and some more....

GYPSY LANTERN - shrub... stays a little shorter than most of them... like maybe 3ft x2ft. I hope to see it do well this yr. It got dug out in the septic re-do last yr and had been in too much shade. It'll be much better from now on...

JH PIERNEEF - floribunda.... very similar to GYPSY FIRE, only more orange and white. I have the two of those next to each other and it's quite a show when they're both in full bloom!

JAMES BIDDLE - ht... grows tall, about 5ft, very upright, with lots of blooms.

JAN STEEN - shrub... very lanky, spready, almost climber-ish. Has sweet, small semi-double blooms. Another one that's going to get better this spring, because it was in a too shady spot for awhile, and I almost lost it!!!

LUCE DI TODI - ht... very pretty pinky-red with good form and decent repeat. I'm afraid I may have lost this one. The pots in the area have lost some tags, and I think the dead rose I found there this fall might be it... Bummer....

MAGIC BEAUTY - ht very similar to CANADIAN SUNSET. Hasn't bloomed a whole lot the last couple of yrs... I might need to feed it more... Grows abour 4ft ta;;..

MARTHA ALLEN - ht, supposed to be apricot, but it's more of a pale pink with peachy-pink shading. Very interesting rose. Still in a pot, about 3ft tall and repeats ok... Another one to get in the ground this spring/summer...

MEINDHEERT HOBBEMA - shrub... kinda lanky and sprawly all over the place... love the stripey blooms...

MIDNIGHT MAGIC - currently waiting to get in the ground also... another one dug up last yr. OMG the deep burgundy coloring it showed last yr is amazing! I can't wait for this one to do it's thing this yr! Really long-lasting gorgeous blooms, 3ft tall, slow repeat tho...

PEGGY ROCKEFELLER - monster tall ht... sometimes around 6 1/2ft. Dark red velvety blooms... Hard to capture well.. decent repeat...

Gorgeous! I need Midnight Magic. What a beauty! I'll post mine after I move them to one file for posting ease.

and more...

POCAHONTAS - ht... beautiful orange and yellow blooms, about 3-4ft tall, fairly good repeat.. I love the shape of the blooms and the changing hues on it.

REMBRANDT VAN RYN - shrub, gotta be one of my all-time favorites of his... Gorgeous clusters of burgundy and hot pink and purple-ish stripes. Blooms a lot!! Another sprawly one...

RENATA - ht... gorgeous peachy, apricoty, big blooms. This one got dug up last yr, and I think it's going to be better than it was. Hadn't bloomed for a couple of yrs..

SCARLET RIPPLE - shrub... HMF says "pink stripes" ... more like burgundy and white. I lost this one a few yrs ago and got it replaced a couple yrs ago before Hortico dropped all these Williams roses...

SHOW QUEEN - ht... probably the first one I got... hasn't been a real great bloomer. And the blooms are kinda messy...not much form. Not sure where the name fits in... Grows about 5ft x3ft.

TEQUILLA SUNSET - floribunda... hasn't been a real great bloomer. Occasionally gets a few clusters of interesting orange and gold blooms..

THE NIGHTWATCH - shrub.. they call this one a pink stripe too... more like burgundy and white again... Another big monster plant that sprawls all over. About 6-7ft, long-lasting clusters of blooms.

TWILIGHT ZONE - grandiflora... the original TZ... I'm guessing might be a sister seedling of DOUBLE FEATURE. Mauve with yellow reverse. Gets around 4ft tall. One of my all-time faves.

oh and let's not forget about the newly confirmed ID on this one...

CASTILIAN - a gorgeous rose! Will be glad to see it in its new spot soon... Love the rosey-red and cream coloring on it.

I feel like there's more of them, but maybe not... Probably lost them... lol

I see one you missed. I know you have pictures of Just Joanna.

After going through all of my disorganized files, I still can't find my pictures of Expression, Orange Velvet, Red Fountain, and Slava, but here are the rest.

Boulie's Dream is probably the tallest rose in my garden that isn't a climber.

Canadian Sunset is another tall one, maybe 7 or 8 feet tall.

Castilian we've already discussed. What a gorgeous rose it is.

Circus Days has the prettiest blooms on the rattiest rose bush ever. It's so vulnerable to black spot that it has no leaves at all for part of the year, but the blooms are amazing.

This photo of Delany Sisters shows off its size. This is only half of the bush, but it dwarfs the two cats below it.

Double Feature is one of my favorite roses because of the luscious mauve and tan blend. It's a tiny plant, however, because it's an own-root weakling from Sequoia. I wish I could find it grafted.

