I don't get it? I don't want to turn this into an "everyone-is-just-out-for-themselves" discussion....

Unfortunately, that is exactly what the bottom line is. Too many people have become too self-absorbed. I'm with you. It drives me crazy.

Depending on how bad I want the "whatever", I follow up or go to next person with my request til I succeed. If you do nothing, you may be perceived as a pushover; if you follow up to completion, you may be perceived as ruthless, pushy. Pick your poison.

Maybe you don't want to have an "everyone-is-just-out-for-themselves" discussion, but doesn't that pretty well sum it up? People are completely self-absorbed and either inconsiderate or clueless about how their actions or inactions affect others.

I also have a big, big problem when people don't follow through with what they say they're going to do. Like you, if someone says they'll call or email on a certain day, I don't feel I'm out of line to expect them to do so. I cannot for the life of me fathom the coworkers who sit on email requests and don't even bother to acknowledge having read them. If there's something that someone at works asks of me and I don't readily have an answer, I still make it a point to respond to them and let them know that I'm working on it, and give them an estimated time of when I'll get back to them with my answer. I just consider that to be doing my job, yet too often I encounter people who make no response at all, and just leave me hanging. I don't understand how people who fail to communicate properly manage to keep their jobs.

I suppose the flakes might use "I'm just so busy" as an excuse, but I don't buy it. We all have the same number of hours in a day, and the truth of the matter is that they don't consider the effect they have on others to be important enough to do something about.

Sigh.

Adding a similar rant. We decided that I am taking ds to Italy this summer. Next door neighbor independently decided to take her kids to Spain. When they found out we were going to Italy they said they wanted to join us--this was fine. I made it clear that we would love to join forces but ds really wanted to go to Italy so we wouldn't be changing to Spain. We priced out tickets, we talked about dates and itinerary, we looked at airbnbs---all over the course of two months. I bought our airline tickets. And then she backed out. So sorry. She's booked her trip and she is just going to Spain. Well, okay, but now my kid is disappointed. And I am really not happy that my kid is disappointed in any way about this big exciting trip. He took the news okay and it will be fine. But seriously. Don't flake on things like this. If you aren't sure, don't say yes.

My answer to this kind of thing is to be as gracious as I can in the moment and never ever make plans that depend on the flakey person again. I figure they aren't going to change their ways if I confront them. They know what they are doing and they don't care enough to stop.

At work, always leave an electronic trail. Socially, what are you going to do?!

On your work colleague, he may have gotten overwhelmed. Give him a call. This happens to me, and when I forget, I never mind if the requester follows up with an email, and then a call after a day or two. I wouldn't get annoyed at him unless this happens often with this person.

On the carpool parent, that's just rude. I might have to change my schedule for a day or so. :-P

I have stopped expecting people to follow through on things that they say they will do. And that, unfortunately, is really sad. I was just so tired of the disappointment.

If I can't follow through on something I will call as soon as I know. I don't text with smiling faces as if "OOPS, my bad, oh well"

I would use the word inconsiderate instead of flaky. If you cant do what you said you were going to do at least have the decency to let me know. If I say to you I will call you tomorrow with the information, I will call you tomorrow, maybe not with the information because for some reason I couldnt get it, but I will let you know I am working on it and havent forgotten about you. You are only as good as your word as my mom used to say.

I fully understand your disappointment and aggravation of some people. I have written many times here how people have tried to use me over the years as one who was put on this earth to make their lives easier and cheaper. After all, I'm just a house wife with nothing better to do. Not!

My latest is a neighbor (as usual). This neighbor has complained repeatedly to me of her grown supposedly rich step son from another state who uses her smallish two car garage as storage for a huge old vintage Lincoln convertible. I agreed with her that it's crap that she's putting up with it.

Here's the kicker, I even saved the voice mail because it's so unbelievable. She actually asked if she could keep that big thing in my smallish two car garage I guess while she does interior remodeling construction. She knows my husband faithfully garages his car each night and there would be no room. She knows how I feel about step son using her as a storage unit. Does it stop her from asking the ridiculous? Nope!

I deal with this a lot on a Board on which I sit. People are so full of ideas and suggestions. Then they volunteer to do something but never do it. It's as if they just want to hear themselves talk. Part of the answer is to really think about what you say you are going to do and consider if you have the time and talent to do it. I, on the other hand, have the very bad habit of picking up the pieces and getting in over my head with obligations.

