My baby sister (bs) has the thermador fridge and loves it. My middle sister (ms) has the SZ and loves hers. I don't think you could go wrong with either.

I have the Bosch oven and love it. Both sisters have the Thermadors and like theirs.

Hate my KA dishwasher and am doing a Miele in my new build. My bs has the Miele and loves it. My ms has the thermador and hates it.

Ms also has the thermador gas cooktop and is not in love with that either. bs uses her refurbished chambers and I right now have electric and in my new build am switching to an induction cooktop.

Note that all drawer microwaves are made by sharp and you're paying more for the branded names for the label or the looks.

No one will walk into your kitchen and notice that all the brands are not the same. They all look close enough that they all work fine together. Buy function over looks because each brand has their "stars" and their "duds".

In order to see which is best, I would ask some questions.

How important is cooking and what types of things do you cook. What type of cookware do you have? What type of cooking appliances do you have now?

How do you use your oven?

The needs for a scratch cook who cooks for 10 every day might be a lot different from a small family that stirfries every night which is different from someone who cooks minimally.

For an oven, someone who roasts meat and veggies will have different need from someone who bakes a lot.

Most here don't care about whether the stainless matches or not but some do and it really would bother them if it doesn't. If your that person you should consider it. Do keep in mind though that sometimes stainless does not match within a brand

I have a Wolf DF range and do not think the quality is the best. Search Wolf blue chipping in the search box above. The new M series oven was redesigned to address the blue chipping but the DF range and and "E" oven are unchanged.

johnsoro25 - I'm glad to hear you like the thermador appliances. i am actually considering the same ones. I'm also considering the Miele 48" range and I already have 1 Miele d/w like you.

I started with a Miele DW. Found a deal on some discontinued Miele ovens, so ended up getting everything Miele to keep a clean look since the induction cooktop and fridge were on the short list anyway.

Buying any appliance today is not a sure bet. The best way to be prepared is to get online and do all the research needed. When you think you've targeted what would work with your budget then post those appliances with the style numbers for comment.

A kitchen can be put together in many ways. Even appliance choices can change depending on where you live and what the service conditions might be.

Few here at GW will recommend going with one brand only. The prevailing opinion here always has been to mix the best of the best FOR YOUR NEEDS.

Wolf/SubZero and Miele are top of the line brands.

Thermador is a high middle range brand as is Kitchen Aid.

Deals are deals. I think a lot depends on the dealer, timing and sometimes on luck.

Wolf/SZ is known for excellent service which helps them command the premium price. Miele service can be excellent or not so much depending on where you live and if their factory service is available. However, I have a 12 y.o. Miele dishwasher that has never needed repair. I have had excellent service from them and even a replacement on warranty.

I have no idea about Thermador and KA service. That uncertainly pretty much kept me from going with a Thermador built in refrigerator. But others have had excellent experience with the Thermador built in fridge and love it. Most all reports on SZ fridges are excellent though occasionally there are duds.

Thermador is a high middle range brand as is Kitchen Aid.

While that may be true of their gas cooktops and dishwashers, I think their built-in refrigerators and induction cooktops are considered top of the line.

hsvmom - you mentioned removing the rack system from you Miele oven when you clean. I have a new Miele oven and the manual says to leave the rack system in the oven. Is your manual suggesting to remove them or are you removing them out of caution. Thank you!

My manual states that they "are suitable for cleaning during the Self Clean program and can remain in the oven" (p. 122). Then it mentions they can discolor but will still function normally. I choose to remove them and hand clean them so they will not lose their color. Just a little extra type A over here (and my kids are getting older so I have a little more time during the day than when we had little ones at home) :-)

Re the microwave drawer, I used to have a problem cleaning the 'ceiling' but now I cover everything with this and don't have a problem.

Thank you hsvmom for the info. I checked my user manual (I have the single wall oven) and it warns about the racks and flexiclip discoloring. I had already planned to remove those. I will remove the whole assembly to be on the safe side. Like you I want my oven to stay looking new as long as possible. Thank you again!

Don't worry about matching stainless. That's not a big issue.

