New u shaped kitchen with island from scratch

8 years ago

I'm feeling overwhelmed with deciding on layout of new future kitchen and trying to decide on zones, basically the sides of the ù will be 15 feet and the bottom of u is 12 feet and will have a sink in the middle because of window, also we are thinking of island in middle. Maybe 4 feet by 4 feet.?

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mama goose_gw zn6OH

8 years ago

last modified: 8 years ago

This is rough, but if you could move the door leading to the laundry, you could have a kitchen divided into zones--clean-up on the left, near the laundry plumbing, prep on the right leg, and cooking m/l in the middle. If you needed water while at the cooktop, the clean-up sink is convenient. I moved the island closer to the cooktop, and extended the length enough to accommodate a prep sink.

Good kitchen planning info: New to Kitchens? Read me first.

Images of ranges/cooktops between windows.

Amy Birdsong

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Comments (25)

beachem
8 years ago
Christy draw it out along with the dimensions of the room on graph paper and post here. It will help both you and the GWers to visualize your space.

I've found that pencil and paper have been my best design tool a do can barely make stick figures.
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Stan B
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Agree it really needs to be drawn out (the kitchen as well as the entire living area of the house). We have a 14 foot wide U kitchen with an island. It works for us (2 slim adults and no kids) but is a little narrow. I don't think I'd ever want a 12 foot wide U-shaped kitchen with an island. The aisles and the island would be way too narrow. You might be able to do an L plus an island.

Is this in new or existing house? If new I think you'll want to redesign the entire area around the kitchen. If it's a remodel the GW community will try to help but make sure you give some clear parameters if your budget won't allow moving the kitchen to a different part of the house.

