I'm sure Rachel gets the point by now and should be forgiven, she is after all a rose-aholic and sometimes we get a little crazy :).

Sadly, from the point of so many great horticultural resources closing, I think there should be no guarantee beyond safe healthy arrival. After that...caveat emptor, unless obviously they were infected with something that causes the whole crop to fail....and that wasn't a healthy arrival. Basically, you should inspect carefully newly arrived plants, and inform the sender of any that don't meet your requirements...after that, it's your fault.

I agree Boncrow! We do get pretty crazy over roses, don't we? The only time I will buy from Heirloom anymore, is when they have a rose no one else carries and it's on sale. You guys do realize they put various categories of roses on sale every few weeks right? It might be awhile til any I want will come up on sale, but I can wait. The bands aren't so bad not on sale, but the gallons are way too much for me even including shipping. Right now, the two I want are not available in bands, and unless they put them on sale, I won't be buying the gallons. They told me the ones I want won't be available until maybe Fall. So I'll wait.

Beth, you have so many lovely roses to keep you company while you are waiting (and I enjoy seeing them in the rose gallery) :-)

Thanks, Boncrow. I hope Rachel finds her budded Eden on fortuniana. That rose would be spectacular.

And don't forget she is also grieving over the loss of her rose and just going through the steps of grief: anger, denial, sadness and finally acceptance. :):)

So true Boncrow

Rachel if you happen to find a Eden on fort please let us know, I would love to have one on fort, I agree that would be spectacular.

Current pricing for non-dwarf or miniature grafted nursery stock in one gallon pots or similar - that is about one year or so since the graft - at independent garden centers in my area is ~$35. That includes an 'AUSmixture' rose I special ordered, which they didn't tell me to come and get until after they potted it up.

Little stick with branches only on one side (half a top). Looks like it might not make it, have seen no new shoots.

32 something plus tax.

Are the mail order places being griped about here genuinely "expensive" or is that just today's prices?

One variable will be how much cheaper we expect cutting raised plants to be than grafted ones. Except the independent dealer here that still sells a big line of roses offers a mix of both yet I am pretty sure has them all priced the same. Or at least similarly.

I bought a huge grafted Eden from Palatine last summer, I think it's grafted on multiflora. Will that do for you guys down deep south?

They have to have fortuniana, because of nematodes. Probably Kublakan's idea of hiring budding services is the best bet. I looked at nurseries that use fortuniana rootstalk, but didn't see Eden.

Thanks Jasmine. May be Burling can bud some for them.......she is the queen of budding roses I heard.

Burling is speaking at the Santa Clarita Rose Society in June about her work at Hearst Castle. I'm really looking forward to it.

As of now Heirloom has had my last dollar. They declined my warranty claim on grounds that alfalfa tea made from hay is not approved for fertlizing their roses. Ridiculous. Well, that's great news for all the other folks selling own root roses!

Come to Boise and patronize my favorite local rose seller, Edward's Greenhouse and Nursery. Three to five gallon pots are $25-30, depending on the rose, including Austins. If you reserve and pay for your roses before Mar 30, you get a 10% discount. They will keep your roses safe and sound in a special greenhouse just for them until it's your planting time. Diane

Nanadoll, thanks for the nursery advice! I will be passing through Boise next month and I'd like to pick up a few roses at that price. I will be giving them a call for sure.

braverichard, My goodness, that is absurd! I was willing to take their side against the OP, but now it sounds like they are simply aiming to use any information you provide them against you. I wonder if they have and can furnish a list of "approved" fertilizers if they are going to make that sort of argument.

Yes that was my argument and they did furnish me a list of what is approved by just pointing me to their planting guide which listed some options. My business with them was already winding down due to their high prices compared to everyone else and this was the last nail on the coffin.

Quite understandable in your case. If they are willing to blame the demise of their roses on an application of alfalfa tea then it certainly doesn't bode well for them.

I'm wondering if the concern regarding alfalfa hay is due to the possibility of residual herbicides?