Cancelling the trip to Italy would have made me furious. What a let down for your son. That is beyond flaky. The carpool situation would have pissed me off, too. Totally thoughtless.

I am like you, if I say I'm doing something, you can bet your LIFE that I'm going to do it if I say I am. I really only depend on myself and my husband and don't bother with trying to make plans with others. I guess you'd say that I'm independent in that regard.

Back from my lunch hour and calmer now. Thanks for commiserating--I guess that's really what I wanted after all.

I was raised by a mother who never took responsibility for her own actions and so I've rebelled by being rigid about meeting mine. To a fault at times. Sometimes I think I'm too hard on others--I know I am. But when I really sit back and evaluate the situations, I conclude that there are just a lot of thoughtless people. I make note of this and check them off my list of people I can count on, and it just feels like the circle of people in my life who I can trust to follow through keeps getting smaller. Again I understand we all run into obstacles but I'd rather hear "Look, I'm sorry, I just can't make this commitment at this time" than a bunch of darn smiley emojis or no follow-up at all.

Yes, Crl, that trip cancellation is really too bad, not just because it impacts you but your child as well. I'm so sorry about that.

even having people rsvp to parties is difficult these days!!!

i like evite better than sending real invitations because at least it will send periodic reminders!! even then, if a fairly large party, there will be some who never answer- tho, the spam box is probably partly to blame for that...

I don't know the answer. In the e-world, I think sometimes it is fear of personal interaction. I have seen it so much at work where people were afraid to walk down the hall and personally ask for something but would sit for days waiting for an e-mail response. I'd finally 'motivate' them to get off their a$$ and go talk to the delinquent responder and get an answer.

I worked around a bunch of male supervisors and I guess I was always the overachieving female who never wanted to hand them an excuse to call me out for being late or tardy with any project I ever worked on or for being unresponsive. So I made it a point to always respond and honor commitments. And an honest answer is all I need to hear too.

I may sound like an old fuddy-duddy (even that term is old!), but I see a lack of community these days, along with the concomitant responsibility to something greater than self and immediate family. I'm not sure if it started with my generation's "if it feels good, do it", but it has certainly reached a crisis today with more ways to "connect" with others without that dreaded need to look someone else in the eye, or respond verbally to another's negative response.

You have two distinct examples, and they are different. In the case of the colleague, this was something you said in passing, it was a favor and not something that he was required to do. He simply forgot. I would have given him one day, then texted or emailed him reminding him about your question.

In the case of the friend, you assumed that she was having a hard time and wanted to help her out. In reality, she obviously had others not only to help car pool but felt more comfortable trading favors with. It certainly was unkind of her to not include you in that night's carpool. Sometimes people just don't think.

Side story: years ago when my daughters were young, we had play dates. Our houses have connected yards so it's was easy see who was out playing. One day my daughter had a friend over. A neighbor called and asked if her daughter could play with mine. I mentioned that my daughter had a friend over. To this day, I don't know why (well I sort of do) I didn't tell her to send her daughter over.

Things changed quickly on the block. I was rebuffed by this neighbor, my daughter was excluded from things etc. A year later she said to me, "This all came out of the time you didn't include my daughter when yours at so and so over." I can't tell you how happy we all were when they moved!

People can be so sensitive. Was it so wrong of me to not include the neighbor? Other than proximity, our girls really didn't get along, and honestly neither would have chosen each other as a friend. But, as neighbors it puts other things into play.

For goodness sake, was it a major faux pas to let my daughter have a play date with an invited friend without including the neighbor's child?

In a perfect world others would not ask of you what they would not want asked of themselves. People who say they are going to do something actually do it. Why is that so hard? It's so simple.

For goodness sake, was it a major faux pas to let my daughter have a play date with an invited friend without including the neighbor's child?

It was none of the neighbor woman's business at all.

That's not like you said you'd do something and didn't follow through, though. You declined to give an invitation, and an invitation is something that is basically a gift, IMO. Entirely up to you as to whether or not you wish to extend it.

That play date story reminds me of our situation. The flaky next door neighbor in my story above has the adjacent driveway to us. The family is nice and the mom is generally very sweet to my kids. All of our kids use the shared driveway as a play area--basketball hoop, net for baseball, scooters, etc. It can be awkward to have play dates under the circumstances. But I have made very clear to my kids that while they can use the driveway space anytime by mutual agreement, that does not mean they can horn in on play dates. They are not to hint to be invited in, etc. And I have told my neighbor that she should not feel obligated to include my kids in her social events and that if they are hinting to please let me know. People should get to have control over their own social lives. I think you were well within normal social behavior not to invite the neighbor child over, ellen.

