Barrier island - and a big barrier island at that love it

doors not drawers - what I prefer

Nightowl - I'm not sure yet! I'll let you know when I'm done. :)

Do you have any photos of your kitchen in older posts? Would love to see it.

There are bits and pieces if you search. No glamour shots yet though. That is a few weeks away. May get tiling this week or next. Floors a few weeks out.

I didn't design the kitchen I live with now, but it does break some "rules".

1. Island seating overhang is 10.75" not the 15" minimum recommended.

2. Aisle between island (seating side) and back of sofa is only 39".

3. Aisle between end of island and pantry cab/ counter is a mere 29".

4. Range hood does not vent to outside.

5. By TKO standards range is too close to corner to work well for user.

Despite all this, it has been a very comfortable kitchen for it's owners (and their family ) for the past 25 years - go figure. ;)

Not sure if they're rules but we had a lot of people told us we shouldn't use 1in hex floor tiles because of the number of grout lines and that they would kill our resale value. People also told us we should move the laundry to the basement that doesn't have interior access. We couldn't be happier we didn't listen to those people.

One side of our galley is counters are at 38" and the other side they are at 36". One for me and one for DH - everyone is happy especially the 6'6" guy! Pretty sure it never occurred to anyone to make a rule about that though. And what's symmetry? I get really confused by how many people want symmetry - I did what fit and made sense for utility.

Oh so many. This was a kitchen of compromises.

1. We do not have a window in the kitchen (over the sink or otherwise). The kitchen is open to the dining room, which has big, bright balcony doors, but the lack of immediate natural light in the kitchen is very sad to me. I really really tried to get one in there, but the kitchen's exterior wall is a shear wall, and to make it still work as a shear wall during an earthquake with a window, it was going to cost $16,000 to install the window with a whole bunch of fancy earthquake pinnings and ties. Our entire kitchen budget was $15,000, so there was s no way, but I am still SO sad that we don't have a window.

2. I have 15" inches (barely) between my range and my sink instead of having a nice-sized prep counter between the two. I live in a multistory condominium complex and could not move the vent for the range (my upstairs and downstairs neighbors share our vent), so that really constrained things.

Originally, on the wall it went range--> tiny counter --> sink --> dishwasher --> 24" deep peninsula.

I could have lost the peninsula and gotten 24" more inches between the range and sink instead, but the peninsula is the point of the kitchen closest to the dining room, so it is the ONLY counter in the whole kitchen that even pretends to have natural light. It also faces the balcony, the dining room, the living room, and the TV. Without it, my prep counter would face a dark, windowless wall. I am not sorry AT ALL that I kept the peninsula at the expense of a more efficiently-placed prep counter. Much more pleasant to work at.

I also could have moved the dishwasher between the sink and range and gotten 39" between the two that way. I was really 50/50 on this. The normal argument about not putting the dishwasher in the prep zone so someone can clean while you prep didn't apply here. No matter which side the dishwasher was on, a prepping person at the peninsula is blocking either the sink or the dishwasher. Clean up and prep could never happen simultaneously.

So we could have put the dishwasher between the sink and range. It'd have been VERY nice to have 39" of counter between the range and sink, and then I would've also been able to open the peninsula drawers when the dishwasher was open.

But with the dishwasher to the right of the sink, I had over 60" of continuous prep counter (24" counter dishwasher and then the peninsula) instead of 36" ish just on the peninsula, and it faces a view, and that was also the cheapest option because that's how it was originally.

So I kept the dishwasher to the right of the sink. However, now that I have lived with this, I think we should have moved the dishwasher to the left of the sink (between the range and sink). I almost never use the counter over the dishwasher while prepping, and I discovered (never having lived with this before) that I don't like turning 90 degrees and taking a step or two to go between the prep counter (on the peninsula) and the sink. I'd rather the sink were less far from the peninsula, and I knew I would hate and do hate having so little counter between the sink and range.