No idea. In my case it was just one rose, I have order by my last count 45 roses from them in total, they have all been fed the same way, only 1 death last winter, 3 deaths the winter before that, that's it, 4 deaths out of 45. I don't see how my alfalfa tea did it. But hey it is what it is, alfalfa tea is not on their list of fertilizers for their new roses and so that was grounds to deny my request.

Let's all be honest here. I think braverichard should share the real reason that his claim may have been denied by Heirloom. What kind of fertilizer was used? Miracle Grow? Some other kind of granular? I'm willing to put money on it not being alfalfa tea at all. I just looked at my last set of instructions that came with my order. It is very clear that you can not use any granular fertilizers in the first year of your rose. It is also listed on their guarantee.

http://www.heirloomroses.com/info/about/guarantee/

Growing roses from Heirloom is easy. and I have never lost a single one of my 125 as I follow the directions to the letter.

I guess the reason I posted was the fake reason... made to make Heirloom Roses look bad right? Yeah... 'coz I own another nursery or work for one or something that I want to promote instead. I have no dog in the fight to choose any side. You clearly have a side and that's ok too.

I never said I followed their instructions to a T. Using my own made alfalfa tea is not in their instructions. I was just stating what I went through. Plain and simple. My business with them is over anyway. Good news for Heirloom: there will be lots of other customers. Bad news: eventually you lose enough customers and it hurts the bottom line and you may even be forced out of business.

I will not be responding to stupid personal attacks and/or questions of integrity online. Very easy to do from the keyboard!!!!

Looks like every single comment you've posted here has been in praise of Heirloom Roses. You must work there or even be part of the ownership.

Braverichard, I agree that the guarantee needs to be much more explicit about how it is to be applied if they are being as strict as all that. Or maybe I'm just ignorant as to how the hay differs. ??? Did they say what was wrong with hay vs pellets?

At least I feel better about not trying to put in a claim for my cankered* ones. I know for sure my word would not have been enough for proof now!

*The canker looked mild, really, but it was very low and girdled soon after. It probably depends on climate whether it was going to condemn the rose or do just fine.

The condition for the guarantee stated on the Heirloom Roses website is for no granular fertilizer to be used for the first year.

I called Heirloom Roses and asked if I could get a definite answer regarding the use of alfalfa and if it would in any way jeopardize their guarantee. I said I wanted to use it, because it has a low NPK rating and is recommended on the gardenweb for newly established plants. Their customer service person said she thought that would be fine, but recommended that I send an email to info@heirloomroses.com. I will let you know when I receive a response.

I let her know that this was a discussion on the gardenweb and that more than one person was concerned.

As for me, I don't care. I'm done with them lol. It wasn't just this incident to be honest, I have two friends who have had serious issues with them declining their warranty claims. Then another guy had a problem with them that I thought they were on the wrong side of the argument.

`I always paid the higher prices for the guarantee. I have no problem with no guarantees, ya know, "you get the plant, if it arrives good, you own it." Many other nurseries do the same. I lost a Pink Don Juan I got last year from Chamblee's. I contacted them about it, explained that I know their guarantee was up but wanted to see what they could do for me. They offered 50% off a replacement. I was glad and accepted it. End of story.

Anyone is free to take their business where they want. But IF there is someone at Heirloom Roses that is not honoring the guarantee the way they should, the owners should be notified. They deserve a chance to respond.

Nothing pleases us more than the passion that comes with growing and enjoying beautiful roses.

We at Heirloom Roses are committed to nothing short of providing premium quality own-root roses to you.

We understand that because we are dealing with live plants, some things may not always be perfect. Because of this, we offer a one year replacement warranty with a few conditions.

These include:

• Planting in the appropriate zone for the selected rose.
• Avoidance of granular fertilizer used when planting or when fertilizing in the first year.
• Neglect from the gardener.
• Abnormal or extreme weather conditions.

We do sometimes ask for the inclusion of photos of roses that have died in order to diagnose potential disease and support our ongoing quest of premium quality.