No one company does everything well. It's best to make a list of what appliances are required. Then begin to fill the list. As someone said, we will review the list and give you more detailed advice.

Everyone forgets ventilation when they start the list. It's a big expense item and must be included.

You need to make a decision about whether you want a range or separate cooktop/rangetop and wall oven(s). It drives the direction of your decisions.

You need to make a decision on whether your cooking surface will be using natural gas, propane, induction or electric. This will drive you decisions.

You need to analyze what type of cook you are and how you will use your appliances.

Last, some appliances are used more often in a kitchen and need to be a higher priority than others. Buy the best cooktop you can afford. Spend for good quality. It will be used hard. The oven is typically used a little less often and you could make a compromise in budget without too much sacrifice. The dishwasher needs to be dependable, but you could save by selecting a unit with fewer whiz bang features. Those are some examples of setting priorities.

Once you have answered some of these questions, you will be ready to proceed a little further in the decision making process.

Hsvmom- thank you for your thorough explanation of each of the products and their performance. I am getting the Miele 48" range, Miele dishwasher, Wolf microwave drawer, Wolf combi steam and SZ integrated fridge. Your experiences with the rangetop and ovens make me feel better about my decision to go with Miele. I'm so glad to hear that they are easy to clean/the self clean functions well. Your kitchen is beautiful!

I started a thread on the kitchen forum a couple of weeks ago asking if it's OK to mix appliance brands. I got a resounding "YES!" Everyone said what is being said here--no one brand is the clear winner on every single appliance. And each household's needs is different.

I'm getting a refrigerator/freezer, dishwasher, induction cooktop, single wall oven that can be used in regular or induction mode, microwave/steam oven combo, and hood. Six appliances, six different manufacturers.

In my case, I'm getting black appliances. To give it a more integrated look, I made sure the oven, dw, micro, and refridge all have black handles, as opposed to some having SS handles.

I hope this helps! :-)

Hi! We finished a total kitchen reno last month. We did our research and we decided on the Thermador Pro Grand 36" range AG, 6 burner. We absolutely love it. It has PLENTY of BTUs and oven itself is plenty big. I read a lot of reviews here and yes people seem to be down on Thermador. We went with the 1,2 Free as well but upgraded our DW to the Sapphire model. Its a Thermador branded Bosch. It's quiet and has the blue LEDs lighting up the inside. There is a LED that projects ontop the floor to tell you its running because its that quiet!

Back to the range...the raised burners make cleaning it easy. The start burners really heat the whole pan and boiling water on the front right power burner is really much faster than a conventional burner. Boiled 6 qts of water for pasta in half the time.

There have been complaints about the XLO function regarding clicking and how annoying it is. I have to say its not annoying at all. Its one click every 53 seconds to restart the burner. The XLO burners will run the flame for 7 seconds out of every 60 for an ultra low simmer. To me the click reminds me that the burner is on XLO. its not even loud. We did go with the toe kick option. We have a dog and didnt want any loose hair to possibly end up under the stove and it looks great too. I have a picture of it in my idea book. As for the hood we opted out of the Thermador and went with XO. It was less expensive and has a builtin blower. The Thermador blower is seperate from the hood.

Everyone is a critic. I hope my own experience helps you make the right choice for you.

Just reading one comment above refer to Thermador as a high mid-level brand? Its most definitely a high level range. AT $7500 for the Pro Grand I'm pretty sure that's high level and NOT a Kitchen Aid. Id compare Kitchen Aid to GE or Frigidaire. Speaking of refrigerators, we went with Electrolux wave touch french door model. So yes, anything you want to do in YOUR kitchen is right for you.

Smittyb,

Kitchenaid ranges price up to $13k msrp. See the link to the Kitchenaid Website.

Homepro- the most expensive KA on your link is 10k. Still in the tier of GE monogram etc. I paid a few k more for my Thermador 48 steam pro. I certainly do not mind if people consider Thermador a mid level brand, I know how well it functions and I didn't buy it to cook for them ;)

Homepro01 Thanks for the FYI. I didnt know that. I looked at the site and the 36 inch model is comparable to the Thermador. It even kind of looks like a Thermador.

