If you search past posts on this forum (via google) you can find lots of info about sous vide. There are several enthusiastic cooks who post lovely photos of their results.. Haven't tried it myself yet.

Granny didn't have one for good reason. They are very popular on eGullet. But I can always tell the meats that are cooked Sous Vide before reading the post. The texture looks weird. Does not appeal to me.

Sometimes the texture is weird. Sometimes not. Red meat always looks different sous vide because it really is a different way of cooking. Usually, the cooking environment is very hot for meat, and the outside gets very done so that the inside can get done at all.

The current style is for soft, medium-rare meats, with the least amount of darker, firmer outside ring as possible. Sous vide is the ultimate version of that because instead of cooking in high heat from the outside in, it stays a long time at a constant low temperature so that the whole thing gets heated through just to the temperature you want the middle. In other words, it's all middle. After it's completely cooked, it will usually be given a flash sear, sometimes with a torch rather than a hot pan, just to caramelize the outside for that flavor and brown appearance of a good sear.

I have two of those circulators from the Kickstarter campaign that brought them to market. They're sufficient to work in a larger pan than the original machines with dedicated water wells have. People have been very inventive in using them as spare ovens, with things like baking or cooking grains in canning jars and all kinds of other clever notions. The "water oven" concept. The important thing about the water circulators is that they hold the temperature within one degree, unlike even the finest oven's air.

"Sous vide" means "under vacuum". It was invented to be a kind of VCR for cooking--that is, a time shifter. That's what I use mine for. In catering (what it was invented for, and which is the same kind of business as feeding my whole family), one is limited by what one can produce in mass at one time. OTOH, by the time it's portioned out, it's often past optimum. But prepping and portioning into vacuum sealed bags ahead of time, one can freeze or chill them until needed, and then bring them all to heat together, and plate quickly since they're portioned. It's especially useful with things that you meant to marinate anyway. Instead of being in a bag and transferred to a pan, they're in a bag and heated in it.

Since you're using the final temperature as your environment, things don't get overcooked. If you leave something for hours and hours longer than recommended, it can start breaking down, but if you're not sure how long the festivities will run before the meal is served, it can wait without harm for an hour or two at temperature. Since it's all done up ahead of time, you don't have to pay any attention to it. The temperatures one uses for sous vide, being the end temperatures, are generally well under 200° F. In fact, most are in the traditional slow cooker range (140-165° F), since this is the ultimate slow cooking method.

There are limits, however. I mentioned the browning. Ann mentioned texture. I had some short ribs I thought might be nice to do sous vide, but when I looked it up on the Modernist Cuisine website, I didn't like the description. It's like they were "fixing" the texture of short ribs. I wanted them normal, so braised them the normal way in cast iron braiser in the oven. They were delicious. :)

BTW, you can also do things like pasteurize eggs and make yoghurt.

Fascinating! Thanks for the culinary lesson. I didn't know much about it.

DH is a tool junkie who has a full shop so now he buys kitchen gadgets. He got me a Sous Vide Supreme. He says it makes the best chicken breasts he's ever had.

I've tried steak and lamb chops and they were ok...different texture. We finished them off with a torch and under the broiler. Both were ok.

I tend to overcook fish and boneless chicken breast so the sous vide is great for that. So far my favorite is salmon. We get frozen skinless salmon fillets at Trader Joe's, toss them in the sous vide (in original vacuum sealed package), then slather on some mayo and/or mustard, capers,dill...whatever, sprinkle on a little panko and broil for a minute or so. DH doesn't like bare fish, lol.

Now we're all into playing with the electric pressure cooker he got me for Christmas. ...

For me cooking skill is all about temperature control, not so much about taste.

For the longest time, there has never been a good way to apply predictable temperature to cook food, especially meats. Most cooking techniques end up having to cook part of the food to 212F in order to overcome the un-changeable physics of thermal conductivity. Not only that, for food safety, we all need to overcook to make sure that food is safe. This is because you can't really trust if all parts of the food is cooked safe.

Forget about the fancy name "sous vide". It is a very simple concept. It is a method (tool, appliance) which guarantees cooking temperature to within one degree accuracy. It is just a smart thermostat.

Actually sous vide has been in use for many years, except until recently sous vide appliance costed over $2,000. Today, you can get one for less than $100. As a result, sous vide is getting very popular in home kitchens.

