lot about the Aga Pro, but others of their lines have good ovens, so this one might as well. The BlueStar is more known for the burners than the oven. It might help a lot if you found showrooms where they're installed and you can try them out.

"scottishheart

Looking at what is out there, it is clear that you can spend as much as you want, and not necessarily get the "best" range for your needs."

This is so true. This is why it is vital to understand what you are buying especially if actual function is important. I find very little difference in my Wolf and Electrolux ovens. They have about the same functions though but a big difference in cost. When you go to Gaggenau or Miele, you pay more but you are getting more in the way of modes, which allow more choice in direction of heat and air movement. This also comes with more of a learning curve. I have to say the idea of a combi oven is intriguing. I also like the idea of the Cadco oven that can add humidity and is can be sized for commercial baking trays, quarter, half or full.

"I am still considering the Blue Star."

They have more than one line. They have the RNB with a star shaped, uncapped burner with an open burner tray and the RCS with lower BTUs. They also make one with capped ring burner and sealed burner tray. If you are interested in the ring burner, BlueStar also makes this. There are some threads on it.

Big Chill Pro

Rick Bayless uses a Fivestar. The company has some different ideas. Their DF range is 48" and they call it a "true" DF in that it has a gas oven and electric oven side by side. For the 36" you can choose the burners and what type of oven you want. They also have a very low BTU simmer depending on the burner it would be 350 or 400 BTUs. This compares to Wolf or Thermador. Many ranges list their simmer in temperature in degrees which is meaningless so you cannot compare. The problem I have noticed though is that Fivestar tries to get a huge range of BTUs in one burner so you do get a lot of flare of the flame on the highest heat. Wolf and Miele avoid most of this flare with the dual stacked burners. Thermador gets the low BTUs by cycling on and off.

Capital has a lot of fans too. I would choose the all gas over the DF.

Not to muddy the waters but anyone buying a new range should also consider induction burners. People that get them love them for the most part and would not go back. They have a huge range of heat and great control and less waste heat. Clean up is very easy. You do have to use specific cookware. I just bring it up because you should at least consider it even if only fleetingly.

If you go with the AGA, I would love to hear about it when you get some experience with it.

"After two years of moving around cardboard cutouts on scaled drawings of my own, I am quite certain that the wall oven idea will not work."

Some people put a wall oven under a countertop and some under a cooktop and maybe a rangetop. Not every combination works though.

This book was recommended on this forum years ago by a chef I think and many of the ideas hold true now. I found it to be very useful. There are some inexpensive copies on Amazon.

Kitchen Design With Cooking in Mind

Hi Everyone, it's been a while and we are now coming close to construction time. I have not yet made a final decision on the range, but am very excited to do so. I have added the 36" GE Monogram to the mix. It seems to have all the features I want within my price range, as well as easy parts and service availability. I'd like to have a good control simmer burner on the top and an oven with a proofing/low setting for breads and meringues. The dual fuel bumps it out of my price range, so will most likely have to go with the all gas model. Does anyone have experience with this oven (dual or just gas) and/or with GE customer service? I find my price range has limited my choices (which is not necessarily a bad thing) and I want to get the most I can for my money. Thank you for any help or advice!

I don't have those models but I do have all GE Profile appliances at our vacation home and I can comment on GE service. My side by side refrigerator simply could not keep the refrigerator side cold. The temperature would vary from 32 to 47. Fortunately I had purchased the extended warranty and after multiple phone calls and visits from technicians they finally replaced it. The new one has worked perfectly.

My GE 30" wall oven has been a champ. No problems at all.

GE replaced the dishwasher when it was 12 years old during a massive recall. My model was included in the batch that had faulty wiring which might result in a fire.

I don't know if this is significant but GE has been trying to sell their service and appliance division for years. Last year Haier purchased it.

https://www.cnet.com/news/its-official-ge-appliances-belongs-to-haier/

Thank you, maire_cate, for the info. It is disappointing that these appliances may not be made in the US in future. I wonder what that means for parts and service from this point on forward. Hmmmm. I will def consider this in my decision.