So in this case, I broken the prep counter location rule, and I wish I'd broken the dishwasher location rule instead!

3. I have 28" between my uppers and my counter instead of the standard 18". (All my uppers are the same height as the cabinet above the range.)

I did this because:

- I don't like having uppers in my face.

-I hoped it'd allow for more natural light to sneak into the kitchen from the dining room.

- I hoped it'd make the kitchen feel airy and open instead of dark and cave-like.

- I didn't want the range to have the visual distinction of a differently-heighted cabinet (as is typical). The range's placement in the kitchen is just so awkward that I wanted to downplay its presence as much as possible.

This choice worked beautifully to achieve all that, and it had the added surprising bonus of making the ceiling height look taller (something about the proportions create that illusion). My husband and I are tall-ish (5'9" and 5'11"), and we have almost nothing in the upper cabinets anyway, so we haven't been sorry at all to have uppers that would frustrate short people.

Not me, but just saw a UK magazine where the sink and dishwasher were in the pantry across the hall --- after the reno because husband insisted.

Huh?

For budgetary reasons, we did not open up between the kitchen and living room, but it is one semi-large kitchen/dining combo and the dining is open to the living room. Actually, I'm kinda glad we kept the wall now. I'm not a "social" cooker and prefer being alone.

When we finish the island we are not going to have seating. We had it before and anyone sitting there was in my way to open the refrigerator.

I put my microwave and toaster, along with breads and microwave snacks like popcorn in an armoire in the kitchen. Time will tell if that was a good choice or not. It keeps everyone out of my work area which so far, works for me.

We did not put a prep sink on island. I do all the cooking and my prep is all done between my sink and range which is only 44" to the corner and 14" from corner to the range. The only time I use the island is for buffet serving or if I'm baking, I'll sit the hot items there to cool.

I only have three uppers. A 30" to the left of sink and a 30" on the right of sink and next to it, an 18" that ends at the corner. Because the range hood on the next wall blocks the 18", the different size door doesn't bother me.

No wall cabinets on the range wall. It wasn't the layout I really wanted, but because we couldn't change the layout, I didn't want 10" wall cabinets on each side of a hood that would be completely useless.

There are probably more, but two I can think of are:

1. the aisle width between one side of my island and a perimeter counter with the sink is only 37". My other aisles are all 42" or greater.

2. our dishwasher is in the prep zone!

We've been using our new kitchen for 11 months now (though not everything was finished) and I can report that:

#1 hasn't been an issue at all. In fact I find it's quite easy to rinse things at the sink, turn around and put them right onto the island where I do most of my prep. And we don't seem to have a traffic jam even though the space isn't that wide. We can easily walk past another person. I didn't worry much about this at all b/c I felt the distance would be okay and I much preferred to have a wider island (it's not a big island, it's 3'x5') then have a few more inches of aisle space.

#2 has also not been an issue. I thought a lot about the placement of my dishwasher. Along one perimeter counter I have, left to right, trash, sink, dishwasher, more counter. A 90 degree turn, then counter, range, counter. So my dishwasher is in between my sink and my range. I could have switched my dishwasher and trash. However to the left of the sink is much easier for people coming into and out of the kitchen to access and a much better place for the trash to be located. That pullout gets opened a lot! And the cabinets and drawers where it made the most sense to keep dishes and glasses are to the right of the sink and in the island directly behind the sink. So putting the dishwasher on the right made much more sense logistically for unloading purposes. Also, we don't ever have someone prepping while another cleans b/c we clean up after prep is done, so we don't have a problem with someone opening the dishwasher while someone else is prepping.

My kitchen is in progress, but I will be breaking 2 rules.

First rule: I'm adding and enlarging windows. To do this and still have symmetry, my prep counter will be located in a corner. The section to the right of the sink is 18 inches and the other side of the corner will be 30, butting into the range.

Second rule: Refrigerator and MW will be located across the room, well beyond the recommended leg distance.

