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alexis717_df

Need Help and Opinions Please. Pic Included

alexis717_df
8 years ago

Originally posted on Heuchera forum, but it was suggested that this might get more comments if I posted to Perennials. Side note: Any other plant suggestions are most welcome. The plants currently there are being removed.

Friend is redoing an island at the entrance to an apartment complex. Every year he does annuals. Finally, finally he has decided to put in perennials. I'm so glad, cause I gotta tell you I really get tired of helping him plant the same annuals every year. We're in zone 6a/6b, Spokane, Washington. Now I'm primarily a hosta person, but he's not so on board with that. He's looking for foliage color instead of flowers. I've suggested Heuchera or Heucherella, with possibly Hakonechloa grass as a companion. He is primarily interested in the reds and likes the idea of a contrasting color and leaf shape. The area is roughly 150/175 square feet with paths of river rock. It is pretty much full sun all day. Gets watered regularly by a sprinkler system very early in the morning. The sprinkler schedule is flexible, but usually runs 3 times a week for 30 minutes per day during the cooler temps of spring. Although our summers have been slowly growing warmer, we usually only see temps above 90 for 2-3 weeks during summer. At those times the sprinklers run more often and for longer duration. Now I live maybe 6-7 miles away and have roughly 300+ hosta in my yard, ALL planted in full sun. So I'm not too worried about "shade" plants in his island. I would love your thoughts on this plan. Please be honest. I'm not very versed in Heuchera. Whatever he plants needs to have colored foliage, grow at a reasonable rate, the three year rule is ok with him but not super slow growers and nothing touchy. If you have other ideas I would love to hear them. We need to have a basic plan here in the next few weeks because I'm sure most of the plants will need to be special ordered. Thank you, in advance, for any and all input.

Comments (25)

  • callirhoe123
    8 years ago

    If this were my project, I would (1) get rid of all of the rocks...just looks messy, and (2) go to your best local nursery and ask for low-growing, sun tolerant perennials with colorful foliage. See what they have and make your choices. I'd avoid any mass planting of heucheras as they tend to heave out of the soil over winter. Good luck!

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    8 years ago

    unless you have quite a budget ... your new perennials might not fill their spots in the first season ... so you might want to think of some annuals to fill in.. while they get moving ... or maybe thats a MI thing ...


    i tend to agree the rocks seem random ... think about how to use them is a better way ... maybe even just moving them to the perimeter.. to make more of a rock wall effect ....


    ken

    alexis717_df thanked ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
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  • WoodsTea 6a MO
    8 years ago

    Seems like such a great situation for drought-tolerant native plants, like these from a local native plants nursery there:

    http://www.desertjewelsnursery.com

    I realize it's not what he's looking for at this point, but perhaps it'd be worth a visit to expand your friend's ideas of what could be done. That water bill must be pretty high in the summer, would be nice to be able to cut back.

  • alexis717_df
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    The picture doesn't show it very well but the rocks actually form paths. That being said some of the rocks will be removed but not a lot. Owner says no on completely removing rocks.

    Drought tolerant natives would be great except this area gets automatically watered during the dry season. Usually in the very early am and for anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour.

    Although hard to see there is a Nandina Firepower in the right hand corner. It's only a year old and about 16 inches tall, bright bright red at the moment. That plant will be staying.

    Yes Ken we will be planting annuals amongst the perennials, at least until they fill in an the budget is approximately $1,000.

    Any further ideas?

    Thank you

  • floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
    8 years ago

    $1000??? Good grief. And that's presumably excluding the cost of the water?

  • arlene_82 (zone 6 OH)
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Is your friend no longer interested in showy blooming perennials?

    http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/2833732/need-advice-flowering-groundcovers-and-moisture?n=6

    Some of the perennial salvias, shasta daisies, or geraniums might work well here and they tend to be fairly low maintenance. They may require a hard prune after their initial bloom flush to keep them looking neat, but not much care otherwise. Some of the hardy geraniums have interesting foliage as well, and they would make attractive combinations with Heucheras. I have G. phaeum 'Samobor' next to heuchera 'Palace Purple'. Samobor has dark purple splotches on its leaves which pick up the colors in the heuchera and I like the combination quite a lot.