Narrow U shaped kitchens, especially with walls on 3 sides, don't get a lot of love here but folks will help work through it as best they can.
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OK - I may have gotten a little carried away...but here's a layout with what appear to be all your wants. I don't see a pantry, so I added cabinets behind the island as well as b/w the DR and TV room for extra storage. You actually have plenty of storage in this kitchen! The base cabinets on the top wall are 27"D (but could be as deep as 28.5"), the upper cabs on the top wall are 15"D. There are two excellent Prep Zones, although I would prefer to prep on the island facing everyone! (Prepping is 70% or more of the work/time in the kitchen; cleaning up is 20% or less.) The Cleanup Zone is out of the way of the Prep and Cooking Zones and there's no crossing through the Cleanup Zone to get to the Refrigerator or MW. With an undercounter MW like a MW drawer, you don't lose counterspace or have anything in the vertical space b/w the counters and cabinets. There's a nice stretch of counter to the left of the ovens,for a snack center or even a tea/coffee center (43" of counterspace). The ovens are in a 31.5" wide cabinet - the reasonable minimum needed for 30" wide ovens (which I assume the wall oven is at least - I don't know how wide your steam oven will be). There's a 42" wide counter-depth refrigerator - hopefully that will allay your DH's concern about a counter-depth model... In the DR, the table can be moved a bit to the left, especially if you don't put an outside door in the DR. Moving the table to the left will give you a few more inches b/w the shallow cabinets and the table. Note that the cabinets b/w the DR and TV Room are 6" taller than standard - that means the counter will be 42" high (bar-height). The cabinets + counters not only give you more storage space, but they also provide you with a separation b/w the DR and the TV Room as well as provide counter space in both places. The cabinets are 12" deep, but the counter is 15" deep. The TV Room has a sofa and chair - the chair can be moved to view the TV or stay where it is for conversation and visiting. (I even added end tables :-)) A note about the doors - I don't understand why you don't like the "line of sight" from the front door to the back door. The problem is, that middle section is the ideal spot for the back door - no obstructions, easy access to the kitchen, and out of the way of all work zones and seating areas. It keeps the traffic out of everyone's way - it's the perfect location! Put up some nice window/door dressings and you'll have a pleasant view for anyone entering your home from the front door. I wouldn't want the door to be in the kitchen (in the 8' span) b/c it would draw everyone through the kitchen to get to the backyard - the last thing you want in a kitchen! The island will help direct people around, but inevitably, some people will choose to go through the kitchen (b/w the island and perimeter) and get in your way - especially if someone is sitting at the island. If you absolutely must have the door there, then I suggest a sliding door with the opening as far away from the kitchen as possible - so that would mean the bottom of the 8' span. The rest can be windows. It's still going to be an issue, though... Here's the layout (select/click on a picture to see a bigger version): I labeled the cabinets and counters with suggestions for storage and usage - but you should tailor it to what would work for you... Here's a zone map:
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Hi lyfia, all great questions. Love your mudroom suggestion, I had a layout JUST like that in one version! And yes, I have wondered if I'm designing 'too much kitchen' for this house. The island layout (#2) seems especially out of sync with the house size to me but the U shape doesn't have the same "overly large feel" to me. I can appreciate that it might look that way so I will give it some more thought. Yes the dining area is a bit constrained. Do you mean it's not expandable due to island/peninsula barriers? I've thought about that, and right now I don't have a great solution although I think with a banquette and expandable table we should be able to seat 8 comfortably and 10 in a squeeze. Ten people at a sit-down meal is going to be fairly infrequent (holidays) so I felt like the layouts would work. But I'll give it more thought. I haven't really wanted to formally combine the kitchen and living room areas, but do you mean just having a kitchen layout where seating is more-or-less where it is currently, so that it can be expanded into the LR when needed?
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In the meantime.... First, I'd ditch the upper cabinets on the range wall and have the cabinets on the sink wall and refrigerator wall die into the range wall. That will (1) eliminate corner storage -- often wasted space, (2) open up the range wall more, and (3) allow you to move the windows to allow for windows + breathing space on either side of the rangehood. Second, I'd keep the upper cabinets on the both sides of the sink wall's window....but, I'd also probably increase the size of the window. Third, I'd get a more effective and functional rangehood. The one you're showing may look nice, but it isn't very functional. I'm assuming you cook and this is not just a show kitchen -- correct? You need a cavity/cup to corral the FOGSS (fumes, odors, grease, steam, smoke, etc.) for effective venting. A flat one doesn't allow for that. It becomes especially important when your rangehood is not flanked by upper cabinets and when it's flanked by windows. These two reasons are also major reasons why you should stick with your original plan for a rangehood at least 6" wider than your range. And no, don't count on the windows acting as ventilation over your rangehood. You need something above the cooking surface, not to the sides. FOGSS rises and expands, but rises more than expands. Also, if that range is gas, you may have issues with air from the windows interfering with the burner flames. The FOGSS expansion is why you need a wider rangehood -- to capture the FOGSS and allow the fan to vent the FOGSS outside. If you had upper cabinets flanking and up against the rangehood, you might be able to get away with a rangehood with a width = the width of the range. Unless...do you plan to grill or do high-heat cooking (e.g., stir-fry, frying in general, or even a lot of browning of meat)? If so, stick with the 6" wider rangehood. Other comments: Your kitchen really isn't wide enough for truly functional island -- you need about 13" more space to have sufficient aisles to allow you to be able to move around in the Kitchen with the island in the middle. The bare minimum needed: . 25.5"D Sink counters + 45"W aisle + 27"D island + 42"W aisle + 30"D refrigerator/freezer = 169.5" (5.5" more than what you have) (the 45" aisle is so you can have the DW open and still slip b/w it and the island.) 42" aisles are the minimum recommended for a one-person kitchen; 48" for two or more people. . Remember, though, that 48" wide aisles on all sides are better if you plan on having more than one person working in the Kitchen at the same time (two or more cooking or prepping or cleaning up or getting a snack, etc.) So, 169.5" + 3" + 6" = 178.5" (14.5" more than what you have) If you reduce the aisle b/w the refrigerator & island to 45", then 178.5" - 3" = 175.5" (12.5" more than you have) <== this is the bare minimum I recommend . Also, 27" is really a bit shallow for a working island, it's better at 30"D, with 36"D even better. Adding another 3" to the depth of the island: 178.5" + 3" = 181.5" (17.5" more) <== this is what I would prefer overall . Do you need to have cabinets/counters on both sides of the Kitchen? To be honest, right now those counters b/w the refrigerator and range are wasted space since they're not in a good place for a work zone. Would you be willing to switch the sink and range walls and eliminate the cabinets/counters on the left wall? If so, you could have an island with seating: . 30"D refrigerator/freezer + 48"W aisle b/w perimeter and island + 42"D island + 44"W aisle behind the seats = 164" ... exactly what you have right now! (13'8" = 164") I would KEEP the prep sink to make the island functional instead of just a barrier b/w primary work zones. E.g., right now, the island is a major "barrier island" b/w the refrigerator and the perimeter sink -- which will be your only sink if you eliminate the prep sink in the island. The island prep sink is the main thing that allows this Kitchen to be functional. If you take it out, you will have a very unpleasant place to work. Refrigerator & Freezer: Are these going to be true built-in appliances? Not counter-depth (CD) or standard-depth (SD), I mean built-in? I'm asking b/c if they are not going to be true built-in and, instead, are going to be counter-depth, then keep in mind that the majority of counter-depth refrigerators and freezers are actually 30" or more deep when you count the doors & handles. "Counter-depth" only refers to the refrigerator (or freezer) carcass -- the box only. The doors & handles add additional depth. The reason they're deeper is that the doors & handles of CD (and SD) refrigerators/freezers need to stick out past the surrounding counters, cabinets, walls, etc., to allow them to open fully. Standard-depth are even deeper (usually closer to 36"D). If they are CD, then you will need to add another 3" or so to the 13" I discussed above (so, 16" more). I'd move the DW to the right of the sink to get it out of the Prep Zone b/w the range and sink. Even with a prep sink in the island allowing the island to be the primary Prep Zone, that space b/w the range and wall sink will still function as a secondary Prep Zone. (You haven't told us about yourselves, so I don't know if both you and your husband cook, if you have children you will eventually be teaching how to cook & cleanup, etc.) . Let me see what I can come up with for you.
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Stan B
8 years ago
Ah! Big difference to have a 15 foot base vs a 12 foot base! Now there's hope!!!!
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friedajune
8 years ago
I'll start with the oven needs to be close to the cooktop, not across the kitchen from it. How big is the sink base cabinet? What size is the refrigerator and cooktop?
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Christy Hare
Original Author
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Actually we did consider to move door to laundry so you aren't walking around cabinets to.get through door
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mama goose_gw zn6OH
8 years ago
Great!