I have an over the range microwave. I really tried to find a way around it for a long time, but doing something else would have necessitated either using up my scant counter space, or giving up the most valuable (reachable) storage.

That, and a "real hood" would have cost more $. As it turned out, the heat duct going upstairs turned out to be right behind the range - so a hood would not have been able to vent directly outside without a turn, anyway.

Another kitchen of compromises.

- barrier island in a small kitchen. It's multi-functional; we love it

- work aisles are 39 instead of standard 42". It works fine for empty nesters

- fridge on opposite side of room from sink. It's a small kitchen

ah yes.....my frig is on opposite side of island from sink, too. Not really an issue for us.

amck2, pretty kitchen! Very warm and inviting.

amck-who could wince at that? takes my breath away every time!

banana- laundry in a non-accessible basement? Are you kidding?! Also, anyone who saw your new floor would love it, cleaning can go hang!

In my (not new) kitchen, I'm living with no vent and dishwasher across a five foot aisle and down three feet. Those are two "rules" I won't break if I ever get a new kitchen!

I spent more on my hood fan than any other appliance. Damn you Zephyr and your tempting stainless sculptures.

In my current kitchen which we did five years ago are two things.

1. In my dining area/breakfast bar area, there is only 49" between the breakfast bar and the dining table. It's more than enough for the two of us and for when guests come. We just push the bar stools under the counter.

2. We opened the kitchen to the dining area and we only had a space of 35" between counters to the dining room. It was either that or walk into the foyer and around to get to the dining room. Here's a picture of the sink area with breakfast bar behind it and the "narrow" aisle into the dining room.

In our new house we'll have only about 42" between our island and our dining table. While not ideal, we'll manage although I'm still working on other ideas.

amck, what a beautiful and charming kitchen!!

cpartist, your kitchen is so cozy and and I love your views!

I did several things that are not usually recommended.

1 . I have a corner sink. I want more that 2 feet of continuous countertop.

2. I did not place this sink under a window.(see #1)

3. I have 2 peninsulas and no island.

4. I got rid of my closet pantry and place uppers and base cabinets in the space instead. I makes the space appear more open.

5. I have a raised bar instead of a counter height overhang. It allows me to keep the sink out of view when you enter the house. (see #1)I

6. I have as many doors on my base cabinets as I door drawers.

7. Walkways entering and leaving the kitchen are only 34 inches. IT used to be 28 inches entering the space on one end and 32 inches on the other end.

8. I did not eliminate the soffits on either side of the space, although I could have easily done so on one side.

9. My laundry room and bathroom are still entered thru the kitchen.

I am sure there are more, but the home is 30 years old and what we have done fixes the space to work much better than it did.

Gayle

in my current build:

I'm having the window over the prep area. I figure I'd be doing most of the prep before guests arrive (unless we're doing pot luck). I want to look up and out.

Although most of the kitchen is ADA compliant, countertops will be 38 inches tall. *I'm* tall and don't stoop very well.

The microwave will be miles from the fridge, and on a countertop. My reasoning is that once I heat something up in it, I'll be eating or drinking it in the dining room/area -- may as well grab it and go on my way out of the kitchen. Besides, I really don't use it all that often. EDIT to add: It would be handy when I have pot lucks and people want to nuke food, this will be out of the main prep traffic area for those who finish up other things on site.

I'll have a peninsula, no island.

I'm not painting anything white, or gray. One wall may be painted off-white. Cabinets will be stained, not painted.

Where I currently reside: just about everything about this late 60's kitchen has broken rules, and to really bad effect.

Ice, water, stone, fire; aisle width; and vent 6" wider than range. If I had a new build I'd handle these differently but in a remodel there's almost always tradeoffs. In a very high cost of living area moving the kitchen to a different room in the house could add $50-100K to the cost. I'd rather retire early.

