I have two giant pine trees. I can give you some hints. First of all - - the reason your plants didn't spread is because there's not much rain and/or water that gets under a pine tree. The huge needle mess is actually good - - it acts as a mulch and will help the plants you DO plant hold moisture. SO - - my advice: limb "up" your pine tree. Cut the limbs on the bottom of the pine tree up as high as you can. It will allow some sunlight and rain in under the branches. THEN, I'd plant shade plants that do not require a ton of water beneath the new limbed up tree. After the first year of transplanting a hosta, it does not need excessive water - - so a hosta is perfect. Water well the first year, then leave it alone thereafter and it should be fine. My advice is to forget the idea of getting special varieties of hosta. I'd go to Lowe's or Home Depot or WalMart (or a friends yard) and buy the largest pots of hosta you can get. Like the other plants you planted, the hostas will be very slow to grow unless it gets more regular water. Combat this by getting the largest hostas you can find up front. That way you'll have a good "look" without waiting 4 years for the hostas to fill in. They'll probably not need to be divided in the future, so you can just pop them in and enjoy. I do not have a picture right now, but my goal this year was to vary all my hostas. I have a dozen or so varieties throughout the garden - all mixed up and side by side. So you'll really see and understand the variation. Meaning, I've planted August Moon right next to Excelsior right next to Blue Angel right next to Sum and Substance right next to a dark green hosta, etc., etc., etc. The only thing I keep consistent: I put the taller varieties in the back. I've also got one pine tree surrounded by a "Fairy Ring". I put a ton of mixed hostas beneath the tree THEN added about 15 plants, a small miniature-yellow variety, that look exactly the same as an "edger" around the outside of the pine. It's gorgeous. The idea is that all my beds look very colorful, even though they get vary little shade. Just remember, if you plant a tiny hosta (or any other shade plant) it will not grow much larger due to the lack of water and sunlight they receive beneath a pine tree. GOOD LUCK! Also - on a final note - - depending on how much pine "mess" you have - if you gather up all the pine needles, it makes a wonderful liner for a path. You could dig a path somewhere - remove all the grass and make it about 3' wide - then fill in the path with the pine needles. It stays the same color year round, rarely grows mold or disease (pine needles are resistent) and is easy on the knees to walk on. Let me know how it turns out if you're interested in my ideas! Thanks, Shawna

To hottubjoe - I know this is an OLD but useful thread. Re cats and oils even natural ones. Cats do not have the liver enzyme system to metabolize fragrance products including natural oils. When I lived in NYC I had those cedar blocks for moths in my teeeeny closet. They can be very toxic to them. There are different types of cedar products and they must be phenol-free. (see Wondercide pheno free cedar products and their discussion on safe for cats) And Cedar cide (which I have used for bugs in the house) I always put my cat in another room just to be super safe. """""""""""""""""Cats, which are highly sensitive to odors and many essential oils, can suffer adverse side effects from improperly formulated cedar oil. Phenols, which are naturally present in several essential oils, can be outright fatal to cats, especially smaller individuals such as kittens. An inability to metabolize this common ingredient is what renders some types of cedar oil harmful to cats. Furthermore, some species of cedar—like Western red cedar—are naturally toxic to both pets and people, and should never be used in topical pet products. Firstly, Cedarcide cedar oil never contains phenols or phenolic compounds. Secondly, because we use only the highest quality cedar oil sourced from only pet-safe cedar trees (Juniperus ashei, to be specific), our products are always non-toxic, all natural, and safe for pets. Using a multi-step filtration process, our cedar oil is purified of all unnecessary contaminants—including any potentially harmful ingredients like phenols. However, as with any topical pet product, you should test your cat for possible sensitivity or allergy to cedar oil with a small initial application.""""""""""""""""""""" ........................................... I am stunned at how many pet products for cats have highly toxic chemicals (esp natural ones) in them and even once called a company - they said they know but most people want it. Fragrant cat litter as well. ((Many liquid potpourri products and essential oils, including oil of cinnamon, citrus, pennyroyal, peppermint, pine, sweet birch, tea tree (melaleuca), wintergreen, and ylang ylang, are poisonous to cats. Both ingestion and skin exposure can be toxic. Essential Oil and Liquid Potpourri Poisoning in Cats | VCA ... )) (I studied pre vet long long ago and use natural holistic products since of age (18) although our mother (an RN) grew up on a farm and was pretty "natural".)

Rabbits don't like us humans to redecorate 'their' areas. Even when I rearrange my pet bunnies' room (they have the run of the screen porch,) they have to remark everything (chin rubbing) and will try to move things back. Teeth don't work well for hauling, so it's easier to just nip some things to try to get them to move. Also, bunnies teeth keep growing, so they chomp just to wear the teeth down. And bunnies love a project! Once they decide to start in on that new wallpaper, or new sofa, or new pine tree, they will go back again and again. That's why mine are no longer allowed in the bedrooms. They love to sit and pull carpetfibers out of the backing and will sit and pull fibers till they have a bald spot in the rug, in an OCD kind of way. So, I always plan to protect all new tree purchases when they are being planted in places where bunnies have nested in my yard. Wild bunnies think all new trees must be re-arranged too! Easiest for me is chicken wire around a tomato cage for support.

I agree with the majority, the little beasties are a true pest! I always thought they were the workhorse of nature and that their good out-weighed the bad but no more! I have great soil and mulch with different kinds of things, pine needles, bark mulch and straw from my chickens. They have multiplied into the thousands. The last 2 years they have eaten off the sprouts of my Angel Trumpets so bad that they have failed to bloom for the last two years. They are in the dead stems from the previous years growth. I can't eliminate them unless I dig up the plant and cut away those stems. It is not happening because the clumps are very large and I worked hard to get them established. They are also in the hostas and in my tomatoes. They get in every house plant that I put out over the summer and I have to repot everything every year or lose them over the winter because the little turds eat the roots and leaves of my house plants. I am ready to use whatever I have to do to eliminate them. I have plenty of birds and toads, frogs and parasitic bugs in my garden, I encourage spiders and all other good bugs and even my chickens will not eat them. I tried and suffered the damage from my chickens in the hopes that they would eliminate the little buggers. Spinosad is a natural organic method of killing pests the same as Bt has been used to eliminate cabbage worms. It is also the ingredient in Comfortis that I give my dogs for flea control. I will try the beer but if it dosen't work I am going to bring out the big guns!!!