A smart thermostat indeed. Each time you cook, the sous vide device can learn what kind of cooking vessel you are using, the temperature of you food, the nature of your heat source, the room temperature of your kitchen and cook you food to within one degree accuracy, inside and outside, for as long as you want.

dcarch

Sous vide roasted chicken last night

That doesn't look like it has a weird texture!

Rob, it is the texture of the cut or carved meat where you see the difference in texture. Not the surface that has either been seared after the fact or painted with something to make it look roasted. You can really see the difference in a rare steak, prime rib, rack of lamb, etc...

"For me cooking skill is all about temperature control, not so much about taste."

Dcarch, You didn't really mean to say this did you?

I can't believe that anyone that cares about cooking, would not care what the finished product tastes like. That to me is the what is most important .

Ann_t, I actually meant that. But read my words carefully.

I said that the most critical (and difficult part about cooking skill) is the application of cooking temperature, not in the skill of creating proper taste ( flavor).

If you can measure and if you can follow a recipes correctly and you will end up with the right flavor. One table spoon of this, an oz of that, ---------.

But it is so difficult to be accurate in how long and how hot to cook food. Do you flip you steak on the hot skillet once? twice? Low and slow? Hot and fast? rest? no rest? foil? no foil? ------ Temperature impacts texture, and most of the time temperature is not reversible if cooked incorrectly. A well done overcooked steak has the same flavor as one that is perfectly cooked.

dcarch

I don't find it particularly hard to get the temperatures of foods I'm familiar with right in ordinary kitchen equipment I'm familiar with, so I read your initial statement the way Ann did. I agree that getting the correct degree of doneness could be most important. Almost everyone I've met who said he doesn't like eggplant has only experienced it way undercooked! And most people who don't like summer squash have only had it way overcooked. Proteins are easier to deal with on that temperature/taste continuum. If it's a fail, there's always ketchup. ;D The thing about vegetables, however, is that a lot of them also need some amount of evaporation, which you don't get sous vide.

Ice cream melted tastes exactly the same as frozen ice cream.

How do I get crispy skin on my roasted chicken?

My turkey is so overcooked and dry, but it is still bloody inside---

I don't like my stir fry!!

My French fries are soggy!

My apple pie bottom dough is not cooked ! but the top is charcoal

dcarch

Huh? Are you quoting other exclamations from other people?

Melted ice cream doesn't taste like frozen ice cream (the liquid form overemphasizes the sweet, for instance), and the other things are also about cooking temperatures, but those are failure of technique, usually, rather than failure of the cooking equipment doing what it's supposed to do.

Please explain what you're trying to say?

Elery's middle son is playing with a borrowed sous vide cooker and having a good time experimenting. He said that his favorite experiment so far was eggs, not a meat product, go figure, and he said chicken was horrible but fish was pretty good.

Like some others, however, I found the texture of pork chops and beef to be odd and mushy, I've only had sous vide food in restaurants, so I haven't tried fish or chicken.

I've have never had trouble roasting a turkey or baking a pie or making French fries.

I will admit that melted ice cream tastes just like frozen ice cream, hence the ice cream shake or malt. My teeth are sensitive to cold, so I actually melt my ice cream a little on purpose (on the rare occasions I eat it).

Anyway, I don't think sous vide is a godsend and if my results are going to be similar to those items I've eaten in restaurant, then I wouldn't waste my $100. However, if I were cooking for a group of people and wanted to serve them all poached eggs for breakfast or something similar, I think it might be handy. Not steak, because I'd still have to sear them all and with my short attention span they'd all be overcooked before I could get them to the table!

So, because I need some other gadget that I'd probably never use about like I need a hole in my head, I'll probably pass on the sous vide. I don't have enough space to store the things I already have! Heck, I only have a grill because Elery uses it. Frankly, he hasn't used the grill in months either, I think that got used once since we've moved to this house. Don't ask about the rotisserie, the turkey fryer, the 3-well crock pot, the cake ball maker, the blender.....well, you get the idea. I use those items occasionally, but they mostly take up space.

Annie

"A well done overcooked steak has the same flavor as one that is perfectly cooked."

With all due respect dcarch, and I'm not one to argue on the internet, especially with a fellow GWCFer....but, was that a typo or were you kidding?

...or maybe just stirring the pot? ;)

I guess to each his own, but I'll take mine pan seared, medium rare :)

I'll take your steak Cookncarpenter over a sous vide steak any day.