I have a small barrier island, and aisles that are just a tad tighter than ideal around it. But I am the only cook, and we are empty nesters. We packed a huge amount into a small kitchen, and a u-shape would have given better flow. In the end, however, the barrier island has been no issue for us. With the snug aisles, once in a while the HD and I "meet" at the fridge, but if I had it do do over again, yeah, I would.

No dishwasher, no garbage disposal, no window over sink, no tile backsplash, nothing white or grey, have diagonal corner and staggered height cabinets, hood is same size as range, but higher CFM and vented. Small kitchens make for some no-nos, but they can be truly functional and beautiful!

Our dishwasher is to the right of the sink in the area gardenwebberswould think of as the prep zone, and our trash and a beverage refrigerator are to the right. I was so worried we had made a mistake based on threads I had read. We've only been in the house a week now and but I like the flow the way it is. My husband and I don't cook and cleanup together (he cooks and I clean up after dinner) so we are not in each other's way, and having the beverage refrigerator on the side of the island closest to the living room means that people can help themselves to a drink without interrupting us while we are prepping food.

This thread is reassuring, given that I designed my kitchen before I found you all. For me it's more a question of which rules did I follow, since I've broken so many.

I have a barrier worktable in the middle of the space (about 275 sq ft) with the rangetop on one end and the refrigerator on the other. It's too far from the stove to the sink, although I handle huge heavy hot pots easily enough. The prep space was designed to be able to take huge bunches of beets with tops, chard, kale and the like straight from the fridge to a deep sink, but that sink doesn't have counter on either side. Our peninsula overhang is only 12 inches, but the seating there will be mostly for my dad, who has very short legs, and my niece, who'll remain short for a few more years.

My baking center/tea area and the central work table have 33 inch countertops because I'm short. Nothing is symmetrical except the baking center.

Here's the plan:

It's too close to done to change anything. I can't even imagine how spectacular it would have been if I'd known a year ago what I've learned from all of you.

amck2, your post made me smile and your kitchen is lovely. We are doing a kitchen reno of sorts in our small kitchen due to the death of our range, lol. Anyway, I have also chosen square tile and am so pleased to see how pretty yours looks!

My current kitchen breaks loads of rules:

- Seating overhang at the peninsula is too small for comfort, and people seated at the peninsula block the French doors to the covered porch.

- Desk is located smack-dab in the middle of the kitchen

- Pantry is at the back of the kitchen, meaning we have to traverse the length of the kitchen to reach storage

- Refrigerator is squished up against the wall, making it difficult to open the door all the way

- Upper cabinets are too high for not-quite-5'-tall-me

- Deep dark corner cabinet is inaccessible; a cabinet door opening towards the breakfast room would've been totally possible

- Lighting is only good over the peninsula, so I do 95% of my prep in that 3' area.

- Only two electrical outlets

- Best spot for the microwave oven places it in such a way that the door opens towards the back wall

- It's a galley kitchen layout, but the two aisles are too far apart to work together

- Adjacent breakfast room is located perfectly, but is carpeted ... well, for a few more weeks it's carpeted; I can't wait to see this stuff GO AWAY

How many of these broken rules are mistakes? 100%

No, breaking the rules isn't always a mistake, but they exist for a reason; don't break them without thinking through!

In my new kitchen, I think the only rule I'm breaking is that I won't have a window over the sink. I do expect to regret it a bit, but it's a compromise that gets me the other things I really want ... and I do hate washing the window over my sink now.

Oven/range across from sink with traffic flow between them. LOTS of people on here told me tisk tisk tisk . But, more than three years post-reno and its never been an issue. It was truly the best use of my space and I have no regrets.

I have obviously missed something. Why is there a rule that states the kitchen sink needs to be under a window? I will also have aisles that are too narrow, but they are as wide or wider than I have now, so I know they will work for me. I won't have a prep sink and I also gave up symmetry for function. BUT, I don't have a barrier island, my fridge is not next to a wall, I have a landing spot for items coming from the cooktop, oven and fridge and I have drawers, drawers and more drawers. What more does a person need?