Scottish - take this as me trying to help, not being sarcastic and not being mean. I will sit here and talk for hours and pages of this thread and enjoy all of it.. *grin*. but let me make this, or try to, easier for you.

We lived in an apartment for 15 months waiting for our new home to be built. We expected 6, but it turned into 15. During that time, I had a laughable electric coil stove. It had no oven light and was as cheap as you could get.

It cooked perfectly fine. Wile I lamented, just as you did, to pick the right "thing" for every appliance, I cooked pies, made sauces, had good meals on that stove.

By the way, don't tell my wife I said this. I will delete the entire thing.. lol

Now that we are in the new house, I am having a BLAST with my Culinarian 48" I have used the wok, both ovens (finally) at once, 3 or 4 burners.. etc, and I have not even made it blink.

The fan comes on keeping it cool.. and does not turn off till it feels like it. I figure since it is cast iron, it keeps it heated and cooled evenly so it does not cool wrong and crack...i.e. it lasts longer, so I do not care about the fan issue.

I have TWO Bosch dishwashers and one is already broken (the door keeps popping open).. and I do not care.

You can get anything you want.. but the key is to get something you can fully use and then have fun with it. Do not lament too much over what-ifs.. they will happen..guaranteed.

Figure out what works for you and run with it and start enjoying that. Don't stress over the small stuff, they will always work themselves out.

Thank you, Russ. It is easy to get carried away. My worry is the huge outlay of money that took us ages to save. I feel like I am buying a car! I want it to function efficiently and last for a long time, and I want to enjoy using it. So, your advice is well taken. You might be saying (and I'm sorry if I'm wrong in this assumption)...Life is too short to let something like this take up sooo much time, just enjoy! I totally agree. Thank you!

First off.. keep chatting with me, you are giving me stuff to do today and it is one of those days.. lol Let's see what all you are looking at and what ya like.

(I wrote this part after so you got to it.. heh)

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Well, I have only had my Culinarian for a month. I have not begun to crack the surface of what I can be able to do with it. I may never have .. no.. I did not need this stove.

Every time I go in there...the kitchen... it is like "new car smell" just to look at it.

What I am saying is you may get a lemon, no matter what you buy. Focus on what you like and not what you do not like.. get something that makes your heart skip a beat when you think of using it.. heh.. then, max out the warranty.

If you buy it, make sure it has a rock solid warranty and, frankly.. I got mine because of Trevor Lawson. I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, after reading so many posts here and talking to him, if I had an issue, I can call and speak with him and he will make sure someone takes care of me.

Set your mind at ease. The key is to know that IF there is an issue, you have someone to call.

After that, enjoy what you get.

You are so right, it is hard to save up this money. I work for the State, so money is not a thing I have a lot of. I got this stove because I could add it into a home loan, otherwise, no way I could ever afford it and I worried like you did till I found someone to go through to do the worrying for me.

Let me go back and see what it is you were wanting and see if I can offer insight on any of it. Sorry.. forgot what the thread was about.. lol

Okay, 40" max.. and 2 stoves.. wow.. did not know they built something like that.. What models have you found that you like? Let's talk 40" stoves a bit and see who can make you a deal to take care of you.

R

I see the 36" GE Monogram and wow.. that sure is a nice stove. I see lots of folks that like it, high ratings. If a 36" stove like that was in my budget, I'd say jump on it.

Lots of good features and that is a rock solid model.

Hey, remind me.. what is your price range? I never looked at the 36" ones, quite a good selection if 6k-ish is your price range. Sorry! having fun looking at them.. lol

If you are already set on the GE, go for it. I looked at a lot of the sites and nothing but good things about that model.

I like open burners.. love them.. but they are not for everyone.

R

Wow, one of those days? I hope it's going okay.