Every warranty is considered on a case by case basis and not taken lightly. We understand and embrace your love of roses and only deny a warranty when the above conditions are not met.

Our customer service team is highly trained and available to assist you Monday through Friday from 8am-5pm Pacific time.

We are proud of our A+ BBB rating and 5 Star Google ranking and very much appreciate your contributions.

We love our customers just as much as you love your roses.

Warmly,

Your Heirloom Roses Customer Service Team

Heirloom Roses Warranty

No, I am in no way affilated with HR but the response from them above only reinforces the class act that they are. Bravo!

Heirloom Roses' email response addressed the subject of alfalfa specifically:

..."Regarding fertilizing, the only thing we require diligently is that no form of granular fertilizer is used during the first year. This is a necessity due to tender roots that are not fully mature. Granular is simply too hot and will burn the roots and likely kill the rose. Alaska Fish Fertilizer is what we recommend. This information is in our warranty as well as with every order that leaves our facility.

Alfalfa is a nice additive and in fact, we do say that Alfalfa is rich in protein, vitamins, and minerals, and it has the ability to fix nitrogen and improve soil structure as it disintegrates. Alfalfa yields an alcohol, triacontanol, which is a growth stimulant that produces basal breaks. We recommend that you do not apply alfalfa as a heavy mulch on your roses. You only need to use 1 cup around each large rose bush, and less for minis. Use about three times a year.

We would not deny a replacement because of use of Alfalfa."...

So if you use a granular fertilizer, even a slow release one such as Osmocote, Miracle Grow Shake and Feed, etc. that negates the Heirloom Roses guarantee. You may not agree that these products shouldn't be used the first year, but I believe they have the health of our roses in mind.

Yeah I'm sorry but not honoring their warranty Bc you used alfalfa tea sounds to me like they just don't want to replace the rose, period! That's absurd!! I use alfalfa tea and pellets on ALL of my roses and they LOVE it!!! Young & old, big & small. That's just an excuse for being selfish on their part. As far as granular fertilizer on young roses you have to use the right amount Bc granulars can be very potent you can easily burn the rose. Especially if they're not being watered often and are left to dry out in between waterings. But honestly, if you use the right amount it will not kill a young rose. I've used both. It is very easy to burn a rose if your not Precise on the amount that needs to be used. As far as osmocote, i highly doubt that will burn a young rose IF used properly Bc it's slow release. I've never had a problem with osmocote. Now miracle gro is another story! I quit miracle gro a long time ago even the one marked for roses ( I believe) is just too strong & salty. From my own experience it's super easy to burn roses with miracle gro. I've been advised by many professional rose growers not to use miracle gro and after following the directions correctly and burning my roses anyway I stopped using it. I switched to organic feed like kelp/seaweed : fish: bonemeal: alfalfa ect... I find my roses are much happier and aren't easily burned by organic fertilizers.

Rachel, please see Heirloom Roses response in this thread and the excerpt of their email. Not only is Alfalfa is ALLOWED by Heirloom Roses, it recommended.

I'm hoping we can all move on. Wishing you the best.