Algeasea

yeah, I hear ya. My kitchen was mostly done on my new build before I found this forum, but I did pick up some pointers. Great place.

No garbage disposal. It would be easier, in some ways, to have one to get rid of the little scraps. But I compost & because I have a trash/recycling pullout under one side of the sink, I'd have had to give up a good amount of space under the other, open side for a disposal.

I have an over the range microwave. I resisted doing it for a long time, after reading many (many) cons on here. But in a small kitchen, it just felt like giving up that extra counter or storage space for a microwave (and having to buy a hood on top of that) just wasn't worth the trade offs. My OTR does have 400 CFM, and vents outside, though (I will admit) there is some grease splatter when I stir fry.

Sherri, there ISN'T a rule about having the sink under a window. It's just what is customary going back decades. The sink should be where it makes functional sense. And that may not be in front of a window or, if it is, it may not be centered under the window.

From what I read, we didn't spend enough LOL!

We have a few- three inside corners, although I made them all work. No disposal. I suppose Formica counters in an otherwise fully custom kitchen would be considered a faux pas, but we are not big fans of stone or solid surface. We also used surface mount, stainless steel sinks.

My cooktop is next to a wall

and my DW is under the cooktop.

I have only 9" on the right side of the stove, and therefore 9" cabinets upper and lower. Many would say that was useless but it is plenty of room for cooking, and just enough room for the coffeemaker on the counter, and the tea and coffee and drink mixes above it while the lower is a spice pullout.

On the other side of the stove the corner cabinet is only 33x34 which makes the bifold door only 8.5x9. However, I am still able to put my biggest soup pots and appliances in there and haven't found it too awkward (yet) to reach everything -- although it is a reach all the way to the back. As I get older and less limber am sure that I will have to figure out how to fit lazy susans in.

I also put the dishwasher on the "wrong" side of the sink -- on the right, in the prep zone -- but on the other side would have placed it next to the doorway, on the opposite side (sink) of the dish cabinets, in the spot where I hated it for 2 decades. Truly, no one around here loads or unloads the dw while cooking is happening so it really doesn't interfere with any activity.

The refrigerator is only 30". I could have made one or both of the flanking cupboards smaller to accommodate a 33" but I really preferred to have the cupboard space, even if only 3".

Funkycamper - I agree, but there were 3 or 4 people that said they broke the rule of not having their sink under a window.

We put in an island with counter seating as opposed to the previous peninsula with counter seating backing up to a kitchen table. We decided we did not need two eating spaces in the kitchen. We have a dining room with table 5 feet away.

I have obviously missed something. Why is there a rule that states the kitchen sink needs to be under a window?

Call it a convention or a tradition then, but it's something that many people strongly prefer, even though it isn't necessarily an increase in function.

Sinks under windows are a holdover from when all dishes were washed by hand - before DWs! Now, the Prep Zone counterspace is usually the "thing" that makes the most sense to go under the window!

+++++++++

While it's not a rule, I put my trash pullout in the Cleanup Zone instead of the Prep Zone - and I regret it every single day! If only I could do it over....

I have only about 48" b/w my peninsula overhang and the DR table if I center the DR table under the chandelier - another regret. It was supposed to be more, but we forgot to move the chandelier in the DR to accommodate the new location! It's only an issue when someone is sitting in both locations, but that's often enough, especially when we have guests.

Finally, I actually followed a rule - minimum of 15" clear leg/knee space for the seating overhang - and it's still too shallow! I wish we had done 18"! My DS never sits there (he uses the DR table instead) and my DH only uses it for breakfast - and that's only b/c we moved the TV and that's the only place he can see it while eating breakfast. He has to straddle the cabinets and lean over to reach the counter. (Yup! I'll go to any lengths to get my DH to sit there! ) My DD and I sit there, but my knees do hit the back of the cabinets (but just barely).