In my kitchen currently I have a Thermador cooktop and hood (18 years old and still like new performance wise) a Jenn-Air double oven (also 18 years old) a Frigidaire dishwasher and LG French door Fridge. All in stainless. We just had a real estate agent in to look at the house to list and she loved the kitchen and thought the 2 older appliances were recent additions. They are all similar enough in style that they don't look like mismatched add ons. She told us to paint the cabinets but leave the rest. For me that is the stamp of approval. So mix away! For mine, the handles on the fridge and dishwasher are similar so that helps with blending. The ovens are on the opposite side of the island so maybe that is why is not as obvious.

Thank you so much everyone. Everyone here is so helpful. We def. place more importance on a nice fridge/freezer combo and also a nice range top. We cook at home almost everyday, but we are far from a "top chef" skill level. We have decided to get a high quality range top and fridge/freezer. We are not sure about the ovens/dishwasher/hood/microwave? We would rather save a little money on these so we can get the range top and fridge/freezer we want. Currently we have a double oven and use the oven a few times a week. For the new house we have to decide which oven/steam oven/ double oven/ or convection micro over oven works the best. How important is the oven or ovens? We heard about a steam oven? What brands make steam ovens? What makes steam ovens so nice?

Thanks again,

Greg

melis918: Sharp makes the Wolf microwave drawer (and other brands, too). They are all the same drawer just different face plates / brand labels. If you weren't interested in the Wolf label, you could save some money and go with the Sharp branded one.

gregorymatthew3535: The Miele double ovens have steam in the upper oven. I have used it only a handful of times. It served us well at Thanksgiving with the meat dishes. By far, I received a better deal on certain appliances from certain places. For example, Ferguson had a much better price on the Vent-a-Hood insert we bought compared to the closest appliance store competitor here. Sometimes (and this could be a good window for you) appliance stores change out their displays and sell the display units for less money. There were missing Miele display ovens in one store and a couple of Wolf items available in another. All of the major brands have a fixed retailer price (Bosch, Miele, Wolf, etc.) and aren't discounted...at least that was our experience shopping in two cities in our state. I shopped and shopped on ebay, convinced I would find a deal there, but never felt comfortable enough to make a purchase. Some of the sellers on there run stores where they are selling discontinued items and if you had one of those sellers near you, you could come away with some excellent products at a very fair price. Lastly, I moved away from the $12K plus refrigerator / freezers in favor of the Liebherr. The reviews are mixed, but I have been nothing but pleased. They have unique configuration options, too. We put a dedicated filtered water faucet at our kitchen sink to make up for our lack of interest in ice / water in the door. Both our contractor and the appliance store we bought from told us that is the #1 repair item on side by side units.

Happy shopping!

hsvmom- I know that all the mw drawers are made by Sharp and was planning on getting a Sharp, but since it will be directly below the Wolf cso I think the Wolf will look better.

In my new kitchen addition, I went for the Thermador 1-2-Free. I've only just begun, but so far, I love the French door fridge (panels), the dw (panels), Pro-Harmony 6-burner dual-fuel and the 600cfm canopy hood.

The only thing I'd say is to know your building code on ANY range and hood before buying. My range (against a tiled wall) required a 9" stainless back guard from Thermador to protect the wall from fire. In my city, any range hood over 400 cfm requires a special switch installed to turn on the HVAC fan when the hood is turned on, so that there is air in the house from which to draw.

Hsvmom - I really wanted a dedicated cold water dispenser at the sink like what you described. Which one did you get? I didn't want the water in the fridge door. However, two different stores steered me away from cold water dispenser at sink. They said the sink cold water dispensers break frequently, and are very noisy. Was I steered wrong? We ended up with the dispenser in the fridge door, in a Kitchenaid side-by-side fridge, and I wish I'd gotten a French door fridge instead. The fridge door water dispenser has been fine, but this forum and Consumers Reports say they are the first thing to break on a fridge. You can't win!