Fergus Games is a sweet rose, but not a very exciting one. It's only about 3 feet tall, but it does bloom a lot.

Just Joanna is a sturdy rose with thick canes and gorgeous blooms.

Lava Gold is another short plant, about 3 feet tall.

Oh yeah JUST JOANNA! Yours must be a better plant. Mine grows tall and has the thick sturdy stems, but the blooms sometimes don't open up and they have thrips most of the time. And the color varies a lot with the weather.

I also had SMOKEY JOE a few yrs ago, but he died...

My Just Joanna came from Cliff's moving sale. I love it.

Can I play (smile)? I don't keep track of which Williams my roses come from, and some might be M Williams, but I have or have had at least one that hasn't come up in this discussion yet. Slava was from Vintage and I was able to get at least one mostly faded bloom picture before it croaked in our winters:

My Delaney Sisters is nowhere near as prolific as yours (wow!!), but it has only been blooming in 2015 in its third year, so I have high hopes for it getting better:

Miss Betty is an M Williams variety, but her intensity of color rates at least an honorable mention here:

Peggy Rockefeller does have that heart-stopping dark red bloom, and she's surprisingly winter hardy for me, particularly considering how winter tender most of the Williams roses have been for me (sadly, I don't think my Williams Twilight Zone is looking to have survived the winter, though the Carruth TZ is doing just fine). Peggy has survived for about 8 years in the zone 4 pocket of my yard, and along with Preference and LavaGlut it holds down the dark red portions of that bed:

The Nightwatch is in the same bed, and I agree with Beth that it's totally photogenic, as well as being very winter hardy:

I had one or two glorious years from Boulie's Dream before it faded and died. I have another one on order from Roses Unlimited to try again, as it so deserves another chance;

Others that haven't survived our winters in 1 or 2 tries include: Double Feature, Luci di Todi, Canadian Sunset (gorgeous colors on your photo), Midnight Magic, the heart-stopping Rembrandt von Rijn (but I'm really hoping Ludwigs gets this in to try again), Gypsy Fire, Gypsy Lantern, and Sonia Supreme. Scarlet Ripple survived several years in an average spot in the yard, so I have it on order again from Roses Unlimited for another try (either this year or as a wait list for next year). I've tried to order Emsie Girl a couple of years now, but it hasn't apparently taken well enough to send with an order.

Thanks for posting the photo of Fergus Games, Zuzu. I have this one on order mostly sight unseen from RU, and it's nice to know it's a pretty rose. And WHERE did you and Beth get your Circus Days? Frothing at the mouth here to get one of those for myself!! Many others of the striped or bicolor roses you list are not available in North America that I can find, but I have both of you to thank for putting these on my wish list (Meindhert Hobbema has been there for quite a while, thanks to Beth). Do let us know if they show up anywhere that you can find out!
Cynthia

My Circus Days came from Hortico back in the days when Hortico was offering dozens and dozens of Williams roses. I think I bought it in 2006 or 2007.

I love your photo of Boulie's Dream, Nippstress.

such beautiful roses!! what a fantastic collection of roses he's produced. you all have done him proud!!

carol

Dang, Zuzu - I was afraid of that. A lot of Hortico's former stock has morphed in recent years, but at least they actually have the items for shipment that they list for sale, and that is an improvement. Glad you like Boulie's Dream - that internal glow is one of many reasons I needed to replace this one.

Cynthia

Of course you can play, Cynthia!!... That's the whole point to share and compare these roses! Thanks for adding your beautiful pictures!

I also had SLAVA and that poor thing died after it got dug up in the septic re-do. I placed many of those roses in one of the raised beds we had used for veggies the yr before, just to hold til I could get them planted somewhere, and I think I didn't stick it far enough in the soil. The bud union was up too high, and in fact there were a couple roots showing. Soooo, I think that's what killed that one.

Hey do you guys think if we emailed or called Hortico and bombarded them with requests for these roses.. they might propagate them again? I mean I wonder if they have mother plants of all those Williams roses? Might be worth inquiring about, especially since they seem to be so willing to come up with DA roses that people have been wanting...

Oh, and yes I got my CIRCUS DAYS from Hortico as well... 2004....

Thanks for the tips and the nice comments, Beth. By all means, let's bombard Hortico now that they have a reasonably responsive management style going. Hopefully they haven't lost their mother plants, though apparently this is something of a flux in rose companies. Some roses that Palatine used to sell even recently apparently no longer have a mother plant with them. With Hortico, could we possibly add to the begging a plant of Bella Renaissance, as well as other Poulsen treasures? They used to list Bella but never had her available, and my plant from Pickering is long gone in a bad drought year a few years back.