I hosted a shower this past weekend. The invitation was rsvp regrets only with my email. I got two regrets right away. The day of the shower, after everyone left, the guest of honor asked if everyone had come. I told her about the two regrets and showed her the list. Another person didn't come, didn't rsvp, and never contacted the honoree either......so rude! When my son got married a few years ago, family members on both sides had us calling and hounding them at the last minute for an answer if they were coming or not. They didn't and we ended up reimbursing the bride's parents for ther dinners. I was mortified.....and livid..... and haven't really talked to them since.

My retired bff stopped volunteering because she was getting sick and tired of showing up for an event on time to set up etc...and the other volunteers would stroll in 45 min later. She did voter registration at colleges and she'd be hauling tables and the other paraphernalia from her car by herself. She also helped at shot clinics for the local shelter and she'd be there ready to go on time and take the brunt from people waiting in line when the vet and other staff showed up late.

I have shifted the nature of my volunteering so that I am not relying on other volunteers because I have also found other volunteers unreliable.

ellen, I agree that one has a right to plan a play date without inviting the neighbor's child. In this case, I'm wondering if the little girl pleaded with her mom to go play with the others, and her mom agreed to ask rather than just send her out. The mother's rather childish response is uncalled for, but I might have erred on the side of inclusion, and spared a child the feeling of rejection.

I might add that my children grew up before "play dates" and all the children in the neighborhood, girls and boys, all ages, played together without much adult intervention. They learned they had to get along. I know the current social more is for the parents to arrange meetings.

crl, I hear ya about unreliable volunteers. I'm retired and do a lot of volunteering. It keeps me busy and engaged and I enjoy being able to give and contribute without thinking of monetary reward. But with a real job, there are consequences for not fulfilling a task or meeting your commitments. With volunteers, they can just not show up, walk away, do a lousy job. No consequences.

Question? is Crl the same person as Cyn?

No

I see it as a sign of the 'times', not enough of it! Everyone wants to do what *they* want to do, go where *they* want to go, don't want to be bothered, put themselves 'out', basically, selfishness. I've raised my kids to NOT think this way, and so far from what I see, have been successful for the most part.

Violetwest, i've always said it's humans, being.

"My retired bff stopped volunteering because she was getting sick and tired of showing up for an event on time to set up etc...and the other volunteers would stroll in 45 min later."

Timely topic-I accepted a volunteer commitment this year, to be a mentor for at risk teenage girls via a monthly session at a local high school. There are 2 other mentors, although one was supposed to only be with us a couple of months. She is a working professional whose schedule is somewhat unpredictable but hey, she isn't really part of the main 'team' so no problem. The third volunteer is a retired attorney. The sessions are strictly timed; we have exactly 45 minutes starting at noon and we bring lunch (alternating months for each of the 2 active volunteers), the girls eat while we do a life skills presentation and then the bell rings and the girls go to their next class.

So....each and every month I've been the one to organize the theme, prepare the materials, contact the others, etc. Until this month, when I had a very unexpected accidental death in my immediate family last Sunday. Luckily the retired attorney had for the first time arranged the program to bring in a speaker this session, which was being held yesterday. I emailed to let both fellow volunteers on Sunday to let them know I couldn't be there with them or do the agenda and they assured me everything was fine.

I"m sure we all know where this story is going: yesterday at 12:05 my cell phone rings and it's the teacher asking what is happening, because nobody has showed up and nobody has called her to say that we aren't doing a session. Keep in mind there are 24 teenage girls sitting in a classroom, expecting not only a session on life skills but their lunch! I quickly call the retired attorney volunteer who is supposed to be there, to find out that the deli order got mixed up, but that she is 'just leaving' the store and the volunteer speaker is 'at the school but she can't find the front door'. Oh and she didn't have a phone number so could I call the school and let them know? OMG.

I'll confess that after I called the school I haven't touched base with my fellow volunteer because I'm so upset. When you say you will do something, in my book YOU DO IT. The only reason to cancel or delay is if something truly drastic happens--like a parent dying of head trauma from a fall which was why I had to cancel. To hear her calmly say she was on the way when I knew there isn't a store close enough to have avoided rushing the girls through lunch if it even arrived in time at all...just makes me so mad.