  • WoodsTea 6a MO
    8 years ago

    My suggestion for drought-tolerant natives was based on the idea that you could have the irrigation turned off for that bed, or
    at least configured to run less. That would be fairly simple if the
    sprinkler heads for that bed were in their own zone. Someone is paying that water bill and he or she might find that suggestion appealing.

    I see that Spokane only gets 16.5 inches of precipitation annually. I'd love to grow the sort of desert and high prairie plants you can grow there (especially all that silver and blue foliage!), but in my case I'm dealing with a precipitation baseline of 40 inches a year. For you it's just a matter of finding the right person to stop the automatic watering...

  • tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
    8 years ago

    Maybe move the rocks to form an arrowhead? The bed shape is nearly there already and the name of the place, after all, is "View Point Villa".

    Most of the Pacific Northwest folks here are on the other side of the state, but perhaps someone can suggest a good conifer nursery in your area. In addition to perennials, that bed is calling out for low growing conifers. Even common low growing junipers like 'Mother Lode' or 'Blue Star' would look good there along with the perennials you pick.

    tj

    alexis717_df thanked tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
  • ruth_mi
    8 years ago

    Why are there paths and does anyone use them? I could see a small path or two for access, but that's so busy it's hard to look at. I also don't see any area that looks like it's being used as a path - every area seems to have plants dotted through it.

    I think that whatever you decide, it needs some large masses of plants.

  • alexis717_df
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Arlene... blooming perennials are not out of the question. They would need to be relatively low growing (under 16" or so), have colored foliage when not in flower and low maintenance.

    Woods... Reconfiguring the sprinklers is a great idea, i'll talk to him about that.

    Tsugajunkie.... Could not agree more. I would love to see some groupings of low growing conifers and I have suggested this in the past, to mixed reviews.

    Originally there was a pond in the center of this island, which has since been removed. The paths were created, and planted with blue flowers to simulate waterways.

    I've been showing him everyone's responses and he is going to take out more rocks and paths, but the larger boulders will be staying.

    The owner insists on color at the entrance. His ideal would be a perennial that is low growing, low maintenance, blooms continually Spring through Fall with brightly hued flowers. He is not interested in rotation planting because plants out of bloom would be "boring". He spends roughly $2,000 every Spring. The majority of this is on this island with the remainder on potted and hanging plants throughout the complex. So getting him to

    My ideal would be large groupings of low growing conifers, with some colored foliage plants mixed in to add interest. But its not my money.

    Whatever is put in here it will be a mass planting.

    I do appreciate all the input.

  • WoodsTea 6a MO
    8 years ago

    'He is not interested in rotation planting because plants out of bloom would be "boring"'

    To me what's boring is the same flowers in bloom all summer. I love how perennial gardens change over the season as the different plants come into bloom. Plus there are lots of perennials that are interesting even when not in bloom. Amsonia hubrichtii, for instance, is amazing more for its fall foliage than for its spring blooms.

    At the same time I understand where he's coming from. My mother -- born in the 30s -- has a hard time appreciating the more natural look I'm going for in my gardens. She likes beds full of annuals like impatiens. Neat and tidy and colorful all summer. Salvia (a bright red variety) is just about the only perennial she likes very much. At some point I realized it was pointless trying to talk her into a different way of gardening.


  • Kirstin Zone 5a NW Chicago
    8 years ago

    In my experience, the more colorful the Huechera, the touchier it is. I love Huechera, but I'd recommend sticking to tried and true varieties like Green Spice, Purple Palace, etc. The redder ones are much more finicky, and tougher to overwinter. That said, what Huechera really hate is having wet feet, particularly in the winter. The location of this bed seems ideal, as excess water will drain away.


    I like the idea of hachonecloa as well, although it can get a bit thuggish over time.