As far as I am concerned nothing is more important than taste. And an overcooked steak, doesn't taste the same as a rare or medium rare steak. And texture also contributes to the overall enjoyment. And personal preference is also important. So if you like your steak medium or well done, than a rare or medium rare isn't going to taste the same or as good as one cooked to your liking.

Of course you have to know what you are doing and be concerned about temperature and time, whether grilling, frying , roasting meat, braising, stewing , etc, to end up with the desired doneness. With a little experience, it is NOT that difficult to figure out. And all of these methods also contribute to flavour. And in the end when you are putting the meal on the table, it is the taste that is the most important.

plllog
“------but those are failure of
technique, usually, rather than failure of the cooking equipment doing what
it's supposed to do.

Please explain what you're trying
to say? ‘’

Exactly what I said, “cooking
skill (technique) is all about temperature control —“

Annie, “---Anyway, I don't think sous vide is a
godsend –“

Very true. Sous vide is just another cooking
tool. It will not make you an instant gourmet chef.

cookncarpenter : "A
well done overcooked steak has the same flavor as one that is perfectly
cooked."

With all due respect dcarch, and I'm not one to
argue on the internet, especially with a fellow GWCFer....but, was that a typo
or were you kidding?

...or maybe just stirring the pot? ;)”

But if you read my words carefully, you may just agree with me. For
instance, with a typically roast, you
have the exterior grey area well done, then the medium, then the medium rare, then
the rare (sometimes raw) center. All these areas taste the same beefy taste. Taste
and texture are two different qualities of food. In combination the combined sensation
gives you the final eating experience. In general, temperature does not impact flavor
much. But temperature has incredible impact on texture. It changes everything. With
taste, if you forget to add bay leaves in a recipe, the food will taste all
right, but if you did not cook the food at the right temperature (your steak
for instance), it’s bad.

Anne_t: “--- And personal preference is also important. So if you like
your steak medium or well done, than a rare or medium rare isn't going to taste
the same or as good as one cooked to your liking.---“

Exactly! Great advertisement for sous vide. Sous vide absolutely guarantees
the exact doneness you specify, regardless of how big, thin, thick, cold, hot,
frozen, thick on one end, thin on the other, ----- the piece of expensive meat
is, you will get absolute desired doneness, this time, next time, every time! That’s why so many high
end restaurants use sous vide. That’s why sous vide is getting very popular.

dcarch

Sous vide frozen strip steak on pineapple and beets

I am another one who can manage perfectly well without the sous vide and you can see a strange texture in the photos of many items, especially the beef.

Hmmm, I might actually grow to like chicken breast if it didn't have to be so overcooked in order to make certain the interior was done enough.

I haven't had problems doing steak or fish in a skillet, though, so I think I'll pass.

Besides, I don't want hot food touching plastic for that long.

Islay Corbel “I am another one who can manage perfectly well
without the sous vide and you can see a strange texture in the photos of many
items, especially the beef.”

There are many very competent cooks in this forum. I am not
surprised that you and many others have no problems with cooking skills.

About strange texture, first let’s agree that meat texture
changes are primarily based on two factors, namely temperature and time. We can
also understand that meat is not intelligent, it is not capable of knowing the
source of heat, 150F will have the same effect on meat whether the heat is from
charcoal, electric or hot water. We can also agree that meat shrinks as cooking
temperature rises, and for most meats and recipes, cooking meat at 212F
overcooks the meat.

Yes, you may see that the beef texture look strange.

With perfect total control of cooking temperature, no part
of the beef was cooked above 129F or below 129F. As a result, there was 5% less shrinkage (juicier, more beef to eat).
With longer cooking time with no possibility of overcooking, I don’t have a
need to spend money to buy expensive cuts of meat. I can turn London Broil to
fork tender. Personally, I don’t believe in eating a lot of fat. You see mostly
very lean meat from my kitchen.

artemis_ma, “Hmmm, I might actually grow
to like chicken breast if it didn't have to be so overcooked in order to make
certain the interior was done enough.-----“

I never tell my guests if the food is sous vide cooked. Unfortunately,
as usual, many of them will exclaim, “OMG, I
never had chicken so incredibly tender and juicy, you have to give me your recipe!”.

And I will end up having to spend a lot of time explaining
the concept of sous vide cooking and show them my sous vide setup.

dcarch

Okay. Thanks, Dcarch, for putting up with my foggyheadedness. I do finally understand what you meant. And you're right.