Anyway, yes people are flaky and it is another of my hot buttons. I remember in The Guernsey Literary Society et al book reading a line that I may want inscribed on my tombstone: If she says she will, she will and if she says she won't, she won't. If I say I will, you bet unless it's life or death-I will. Wish other people would follow that mantra!

It is hard when you are a volunteer to not be able to count on your co workers.

In some cases, one person emerges as the leader, the one who organizes, delegates and follows through. Other times it can be a team effort with each being equally responsible.

Running, in your case it looks like this team needs a leader and that leader is you.

My condolences for your loss.

Running, ugh. That's exactly the kind of situation I ran into, though yours is more egregious. And when you are all volunteers you have no leverage over the other people so there just isn't a way to lead. Either you do it all to make sure it gets done, or you accept that things will not get done. And that's why I changed my role to something where I'm not coordinating with or counting on other volunteers.

runninginplace (((hugs))). Sorry about the loss of your parent and for the behaviour of your "flaky" fellow volunteers.

The teenage girls probably missed you.

Running, I am so sorry for your loss.

On the one hand, people are just flaky and inconsiderate and reliability means nothing to them. But on the other hand, one never knows what private hells some people are going through which causes them to forget, or have to change plans at the last minute. I've run into a little of both.

I have a sister that can be very flaky, and I've learned over the years not to count on her doing anything that she has said that she'll do.

The worst was when my daughter graduated from college. She had a limited number of tickets, but wanted to invite her aunt and cousin. She attended college out of state in California, but that is where my sister lives, just in a different city.

So, my sister accepted the invitation and we made arrangements to rent a condo for the weekend for my family, my sister and her daughter and my mother and her boyfriend.

You can probably imagine what happened. I think that it was the day before that my sister informed us that she wouldn't be coming, she was going to some new agey retreat or something instead...but she sent flowers, as if that made up for it!

My daughter was pretty upset. She had invited her aunt because as an educator herself she had always been very encouraging to my daughter. Of course it was too late to invite anyone else.

And of course she didn't pay for her share of the condo.

Runningplace, I'm sorry for your loss, too. How disappointing that the other slacked to the point that you had to be called.

As much as I relate to all of these stories, Pinkmountain, yours is a good reminder that we never really know what someone else is going through that may influence their ability to meet commitments. This doesn't excuse those perpetual offenders or the blatantly inconsiderate (like Terriks' sister) but sometimes people do warrant a break.

Running, I'm so sorry for your loss.

I'm the one who always shows up and on time. If I say I'll do it, I will. Even if I say I can't do it, I usually do it anyway. I understand that things come up, plans go awry. All I ask is a phone call/text/email to let me know. I'm resilient and I understand that s*** happens.

I have a friend who is brilliant and gifted in many ways. But she doesn't understand planning ahead or how to be punctual. I can't deal with chronic tardiness. At all. It means I won't make any arrangements with her that depend on her being on time. I'm allergic to her lack of punctuality.

Linelle, I have a friend who is never ready on time. How she sometimes gets around it is texting us at the last minute, asking for some extra time. Then, the meeting time becomes closer to what she wanted in the first place.

She is worth keeping as friend, but it is very annoying!

I am always early. People have made fun of me because of this! Oh, Ellen, you're always early."

Ellen, I'm always early. My parents were that way. Not sure if it's nature or nuture. Just the thought of being late, of running to catch up, makes me anxious. It's my definition of losing control.

My tardy friend has very high functioning Asperger's. She does the same thing, texting for extra time. At least that's better than when she's late by half an hour and then lets us know. I like her and understand that she's challenged in this regard. However, it's something I cannot compromise on. We now start meetings whether she's there or not. I don't offer her rides anymore.

Joaniepoanie - your comment about the person who didn't RSVP regrets about not being able to attend - are you SURE she got the email? NEVER send regrets only invites .... I've had spam filter diversions, accidental deletions, and just plain email inattention.) No sympathy on that one.

Running, I too am sorry for your loss, that's how I lost a parent too, it's very tragic.

This is such a timely post and I'm so glad to see that I'm not alone when it comes to keeping commitments. Keeping your word or honoring commitments is very black and white for me and even though I don't agree, sometimes people say my expectations are too high. Since when is it too much to expect that someone be considerate of someone else? Like many things that are changing in this world, I think it's a way of thinking that is slowly slipping away.