Relax , not all bad things happen to everyone. Our SZ side by side with water and ice dispenser at the door has been working for more than 10 years without a problem. Never has been serviced. Shhhhhhh

Inga

A friend of mine has a SZ side-by-side that is now 21 years old! Still going. She is pro-active and now has it checked out annually since she and her husband have a second home that they go to and leave the SZ running while they're away.

First, we have different manufacturer's products in our kitchen and they blend just fine. Our fridge/freezer are integrated, so there's no SS to match there. We have a Wolf 36" gas range top, a Miele DW, KA double ovens, Sharp MW drawer and Thermador fridge/freezer columns (30"/24").

I've been happy with all of our choices, for the most part. We have Thermador Freedom 30" fridge and the 24" freezer columns, installed 2 years ago. We have had one issue with the fridge that I think that you should know about. After momentary power blips, the fridge power comes back on, but the refrigeration does not. This only happens after those quick momentary blips. We have a whole-house generator that comes on after a few seconds, but what I'm referring to are the outages that come and go too quickly for the generator to kick in.

The fridge appears to be running after this happens, but it's not. We've had to toss the entire contents of our fridge twice as a result. There's nothing in the fridge to tell you that it's not cooling, no alarm or error code displayed. The lights work just fine when you open the door and the temperature display shows what it's SET to, not the current temp in the fridge. We have a thermometer in the fridge as a result of the first time this happened, but that only helps if you are there to read it and notice the drop in temperature. The fridge is on it's own separate breaker. The freezer doesn't share this issue, fortunately.

We had service come out just today and they said that it's not a fault of the fridge, it's due to the power outage! It took much longer to get the fridge running again this time, we thought it wasn't going to, it took so long. The service man said maybe it could be the control panel, but no guarantee that would fix the problem (he doubted that it would). Also refused that it was a warranty issue, even though this happened and was reported first while still under warranty. He couldn't answer why this only happened to the fridge and not the freezer if it wasn't a problem, except to say 'that's how computer's are'. Unacceptable.

This is a very expensive refrigerator that can't handle a momentary blip in power. We are not dropping this and hope to get a satisfactory resolution from Thermador. As it stands, we risk losing everything in our refrigerator if there's a power blip and we're not home to notice.

I will let you know how this resolves.

aquinski - do you live in an area with frequent power outages? I used to live in Atlanta and there were many power "blips" like you describe. Maybe it is due to thunderstorms or other weather related issues. I currently live in Northern CA and i think power outages are pretty rare here. Does it happen every single time power goes out or just sometimes? Maybe where i live this would not be an issue (I've lived here 15 years and probably can count the number of power outages on one hand). However, definitely something to look into further. Please keep us posted on how your situation turns out.

Hi Bardzil, we don't have frequent power outages, but we have had very lengthy ones, hence the whole-house generator. We installed the generator 2 years ago as well and have only had 2 instances where it came on and stayed on for any length of time. The small blips are infrequent as well, but not unusual when there are storms.

I don't believe this has happened every time we've had a blip, but can't say for sure since they are so infrequent.

I do have an update re this issue.

Thermador is sending out one of their reps next week, with parts in hand, to repair our refrigerator. The service tech who came out today was from a local appliance store that services Thermador. The woman my husband spoke with at Thermador today was very helpful and agrees that there is an issue. She's promised that it will be resolved.

We're very pleased with this response and feel confident that they will follow through as promised (I'll let you know if it doesn't happen that way). So far they've been very responsive and helpful. I hope that it does get resolved because other than this issue, we've loved the fridge and freezer columns.

Oh....aquinski, I have a new Thermador French door and a whole-house generator (Genrac). Since my kitchen is an addition, all of the wiring, panels, etc. are new. I think my Genrac is setup to text every Wednesday. I'll have to watch and see what happens. Thanks for the heads-up about a potential issue.

Hi Dyhgarden, just to clarify, the problem isn't when the generator comes on, it only happens when there's a very momentary blip in the power that comes and goes too quickly for the generator to kick in. The clocks will flash to let us know there's been a power outage, but otherwise it passes very quickly, a second or two. I have a generac as well and it works great. The times we have had to rely on it (and it ran for days) we never had an issue with the fridge or freezer.

thanks!