I do want to comment on all the people that have said in their post I have a lot of nerve & guts to even ask Heirloom for a replacement when I was at fault for killing the Eden rose Bc it was without water. How dare I expect them to honor their warranty and I should've never started this forum to begin with......I'm not loud & rude but I am blunt and outspoken. They're are many nurseries that honor their warranties knowing that 60% of the time it's the growers fault for the death of the rose. Someone said if all nurseries gave out replacements to people who are at fault, it wouldn't be fair and they would go out of business. Your right for saying so !! But honestly, I did expect a replacement Bc I'm a dedicated customer and I spend a lot of money there and I mean it when I say way more than the average person. Now that's not a fair or good reason to give me a replacement either!!!! However many companies will do just that for those reasons. So I have to say from the bottom of my heart what I see often as far as business goes. My husband owns his own company & Bc of that he has many friends n associates that own companies also. When my hubby has a high paying customer that's upset with his business, even if it's not always his fault, will bend the rules to make the customer happy so he doesn't lose the account Bc there's a lot of money on the line his business could lose. When you own a business there has to be a balance between making profit and good customer satisfaction. You can't have one without the other. Many companies, ( mostly family or personally own ones/not major Corp.s ) when they have a dedicated customer who spends loads of money ( more than the average and more often) will over look the procedure of their warranty and honor it regardless. They bend the rules a little to appease the customer especially if it's a one time deal. I know it's not fair or right and people don't want to hear this but it's the honest truth and I see it happen often with my hubby and his business and business owners he knows. so yes after spending thousands of dollars each year on Heirlooms roses. I did expect a one time replacement rose. even if I was at fault for killing it. That's wrong and sad to say but Many companies will replace a dead rose at least once when it's a customer who's spends a whole heck of a lot with them wether it's the customers fault or the nurseries. It's balance between customer satisfaction & profit. Now I'm wrong for never purchasing from Heirloom roses again Bc they won't honor their warranty over a rose I killed but I think for the amount of money I spend on their roses every year I do deserve a one time replacement regardless. Not many people have the means or are crazy enough to spend that kind of money each year on roses from just one nursery. im thankful I can!! and I honestly was going to just purchase another Eden but I just bought $600 worth of roses from a couple other nurseries n didn't have the money at the time so I asked for the rose and I was totally surprised by their reaction and no I will not be buying from them again Bc of it wether it's wrong, stuck up or not.

As the customer, you absolutely have choices in terms of which companies you care to give your business to. Personally, I think it makes better business sense for Heirloom to apply a consistent warranty replacement policy, regardless of how much money an individual customer has spent with them. If they had decided to give you a freebie Eden in this case, you could have just as easily started a thread here about how great Heirloom is to replace a rose you were at fault for killing. And then other customers would have an expectation that they would and should do the same for them.

Rachel - they DID "honor their warranty". It is just that the warranty has conditions, like an insurance policy does. I used to underwrite insurance, and I always stressed to my customers (which were very large Fortune 1,000 size US companies) that there were terms and conditions, and that it was NOT an "anything which might ever go wrong" guarantee. We honored all of our claims, but that did not mean we gave them a blank check. Saying that HR did not honor their warranty is incorrect, and irritating when you say it over & over.

Jackie

I can see how you thought it would have been good business for them to send you a new plant, and you did tell them the truth about what happened to it, so you weren't trying to pull anything on them. I think it's nice when companies go out of their way to keep a customer happy...I think a lot of businesses care. But if the business says no I think it is a nice thing on the customer's part to accept their terms. I don't blame you for wanting your Eden and I'm sorry you were in the hospital and that this has been an unpleasant thread, my own contributions included. I did find the demand for a new plant a bit outrageous but you have some points.

I spend a lot of money on roses too - not $600 at a time but many times $100-200 per company. Sometimes I buy only a couple of roses, spending $50-85. My money is just as good as someone who spends $600. Sounds like Rachel is saying because SHE spends a wad, she should get special privileges in spite of the fact it was her fault. Is she saying that what I, and many others, spend is not important and all of us shouldn't deserve a free rose because it was our fault it died? Like we are less "important" than she? What's fair for one should be fair for all - and yes, I know many companies will bend rules for big paying customers. Heirloom has rules and they followed them and I respect that. Tough luck. Chalk it up to a loss - a loss that is Rachel's own fault. She should have left this complaint directly with Heirloom and pled her case there instead of bashing a good company online. After the loss of Vintage, etc. , rose companies are becoming more scarce by the year and should be appreciated for the service they provide to rose lovers. Heirloom has my business - am just getting my order together - and if I lose a rose because I don't water it and it dies, I will certainly not go whining to them for a replacement and will place the blame squarely where it belongs. Now......does anyone have buds or blooms yet?

