Cathy your meatloaf sounds good, I'm glad it turned out. Now my appetite is all set for meatloaf so I guess I'll have to make one soon too. I've used the recipe that is in Cooks Illustrated, "The Best Recipe" cookbook for the last few years. It has good flavor and texture. Before that, I'd try different recipes and be disappointed and returned to making it the way my DM did but there was always something missing. So I know what you mean when you say it flopped. Never really had a problem with it holding together, more of a flavor thing for me. I received a jar of Chase's Chile Sauce from her this summer, I saved it until the weather cooled and I was in the mood for a good pot roast....well that happened last night and I can't say enough about how good her Chile Sauce is....it's wonderful!!!!!! Perfect!!!!! So now I have to make meatloaf while I have some! I also am thinking I might just have to get some tomatoes and make a batch if I can find the time. If I don't, I'll be dreaming about it forever.... Nancy

Lukkiirish, the problems with your cats was not due to wet feeding. Dry food is made to shatter IF the cat bites down on it. Of course, when it does, it's nothing but mealy grit that easily lodges in the gingiva. This leads to periodontitis, resorption, and other painful conditions. The only way to care for cat teeth at home is to brush them. Your claim that dry food is good for feline oral health is no different to claiming that eating saltines will clean your own teeth. If you know the anatomy of a cat's mouth, you can see that there are no chewing surfaces, ie., the molars are high on the outside and low on the inside near the tongue. This facilitates shearing action, which, rather than chewing, is what a cat's mouth is evolved to do. Chewing animals have flatter molar surfaces, so that food can be kept in place for chewing. Imagine the action of a mortar and pestle. The tool is designed to hold stuff in place for grinding. That's what your teeth are made for. Cat teeth are shaped to provide a scissor-like action. So, on that alone, you can understand why dry food is useless for feline oral health. Next, dry food is by nature very high in carbohydrates. It must be, since the plant matter is needed to glue the meat meal grit into kibbles. If you're reading labels, good-but if you're not translating them, then you have no idea what you're feeding your cats. Any claims on dry food labels of "50% protein" are utter hogwash. Firstly, any plant matter that is useful protein in any other animal feeds is also considered useful protein in cat food, despite the fact that cats cannot utilise plant protein. You need to know how much animal protein is in the mix, and manufacturers are not always going to tell you that if you call them. Secondly, you need to calculate dry weight to get a grasp of how much of ANY protein is in the mix. If you're lucky enough to get facts from the manufacturer, then you still do the maths. The best dry food on the market is probably less than 20% animal protein, which is grossly insufficient for obligate carnivores. Then you need to consider that cats are not particularly interested in drinking water. Everyone claims that "my cat drinks plenty of water!" But no one can tell you how much water "plenty" is! A cat's natural diet is prey, which is about 70%-80% water. So is wet food! Dry food? Under 10% water. Cats will drink, but are not thirst-driven, so are unable to know if they're getting enough water to function. The dry-fed cat will walk away from the water dish long before it has consumed sufficient water. As a result, dry-fed cats have undue strain on kidney function, digestion, urinary function, and who knows what else because they are always dehydrated. Dry-fed cats are also far more likely to be obese and to develop diabetes and hypertension. Oh, and let's not forget how many dry-fed cats end up with an excess of urinary crystals or even blockages! This is almost always due to dry feeding, which leads to concentrated, alkaline urine. Cats need the sufficiency of wet food fluid intake in order to reduce urine's concentration and to flush out crystals. The higher animal protein in wet food helps to maintain appropriate urine acidity. Another interesting thing is that so many people are completely hoodwinked by the"grain-free" movement! It doesn't matter! Grain-free does NOT equate carbohydrate-free! Grains are often primary suspects in food allergies. The grain-free bandwagon needs to be halted for the sake of our cats. Grain-free dry foods contain as much carbohydrate as do grained foods. You'll frequently see claims that cats in the wild will eat the stomach contents of their prey, but this is not fact. Cats are not keen on stomach acids needed for plant breakdown and carefully avoid eating any part of prey digestive tracts. I suppose that laboratory cats who are only fed digestive tracts will consume them in hope of avoiding starvation, but not cats in more normal surroundings. Lastly, I'm always hearing from people who claim to have cats who were dry-fed only, and lived to be 32 and never had a problem. Well, genetics can make some cats lucky enough to slip past troubles, but these are very much the minority. I also suspect that some of the owners were lying about the cats' longevity, or the cats had outdoors access so supplemented their dry food with nice juicy prey. It is also likely that the cats were never taken to the vet so any problems they may have had were never diagnosed. It's like the centenarian who, when asked the secret to his long life, answers " booze, cigars, and unrestrained sex!". Does that mean that EVERYONE should live like that in order to become a centenarian? Of course not. I see no problem with using dry food in place of cat treats. It's less expensive. Ten to twenty pieces of dry food in a day are amazing as training rewards. But there is no real benefit to dry feeding.

