I have no clue about the first (white) one, but if the pink one is a huge climber and if it flowers primarily in spring, it may be Belle of Portugal. If it is flowering now,it probably repeats and may be Susan Louise or some other Belle Portugaise hybrid.

I agree that the second one looks like a hybrid gigantea or climbing tea. What is the size of the flowers of the white one? If they are not large and the rose is a climber / rambler maybe it is some hybrid Wichurana (Alberic Barbier is a wild wild guess)? Maybe if you provided more detail about size, growth and blooming habit it would help narrowing down the search.

Thank you so much roseseek. It is not the "Belle of Portugal", that rose is a bit bigger and as you said it does not flowers right now. These are indeed recent photos in an uncommon blooming season here, since we have had unusually mild weather. but also this rose looks a bit different in summer (it lacks some yellow). My fried has said that might be related to belle of Portugal, in fact one of its parents: "Souvenir de mme Leonie Viennot", could it be? ...The first rose here he, said it is "Alberic barbier" almost sure, but I've seen very diferent blooms in the internet, so that's why I came here for a 2nd opinion :)

A photo from last May:

nickdagreek thank you so much for the help, the size of the white one is 4.5-5 cm ..it is a small rose. It is a vigorous climber with dark leaves and reddish small thorns.

You're welcome. The foliage looks more "Tea-like" to me than Wichurana, which would be the lineage of Alberic Barbier or any of its types. Of course it could be Souvenir de Madame Léonie Viennot. Closer, sharper images would help make that determination.

Well, as I said, I can't really pinpoint the second one but it sure is a hybrid gigantea or a related climbing Tea. The guess I made for the first one just happens to match your friend's opinion but we both might be wrong. More info is needed like are they (mostly) once bloomers, pics of the thorns, are they scented, size of leaflets etc. Alberic Barbier (in commerce), quite a common rose in Europe, will easily turn from cream-yellowish to white given enough sun so don't get confused by the yellow looking pictures in HMF. There might well be a different 'AB' in commerce in the States so that is a factor to consider.

Knowing what roses are/were common in the particular area often helps a lot and for this you will have to seek the assistance of local knowledge.

roseseek, there is also an historic reference to this, since it seems that "Souvenir de Madame Léonie Viennot" was a very popular rose in this country long time ago...but not anymore. also other historic references puts this rose in Lisbon, it was present in the botanical gardens in early 20th century. But can be any other hybrid....

Kim, my reference to Wichurana was for the first, white rose. Doesn't it look like a Wich to you?

nikthegreek, thank you. I can make some better photos and more detail, there were some good blooms days ago in the white one... but we have had lots of rain now..so I will see how it looks like. and yes I have seen very confusing photos for "AB"...the blooms I took were almost scent less, at least for me

Sorry about that, Nik. Just a bit of confusion resulting from a large, wonderful Mexican lunch followed by playing a piece of furniture for four, small dogs who are piled on me to share warmth on a blustery, chilly, rainy Sunday afternoon. What a lovely nap! Yes, the foliage, prickles, stems and flower shape do look like a Wich. hybrid.

the white one has a very beautiful opening form, cream white to pale yellow. It has redish thorns.

Here is photo of a cutting I took from the white one...foliage dark green and small. Some canes can be very pricky...

Could the first one be Alberic Barbier? At my house there are usually a couple flowers on it any time of year, not just during the spring bloom.

Another lesser known Wich hybrid to consider would be Aviateur Bleriot. I read it was quite popular in France.

My first thought on the first rose was 'Alberic Barbier', though I believe mine usually has larger blooms than describe here: closer to 7cm. AB can have a good fall flush if it has a hot summer followed by a long mild autumn. My impression is that AB's foliage is darker and more pointed than that shown here, but I could simply be wrong, or there be a degree of normal variability to explain the difference. It's a lax-growing variety that can get big. How prosperous is your plant: well fed or starved and struggling?

The second rose certainly looks like it could be 'Souv. de Mme. Leonie Viennot'. Mine is a rampant climber with luxuriant, large, drooping leaves that mildew in the summer. My plant lives up to Mme. Leonie's reputation as a once bloomer, but at the moment, so odd is our weather this year, it has a couple of flowers opening. But only a couple. It has never rebloomed in the decade I've had it.

Thank you Melissa. The leaves on the first one are actually much darker than it appears in the photo (it's not a good one). it's not fed but it's on a fertile land for over 3 decades at least and it's huge, it covers more than 10 meters of length....The blooms in spring are bigger can easily reach 7 cms.

Thank you Mike Reisman, it looks much better now. The foto is taken from a certain distance since this rose is out of reach because it was out grown by wild raspberry plants and is now growing among them. Hope the photo now can help giving a better clue about its ID.

The white ones are so creamy! Could they be Aimee Vibert or are they too large for that?

#1: 'Alberic Barbier'

Thanks, Paul. As you know, it's often very difficult to identify things which aren't happy where you are.

Aimee Vibert would have pink buds; Alberic Barbier would have pale yellow ones.

Also AB would have darker foliage, lax, rope-like canes, and a light apple-like scent, I think. The great length it has covered sounds right for what I've seen of AB.

My immediate response to the first photos was AB, but I had forgotten it could be so prickly, and I don't remember red prickles - none of which means it doesn't have them, just that I have a poor memory!

Hi Guys Thank you for all the help. We are almost sure (me and my friend) that the white one is Alberic Barbier, please remember that the blooms were cut off and probably wilting fast in this photo. Also the white one has pale yellow buds, that fade fast to white. Here are some new fotos:

Hope these photos can clarify the ID of the first rose. As for the 2nd pink one, we still dont know...

I sometimes forget what a beauty 'Alberic Barbier' is, even with it growing in the garden. Those photos are luscious.

Have you definitely rejected 'Souv. de Mme. Leonie Viennot' as an ID for the second rose? When was that photo of the original post taken, in the spring or in fall? Because it looks like her, but, SdMLV doesn't rebloom. Possibly I just am not familiar with enough climbing Teas and Giganteas.

Melissa thank you for your comment, I actually didn't hear about "Alberic Barbier" before my friend give it as a possible ID for this rose. The only think I knew was that the blooms we saw were amazing, color and shape...and I took cuttings right there because I had to have that rose. I hope the cuttings root fast cause I need this rose in my garden, really beautiful.

The best bet for second rose is still 'Souv. de Mme. Leonie Viennot' , the photos I first post in here were taken about the same day as the post was made, so 10 days ago. And the Rose is still in flower in late December, we are having a very mild winter and lots of rain, so many roses here are having an abnormal blooming season. Here is a bloom of this 2nd rose I cut today:

Will it help? or just add more discussion?

Perhaps both. You're getting RAIN!? Lucky you!

You may have already discovered that 'Alberic Barbier' is very easy to root.

Nickthegreek, we don't know if this rose has done the same in previous years or is just reblooming because of the unusual mild weather. And yes, I also got ambiguous information about whether it is remontant or not.. the only thing I know is that the blooms are much less than those we saw in Summer this year.

Melissa the cuttings are looking good :) hope I will get some new 'Alberic Barbier' soon! :)