Alameda you can take what i said however you choose, that's your opinion I never said anyone was below me !! like I'm better or my money's better! I don't work!! Lol .its not even my money....it's my hubbys money!!! I don't think I'm owed special privileges but I know how many businesses work and it is what it is. if your affended that's your problem. I did " chalk" up the loss and just purchased 2 Edens from elsewhere. I didn't Whine about anything. And I appreciate rose companies for their service by giving them a lot of business ! I would be in the looney bin without my roses!! heirloom could refurbish their place for the amount of money IVe spent there If it affended you I thought they would replace my rose Bc of that oh well. As far as money I don't work at a place of employment!! I take care of a lot of animals, 4 boys, my hubby n house and I believe I was born into this world without a shirt on my back or a dollar in my pocket and that's how I'm leaving. I do not feel ANYONES below me !! How rude for saying that's how my post came across Bc many times I stated its not fair but MANY personally or family owned businesses work that way. If that affendes anyone then I guess it is what it is! I used to bust my butt for every penny I got ! a single mom with 3 boys and had no idea how much money could buy until I met my hubby. When I say that I mean back when I was messing up I had to go to court and ended up into trouble but after meeting my hubby n ended up in court it was crazy to see how money would get me out of trouble so easily. No it's not fair but that's how the world works sometimes. Anyways that was back in the day before I got clean but I'm trying to prove a point. No ones money means anymore or less than another but if you have more of it, it does influence.

And excuse me Jackie for not being politically correct !!! But u know what I meant when I said that. I'm glad u find it irritating! I find people in general very irritating. Thank God for my roses & my baby, Bean.

And Jackie like I said before u can't compare a personally owned rose nursery to an insurance company or to selling horses. As far as warranty your right they do have terms n conditions and therefore I shouldn't say they didn't honor their warranty but like I said before other nurseries have warranties with terms n conditions also but that doesn't mean they're written in stone and they don't bend the conditions a little. David Austins warranty is void if I purchase a rose out of the time to plant bare roots for my zone Bc Florida gets so hot. Well one of the roses dried out & died, warranty voided but they replaced it anyways AND I even told them up front my warranty was voided but thought I'd ask anyways. It all just depends. Unless we receive the wrong rose most advanced gardeners know that most of the time if a rose dies it is our fault!!! Yet many of us will still receive replacements.

Meh, I could totally see asking if they'd throw in a free replacement rose for every thousand spent, my goodness! It is true that customers like that mean a lot to a small company. They certainly don't have to be as worried about losing my business when I only ever bought 4 sale roses from them, lol.

I've never complained about deficiencies in plant material I bought. Small businesses have a hard job. I figure you win some and you lose some.

The small internet companies sending out all kinds of rare roses are a blessing to all rose collectors. I don't think any of them are getting rich and many I talk to see it more as love of roses than a way to to get rich. Most are just scratching out a living. Consider the many rose companies that have been lost in the past few years and you begin to realize that it might be a difficult business. You speak of $1,000 spent as a lot of money (and it is) but if you think about it that just pays for one employee (including benefits) for one week. Replacing one rose means having to sell 3 or so roses just to break even.

I do appreciate a guarantee for a plant, but I think it is to be used when you think that what was sent to you did not measure up to expectations. I do not think it is an invitation to ask for refunds because you neglected to do something crucial. In the larger world of warranties think about your car - the warrant void if you don't do the recommended service on the car! Should roses be different?

Rachael you started this thread taking down the reputation of HR and many of us do not agree. I know you may not agree with us on the subject, but you sound like someone who really is passionate about roses. The rose world will be a poorer place if we do not support these small companies, so before we make all of them go broke remember it is already hard enough to find rare roses.

Dear Rachael Cross, I can entirely sympathize with your dismay over loosing your roses while in hospital. I hope you are better now.

I also raised children, two for me, mostly by myself in difficult and sometimes even desperate circumstances. Blessings on my late parents for teaching me how to be frugal and self-reliant. I believe I can completely understand that you don't like seeing good money go down the drain. I also know what it is like to have to make every penny count.