My 14 year old Persian kitty was diagnosed with crf about a month ago. He was prescribed subq fluids ( which I do myself) and gd canned renal food, as he has a heart murmur. He has eaten a raw homemade food all his life that I make myself..but it has bone in it..which I understand is not good for crf kitties as it contains too much phrosphuros. He likes the gd..but has lost weight and I suspect he needs more high quality protein..I have searched the web for info for a recipe using raw chicken..but I can't find any...I am fearful he is losing muscle mass...I have started adding cooked egg white to his gd food...not sure how much to add..so probably a while egg white per day..as he eats fairly often. It seems there are so many of us pet owners who are desperately looking for this info. I have found that a private consult with someone who says they can help is just too expensive! I was considering leaving out the bone on the recipe I normally use ...but not sure about adding bonemeal... A cbc done after several weeks on gd brought the bun way down..but creatinine is still high at 3.0... I even wonder how much a previous raw diet affected the original cbc levels... I weigh him every day...and he is slowly losing ... For now ...he is eating...but runs to the raw my others are eating every chance he gets..so I am a constant policeman. He also was presscribed Azodyl...I have read you can buy human probiotic at Whole Foods...but not sure how much to give..that would be so much cheaper..if it even helps..everyone on it seems to think so..but I have read poor reviews about it.. Also have read good things.about Renafood by Standard Process..it's a human supplement... B complex,omega 3 which I do put into my raw recipe...not sure what freezing does to the quality of it.. And what about Calcitriol??? The vet said he was in stage 3..but I guess that is where most cats are when not caught early...He sleeps non stop...does wake to eat fairly often..but doesn't stay awake for any length of time...when he does eat a fairly good amount..he is trying to paw into my plate...or finding his way into my one cats dry food..or the raw I am feeding the others...so does that say..what he is eating is not nutritious enough??? From what I am reading on the net the renal food is not sufficient enough for their carnavarl needs...canned food of any kind cannot be compared to a raw diet...I have feed this to my cats for 12 years...and they have always had excellent cbc's up until now... He and all the others had cbc's last year..and all were great.,but if all this happened within a year..I am going to have them all tested again.. I did take all the meat off a whole chicken..added..chicken liver..all raw..and froze this mixture into very small patties and have added a small amount to his gd food..but not sure this is enough....as you can see..I am determined to feed him raw ..if only I knew I wasn't harming him. I know there are canned foods that are not prescription..that can be low in phorphuros...right now his is 3.7.. down from 5.5 originally.. Would so appreciate your help. thanks, bev. ...

Fancy Feast cans meghane? I am having the same problem. I have 4 kitties. the girls are the weight they should be or a little under. One is 6lbs, one is 7lbs. the boys are monsters. one is 13lbs, and one is 14lbs. they should be under 10lbs! I think they keep gaining weight to be bigger than the other? is that crazy? kind of like the overpowering ruler of the roost? I do feed them cans of fancy feast (about 4 per day total - so about 1 each) and I do leave dry food out. they eat about a small bowl full a day. I had been leaving the dry food out for years with the oldest and he was about 10.5 lbs. He has gained since I got the other three over the last 2 years. I am afraid the girls who are on the skinny side will lose weight while I am trying to get the boys to do so. I have to start keeping a log of their weights. I don't know what to do about the food though.