If we beg for any one rose, my money is on that Circus Days. My word, that is pretty, and your photos are just breathtaking!

Cynthia

Oh yes Cynthia, we need to beg for the Poulsen roses they used to have too! I lost GHITA and PRINCESS ALEXANDRA RENAISSANCE's.... And a few others...

Wow I must've skimmed over your second batch of pics Zuzu, or did you somehow sneak them in between posts? I don't remember seeing those... LILLIAN is drop-dead gorgeous! I want her!! I think Roses Unlimited carries her. I'm off to go check on that.....

When did the reasonably responsive management begin? I had stopped ordering from Hortico in 2009 when they sent me a box of 8 roses (mostly dead or mislabeled) and charged me for 11. When I asked about the 3 they had forgotten to put in the shipping box, they never responded. After hearing later that Hortico had improved, I placed a small order in 2011, but the William Morris I ordered turned out to be a red hybrid tea wearing a William Morris label, and Just Joey was a white climber. Only 1 of the 3 roses I ordered was the right one. Percentage wise, that's deplorable!

Yes, Beth. I split mine into two posts, and you were already posting your pictures of Just Joanna while I was working on my second post. We did it again just now. You wrote about Lillian just as I was writing about Hortico's deplorable record.

Lillian is one of the best roses in my garden. It's only about 4 feet tall, which is nice because I can see all the blooms without getting up on a ladder. It's a floribunda and it's always loaded with blooms. Lots of sherbet colors, all at the same time. Here are a couple more pictures of it.

OMG! That's gorgeous!! I have to order it!! (where am I gonna plant it?.....) LOL

Zuzu - I'm not speaking from any direct experience about Hortico improving, but even the fact that they've taken the roses they don't really have in stock (and don't intend to have in stock) off the listings is a step in the right direction. Someone has mentioned that they've changed management in the last year or two and things have gotten better in both quality and accuracy. This is the first year I've ever ordered from Hortico, so we'll see how they do. Your experiences and others like it are why I've never ordered from them in the past, as you're right this was deplorable. Not responding to emails to cover over their own gaps in policy quality and practice is very poor business in a small area like roses.

Your Lillian is fantastic - unfortunately mine doesn't look anything like that good or I'd have mentioned her earlier. I can't find a single picture of her, but now I'm eagerly looking forward to a bloom.

Aw heck, Beth - there's always room for more roses, particularly now that the great septic tank debacle is finally finished. You obviously need to console yourself with more roses...

Cynthia

Where did you get your Lillian, Cynthia? From an own-root nursery? I ask because it might be one of those roses that need grafting to display their full potential.

I agree that the new listings at Hortico are a big step in the right direction. At the risk of sounding like a chronic complainer, though, I have to say that it has taken most of the fun out of browsing that site. There were so many new and exotic roses that I wanted whenever I went there, and there was at least a slim chance of getting some of them.

I think you've convinced me to place a small order from Hortico. It takes very little to convince me, though, so you shouldn't feel responsible if I have another bad experience. I do want a grafted Las Vegas to take the place of the spindly own-root weakling I now have. I'll check and see what else they have that I might want.

Ah, it's good to know that Las Vegas is spindly on its own roots - I was thinking it was just me. My Lillian was probably from Roses Unlimited, so definitely own root. In my zone I have to bury the graft so deep that virtually all my grafted roses go own root in a few years, so I might as well start out that way. For instance, In The Mood was a big powerful plant grafted in its first year and by the second year and for the next 5 has been a rather runty 2-cane wonder. Not bad, just not exciting, but inevitable in my zone. A vast majority of the roses that have faded for me after 3-4 years have been grafted roses, and if they don't go own root they just seem to die anyway. I'm still happy to plant grafted roses to give them a better headstart, but it does mean I temper my longterm expectations.

Glad to see it wouldn't be my fault if you gave Hortico another try, not that you need much encouragement as you say (smile). I agree that the listings are much less exciting, but at least they're arguably real.

Do let us know how an order goes!

