How odd. I've noticed that with several threads lately, and I don't think it's any kind of censorship, because one of them was about an article on how to use antlers in your decor.

It's still here but I couldn't post my comment and now it's lost.

ETA- no, you're right, it;s gone. huh?

Oh my gosh, I just spent 20 minutes writing a response in agreement and it's gone!

I'd written a lengthy reply, only to hit Submit and find the thread had gone away. Unless Lisa requested that it be pulled, I can't imagine why it would have been deleted. There was certainly nothing controversial in anything that had been said.

I agree, I thought it was an interesting topic and was looking forward to reading peoples thoughts. My reply was rather lengthy as well. :(

same here- i was writing my thoughts and then it was gone...

Same thing happened with a thread in Remodeling the other day. Poof ... gone!

I didn't see the thread but I know they do disappear. They never got replies and only reappeared because the OP posted to them again. I remember Magdalena had a thread that no one replied to and she was a little hurt, but no one had seen it. Since then I've noticed a few more. If Lisa sees this, she should try posting to her thread and it may reappear.

I posted a link to a great documentary about healthcare. That is allowed, isn't it?

Oh, I owe you all a big apology. I deleted the discussion. In the midst of editing one of my responses, I realized I came across as whiny and throwing myself a pity party because I can't eat potato chips or have my yoga covered by insurance.

To all of you who spent time reading it and composing replies, I'm truly sorry. In my haste I didn't consider your time and I apologize for my lack of consideration. Learned my lesson.

Learned my lesson about what I whine about too. Complaining about my insurance or the cost of organic food when people are battling their carriers over much, much bigger issues is just ungratefulness for what I have. But I appreciate the thoughtful responses and again apologize for those who lost out on their time invested in my dribble.

Cattlyes, we cross posted and I'm sure it is allowed. I deleted the discussion--I'm really sorry for my carelessness. I feel foolish and apologize to you for it.

ETA, I found your link in my browser history:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2093109/

Lisa, please don't feel you should apologize. I'm sorry if anything I said about not understanding caused you to second-guess what you'd written. My response that I tried to post had to do with how my GP immediately handed me samples and a prescription for an antidepressant after I casually mentioned during a routine exam that I'd been feeling a bit blue. Thus began a very difficult journey and an excruciating withdrawal several years later. I think many of us could relate to your thoughts in one way or another.

I totally support your decision if you decided to delete your post. I just didn't want it to be because I posted a link I should not have. And I really admire your dedication to healthy choices, Lisa! :-)

Thank you, TurquoiseRose and Cattyles. Your comments are generous considering yours was some of the time I wasted.

TR, I've not tried a prescription antidepressant but it's been recommended to me a few times. I don't know your whole story but I can guess what it entailed based on my research and a few anecdotal experiences from friends who suffered through many side effects and failed runs with them. The bad effects seem long-lasting and the approach to finding what works far too experimental. But I know they do work for many and I've had several tell me I'm wasting good years of my life by not at least giving them a try.

All my ducks have to be in a straight and narrow row every moment of every day for me to feel OK physically and mentally. It's exhausting. I enjoy exercising but yoga and meditation are challenging for me even though I benefit from starting my day with them. I don't think I'm an intrinsically happy enough person for them to work. I often leave yoga wanting everyone to stick their om up their... never mind.

We all know the system is broken and emphasis is placed on profit over individual health everywhere from the grocery store to the doctor's office to those dumb drug commercials we see on TV with the smiley people walking through the meadows. I've just got to learn how to work within this system, like we all do.

Lisa, I missed your original topic, but if you're debating whether or not to take an antidepressant, I can give you my two cents. All positive.

i won't write again what i responded, but there are at least several health insurance cos that do make some payment/reimbursement toward gym memberships... i guess yours does not. (however, for a lot of people, it is not the cost but the motivation/desire to get themselves there that is the issue! me included!)

I didn't see the original thread in question, but this one is making me wish I had! Sounds like an interesting topic.

No need to apologize - sometimes we change our mind and it's kind of nice that you can "undo"

All my ducks have to be in a straight and narrow row every moment of every day for me to feel OK physically and mentally It's exhausting.

That sounds so much like my brother. The exhaustion finally became too much of a burden and he chose to end his life.