Re chicken: Sous vide cooking is not fool proof. Many restaurants think they can substitute it for hiring knowledgeable and experienced cooks, like the automated burger cooker at fast food where they put the frozen patties in, push the start button, and put them on the bun at the other end, making no judgments at all about the doneness.

Poultry, when cooked too long sous vide will not be overcooked by the traditional definition--it won't be dry, tough and gummy. Rather, it'll be the right temperature, but mushy and kind of wet from the tissues breaking down. The same will happen to beef if you leave it long enough, but that might be days. A chicken breast can get overcooked sous vide in hours. You can't just dump all your chicken in the water at the beginning of the day and serve it all evening and expect it to be good.

OTOH, you have an hour or two leeway between done and gone nasty, rather than 5-10 minutes. The very first thing I made sous vide was turkey breast roulades. Then I made them for Seder. They were perfect. Delicious and not overcooked, and didn't need the kind of attention in the middle of the service that a whole roasted turkey (which is also time flexible) does.

There is a texture issue with red meat. I don't like the soft red center. At all. Ever. I won't eat it. Sous vide is all soft red center. You can cook it to a well done temperature, but you won't get the texture change that comes with broiling, and you won't get tooth. For the pregnant woman who desperately wants a bloody steak but who has been told she can only have well done, sous vide is perfect, because it's as cooked as she needs, without the texture change.

Re plastic, I only use the bags that are specifically meant for sous vide. They're theright kind of plastic. Not all vacuum bags are designed for heat. The heat isn't very high, either (under 200° F), and probably not enough to cause any issues with freezer bags. Unless you live mostly outside of the general food economy, there is so much plastic touching our food at various times that it's not worth it to me getting fussed about a little more. If it gives you the eew-icky feeling, by all means, skip it.

As Dcarch said, sous vide is just a tool. It's a great tool. An Anova immersion circulator is a lot easier to store than a Nesco roaster, if you already have a roaster pan...or bucket...and can fulfill much the same use, though in a different way.

Gorgeous steak 'cookcarpenter'. Gorgeous plating dcarch.(!!) I see both sides. And no argument from me.

It is not another kitchen gadget. Not at all in my home. I think i bought mine just a year ago?. The Inova for valentines day or was it Fathers day, (yikes i'm tired).

We are basic rustic style cooks. Chopping by hand is therapy, fresh ingredients are most important. DH and i both agree on very hot food to the table. Often not pretty on the plating at all. warm pre-heated plates. Careful dance and rather fun getting the greens, the garlic chips, the roasted roots, the sides, etc...on the table together.

We set a nice table, (cloth napkins, light a candle)...but not ironed linens, lol.

We don't even have a toaster or a toaster oven. And just a 1/2 pint micro wave that is in our pantry used once a month for maybe a sweet potato for the pups. Or a re-heat of a cup of coffee. No bread machine or even a pressure cooker.

We do not like fussy food or fussy plating. Or overly touchy food like dcarch tends to do, though often beautiful. The disjointed wordiness gets lost and misunderstood i think. (just don't like the time it takes to decorate a plate that is not hot food). Or maybe it is hot but it looks room temp and the meat is often weird looking. Yet the pic above looks amazingly tasty even though i don't care for pineapple at all. That version i would savor and devour no problem.

On point, i like, and dare say love my sous vid. I like my veg. I can get those two pork chop in the 'vid'...perfect temp everytime, Just the way we like it. No fuss or worry. Concentrate on my veggies and sides. I have so much casual time to prep a meal when two thick pork chops are in the 'vid'. I use my small tall pasta pot. On the counter near the sink where i have an outlet. Stovetop and oven, prep area is the other side...so it is out of the way.

For me, it gives an open window of an hour or two. I like to prep ahead all ingredients,...the chopping, the garnish, ...various prep bowls. Kitchen cleaned, dishwasher 1/2 full. Run it after the meal.

It has improved a couple meals we like by 100%. Especially pork. And cheaper cuts of beef that can usually be a chore to get tender. Oh i sure do still braise and slow roast. Just minor experimenting with it. And don't mess with my seared shell steaks!. Perfect the way i have been doing...non sous-vid.

A Vietnamese Pho dish we love is prep heavy...keep trying to cut some steps and still gets complicated with timing. I use flank or skirt steak. Marinated, seasoned. Perfect and waiting sous vid. Always hit or miss before. Such a minor addition to the dish as it is broth/veg heavy. It was a minor ingredient that took too much time. It now sits out of the way and waiting and perfectly cooked and tender but still has a tooth. Not at all chewy leather-ettes.

