Old rose I.D. help
mlle_melanie
8 years ago
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Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
8 years agomlle_melanie
8 years agoRelated Discussions
Can anyone help me ID this rose? Old rose on old homesite.
Comments (17)Your rose looks similar to a rose in the Sacramento Cemetery, our found rose, "Dr Peck's 12th Avenue Smoothie" is thornless, once blooming. Very fragrant. This found rose is thought to be the same as the Charles Lawson in commerce. Below is a link to a photo I took in the cemetery a few years ago. I liked this rose so much that I propagated it and planted it in my yard even though it is a once bloomer. It is quite vigorous and now takes up the back corner along the fence. Here is a link that might be useful: Dr Peck's 12th Ave Smoothie/Charles Lawson...See MoreHelp With Rose I.D.
Comments (7)I followed a link here from the Antique Rose forum, and posted a response there. I'm posting it again here, with a brief addition as to why it isn't a chimera. Chimeras result when an organism is composed of a mix of cells deriving from more than one zygote (fertilized egg). When you have a plant derived from asexual reproduction (as rose cultivars all are -- they are clones of an original plant), then every individual will thus have cells deriving from that first zygote. There may be mitotic errors (mistakes in cell copying) which can result in "sports" as seen in the third pic in the first post, but no plant grown from a cutting will contain genetic information from a different plant than the original (excepting, of course, for plants grown on a different rootstock, but in this case, there will be a delineation between one plant and the other at the graft union -- there will be no single branch or root which contains cells of both plants mixed together). Below is my response on the other thread: It's not a chimera -- that term gets tossed around incorrectly quite often. What this is is an example of a partial reversion or sporting -- there are pictures on HelpMeFind for 'Quatre Saisons Blanc Mousseau' showing similar partial reversions even within one flower. My thoughts on most "sports" is that they are not actually genetic mutations, but rather changes in how the genes are expressed, which is passed on via vegetative propagation (and also breeding, if the change in genetic expression is a result of methylation or a similar epigenetic phenomenon that is maintained in germ cells). The way it would work is like this -- when you see a branch "sporting" to a different flower color, or with the addition of moss, or into a climbing version, what you're seeing is genes present in the plant as a whole which are now expressed to a greater (or lesser) degree because of the arrangement of the DNA within the cells. But the actual sequence of genes remains the same. To give a simple explanation -- think of the genes as a list of ingredients in a recipe. The level of expression would be comparable to the quantities for each ingredient in the complete recipe. When a plant "sports" according to my idea, the ingredients don't change, but the quantities do. So if the recipe originally lists "eggs" and the quantity expressed is usually "2 eggs", a "sport" would result when, for whatever reason, the cell starts putting "4 eggs" into the recipe. This is a normal part of cell differentiation -- all our cells (except RBCs and eggs/sperm) contain all the same genes, but vary in the degree to which particular genes are expressed. This differentiation is usually fixed in most cells, with some exceptions. In plants, there is more flexibility regarding differentiation, allowing us to induce root cells to form on branches. It's probable that this "flexibility" leaves plants more prone to "sporting" than are animals. This change can result from proteins attached to the DNA strand, or methyl-group molecules, increasing or decreasing transcription rates of certain sections of the DNA. These changes can (but not always) be transmitted to offspring produced by sexual reproduction, but are most easily maintained in plants via asexual reproduction (i.e. taking a cutting of the "sported" branch). :-) ~Christopher...See MoreHelp I.D. Unknown Climbing Rose
Comments (2)We see these out here also. Has it really escaped, as in coming up on its own, from seed, or does it always indicate a former planting? Seems pretty unexpected that it would repeatedly come true from seed, unless it's producing apomictic (clonal) seedlings. Since the rose relations the hawthorns and mountain ashes are known to do this, unless someone knows otherwise it then appears it might be possible with roses....See MoreHelp with rose I.D
Comments (9)It's beautiful and looks like Jude the Obscure to me. Did you see the bush the cutting came from? The size and shape would help to ID your rose. Opinions on the fragrance of Jude are all over the place, but most agree it is strong and the Austin site says "fruity". In any case, I bet it is an Austiin rose. You could look at the David Austin website https://www.davidaustinroses.com/us/roses-by-type/english-roses and compare your rose to similar ones. Some to look at are Wollerton Old Hall, Desdemona and Claire Austin, all creamier colors, but can become more apricot or peach during cold weather. Sometimes I can hardly tell Desdemona and Jude apart....See Moremlle_melanie
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