Yes, that Monogram seems like it will give me a lot for the money. I am trying to stay around 5K. Unfortunately, it seems going to 36" from 30" puts me in that sort of price range. I really want burner control (don't necessarily need the most powerful). I'd like the oven to go to a low enough temp to do meringues or dehydrate or proof. The convection needs to be good for all the baking I do. I decided that two ovens might not be the most important. I need the ability to bake large quantities more than I need two ovens. Plus, my Mum gave me a Wolfgan Puck (sp?) counter top oven to help me along. - Thank you, Mum!

There seems to be some sort of rebate going on, if I buy the GE. Just wondering if that is because the appliance branch was just sold. That sort of worries me for service down the road.

Do you mean open burners as opposed to sealed? What do you like about the open burners? This model seems to have sealed burners. The GE burners are not my favorite shape/style. I prefer the star shaped flame, but the GE has the dual flame on all the burners. That seems a bonus that may out weigh my desire for the star. All are 18K btu, as well. Because of the dual flame, the simmer seems really low and that's a plus for me (for chocolate and custards, etc). Still trying to get some feedback from people who have used this range. Most of what I find is from those who have just purchased the range. The only cons so far seem to be difficulty cleaning burner grates.

How is the oven on your Culinarian? I have considered this range, but can't remember why I didn't move on it. It looks great. Thanks!

Opened burners, just in MY mind.. seem to allow more control. Sealed burners, again, all this is my opinion so take it with a grain of salt, were really designed for people that don't want to make a mess when they cook, period. They are not efficient and I think deter from the ability to create a good even heating distribution, which can keep you from being able to regulate a flame enough to do low simmers.

Don't worry about a company like GE being sold. So much else to worry about.. it is GE.. as long as you have a good warranty, it'll get fixed if it has any issue.

Ya know, the Bluestar comes to mind... that is a hell of a nice range. I think the I think the Culinary 36" goes for around 4k. Again.. remember, my opinion only.. and I do not work for Eurostoves etc.. but, if they sold it, I'd get it from them simply because they beat every price I could find AND.. when you have an issue, you can call them.

The culinarian jumps it to like 7k.. so out of your price range, but I think they have a Precision series with open burners for like 5k. Since I have a Capital, I can tell you, dealing with them and with Trevor.. I always get someone on the line.

I know there are folks that say they cannot get any help, but I had Captial people calling me and reassuring me for months before I ever got or bought mine.

For you, it is about price and that is totally good. So, I would seriously look at the Bluestar and maybe the Capital Prescision. Call up Trevor at eurostoves and ask him about comparisons and see what sort of price you can get.

BUT.. if the GE is what you like, that too is a solid choice and don't sweat the warranty / transfer of the company. I would, however, not "settle". If you do not like the burners, you will not like the way it cooks. Cooking is as much about FUN and loving what you have to work with as it is about the quality of the item you purchase.

Cooking, to me, is something I look forward to. I know that if I had settled for something else, each time I cook I would, in a small way, remember it was not my first choice.

Go with what you love.

R

Just going to add a small comment on sealed burners -- my DH wanted the sealed burners, mostly for not having spills below the burners to clean up and also because he didn't like the different grates on the open burner version. I also thought the open burner grates were less attractive and went along. Our cooktop is a Wolf 6 burner rangetop with sealed burners. I don't have any issues with controling the flame or a good simmer. In fact, I can melt chocolate with direct heat (not a double boiler) and walk away without a problem. What I can't do is take the darned thing apart for cleaning. Yes, it wipes clean, but anything that spills often cooks on to a degree before you can clean it. And my guys were not always good about wiping the stove if something had not been cleaned from a prior use yet (you have to let it cool a bit). I found a cleaner that works to get the rings clean now, but I might opt for open burners next time. Both work well, just have some different issues.

Thank you, lascatx. That info is very helpful!

@lascatx - most definitely correct. I had sealed burners on the last stove and it cooked just fine. They could never be cleaned.. heh. I mean, I could make them look fine, but they flat out, to me, did the opposite of what they were intended for, make 'cleaning' easier.