It isn't for everyone, yet anyone that scratch cooks should have one. It isn't a one-trick-pony like a waffle maker or cake pop cooker. It is a helping hand, a tool, and easily as important as my well seasoned favorite cast iron...haha, that's a stretch. Just not an unnecessary cooking 'toy'.

Having pork chops tonight...

Oh, and I don't have a smart-phone either, so there goes that remote cooking thing, LOL.

I've not really liked anything I've had cooked in the sous vide, although I keep trying when I see it on a menu. But, since I've had only mushy meat so far, I wouldn't buy something that cooks things to a texture I dislike. I'd have to actually like something that came out of the sous vide before buying one. So, if items are overcooked in restaurant sous vide I'll probably never have any food I enjoy cooked in one. I'd have to go visit dcarch for dinner before I bought one. (grin)

I tried to convince my stepson that he should make us all dinner in his, but he says it's more a toy than a tool, so there's a conflicting opinion. At some point, I'm sure, I'll have dinner there and he'll use the sous vide and then I'll try again. So far, I just haven't liked the two meals I've had...

Annie

As dcarch mentioned, temperature is temperature, and texture depends on it and on time. If it's over or under done, you probably won't like it (regardless of the cooking method).

The temperature of the food can not go over 100 degress celsius as long as it still has water in it. So if you put it in the oven at 500 degrees, the exterior will boil and lose water quickly. After the water is gone it starts to brown and can get over 100 degrees very fast. The interior is another story. Heat travels much slower and you will get different degrees of doneness throughout the meat (by the time the middle is rare, the outer layer is at least medium). Sous vide allows you to have the exact temperature everywhere. At the end you can brown in a pan or in the oven.

Rare is rare and well done is well done regardless if you use a pan, oven or sous vide. But because rare is hard to get uniformly in the pan or oven (raw is not rare, it's just raw) - just the way heat transfer works - we think the texture is weird :)

One of the joys of pan-frying a steak or a fillet of fish is that you can have your dinner ready really soon, getting home from work on a really exhausting Friday, without waiting around for a sous vide thing to get going.

Typically, with a steak or a fish fillet, I'll be working on it while working on putting together a nice salad, or maybe cooked spinach -- both of which activities can occur while the steak is frying, and then resting.

(Now, if I have got company, the steaks will likely be on the grill, and there will be more elaborate sides -- it will also be a weekend -- and I can see a bit more carefulness there, because grilling heat varies so much from event to event.)

dcarch7 d c f l a s h 7 @ y a h o o . c o m

I never tell my guests if the food is sous vide cooked. Unfortunately, as usual, many of them will exclaim, “OMG, I never had chicken so incredibly tender and juicy, you have to give me your recipe!”.

Actually, when we get together, we cook together, or if not - at least we arrive before the hot parts of the meal are finished cooking, so yes, I'd know if my host or hostess had cooked sous vide. It hasn't happened yet.

I would like to try sous vide not-overcooked chicken breast. I might like it. I am not about to pay for it in a restaurant, since there are so many more appetizing ideas on the menu in those places. Whether or not I've gotten sous vide salmon at a restaurant -- I have no idea. (I don't order beef out, either, unless I am at farm-to-table, and then, maybe.)

Jo, I agree with everything you said.

artemis_ma, "One of the joys of pan-frying a steak or a fillet of fish is that you can have your dinner ready really soon, getting home from work on a really exhausting Friday, without waiting around for a sous vide thing to get going.

Actually one of the great features with sous vide cooking is flexibility of timing.

Just a quick run down of what has happened in the past parties. Before the party, I would e. mail pictures of steak to the guests and ask each of them to pick a color of the beef they prefer, from blue (rare) to grey (well done). There is an easy way to do sous vide all the steaks to different degree of doneness exactly using only one cooker. Because the temperature is controlled and overcooking is never a problem and timing is not a big deal, and sous vide does not require "resting", it matters not when the guests arrive. Just have the grill going, grill and serve when ever they arrive.

dcarch

Like i mentioned, it is not for everyone. Starting sous vid is not complicated coming home from work. No waiting. It does its job and leaves time for the rest of the meal. Nothing i've made has been 'mushy'. I've just made a few dishes much better and tender. Controlled temp. Still a great sear on my cast iron.