Nevertheless, I would also note that the business climate has become much more difficult for small and medium sized businesses, especially those offering a specialty product. In the days of prosperity, companies could easily afford special discounts and other favors for their best customers, now, I suspect, that is not the case. Also, the mere hint of someone else getting special treatment, however much justified, tends to infuriate the rest of a company's customer base. I would ask you to consider that companies like Heirloom simply cannot afford to make exceptions, and must treat the person buying one rose the same as the person who has ordered ten or twenty. Consider that once a company starts with favors and freebies, there is no end to it. First it is discount on large order for someone's estate being landscaped, then it is free plant for each of the workers, and then an extra free plant for the worker's Moms, and... you get the picture. I understand that is not what you were requesting, just replacement for roses already bought. Please consider that St. Paul, OR, is a very small town, and that the workers are local, and that favors for one customer will lead to demands for similar or other favors for others. Responsible nurseries are also having to compete with the big boxes, roses for 5$ AND unscrupulous flea market vendors, who neither know nor care about the names, much less patent status, of the roses they obtained from don't ask where.

Personally, I like the Heirloom business model, where I pay one shipping price for one rose instead of having to fill a box. I do not find the prices excessive, especially when I consider that Heirloom roses actually grow for me after being shipped across the continent. That said, I do think they ought to be offering the Eurodesert Roses, if only as special propagations for a price that justifies the extra effort.

Maybe if you become ill again, you could board potted plants with a caring neighbor? Or hire a neighbor's teenager to keep your plants watered?

Best wishes for your complete recovery.

I don't think anyone has mentioned the cost of shipping all the replacement roses to every customer who believes they are entitled to replacements even if the death was caused by the customers own neglect. Heirloom would have to absorb that cost as well. I'm a small business owner who ships nationwide and I can tell you that shipping costs are sky-high. What happens if the replacement dies because it didn't get watered, who takes responsibility for that one dying? I wanted to add that Home Depot will replace or give credit for plants that die for whatever reason but they are probably passing on that cost to the wholesale grower of the plant... it is called charge-back. I believe a lot of the specialty retail rose suppliers are being pressured to give warranties to compete with HD or Lowes or whatever big box even though their business model is completely different.

Wow......... this is a rediculous thread. I've ordered so many roses from Heirloom over the years. There roses always arrive healthy and wel packaged. I've never had an issue with them and that's why they have continually earned my business. Roses aren't low maintenance plants and when they arrive they need the right care. They also need the right care as time goes by if they are to thrive. If a rose arrives in poor condition I'm sure they would have replaced it. If some time went by and a rose is diseased I'm sure they'd replace it. Heirloom can't be expected to replace every rose that dies because it didn't receive proper care. That should be pretty clear to anyone when you read their warranty. After reading this thread, I think I'll just browse on over to Heirloom and buy just one more.

• I am so sorry! Did the gym refund your dues since you could not go? And your hairdresser surely gave you a new cut since you did not get full enjoyment out of the first. Just like the market replaced your dairy, veggies and fruit.

• Hope you are all better

• Guess I need to go place an Heirloom order

James you rock!

I am shocked and sad to see this thread. I adore heirloom roses and have been shopping from them for almost 4 years now. I have always experienced wonderful customer service and I have not lost one rose and they've all been so healthy when they arrived.

I'm not sure why you neglecting a rose would warrant a refund? That is crazy to me. They are running a business and from what I've heard there is a small margin of profit for nurseries because they have a lot of expenses.

i have several roses ordered that will be on their way to be in the next month and several on my wish list I'm hoping to snag soon. I hope new gardeners who stumble upon this post don't mistake your temper tantrum for truly bad customer service.

I had a rose, Rock and Roll, that I bought last spring. I bought 10 roses at the same time and everything grew and flourished except R&R. It never did anything. I documented with pictures its lack of growth as well as pictures of the roses that did very well. All the roses got the exact same care. I contacted them about it and sent them probably 15 pictures. They did question me about the care but not what I thought was too much. They were out of R&R at the time but offered to replace it this spring when it was back in stock. Yesterday I got an email from the saying my situation had been overlooked and would I like another rose to take its place. I originally was hesitant even to call them but was pleased with the outcome and will definitely order from them in the future.