Very very happy with our Sub Zero. Have had it for almost 2 years. It is amazing how long produce stays fresh!

aquinski:

Have you considered the possibility of adding a high power, line interactive, pure sine wave UPS to the refrigerator circuit (e.g. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00429N19W)?

Hi John, thanks for the advice. I had no idea what you were referring to and took a look at the link you provided. I can't figure out how I would use this for the fridge? The Freedom column is an integrated unit, fully within a cabinet. Where would this unit be placed? I'm assuming that the fridge would have to plug directly into it? Our only option, I think, would be to drill a hole in our hardwood floor and run the cord to the basement and plug it into the unit down there. I'm not sure how practical that would be, and if it would work. Thermador is coming out next week and hopefully will rectify the situation. They said that they're coming with parts in hand, so it sounds like they know what the problem is - I hope.

If Thermador has a fix, that would definitely be the best solution.

The UPS could potentially be used as an absolute last resort, if all else fails. It plugs into the wall and the refrigerator would plug into the UPS. The question is whether the UPS is capable of handling the potentially high surge current drawn by the refrigerator's compressor when it starts up. If it turns out to be the only option to solve the problem, you would definitely need to get formal approval from Thermador tech support/engineering before even attempting it since it could possibly have a very bad interaction with the refrigerator and cause damage.

Disclaimer: Use of a UPS with a refrigerator was just a random thought/question -- not a recommendation.

I have an update on my Thermador PRG366. Since my posts above the range has been visited no less than 6 times bu BSH technicians trying to fix a cooling fan error. The range is a lemon and after multiple attempts and finally public shaming I am receiving a new range from Thermador. I will update if and when this range fails as well. I have lost confidence in Thermador

UPDATE! Thermador has replaced our PRG366 with a brand spanking new out of the box PRG366 on Friday May 19th, We used it twice and...drum roll...it choked out the same error! Check Cooling Fan. Call the 1800 number. Heating up frozen appetizers at 425 degrees for 30 minutes. This is madness

OMG!! It's a curse! Have you had an electrician check the wiring? Just in case there's some kind of irregularity that's making this happen? I don't know about the model numbers, but I have a relative who has a fairly similar Thermador range that hasn't given him a peep. That's why I think it's either the service or a curse. :)

Even if the outlet produces a constant 120v, there could still be a wiring error in the ground connection. There are inexpensive devices that can check this. For example:

https://www.amazon.com/Electrical-Receptacle-Outlet-Ground-Tester/dp/B0012DHVQ0

Also, is this link relevant to the problem that you're seeing?

http://www.fixya.com/support/t2700836-error_code_43

I'll look into that article and thanks for posting it.

The error says Check Cooling Fan. The fans are most certainly running as you can hear and feel the wind they produce. BSH was out to our house over 7 times with the first unit and replaced everything electronic and yet the problem was still there. Now we have this brand new unit and there is still the same error. I used a ground test plug and that proved the outlet is sane. I work in IT. I understand sometimes you get a bad unit. But two?

Given your background, maybe you'll appreciate my test everything (even if it's a curse) mentality: I know it's a big ol' range, but have you tried plugging it into a different circuit? Since it took four days to show the error code, there might be some kind of intermittent fault in the wiring that's just enough to cause the error.

Since the fans are running, there also may be an issue with a whole batch of sensors. Or a batch of fans, so that they're running but not up to specification.

So @smittyb how'd you end up fairing with the Thermador range? Get it working?

Yes! We got it sorred out. So it turned out to be a loose circuit breaker. It was the new sub panel put in for our kitchen reno. We had some electrical work done and hired an electrician tonadd some recessed lighting. He ran it back to the new subpanel and he comes up from the basement nd asks if we were having problems with the stove. I said yes. He said he noticed the breaker wasnt seated properly. It was making a connection but just barely. He popped it out and popped it back in and sure enough I went and ran that oven at 500 for an hour with no issues. The cause imo was the weak current was causing the computer to think there was a fan issue. An anomaly. Want to say we have since moved and it was a relief to be able to have that taken care of. I will buy Thermdor again! They did send us a new range (after repeated service calls). So would so donit again

Thanks for the reply.