Cynthia

Like a fool, I went through all of the Hortico listings, hoping to find 3 for a small order, but I actually found closer to 30!. I've decided to order 9, so I'll order Las Vegas, Milestone, and The Dark Lady as replacements for my disappointing own-root roses. I'll order Jessika because I love it and it deserves to be in more than one part of my garden. I'll order The Crocus Rose, The Alnwick Rose, and Wise Portia because $18.99 is a great price for Austins. The eighth and ninth will be two of three I'm contemplating, but I'd like to hear some opinions. King's Macc, Royal Parks, and Seventh Heaven. Beth, I think you have all three. Do you like them? If they aren't fabulous, I'll just replace two other struggling own-root roses in my garden: Sight Saver and Waltz Time (Saint-Exupery).

Uh oh! You're ordering more?!! LOL Ok, my ROYAL PARKS is an own root from Heirloom and it hasn't done a whole lot. KINGS MACC is a good one. Grows about 4ft+, blooms decently and I think it's fairly disease resistant. It gets some nice colors on it. Goes thru peach, pale pink, apricot, and cream. SEVENTH HEAVEN grows taller, about 6ft at times, pretty much the same as KM otherwise. Good rebloom, good disease resistance, etc. Nice light orange blooms.

KING'S MACC

SEVENTH HEAVEN

ROYAL PARKS - the only bloom so far...

I am indeed ordering more. I started the season by not placing a Palatine order for the first time in years because the sheer number of rose bushes in my garden was getting ridiculous (I was already complaining about having no more room for roses about 500 roses ago), but then I ordered roses from Regan's, Rosemania, and Ludwig's and went to a few local nurseries and ended up buying 23 new roses so far this season, so I guess the ridiculous collecting is bound to continue.

Thanks for the pictures. I love King's Macc. I'll definitely get that one.

I placed my order: Las Vegas, Milestone, Jessica, King's Macc, Crocus Rose, Darcey Bussell, The Dark Lady, Wise Portia, and Wife of Bath.

I decided to get more Austins because Palatine doesn't carry them anymore and Pickering's gone, so this is the only way I can get Austins grafted onto R. multiflora, which doesn't appeal to gophers. This is a big thing in my garden because all own-root roses and roses grafted onto Dr. Huey have to be planted in gopher-proof cages. This adds $5 to the cost of each and still isn't a 100% guarantee that the gophers won't get them (they can enter the cage from above and tunnel down to get the roots). The gophers don't like multiflora and fortuniana roots, so I always opt for them if possible.

So what's next, Beth? A thread of Delbard roses, Legrice roses, Dot roses, Jerabek roses...?

That's a nice list. Yeah I was trying to get as many DAs as I could from Hortico since they're so much cheaper. Do you have BREDON? I got it last yr. Am looking forward to seeing it this yr. It'll be staying in a pot til I get around to doing the final DA bed. My husband still has to dig out the last tree stump tho before I can start planting in there. Also have a bunch of irises to let bloom before digging them out of that area.

So.. Zuzu why don't you go ahead and pick a breeder and start the next thread...

No, I don't have Bredon. What a beautiful rose! It looks similar to Perdita, but some of the pictures of it on HMF look like Ralph Moore's roses with the wonderful dahlia-like arrangement of petals.

You know, I just joined a week ago, so I'm not even sure how to start a thread. Just pick any breeder and I'll hop in with photos.

Pete Musser is another of Ben's beauties, incredible show form at times.

See photo at help me find below:
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.167001

That's very pretty, Steve. Do you have any photos of Ben's other beauties to add to this thread?

Zuzu, whaddaya mean you just joined a week ago??? Are you serious? I thought you'd been here for awhile! Ok, I'll figure out what breeder we should do next.. I know Sara-Ann has done a bunch of them over the winter. But there might be some she missed....

I've been active on a bunch of gardening sites for years and I've even set up a whole rose database on one of them. I've read the threads here for years, but i never joined until someone said that Queen of Hearts Freelander was never available in North America. Misinfomation really annoys me. LOL.

Aha... Yes that was an interesting thread, wasn't it?

I just received my Hortico order that I talked about on March 31st. Most of the roses are skimpy (but not dead, so that's an improvement over my Hortico orders of years ago). I'll take skimpy, however, because they actually delivered all nine of the roses I had ordered and gave me $6 off on every rose but one. Luckily, that rose is Las Vegas, which is the one I really, really wanted. It has four fat canes and three thinner ones.

The freight costs had to be adjusted, and Hortico apologized for the increase. All in all, I came out ahead because the shipping increased by $11.50 ($38.86 instead of $27.36), but the rose prices decreased by $48.00. I now trust Hortico again, but I'll place my order earlier next season.

Wow, that's very cool Zuzu! I look forward to seeing pics of the blooms! Some of my new Hortico roses are starting to bloom. Will have to get pics of them as they open up.