My remodel was more a facelift than a complete redo. My 10x10 kitchen is G-shaped and I have FOUR blind corner cabs (one upper, three lowers). What lives in the dark recesses is infrequently used and my life is not ruined. I have enough cabinet space to make this sacrifice.

My DW is under my prep area. Since I live alone and am the only one using the kitchen, I cannot prep *and* access the DW at the same time, so it's of no consequence to me. There isn't a lot of symmetry in my kitchen either. Not a problem. The large window over my sink that provides natural light all day long is a life-saver.

Funkycamper - I agree, but there were 3 or 4 people that said they broke the rule of not having their sink under a window.

Yeah, I guess they think it's a rule when it's not? ;)

I put my fridge a couple feet outside of the recommended distance for work triangles. The longer distance is between fridge and range. Since I very rarely go straight from fridge to range without stopping at the sink in-between the two, this isn't an issue.

I kept a blind corner. The stuff back there is rarely used (turkey roaster, Bundt cake pan, spring-open double-layer cake pans, and ??) so it's not an issue to dig a few times a year.

Sena, wow dw under the cooktop is something I've never seen before! Crazy! How does it work, is it terrible, or not too bad? I've never seen you recommend it in a layout thread, so probably not great:)

Funky, as you are our resident dw nazi, I hope it doesn't give you nightmares!;)

I break so many rules it's hard to decide what!

My cabinets don't match. Gotta have that symmetry, though! LOL. They're cherry on one side with the same style doors but they're of different ages, so they're definitely different colors. On the other side of the kitchen, they're weathered oak. Again, same style doors (very commonly found) but doesn't "go" with the cherry. But you cannot look at both at the same time. Throw in a few painted pieces and BOOM when those rules.

I just put my refrigerator in the mud room on the other side of an antique, French door that's a pocket. Lots more counter space.

I cut off my peninsula (don't worry, it didn't hurt.)

My kitchen floor is reclaimed pine. 10-12" boards, packing crates, pallets, blood sweat and more sweat. LOVE IT but it doesn't match the dark modern oak I have in the rest of the house. LOVE the definition.

I have a red sink.

I, too, love antique brass.

I break a lot of rules, but usually don't realize it until later. Then I'm just ahead of the game. Like drawers. When I began this rebuild in 2006, I insisted on all drawers. Oh, the nay-sayers. (Talk to the hand.) A motion sensor faucet in my MBR for my cats. Oh, was I CRAZY? If that's all the crazy I get, we're all lucky. :)

Just so newcomers aren't confused...a lot of things people are talking about on this thread are not "rules" -- just their aesthetic preferences or wants/don't wants.

Windows, garbage disposal, toe kicks, colors, symmetry, backsplash, etc., - they're not rules, just something you like or want/don't like or don't want/don't care one way or the other.

Locating the kitchen sink under a window has a lot to do with the amount of time you spend at the sink. If you are spending a lot of time at the sink it would be nice to have a view. There is no hard and fast rule on locating a sink under a window.

Prior to redoing the cabinets I used an 18" portable dishwasher. Now I have a full-size dishwasher installed; everything can fit in the new dishwasher. I used to spend a lot of time handwashing. Now I spend almost no time at the kitchen sink.

I absolutely insisted on putting the kitchen sink under the window. Now I realize that it's completely unnecessary to put it there because I barely use it. It would have been better to locate the prep area under the window as I do spend quite a bit of time there.

Nancy, it seems DW under cooktop is quite popular where I live )) I've had that arrangement in 2 previous kitchens and had to keep it in our summer house kitchen because of angled walls and some other constraints.

It's far from ideal of course, but for a one cook kitchen not too bad, so long as you have enough prep space on the other side of the sink.

CEFreeman_GW DC/MD Burbs 7b/8a

I'd love to see a picture of your pine floors- we are doing the same thing in our kitchen!