I understand your reluctance to take antidepressants, but as others have said they do work for some people. Sometimes the key is a combination of meds and therapy. What do you have to lose by not giving them a chance? Or maybe I should ask what do you have to gain?

Before I would take any kind of medication I would try and see if there was maybe a change in my life I needed to make to change how I felt.

Lisa - I thought it was an interesting topic that you chose to introduce to us. I was looking forward to people's thoughts and happened to agree with your underlying comments. I respect your right to delete it.

(but, it would have been fun....)

Lisa - I work for a fairly large hospital group. We are self-insured. The cost of putting dependents on our policy is fairly high. We also have health incentives in place. Smoking was the first habit that would cost you $100 more per month. Now, it has moved on to weight, blood pressure control and diabetes control.

I know people that smoke, eat only junk, and never exercise. Do I think they should pay more for their insurance? Well...........hmmm. Good question!

I can also vouch for the positive differences the right antidepressant can make.

I didn't see your thread so I'm reading between the lines here.

"Before I would take any kind of medication I would try and see if there
was maybe a change in my life I needed to make to change how I felt" - I have to agree with this. But I'm this way with ANY medication because I do not want to be dependent on meds if I can in any way avoid that. I know that is not always possible, but it seems all too often a pill is handed out. And many times there are other solutions. Perhaps an antidepressant is the right answer, but I would take RoseAbbey's advice first.

It's easy to say "change yourself," but most depression is caused by situations out of our control, which is called, "Situational depression." If your spouse passes away, that is situational depression. And it can last a very long time.

Don't you think people would fix their problems if they could?

Of course they would.

If you reread my post, the key words are "before" and "try".

Again, agreeing with RoseAbbey. BUT, if a person is feeling low, they may not think of making changes. They may not even associate certain things which could/would help them. Definitely there are times drugs are needed, but I think many doctors are too eager to hand out a pill (as someone mentioned above), rather than offering other alternatives.

Just re-read your response Oakley. You give a good example, which made me think. Having two very close relatives who lost spouses in recent years, I thought about their experiences. One definitely had a bout of depression, the other not-so-much. Neither took meds, and both are happy, healthy people again today. Of course they are lonely, miss their spouses, etc. The one who was more depressed finally DID see she needed to make some changes. Thankfully, family and friends realized this too and reached out to her. In her case, it was a matter of making her self get out of the house. She also started going to an exercise class(es), did a little travel, etc. I can still remember the day she made herself go out and eat alone. It was hard, but she was so proud of herself. She has since made a few new friends, volunteers one day a week, etc. and overall seems much happier. If she hadn't made the changes she did, I'm not sure where she'd be today.

Reading what Lisa wrote here and on her previous thread it seems she is "trying" to do positive things in her life. Sometimes that's not enough.

Here's an example of how medicine is the only thing that will help. A spouse dies unexpectedly, in the prime of his life. The widow is devastated, and she cries and cries and cries. Even in her sleep. For two years she cries, but only when she's alone.

That's when an antidepressant works its magic & the crying instantly stops.

I don't think anyone is denying that antidepressants can be helpful for certain people. But they aren't helpful for everyone and do actually lead to greater problems for some. I'm one of those people. My whole point in the deleted thread was that my doctor was immediate in handing me samples and a prescription for Effexor after I made a very brief comment about feeling blue, even stating that most of her patients took an antidepressant. If my doctor was so quick to respond that way then surely others are too, and a mass dosing of people because "most people are using this" is patently wrong.

TQ, I agree completely. I was objecting to changing one's life to stop from being depressed, because many people are depressed over things they cannot control which affects them 24/hrs a day. Like the above example.

Too many people are on AD's.

Its obvious Oakley you dont get the point I am trying to make.

I have also known people - and I am one of them - whose depressive nature changed for the better when they began exercising regularly and made other health-enhancing changes. I don't think the concept of lifestyle changes is something to reject, because depression is such an incredibly personal thing, and making non-medicated changes does indeed provide the solution for many.

