Hi Camps, Judging from the pics I've seen and from the intensity of the answers of people who should know, I think that one should really think long and hard before investing on this rose in my climate. I will (think long and hard). Climate as you know can make all the difference. Having said this, please please do not hesitate to chime in in any of my future question posts, all of them will have to refer to my med conditions, since not only do I value your opinion, knowledge and independent spirit (to put it mildly..) but I also love your sense of humour. Cheers, Nik This post was edited by nikthegreek on Fri, Jan 24, 14 at 10:41

I have Zepherine, Golden S. and Cl. Pinkie currently and used to have Crepuscule. I agree with using Zepherine due to no thorns and Golden Showers is nearly thornless also. Cl. Pinkie has a few thorns but not that bad. Your need to have it be narrow in growth takes Crepuscule out in my opinion. Before salty irrigation killed my Crepe. it grew in multiple directions and can be quite a large plant. Climbing Pinkie is a winner in terms of being in bloom almost continually. My Cl. Pinkie is scentless although I've heard that others have fragrance, alas not mine. I have trained it against a trellis so it can be kept narrow, just takes pruning. Golden Showers is also a fast bloomer but it does not hold onto it's blooms very long. That's the only negative for it in my book because it is a very lovely yellow with a nice scent. The stems are lax and easily trainable and kept narrow in growth. Lovely glossy green foliage almost year round (I'm in Florida). I love Zepherine but it's been 3 years and she is very shy with blooms. I'm hoping she'll burst with blooms next spring, we'll see. My Zepr. requires pruning because it throws out horizontal canes wildly on all sides, could easily be 10' wide if not restrained. I've tried tying the canes to wrap around the pillar and am not successful, the ends die off even when tied lightly. My suggestions: Golden Showers and Cl. Pinkie with a slight lean toward Pinkie because my neighbor is always raving about it and Golden Showers is right next to it unnoticed. Good luck. Denise

Sherry - I think your words are appropriate for growers of modern roses as well. And please excuse my response here on the Antique Forum from someone who doesn't have any Antiques (do DA's or Romantica's count?) - but I like lurking here as often the posts are depthier. My oldest roses are 3 years (perhaps 5 as a few of the first roses I purchased were already 2). My gardening experience is still so young - but even this soon, each year, I see each rose iterate into new renditions of themselves. Most get stronger and more beautiful over time. For the few that are tending in the other direction, I try to pamper them more, and determine what they are missing. There have been a handful that I have thought about removing, but I have yet to do that to one rose (but don't ask me about the Gardenias - yanked my 2nd one today, ugh...) I'm still watching a few, and keeping a mental possible removal list, but my gut tells me to watch them and see how they do over time. Medallion, Europeana and Grand Masterpiece are watched with a skeptical eye, but all three this year have given me periods of time of complete surprise (and joy). So, I've been happy I haven't removed them. Then Proud Land has been moved, and still looks lousy, but this year I've had 2 blooms that have been stunning. So I'm glad I moved "less than Proud" Land to a background place where her overall homeliness isn't noticeable. I'm noticing the DA's are slower growing than my HT's and Floribundas. I really watch daily with a quiet excitement, as they change and mature before me. Young Lycidas whose first canes dragged the ground, has canes that are now trying to poke up into the air. Mary Rose who spent her first year napping exploded this year. There are roses like Purple Tiger and Barbara Streisand that are new this year, both with pretty poor reputations. PT has been doing really well for me, very small blooms, but with color combinations nothing short of brilliant. Roses like this embody hope for me, one of the most marvelous sensations of gardening. Bolero is in her 2nd year. Her few blooms in her first year were stunning, in her diminutive year end size of about 1' x 1'. She stayed quite humble this year until a few weeks ago, and now she has gone crazy in our first heat wave of the year - cane's leaping into the air, covered in the most magnificant blooms. I completely get the growing child analogy, as I look upon my rose children with such pride and glee. And those that are troubled bring parallel emotions to that experience as well - as I feel saddened, and exert extra effort to mend. I notice same with many of the companion plants in the garden. The Dahlias, Mums, Lilies and many more, get stronger and more beautiful over time. I yanked the 2 gardenias because it was clear they were dying and all my attempts to remedy their issues were failures. I can't help it - I see what I plant, as lives to be cherished. They are gifts of nature, and I feel unfit to be judge of their fate if their only issue is that they do not aesthetically please me.

meslgh......... You have gotten advice from people local to you, so my two cents is of less value than what they have told you, but it may add a dimension you can use in your decision making. I live in a latitude further north than you and I live at a higher elevation, so even though we both live in zone 8a, the light is different up here than where you live. That's why the local advice is much better. Also, since I live in the mountains, my night temps cool off by 40 to 50 degrees and that gives the plants a chance to rehydrate themselves during the night ... pull moisture up from the root zone to the top growth. I don't know if that is true where you live. What I have learned about growing roses in an area of high heat (Heat zone 8), is that roses with thicker petal substance can handle more light and heat. Since I don't have any disease pressure once the day temps hit 85 degrees and stay there or higher, I prune for foliage. That means I don't take out anything that might produce foliage. The rose will abandon what it cannot use. I have found that the roses need as much foliage as possible to stimulate the plant to pull moisture up from the root zone. Once my roses have been in the ground for 3 to 4 years, they are much better at handling the light and the heat. I have some roses that only look wonderful in spring and fall and pretty lousy during the summer months. That's fine with me because I love the roses and I have enough other roses that do well in the summer months. My goal is not to strive for perfect blooms, but for a healthy plant. A healthy plant provides enough blooms to keep me happy. I hope this helps. Smiles, Lyn