Zuzu I totally agree about the Hortico bare roots being among the smallest in the business. The main canes are somewhat larger than pencil thick and the root systems look like strings (but there are plenty of them). At least they haven't artificially pruned the roots back like another bare root company I order from, but they're still quite small. If you put a lovely richly rooted Palatine bare root against the Hortico bare roots, it's like an elephant vs a mouse. Still, the canes look healthy enough.

There still are some problems in their Hortico website though, BTW. I ordered their climber collection because I really wanted to replace my Nahema and no one else had it in stock. Also, there were 5 climbers for $75 listed, none of which did I have (never happens usually). Well when the website rang up the $75 collection for $81, I figured there were some hidden shipping costs and didn't think any more about it. When I got the roses, the climbers were a totally random collection most of which I already had. Turns out the website linked to their "random collection" page rather than the special listed without telling you. Their service representative says she's been working on what to do about this (um, maybe send me what I ordered?), and so far no word yet all this week. At least she acknowledged that it was a website glitch and not my error.

Good job making use of the discount for $6 each Zuzu - how did you manage that one? That makes a big difference in deciding to add to your 500+ roses. Hope they do well for you this time around.

Cynthia

I agree that these roses can't compare to Palatine's lovelies, Cynthia. They're so small in comparison, but I assumed that was the reason they gave me the discount on all the roses but Las Vegas, which does look like it could have come from Palatine. If they hadn't given me the discount, I'd be gravely disappointed with the order, but who can complain about Austins for $12.99 each?

That really is lousy about the random collection of climbers. I hope they can make it up to you in some way.

Will Hortico supplant Palatine as my favorite rose source? Not a chance. Neither will Ludwig's, but I'm happy to add two sources to my list after the past decade of dwindling sources.

Hi Zuzu - I agree that Austins at $12.99 are definitely a steal! As for the climbers, I just got a lovely note from their customer representative and they'll be sending me the correct climbers for postage only. Since other companies require sending postage for replacement roses that seemed reasonable to me. She accompanied it with a very nice note apologizing for the glitch and promising to fix the website. Can't ask for more than that. I think they really are trying, and as she said they're a small family business trying to make things work. I am overall pleased with the order experience and will add them to my list of companies to peruse each year. As you say, it doesn't replace Palatine in favorite bare root companies (I'm still partial to own root roses in my cold zone), but they're much improved of late.

While I have their ear I intend to beg for Bella Renaissance and Circus Days to get returned to their lineup...A girl can hope!

Cynthia

Hortico really is doing a good job these days I think... compared to say, 10yrs ago. And let me tell you... their roses catch up pretty darn well to the Palatines. You won't be disappointed for the most part. Some of the roses I got from them this yr are opening up. I'm going to like this one...

This is CHESS a magenta-purpley floribunda. Kind of a spready one. It has another big stem with a spray like this about 2ft across from it! I didn't notice any scent.

Also got THE MAYFLOWER which is small, but already giving me a bloom..

And in a few days... FREE SPIRIT should have a fully open bloom. The others are coming along nicely, but ready to bloom quite yet.

I'm glad to hear that the climber issue was resolved, Cynthia, and I agree that the request for postage is not out of line. Good luck with Bella and Circus Days. My favorite roses of the Renaissance line are Bering Renaissance and Bonita Renaissance.

The Mayflower's exciting, Beth. It's becoming fairly hard to find.

Wow!! I love your Chess!! There are so many nice fat buds too!!

I didn't order any this year from Hortico...there weren't any that I really wanted - since I've ordered from them so much, and they didn't change their selection this year that I could notice.

My Palantines are enroute now!!

Carol

Resurrecting an older thread. Question about Delany Sisters, do any of you have a picture of the cane or the thorns? I planted this last year, it did amazing, bloomed well & a vigorous grower. Now that I'm looking at the bare canes about to start my spring prune; I see that the thorns on this are the worst I've ever seen on a rose. Wondering if it's normal? I knew it was quite thorny last year, but the canes that really grew became quite vicious. @bethnorcal - I noticed in your description of this rose you said it was thorny. Newer to rose growing, so I'm wondering if excessive thorn growth is a sign of something bad. It does not look like the pics of thorns of rrd that come up in google. Thanks if anyone can give me an answer.

My one and only Wiliam's rose

Mrs. Frederick Lee..a shrub rose

HalloBlondie, I don't have a picture of Delany Sisters' thorns, but I can agree that they are vicious -- the most vicious thorns in my garden, in fact. Even worse than the thorns on Snowfire.