I'm wondering why the GE Monogram doesn't get any mentions in this forum? I can't seem to find any user info. I originally wanted a Blue Star, but they have changed the model in my price range so that it no longer has the same power or set up. I suppose I am trying to compare the Monogram to the Blue Star RNB series. I think the RNB is more expensive than the Monogram, but it seems to have fewer features. Not sure why the price difference. Does anyone have some insight?

Call Trevor, he can tell you anything you want to know about the RNB. Does not cost anything for the call and you are not committed. He is an expert on it.

The answer to the other question is.. well.. kitchen snobs would be mean to some, but I am proud of it...lol

I am a food snob, actually, more accurate. When you get to the level you seem to be, you look at ...not perfection.. but more "fine tuning" and so so so many big box store brands do not allow for fine tuning.

Look, always remember you can cook the most awesome meal on a campfire or coleman portable stove. Nothing makes you a better cook, it simply makes it more fun to cook and thus you pay more attention to it.

Yes, adding the ability to control heat can most assuredly help... thus, in MY opinion only, gas rocks.

So, no way people can mention every stove, but if you like the GE.. by all means get that bad boy and enjoy it. Anyone that snubs their nose at it, does not have to eat your awesome food you cook on it.

BUT.. remember... if you get the GE.. you still have to post a review and pictures on here so others CAN find the info. Be the first.

Oh.. and ask for my mailing address. I take free samples.. :P

R

When my husband and I were looking at ranges we considered the GE Monogram as well as Wolf and BlueStar (RNB). We went with the BlueStar RNB and have no regrets with the purchase. In looking for reviews we found many negative reviews on the GE Monogram line in general and wanted an excellent range with fewer bell and whistles to break or malfunction. We had an Electrolux Wave IQ range (I believe that was the correct name) that had more bells and whistles than you could imagine and had repairs out the wazoo for the seven years it worked. This was $3000 down the drain, not including repair costs. The BlueStar RNB is a powerful range that cooks amazingly well and can be fixed easily, no computer boards or touch screens, etc. But I digress, the Monogram line was removed from consideration because of the poor reviews here and at other places online. Lowe's had reviews for some of their appliances when we looked as they were special order items for them at the time. Keep looking and you will find more reviews but if you are set on this line then nothing you read is going to change your mind and if that is the case then buy an extended warranty and be happy with your purchase! No range will be 100% problem free forever I'm sure. Good luck with your search.

Thank you, Mandy_Elaine! Thanks for the advice. Glad to hear you like your Blue Star. How long have you had it? How do you like the oven? I do a lot of baking. The Blue Star seems like a really good, solid range. And the colors are very tempting, as well. Yes, I've seen some negativity with the GE line, but it seems older, and not about the range. I would love a Blue Star, but for the price, I am starting to lean toward GE because it has the huge oven with all racks being easy roll out. The service, too, seems like it might be easier/less expensive since it is a brand that is familiar to all service pros and parts may be readily available (although, I appreciate the Blue Star simplicity and it sounds like parts may be easy there, as well). I love the RNB, but it seems to be more pricey than the Monogram. Maybe I can find a deal somewhere. Thanks for your input!

We have had the BS for about a year now and the oven is excellent. It is large enough to hold a full size sheet pan, roast a 23lb + turkey, bake three or more cake pans at once, a 15in lasagna pan and a split garlic bread log at the same time, and on and on. I roast a lot of meats and veggies and it is great there too. I do not know if BS is familiar to all service pros as you mentioned but the ranges are very commercial which basically means built like a tank and very simple to repair in most cases. Our installer said we should be able to do most any repair ourselves and whatever we cannot do any restaurant repair person could do the work for us if a local service person was not available. Regardless of that, BS has service people most everywhere now. I do not know where you are located but I am in East Tennessee, in a city of approx.50,000, and we have BS service people available. I really feel like you have made up your mind about the GE Monogram and are just looking for someone to tell you to do it because no matter what anyone else posts after you ask questions you keep coming back saying "but the Monogram!" and I do understand budget constraints. So if you are set on the GE then get the GE. Just know that sometimes you get what you pay for and maybe try to add an extended service warranty with the GE just in case if you can.