I have both Munstead Wood and Rouge Royale. Munstead Wood is better than RR for me, but neither are as bs resistant as I had hoped here in our high humidity...but neither are as bad as my Eugene de Beauharnais. I wouldn't recommend that one for bs resistance...but I'm in a very different area than you, so you might have better luck with him. I haven't grown Darcey Bussell, but have read good reports on her here on the forum. Haven't grown or heard much about disease resistance on the others you list. One you might consider is Dark Desire...a recent Kordes release. It was new for me last year, but so far I'm really pleased with it...VERY fragrant and so far very bs resistant. It's not a true red...more of a purple red like Munstead Wood.

Dark Desire

Thank you - Pat. I have only seen Dark Desire at Lowes and the plant was in such poor shape with sad looking blooms I passed it by. I think I need to give it another look! I will pass on Eugene de Beauharnais then - good to know.

I received mine as a small own root plant last spring from either Chamblee's or RU...can't remember which. It was a bit slow to get going, but was growing and blooming decently by late in the season and is doing great this spring. I don't think you will be disappointed by its scent, health or beauty.

My Dark Desire was a bare root last year and was slow to get going. The blooms and bloom color were spectacular!!! I'm excited to see how it does this year.

Pat!!! Those Dark Desires are incredible!!! GASP!!!! I'm sooooo wanting that for my DD bush this year!!!

Carol

Hi Dave, where I live Blackspot is a real problem. The best black resistant red rose with great fragrance that I have grown is Dame de Coeur. I'm not sure about the winter hardiness though. I'm quite a bit warmer than you.

Carol, I'm betting your Dark Desire really takes off this year, too. I liked mine last year, but I LOVE it now :) Valrose, glad to hear your recommendation on Dame de Coeur. I bought one during a visit to Petals from the Past last month. I promised myself no roses on that trip, but this one called to me from across the nursery. It had one huge bloom...almost bigger than the one gallon sized plant itself....that I could literally see from many aisles down at the nursery. Not really a petal packed "Austin" type bloom, but lovely. Bright true red shading to very deep red (almost black) at the edges and darkens more as it ages. Very happy to hear it is bs resistant in FL...you've got to be at least as humid as us.

Dame de Coeur's bloom that lured me to it:

Pat -Thanks for the encouragement!!! I can't wait to find out!

That is a huge bloom and I love the smoky edges!!!

Carol

I purchased Dark Desire last night and just ordered Dame de Coeur today from ARE. I will grow them in pots next to each other first and to test them out. My wife is the critic of my garden and I think she will like the true red better but I am looking forward to Dark Desire as well. I showed her Darcey Bussell at the nursery today but she did not care for it so much.

Is the growth habit of Dame de Coeur bushy or closer to the slender appearance of most hybrid teas?

Thanks for your suggestions! Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated :)

Kind of hard to locate, but Grande Amore is a true red HT and a winner of an ADR in 2005. It should do very well in your Zone 6A. Fragrance is mild not strong.

Dame de Coeur is more bushy than most hybrid teas. Here it seems to max out about 4'. It spends a lot of time blooming so it is a little slow growing.

Chris - Your Grand Amore looks sensational!!! Wow!!

Carol

Dave, I'm pretty close to your Missouri here in Nebraska, and my Dark Desire has overwintered with no problems. It is absolutely fabulous as a rose in every way - clean, fragrant, dark red, and prolific! Usually roses take two years to settle in but that one bloomed amazingly right out of the gate. Dark Desire has a red "mood" as you can see below and can look Austin-like:

It also gets that lovely dark purplish tone in cool weather, and looks more like a classic hybrid tea at times:

Dame de Coeur wasn't in the best spot the first time I tried it so it didn't overwinter, but I think it'll be fine and I'm putting it in again, and Grand Amore as well this year.

As for other suggestions, most of the Austins are more of a crimson than a true red, though I've found them not a problem for blackspot in our relatively dry plains climate. Darcey Bussell is great and probably the best of the bunch for repeat bloom for me. LD Braithwaite is supposed to be among the reddest, along with Tess of the D'Ubervilles, but those will be new for me this year. I've had good health and overwintering of The Dark Lady, Tradescant, and William Shakespeare 2000. All of these bush out well, probably the best bloomer for me is The Dark Lady. Other Austins like Falstaff, Othello, and The Prince are fussier and less reliable to overwinter for me.