I left the island at 4' deep, but you could subtract a few inches--41-42" is the minimum if you want seating.
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PRO
Linda Mayo
8 years ago
how wide is the window in the middle?
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cawaps
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
It's time for another link to the ice-water-stone-fire thread.

Edited to add: I miss Marcolo.
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Christy Hare
Original Author
8 years ago
Well no window set right now since it will be a new addition so we can do whatever we want with it, or add the 2 window idea
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PRO
Linda Mayo
8 years ago
Did you originally have something in mind for that cabinet in corner on the lower left? It does seem to be a disadvantage as has been mentioned from the perspective of this drawing. Although, what impact will it have on the adjoining room though? Is the short wall in the laundry intended to be the end run of the washer and dryer? Has that room been designed yet? Is that cabinet on the lower left to be for dishes for an adjoining dining room? If so, it might be helpful to minimize traffic flow in the work area. If not, and you don't need that short wall in the laundry/back porch area, it would help keep the traffic out of the work area, if you could remove it.
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Christy Hare
Original Author
8 years ago
When I did that photo of our layout above I had forgotten we had talked.about moving door on the left so there isn't that little.cabinet area on the left. So assume now that's gone. The laundry room will be new too. Dining room will be to the lower left from.there
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Christy Hare
Original Author
8 years ago
Moving the cook top to the other wall will definitely have to think.about. Didn't even.consider it because figured usually sinks are put where you can put a window.
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Christy Hare
Original Author
8 years ago
So thanks so much for the idea!
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Christy Hare
Original Author
8 years ago
Mama goose - what are you showing in the upper right corner? Is that supposed to be a mixer? I'm actually wondering what im.goi g to.do with that. It's too tall or our cabinets are.too low for it to fit under. Can other people fit these under this cabinets? But maybe that wall won't have upper.cabinets...though losing cabinet space is.a hard thought too... but an extra window for more light seems like a good.idea too.
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mama goose_gw zn6OH
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Yes, it's a KA mixer. I love mine so much, it's kind of a joke that I stick in a mixer sometimes. :) The tilt heads (14" tall) will fit under cabs that are mounted at a standard 18" above the counter, but I don't have a taller lift-up model, so I don't know the specs. I like keeping my mixer out, and even adjusted the shelves above where it sits, so that I can tilt it up without first pulling it forward. I put my cookbooks on the open shelves above. If you don't want open shelves, and can do custom cabs, you could have a shorter cabinet there, or if you're planning 36" or 42" tall upper cabs, go for the shorter one on that end. I'd have the cabinets on the side walls end at the wall, not continue around--same as the example pic I posted.

You can unload your dishes to drawers under the 'extra prep' area, and to the upper cabinet on that side, and anyone who is loading or unloading the DW, or gathering dishes to set the table, will not be interfering with the prep and cooking functions. The only obstacle I see is that the dishes and utensils used for prep will need to be carried across the kitchen to the clean-up area.

