I don't know what the 20 mark is but powder dw in a Miele isn't the best option. It's likely you are using too much and, if so, that can cause etching.

I'm a longtime Miele owner with a water softener in the house. I must be very careful. I also wash my Riedel in the DW,

Mainly I use Method tabs and cut them in half. Someone sent me some Ecover tabs which are excellent as well but those are harder so I would use them for a large soiled load, not a heavily soiled one.

For very heavy loads with lots of dirty pots I will use a Finish Quantum tab. The Quantum tabs are extremely good but contain bleach which I try to keep out of our septic so those are less used.

Cascade etched my glassware. Some have good luck with it -- really depends on the water where you live -- but I didn't. I was happy to get rid of the powder as the smell bothers me also.

The Method tabs are at target. Drugstore.com has them and has Ecover. I watch for coupons on the Quantum.

I agree with Rococogurl, and am a fan of Method Smarty Tabs. I like the un-scented, but they come also in I think a grapefruit scent. I too break them in half depending upon how greasy is the load in my DW (e.g. if we've just had a ribs dinner with family and friends with all the fixins, I would use a whole tab).

Try the Method tabs first at Target to see if you like them. If you do, then go to Amazon which sells them in bulk for good prices.

I use several products in my Miele. I have had a Miele dishwasher for 15years.

• Method Smarty Tabs -this one I use the scent free one and it cleans very well
• Somat Detergent - this one I have used the Somat 5 and Somat 10 which I ordered from the UK.
• MieleCare Detergent - this one I like this detergent too

I have a detergent habit which is why I have so many but they all work equally well.

Good luck!

Technically, you can use any detergent in your Miele that you like. Two suggestions I would make

- I'm not sure if chlorinated detergent is the best choice. We haven't seen it here (in Miele's home country) in 20 to 30 years. Enzyme detergents work better in the longer cycles of today's dishwashers.

- Powder is the preferable way to go, as it's easier to dose and you can add a little to the prewash. Unfortunately, the better formulas are (mostly) all Pacs or Pods these days. Somat and Miele are nice product... but you pay for the prestige bonus. Several people have been happy with the Methods tabs.

I always used 1/2 Miele tab in in my Miele dishwasher with a whole house water softener. However my glassware did get etched if I used any cycle other than china/crystal and I got to the point where I just wouldn't use the DW for any glassware other than every day stuff that was easily replaceable. Unfortunately I didn't figure that out until after I'd damaged something that wasn't replaceable.

We use Finish Quantum LOVE THAT STUFF

gibby2015, my Riedel Vinum is my everyday glassware, and I am running the normal cycle. I guess I could try to see how the glass cycle does for everyday, but besides that... I need a single cycle that cleans everything! With Miele's crazy long cycles, everything runs at night.

I thought Miele tabs could not be split in two anymore?

I use about a teaspoon of Cascade or Finish in the small, uncovered cup and about a tablespoon in the main cup plus Jet Dry. The Miele installer told me to use any product I like; it doesn't matter, said he.

I still use Miele tabs, and cut them in 1/2 or thirds using kitchen shears (poultry shears?), and then store them in a plastic deli container with a lid.

It's just the two of us, but I started running the DW daily sometime last year, no matter how small the load. Less odor build-up during the warmer months (our DW is on an outside wall), and we don't have to wash our coffee maker parts by hand. With our "normal" loads, I generally use 1/2 a tab, and for heavy loads, I'll use a full tab or ~3/4's worth of a tab. For small/very small loads I'll use smaller tablet pieces and/or powder that's collected at the bottom of the container. Seems to be working for us.

My water is very soft (1.4 gpg). This means less detergent, right? I was looking at the Method tabs which come in "smarty" and "smarty plus," the latter claiming that it works in hard water and has a rinse aid. This makes me think I should avoid the "smarty plus" and stick to the other one (plus rinse aid in the normal container in the dishwasher)? Some of my glasses already have some etching :(

@Frenchman - If your water is very soft -- mine is and I lost a whole set of tumblers -- I'd go with 1/2 Method and the occasional Quantum or Ecover. Just the regular method tabs. Donate the Cascade.

One trick if you live in a cold climate, regardless of what brand of DW or of DW soap: Start the hot water going in your kitchen sink before turning on the DW. If the DW water is too cold, the soap doesn't break down as well or as quickly. This is even true for DWs with internal heaters. When I started this practice (in winter) of running the kitchen sink faucet for a few seconds until the water ran hot (I live in a cold climate, and in winter, the initial water temp out of the faucet will be in the high 30's), my dishes were noticeably cleaner and etch-free.

My dishwasher, like many Mieles, has a cold water fill. That's so the china and crystal cycle operates at the right temperature. Running the hot water wouldn't make any difference as my DW has a heater.

I cut my miele tabs in half with a chef's knife. I too wanted a cycle that could do everything and not etch my glassware. The only way I was able to accomplish that was to use china and crystal on everything and pre-rinse the dirtier items (contrary to Miele instructions). I recently moved out of my house with the MIele DW and based on my experience won't buy another one. Replacing my current junky Whirlpool with a Bosch.

I wash my lead crystal (non cut - Riedel like) wine glasses using the china/crystal cycle as well as my dirty dishes and so far all comes out clean. I use a full tablet (miele/finish powerball) but my water is fairly hard. When I first moved in I washed 18 dozen stems using 1/2 miele tab and china/crystal cycle and had no issues. I have the newer Lumen model.

I did donate the Cascade. I bought a pack of Method tabs (cut them in two, what a pain!), and two other brands: eCover zero and something else I can't remember (something eco, which claims to have the smallest tabs ever, which is a downside because I don't think I can cut them in two!) to try them, and also some Miele rinse aid to use when I run out of the Jet Dry I have in the dispenser right now.

Rococogurl, my Miele is hooked to hot water. I haven't tested its temperature recently but it's not crazy hot. Changing that to a cold hookup would require a plumber's intervention.

FWIW, my previous dishwasher, the Fisher & Paykel dish drawer, despite all its flaws as far as the top drawer falling into disrepair, NEVER etched anything. I was using Trader Joe's powder too and the Cascade near the end (simply because TJ was out one day I needed detergent).

Soft water and a hot water hook up will raise the likelihood of etching. If you have and use a china/crystal setting in the dw then i suggest the cost to have the plumber redo it. i had to do that with my Optima. If there is no china/crystal setting then it doesn't matter -- but that setting is the one reason I bought the DW. It works very well for my wine glasses and the vintage stemware.

You can find out how hot the water is by running it for a while and sticking an instant read thermometer in the stream. Mine is about 125F f.ex. But that's above the 110-115 range for china/crystal. The machine has a heater so I think it's easier to have the cold water heated to the right temperature for that cycle.

I recently tried the Ecover Zero tabs. Someone sent me a few. Very nice result on the few I tried. Have just bought a box but don't have long term use comment as yet.

Yes, cutting the Method tabs is a bore. I usually do it when I open the bag. But I have found the results to be worth the work. And inexpensive.

Perhaps you will have no etching. i hope not. Cutting back on soap will help.

I too never had any etching with a plain old Maytag that I used for years. Within a short time of using the Miele every piece of glassware I put in it was etched.