    How about epimedium x black sea. I love Epimedium as a bedding plant. The pretty leaves on their slender stems move with the most delicate of breezes. And this variety offers the dark colors you ask about.


    Another suggestion is sedum. Such a variety of color and texture. And this site is ideal. Angelina with it's bright golden yellows. Or Dragons Blood for red. Or, for a taller sedum, Purple Emperor.

    I have to wonder about the amount of water being sprinkled on these plants. I suspect that, if the right perennials are chosen for that spot, they will need much less water. On average, established perennials need an inch of water a week during the growing season. It may be wise to put some empty tuna cans out this spring when the irrigation system is up and running, and just do a check at the amount of water this bed is receiving. All of the plants listed above would prefer the soil to be a little drier, and watering every day is probably too much.


    Good luck--you'll have to post a picture when done!



    alexis717_df thanked Kirstin Zone 5a NW Chicago
  • WoodsTea 6a MO
    8 years ago

    Campanula -- I don't think people are saying to remove or move rocks because they will be a problem for the plants. It's more a visual design thing -- either that the current arrangement looks cluttered or that this idea of chaining rocks together to simulate paths that no one walks on seems artificial.

    It's not really a gravel garden so much, since I think that aside from the large rocks it's ordinary garden soil with bark mulch, and heavily irrigated. To me it seems more like the owner is drawing a colorful picture with the rocks and the flowers -- a picture that he wants to stay the same all season.

  • alexis717_df
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Kristin, Campanula... Thank you. You do not have the wrong end of the stick. If this were my garden I would do it differently, but it,s not, so I must abide by the owner. My gardens sound more like WoodsTea's. I will be looking up many of your suggestions. Some that you,ve list I know are too tall, others I'm not familiar with so a researching i will go.

  • GardenHo_MI_Z5
    8 years ago

    Can the sign be moved at all?

    Something like this would be lovely with a few adjustments....rearrange and take out a few confers, adding a few heaths/heathers, after moving sign up front and off to the side.....

    low maintenance and beautiful

  • ubro
    8 years ago

    I think he has given you a tall order when he wants perennials that fit all his requirements of brightly coloured , continual blooming, low growing and low maintenance to boot.

    Conifers are a definite no then, as well as hosta, and grasses these are all low maintenance but do not flower.

    He doesn't want any plants out of bloom because they are "boring"?

    Continual bloom, on every plant in the bed for the whole summer leaves out most other perennials as they all have a peak blooming season and a season of rest. Sure they bloom for long periods but not entirely thru the spring summer and fall.

    And can I ask if that picture is taken when the garden is at it's peak? Because to my eye he already has large areas where there are no blooms just dirt.


  • User
    8 years ago

    So groundcover then...again, not really a problem.

    pratia, mazus reptans, campanula portenschlagiana, dianthus, phlos diviricata, pflos subulata, thymes (many and varied), erigeron karvinskianus, lysimachia nummularia. However, the thing about the rocks is the size - they are just too big and dispersed to see them as a rockery feature...and there is something very redolent of the 70s about it all (and if conifers and heathers are added, we would be absolutely in a time warp...but that could be amusing). As many have pointed out, there are NO perennials which remain in bloom for months and months on end - it just cannot be - they are following a cycle of life and reproduction. Smaller shrubs, at least hand on to foliage...and some, such as the gorgeous sorbus reducta, are worthy of a place in a garden for year round beauty but yes, there are some diverse elements there which are hard to reconcile.

    As for doing what the owner wants...well no...that isn't how gardening works. No amount of money or petulence will change the life-cycles of plants unless they are of the florus plasticus type.