Here's Darcy Bussell next to some Stargazer lilies so you can compare their crimson color:

The Dark Lady can be a color like Darcey above but tends more toward hot pink, as this photo from June shows;

William Shakespeare 2000 is a similar color but with that quartered loveliness some Austins can show (Tradescant is a similar color but a looser bloom):

As for more true reds, I'm not the best judge of fragrances. I can say that Veteran's Honor overwinters for me without problem and is supposed to be nicely fragrant. It's mostly a one-cane wonder for me and doesn't bush out all that well, but the blooms are that classic red shape and huge, as you can tell by my hand:

Legends is also a huge flower, though it has taken two tries to overwinter it successfully.

Other classic HT or floribunda reds that overwinter for me pretty well and supposedly have fragrance are: Firefighter, Madame Delbard, Red Masterpiece, Isabella Renaissance, JC Thornton, In the Mood. All of those are mostly narrow limited bloomers for me, the best probably being Isabella Renaissance for bushing out. Oklahoma has finally overwintered after about 5 tries, but I've never been able to keep Mr. Lincoln alive on even more tries. Kashmir and Kardinal Kolorscape are much more prolific bloomers and bushy, but have no fragrance that I can detect.

Here's Kardinal Kolorscape that bloomed like this even in its first year all season:

Needless to say, there are a lot of reds, but the Austin shape in a fragrant disease free true red is a bit limited. You either have to give up the true red or the fragrance if you want a prolific bloomer, in my experience.

Cynthia

Chris - thank you for your suggestion and picture of Grand Amore.

Cynthia - I appreciate sharing your wealth of information/experience with reds. I'm sorry you have lost many through the years but I'm glad you've continued trying and experimenting with new varieties. I sure don't mind the purple hues many of these reds take but as long as I have at least one true red for my wife I think she'll be happy :) Your WS 2000 is beautiful. I love roses that are strongly quartered. How is the repeat on your WS 2000? Also, do the blooms for Darcey Bussell get any larger than 2 inches? The Darcey I saw this morning was not a small plant but the blooms were only about 2 inches. Oh, and your Dark Desire is fantastic! I'm glad I picked one up last night.

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.3247

You might consider Henri Martin.

I have Grande Amore but I don't think it has a fragrance.

Dolly Parton is a big fragrant HT, but I'm sure it has disease issues like most HTs.

I've wanted to grow moss roses or centifolias but I have passed on them d/t report that they are all prone to disease. Do you feel Henri Martin does better than others - esp in a humid environment?

I don't recall any disease issues and often didn't spray the OGRs around that part of the yard. But, I don't have it anymore, as it was planted too close to a walkway--I gave it away to someone that wanted it. Next year I thinking digging up a Scentimental to see if can be divided up into several plants and giving them away--it goes off patent this year.

HI Dave

My Darcey Bussell has fairly normal Austin-sized blooms in my experience - not huge, but maybe 3-4" across or more. The 2" blooms you saw might have been a first bloom for the plant which often isn't typical of later blooms from a rose. Also, weather conditions can affect bloom size and color. The only Austin that consistently put out tiny pompom blooms was Harlow Carr (looked like scruffy mums in my yard), and not coincidentally it's the only rose out of 1000 I've intentionally "shovel pruned".

My WS2000 wasn't a very fast repeater or prolific with each bloom, having a dozen or so of blooms in a good year maybe every 6-8 weeks. It isn't a consistent bloomer like say Scepter'd Isle is for me.

I've heard good things about Ingrid Bergman as a true red, and in your zone 6 she might overwinter better for you than me. I'm giving her one last try this year in my most protected spot. Your wife might like her classic red form.

Cynthia

How would you describe the Dark Desire Rose scent? Looks like I will be getting one based on this thread and since they have them for sale at Lowe's.

One other thing, is 4-6 hours of sun enough for them?

I am a lurker and I appreciate what you all have to say)

Has anyone ever grown one in a container?

Cynthia - thanks for giving me more info on Darcey Bussell! I definitely have not ruled this one out. I love the thought of a red rose regularly blooming, has a bushy growth habit, and is disease resistant. I wish it were more fragrant but it has some and I liked it and so I cannot fault it there. I will also look at Ingrid.

I would be surprised to see it in Massachusetts at Lowes. The distribution is pretty regional.and I don't think Lowes regional grower for the NE has Parfuma. There is a very good description of the scent on newflora.com under garden roses - Parfuma.

Mikerno, 4 hrs. sun is not enough. The rose will limp along but bloom will be sparse and likely undersized. 6 hrs. sun and bright shade? Maybe.

I don't remember which group of roses will take some shade. Somebody hopefully will chime in.

I was at a nursery this week picking up another Bolero when I saw Darcey Bussell again but the blooms were beautiful and the conditions must have been just right because it had a wonderful, strong fragrance. So I took it home, too! It filled the car with its great scent. Now I have it in a large pot next to Dame de Couer and Dark Desire.