I forgot about trash pull-outs; you could have a trash pull-out in the prep area, and an under sink trash pull-out in the clean-up zone.

BTW, at 15' wide, I don't think there's a problem with any of your aisles, especially if you decrease the island depth to 42", which would include a 24" standard depth cab + 1" overhang + back panel + NKBA recommended minimum 15" seating overhang.

NKBA guidelines
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Christy Hare
Original Author
8 years ago
Now if I have that layout... I need a good spot for our microwave. We don't want to do over the cabinet mounted because its too high for the kids, and don't want it under because that just seems ackward. Anyone see an issue if its to the left of the ovens? Or maybe if the panty cabinet to the right of fridge had a counter space between cabinets and below. Everywhere has such great ideas on this site.
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mama goose_gw zn6OH
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
I was thinking left of the ovens, on a shelf, with an open shelf between the MW and window, since the MW is deeper than a standard upper cab. Or you could put a drawer in the island. When the island is not being used for prepping a meal, it could be a snack prep center, with the fridge, pantry, water source, and MW all within arm's reach.

I added a few more details, since you think the plan is workable:

ETA, you could also incorporate the MW into the pantry cabinet, with a pull-out board underneath, for landing space. Images--MW in pantry cab
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Christy Hare
Original Author
8 years ago
My husband is not too excited about no window at sink.. and thinks the 2 windows would take away too much cabinet space. (which i'm worried about that too) but if the kitchen functions better.. I would take it)
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PRO
Linda Mayo
8 years ago
Will this be custom or standard cabinetry?
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lharpie
8 years ago
There are lots of threads around here about not having a window at the sink if you want more food for thought there. Personally I would absolutely not do a kitchen of that size with only one window - unless it was HUGE or you have a ton of light coming in from elsewhere. It would probably be helpful to have a whole house floor plan as well.
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kksmama
8 years ago
"I wish I had less light in here, could we board up this window and/or close the sunlight" said no one, ever. As you work on the layout, pay attention to all the options you have for that window and be thankful.
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Buehl
8 years ago
It would help to know a little bit more about you and your family - right now, people are designing with only a rough idea of what you want. E.g., do you want seating at the island? If so, you will need wider aisles on the seating side (unless the seats are on the open side).

I will link to the "Layout Help" FAQ as well as the Kitchen Design FAQ threads at the end. The Layout Help FAQ will ask you a few questions to help us come up with a design that will fit your lifestyle, family, etc.

Regarding aisles...some of the info up-thread is a bit misleading. Any/all work aisles should be a minimum of:
- 42" if it is a one-person work aisle (and always a one-person work aisle) - this means only one person prepping/cooking/prepping/cleaning up at one time in the same aisle - not someone prepping while someone else is cleaning up, cooking, etc. If each primary work zone is on a different aisle, then all aisles can be 42".
- 48" if more than one person will be working in the aisle at the same time - someone prepping while someone else is also prepping or cooking or cleaning up.
Note that if you have seating on a primary work zone aisle, than add another 18" to the aisle IF the overhang is a minimum of 15" of clear leg/knee space. If the overhang is less then 15", add that 18" plus whatever your overhang is lacking (e.g., if you have a 12" overhang, then add yet another 3" to the aisle.)

For a less-used work zone aisle with seating (e.g., Snack Center), add 12" (plus the missing overhang depth, if any).

.

Layout Help:

How do I ask for Layout Help and what information should I include?
- http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2767033/how-do-i-ask-for-layout-help-and-what-information-should-i-include
.

Kitchen Design FAQ threads:

Kitchen work zones, what are they?
- http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638270/faq-kitchen-work-zones-what-are-they
Aisle widths, walkways, seating overhangs, work and landing space, and others
- http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638304/faq-aisle-widths-walkways-seating-overhangs-work-landing-space-etc
How do I plan for storage? Types of Storage? What to Store Where?
- http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638376/faq-how-do-i-plan-for-storage
Ice. Water. Stone. Fire (Looking for layout help? Memorize this first)
- http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2699918/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first
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Buehl
8 years ago
What is the layout of the rest of the floor? Do you have a separate Pantry? Reach-in/step-in/walk-in pantries are far more useful & versatile than pantry cabinets - and much less expensive!
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Buehl
8 years ago
What's the scale of your drawing? It's not 1 box = 1 ft b/c then the base of the "U" would be 16'6"
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New u shaped kitchen with island from scratch

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