    And I think it has also been mentioned, less is more. Having a great variety of plants, in an already cluttered scenario (I have my reluctant design hat on here) is just an ache for the eyes - better to have a couple of confident selections which are planted en-masse.

    alexis717_df thanked User
  • floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
    8 years ago

    In addition to what Campanula says, the rocks are used in two clashing ways in the bed. One lot is a random tumbled attempt at a rockery and meanwhile there's a regimented suburban border of large pebbles around the edge. It can't make its mind up whether it wants to be a manicured Victorian flowerbed or a 'naturalistic' alpine garden. It's ended up looking like a seaside crazy golf course. A plastic windmill would finish it off nicely.

    You say the owner is a friend. However, he wants you to help but will not take your suggestions. If he were paying you, then by all means put in the effort to please, but if he is asking for free labour and free advice, which he then rejects, I'd leave him to it. He has $1000 to spend so I'm sure he could get a company in to do what fits his vision. Or maybe he'll discover that nobody can and will come back to you with more realistic ideas.

  • alexis717_df
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Thank you all for my chuckles this morning. GardenHo - no the sign cannot be moved it is in a cement wall that extends roughly 12' on either side of the sign.

    The owner has come to realize that he cannot have the flowers he wants which is why I was (refer to original post) looking at colored foliage. He is all on board with colored foliage. It will be a mass planting but it will not be a variety of different plants, perhaps one or two different.

    As Ken pointed out earlier, we will fill in with annuals till the perennials fill up the space.

    So colored foliage suggestions? 16 +/- inches tall.

    Thank you

  • ubro
    8 years ago

    alexis717 it is an amusing thread. I am sure your friend is very nice and accommodating, you just hit a little bit of a nerve. As a professional grower it is sometimes exhausting to try and accommodate people who's wants far exceed the reality.

    I once had a bride upset because we could not provide a peony that was actually black, they don't exist. I wish I was as quick as Campanula, I would have responded " we do, and it is called florus plasticus" LOL.

  • laceyvail 6A, WV
    8 years ago

    "His ideal would be a perennial that is low growing, low maintenance, blooms continually Spring through Fall with brightly hued flowers. "

    Yes, well, there is no such animal. Try the florus plasticus.

  • alexis717_df
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Yes, I'm very much aware there is NO SUCH animal. Which is why the Original post was referencing plants with colored foliage and asking for your opinions.

    I appreciate all the suggestions on rearranging/removing the rocks/signs. To those who've made plants suggestions I thank you and will be doing my research on those.

  • User
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I did a very successful border consisting of silver and plum coloured foliage plants...so artemisia, dianthus, caryopteris, astelia, celmisias, festucas and blue lyme grass, interspersed with heucheras, dark-leaved geraniums and sedums. The foliage was long-lasting, often verging on evergreen and the glaucous leaves contrasted gorgeously with plummy deep red foliage (you could add carex testacea and uncinia rubra to the deeper coloured varieties. All looked good in sun and would also work with the rocks - texture and movement has as much virtue as colour but even so, colour is not lacking if you are judicious with your selections.

    alexis717_df thanked User
  • User
    8 years ago

    ..well, there are quite a few actually...but they may not be hardy in your area...

    ... you might like Geranium 'Azure Rush'.. which is a more compact version of 'Rozanne'... blooms early May to frosts...hardy to zone 5, sterile... this would be a first choice for me...

    ...Geranium 'Mavis Simpson'... May to frosts...silver foliage dies back to a crown in winter... hardy to zone 6, just I think.... spreads quite a bit during summer as it continues to bloom...

    ...you might like some sub-shrubs like Berberis 'Admiration'... deciduous but foliage colour from April to November when it turns bright red.... otherwise it's more the colour you see below... hardy in zone 6 and lower.. goes well with this next one...

    ...Thuja 'Golden Tuffet'... evergreen, maintenance free, hardy to zone 3... forms a bright rounded ball, slowly spreading... orange tipped in winter... would look nice with the blue Geranium... or those Heuchera's if you must have them...

    ...with a couple of those Geraniums, you needn't worry about those rocks...

    Geranium 'Mavis Simpson'

    Berberis 'Admiration'

    Thuja 'Golden Tuffet'

    ...hope you find something that pleases you and your client...

    alexis717_df thanked User