I'm hoping Dark Desire will do okay in a 20 gallon pot. I read in another post recently that this rose does not like to be potted.

please share photos when they bloom

I grow Darcy Bussell here in MN and it is one of my best Austins. It is almost never with out bloom and over winters's quite well here. I think the blooms are closer to the 3" or 4" like Cynthia said and does have a nice scent. I will post pictures when she blooms as this will be year 3 (I think!!!)

Dave, the Henri Martin at Duke Gardens (no spray) generally appears to have healthy foliage. I was there yesterday and all its leaves were green. That one is pretty stingy with re-bloom, however.

It's not a HT bush shape. The one there sprawls sideways with lanky canes.

Kelly - I would love to see your mature DB! That's great that it does well for in zone 4.

Spectrograph - Thanks for the info on Henri Martin!

Here my two plants today. This one is more bushy than some of the other Austins I grow.

I have been enjoying the charm of Darcey Bussell, the dark buds and perfume if Dark Desire, and the sexy smoky edged Dame de Couer. It's going to be a hard decision in the end.

BUT...when reading in the latest issue of American Rose a few 2015 ADR Winners were shown and one especially caught my eye - Tantau's "Soul". Tantau's site says it is 100% disease resistant (one claim that "I'll believe it when I see it" but being an ADR it has to be pretty good, right?). Anyone know about availability in the US?

Many of us are hoping that this rose will make its way across the big pond. Don't they say there is power in numbers. We need this rose! We must be heard by the powers that be!

Not fragrant, but I'll put a vote in for 'Out of Rosenheim'.

And given the choice between WS2000 and Darcy Bussel, I'd take Munstead Wood. Lol.

How long have you been growing out of rosenheim? How much winter dieback do you get?

Soul is not available in the U.S., as well as most of the other newer Tantau roses. You can get Ascot from Palatine in Canada, and sometimes Augusta Luise. Both are newer Tantau roses. I have no idea how those two slipped through the cracks and made it to Canada. I was told Tantau has no agent over here several years ago by Palatine's owner. I wish that would change! Diane

I would suggest elizabeths China the pics are jeris from hmf

Rose Whisperer - Out of Rosenheim is beautiful! I love your photo. The flower form is great. I sure wish it had some fragrance.

Diane - Maybe Palatine will eventually get Soul in? I can keep my fingers crossed. I've seen your pictures of Ascot and they are AMAZING! I'm concerned about disease susceptibility here in the hot and humid Midwest. I think I may just have to try one next year and see how it goes.

Garden Nut - Thanks for your suggestion on Elizabeth's China! I have never heard of it before and will research it further.

Wow, Marlorena! That's gorgeous!!!!

Carol

Your Thomas A Becket looks fantastic, Marlorena! I've only seen it once at a nursery and was very pink and so I passed it up. Bad place to judge roses as I mentioned earlier with Darcey. I may have to try him in part shade.

Dave & All - just a note that Rene at Palatine says they have a new contract with Tantau and will be bringing in a lot of their roses over the next two years or so. I'm beyond excited, since I love the Tantau roses. You can drop them a line to ask about Soul in particular, but I know Rene said they'd have Augusta Luise back this fall because I'd asked about that one on my own (begged, after Diane's pictures). That picture of Soul makes it worth begging for as well - thanks for posting!

Kelly - I have Out of Rosenheim in my front mailbox bed and it seems average winter hardy here in zone 5. Not cane hardy, not even last year's mild winter, so I wouldn't put it among the most hardy roses. Instead, Archbishop Desmond Tutu (probably the same as Tutu that Chamblee's sells) is a fabulous nonstop bloomer for me that's mostly cane hardy and pretty dark true red blooms. More HT-like than Austin-like, but there are a lot of petals and they last a long time on the bush. It stays about 3' tall or less for me, but packs a punch with blooms. This shot is pretty typical.

Cynthia

Oh that is wonderful news!!! More Tantau roses!! August Luise!!! Yes!!!

Carol

Thanks, Cynthia, for the great news. I'm going to review my Tantau catalog and fire off an email to Palatine with my most wanted Tantau roses. I'm at the point of "one in...one out" in my garden, so my list will be tiny. I am so jealous of Cynthia's large orders, and wish I could that just once. Diane

Woohoo! Thanks great news, Cynthia! I will be sending an email today.

Glad to help enable everyone! Besides, the more Tantaus that Palatine sells, the more they'll be able to import (chortle).

And Diane, you could do a huge order - just put them in pots and don't use your driveway, like, ever. Or put them out on the back slope with a permanent guard dog to keep off the goats (smile). Of course the problem with a huge order is that you have to PLANT them all, and within a limited window of time.

Cynthia