I travel to different offices for work, they are expecting to see me on certain days and communicating with them if I can't make it is key. Today I was asked to reschedule my sites so I could visit three different sites that needed an emergency visit. These clinics require a weekly visit and for some unknown reason the person responsible had flaked and not gone in weeks. She also had not let anyone know that she missed going to them either. The same thing happened a few weeks before, same sites, different co-worker. By the time management was advised, she hadn't been to them in weeks either. And this behavior seems to happen on all levels of the professional scale. I can't tell you how many times I've been to a clinic that was expecting lunch to be brought in by a drug rep and they completely flaked on their clients too, no calls, no apologies, just a hungry staff scrambling to find a quick bite before patients come in. I really don't understand how it's even remotely ok.

When it comes to my personal life, outside of my immediate family, I don't expect anyone to honor their word. That way there's no disappointment if they don't and I'm pleasantly surprised when they do. Fortunately for me, everyone in my immediate family is like minded about this issue too.

Runninginplace, my mom died a year ago from head trauma due to a fall, so I feel your pain. I am so sorry for your loss. This past year, I must confess, I have sometimes not shown up on time because of all the grief and family responsibilities I am dealing with this year. My dad has gone completely to pieces mentally. I'm dealing with him, my brother is not fulfilling his estate responsibilities and I've been dealing with lawyers, and trying to take care of all my stuff from a recent move in three different storage places, and then mom's things, and my job, and my volunteer commitments. I don't know whether I'm coming or going sometimes. I value showing up and honoring commitments because I am a person who gives programs and works with volunteers so I know how important showing up is. But I have gotten mixed up a few times and gotten lost and also been late because I got the time mixed up or the date or some crisis dad was having popped up at the last minute. Not on purpose. I'd say I'm at about 80%, which is a B grade. I am having to scale back doing things, which is kinda depressing actually. When you are a "doer" and the person who does volunteer and can be counted on, there is the possibility that more and more folks load things on you until you just break down. That's kinda why I am so "flaky."

I pinkmountain - Your story is something that I have tried to teach me kids. If someone who is normally all there "disappoints" you by your definition, cut them some slack. Something may have happened in their life, something out of the ordinary of which you may not be aware so be concerned enough to ask instead of thinking badly of them.

"Granted he's doing me a favor but if he said he would call--shouldn't he call? Or email me if he had to cancel? Or something? I haven't heard anything from him."

On this one, if you wanted the answer, you should have contacted him again.

"It's OK with me, as I can drive my own child to/from, but wouldn't it have been polite for her to offer to include my child on her new plans? And what about our previous schedule--is it still in tact? (I have to admit, the smiley emojis in her message were especially annoying.)"

no, it's not ok. You are PO'd. She is under no obligation to include your kid. If you want to join in, ask to be included.

You say your mom didn't take responsibility for her own actions. Sounds to me like you aren't taking actions to own the responsibility for. Unfortunately, the result of that is that you get to be a victim. All of us are unable to control other's actions. Because you can only control your own, step up and act.

jmc, I could NOT disagree with you more!! Your response is a perfect example as to why the "ART" of people showing simple consideration of others is flying out the door. (And yes, reading your comment has me fired up! LOL). Regardless of the circumstance, if someone says they will call, they should call PERIOD. If they have no intentions of calling then why bother saying it in the first place?

And when someone shows a kind jester and reaches out to help someone it's only common decency to return the jester in kind. I know for me as well as many others reading this it would be a natural response!!!

This has nothing to do with being a victim either. It has to do with people making a commitment and honoring it and treating people in the same manner you would want to be treated.

I thought the "victim" comment was unnecessary and unkind. Many of us find it frustrating when others aren't true to their word, but that doesn't mean we are wallowing in self pity. It isn't wrong to have expectations of others. I'm pretty sure we ALL do, to one extent or another.

Oh wow, running, I am so sorry to hear. I am also sorry to hear so many of you lost parents in a similar way.

I agree, RSVP's are the worst! Even with our wedding 10 years ago I was tracking people down to the point where I had to say there would be no place/dinner for them! But yes, people's emails can get lost in spam filters, etc. Sometimes Evite goes to spam, too. I try to remind family to not use my work email because we can be really bad at blocking and vice versa from .edu emails.