Exactly TR! I'm glad you understood my point. Oakley, I gave you a perfect example of situational depression and someone making changes and did not need meds. The example you gave, the crying spouse, I'm curious - did she try making changes BEFORE going on meds? My point was not that someone might not need drugs, but to try making changes before going that route. I have never experienced depression and am certainly no expert on the matter. I would think, however, that situational depression would be more the type where you could avoid meds while chemical imbalance, etc. that causes depression is more than likely where you would need meds. Depression is an illness, just like cancer, hbp, etc. Someone who has high bp may be able to avoid meds by making lifestyle changes and I, personally, would try that before taking a medication. I feel the same way about treating depression. I hope I am getting my point across.

Maybe you did not mean situational depression? I actually had not heard that term, so I looked it up. According to what I read, situational depression is most often best treated with counseling, etc. It could also be referred to as short-term depression. situational depression

I didn't see the original post, but can add a little about situational depression...my husband died very suddenly when he was 47; I knew I'd be okay, but it was very stressful.

The problem for me was calming down enough to sleep. I just couldn't and the longer I went without good sleep the more of a mess I felt - I, too, could not quit crying or pull myself together - very unlike me. I really wanted something to help me just get to sleep. I seldom go to the doctor and didn't have one other than a gyn and she was on maternity leave. So I went to a local clinic and explained the situation (this was 21 years ago) and asked for something to help me sleep, or to lessen my anxiety so I could sleep.

The FIRST thing the doctor suggested was an anti depressant! "Wait, my husband just died, I think I'm supposed to feel depressed for a while. I don't want or need an antidepressant." It was the only thing she'd prescribe. I filled it, took one and quit, as I knew it wasn't right for me or my situation. I went back and asked again and she finally, reluctantly (because it can become addictive, I guess) wrote a prescription for ambien (which I knew nothing about and think was fairly new at the time). I took it for a month and finally got back into a good sleep pattern/habit. I refilled it once and took maybe one more week's worth. Who knows what would have happened if I'd started down the antidepressant road? I did NOT need that at all. I'm not saying this about any specific situation on this thread, but I think sometimes our culture has such an aversion to feeling anything that we want a pill to fix everything.

Rose, I do understand what you said, and I agree, but it doesn't work for everyone. What more do you want me to say??

Tina, did you read in my example above that it was two years after the situation that the person finally went on AD's and they helped tremendously?

In no way am I suggesting AD's as soon as something happens.

Oly, I admire your strength. That had to have been so hard on you.

I tried Ambien once because I just could not sleep. I had to stop after the first night because I woke up during the night and started chewing a pencil that was on the nightstand. lol. I knew what I was doing but kept at it! The next morning I had a vague memory of chewing on the pencil and when I picked it up, there were teeth marks all over it.

Now I sleep like a baby because of a med I take for chronic restless leg syndrome.

Oakley, Can you point out in my one sentence where I said it would work on everyone and no one should take medication.

I wanted to follow up here. I'm grateful for everyone who posted in the previous thread, and those who posted here. I have a few more thoughts to share for consideration.

First, CindyMac, I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm sure you know this but I'll repeat it here: His life shouldn't be measured by the one single day that he couldn't keep up his fight. Unfortunately suicide is a final definition when we think of death but he should be acknowledged for every day that he managed to live. I fully empathize with the pain and the need to end that pain. I understand a decision to say, you know what? I've done this long enough. I can't do it anymore. That's not a selfish decision. The constant daily struggle leading up to it are the most selfless days he could have had because he was hanging on for those around him. Please celebrate him for this.

(Note: I'm not suicidal for many reasons I can't explain here. But I "get" it.)

Next, I'm at the point at which I have to determine whether my efforts at managing my condition on my own without pharmaceutical help is working. I "fired" my endocrinologist this week. I'm going to see a general practitioner who is more wholistic in their approach and won't just look at my lab work and order a prescription. I'm going to give this a try along with my continued dietary and lifestyle changes--and the goddamn yoga (UGH!). Crossing my fingers. But if, 6 months from now, I don't feel better, I'm heading back for an antidepressant. I'm no longer in my childbearing years so I'm my only experiment.

Lisa, I'm so sorry for all you are going through. I highly recommend cognitive behavioral therapy.

LIsa, it's almost as if you were speaking for him. You definitely get it. Thank you.

When I first practiced yoga many years ago I had a wonderful teacher who made the experience something I looked forward to every class. I've taken classes with different teachers where the opposite is true. Maybe try another teacher before you give up on it.