Texas_Gem -- date rape song??? Isn't that a bit harsh just because you don't like the song?

Texas gem....thats one of my favorites. I have often heard it refered to as a date rape song though. I don't understand why. The song is about a young woman who wants to stay but seems to have a curfew or something and a man who wants her to stay and spend more time with him. Is it the "what's in this drink" line that lends itself to the rape theory? Odd interpretation.

I also notice that people who refer to the song as a date rape song don't like "I saw mommy kissing Santa claus" because it promotes children witnessing what amounts to adultery (in the childs eyes anyway) or "Santa baby" because it makes all women look like shallow gold diggers. Again, odd and intense interpretations of some of my faves but to each their own I suppose. I can't explain why the songs on my list are there, I just hate them so much. Interesting.

Well, T.G., it's definitely of the liquor is quicker era and mode of courtship, but it never does get to the point where the wolf gets his prey and you can decide for yourself if she stayed or went. And if she didn't want to stay, she'd say, "Back off buster! I'm out of here!" and go, with or without the coat. The point is that she'd rather stay and canoodle than go home in the cold, but she's worried about what people with think and say if she does, and knows that people are waiting for her, not saying she's being forced into doing something she doesn't want to.

I'll go along with seduction (obvious), but stop short of date rape, even though he's a terrible lech.

The one I hear most but doesn't grate is Jingle Bell Rock. I could easily do without all the bad versions of Jingle Bells and Deck the Halls which seem to be arranged by the people who bring you spritely elevator music.

We have a local radio station that went to 100% Christmas music way before Thanksgiving, in early Nov. For that simple fact, I won't listen to that station again until after the holiday. 7 weeks of Christmas music, really? Crazy. You'd think their advertisers would realize that a large number of the audience won't hear any of their ads.

Imagine the repetition in their playlist!

Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree by Brenda Lee is a great contender for one of the songs which grates on my nerves. Holly jolly humbug!

On the other hand I love Dan Fogelberg's "Same Old Lang Syne". I am not really sure why it is even listed as Christmas music nor why I like it so much.

I don't like Christmas much but I do like a few things like the music and the lights. The only song that grates on me is Nat King Cole " Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire"... hate that one and it is played over and over and over. I love " The Little Drummer Boy".. It reminds me of my grandmother. I have fond memories of a John Fahey acoustic Christmas album my father liked to put on.

I dislike the chipmunks singing!

I like them all....even Grandma got run over by a reindeer. LOL! My rant is when the radio stations start playing them 24 -7 starting NOVEMBER 1st.

The Barnes and Noble TV ad with Tony Bennett and Lady Gaga doing Baby It's Cold Outside is just wonderful!

The Carpenters

Burl Ives

Most novelty songs which I've heard for decades and decades!!!

Here's what I do like:

Pandora Radio's "Peaceful Holidays Radio" It's mostly instrumental and very beautiful, peaceful music. THAT I like!

I dislike Elvis' Blue Christmas, and whatever jazzed up version of church song I heard yesterday. I've been trying to put it out of my mind. I have them separated into solemn joy songs (like O Holy Night) and fun Christmas songs. O Holy Night shouldn't be jazzed up, for instance. Grandma gettin' run over by reindeer or buying shoes when you're poor for something dying aren't solemn joy or fun, so those are a no. I love many songs though.

Warming up to “Baby It’s Cold Outside”: What my mother taught me about the guy who wrote the “date-rape” Christmas song

From the comments on this article.."bookworm33 1 hour ago

It
never occurred to the author of this article to actually watch the film
that "Baby, It's Cold Outside" was written for? "Neptune's Daughter" is
a romantic comedy from 1949 that starred two comedians - Red Skelton
and Betty Garrett - and Esther Williams and Ricardo Montalban (no
strangers to comedies themselves). All four sang the original song in
the film, Ricardo trying to convince Esther to stay, and Betty trying to
convince Red to stay, in the midst of a hilarious case of mistaken
identity. It's absolutely impossible to watch the original version and
imagine anything "rapey" about it.LikeReplyLost in Berlin 1 hour ago

@bookworm33 You're right, context is everything. There's a lot of projection taking place among the critics of this harmless song.

BTW,
it should be clear from the article that the author does NOT believe
the song is "rapey," but rather that she is providing some biographical
and autobiographical content to explain its context to those confused
souls who do. (If you read the entire article, you'll also learn that
the song was a personal one that Loesser wrote with his wife, and it was
not written "for" any film or any other purpose.)"

The original...

I don't listen to radio in the car much anymore but DH and I were driving over the weekend and I wanted to listen to Christmas music so we put on the station that plays Christmas music for 8 weeks. In a very short time frame they played the same songs but by different artists.....why? It didn't make sense to me.

I had to listen to this same station for years at work. The worst song for me was the Mr Grinch song..."you're a mean one Mr. Grinch." I would cringe when it came on. Another one is I Want a Hippopotomus for Christmas.

I love the classics like Christmas Song, White Christmas, Jingle Bell Rock but probably my favorite is Merry Christmas Darling by The Carpenters....not sure why but I never tire of hearing it.

I dislike (hate is simply too strong) any new adaptions of my old favorites & IMO, you can't beat Bing Cosby! Especially Holly Jolly Christmas & Frost the Snowman!!!

I like Christmas music, but I never listen to the radio. If you don't like what they play why don't you get some CD's to listen to? I don't even do that. but have a lot of them here if I wanted to play them.

Sue

Gosh, Baby It's Cold Outside considered a date rape song? That concept never occurred to me at all. I just always considered it a cutesy, lighthearted song.

I love Little Drummer Boy and like most of the silly little songs out there but my least favourite of the traditional Christmas carols is Silent Night. I have never liked that song. I didn't like learning it in school and I don't like listening to it now.

My problem isn't the traditional music, which I really love - it's that there aren't very many tunes in the portfolio, and you can only take them so many times by so many different people, over and over and over again, for two months.

Country Western artists are nearly always my least favorite genre (with a few exceptions) - they can't sustain a note, sing as though they aren't sure what the next word/note is, refuse to pronounce the words correctly, and sing through their nose and from the back of their throat just to make it even harder to listen to......

I pretty much love all Christmas music. I'll admit some of the remakes do get on my nerves unless the second singer changes the tune or does something to make it really special.

For a few spread-out hours, I'm fine with it. It's the repetition that kills it for me.

There's no sub-set style of songs I can take for days or weeks on end with no variety, anything can get boring and annoying fast.

(Objecting to the innocently told story in the lyrics of a song like Baby It's Cold Outside is silly)

I had no idea my answer would generate such a visceral response from so many.

To answer your question Amylou- yes, the whats in this drink alludes to drugging a drink but more than that, the entire premise of the song is her saying no over and over and him being pushy.

Most women who have been victims of date rape have had similar stories. They don't outright fight him off because they could get seriously hurt but its generally a "he won't take no for an answer."

There has been a big movement in the past decade or so that no means no, trying to teach young men to stop when a woman says no. I'll admit some of it is surely a generational difference, as some would simply ascribe it to boys will be boys while others will say boys should learn that it is unacceptable behavior.

It has gotten to the point I don't like listening to any Christmas music. Mannheim Steamroller used to be enjoyable, but then they wore they grooves out of that style, too.

TG, some of us have responded to your comment because we disagree with your interpretation. THIS IS THE VERSION that introduced me to the clever song.

It's a real stretch to call it the date rape song, I think.

I understand that rhizo, AmyLou asked why I considered it that so I was clarifying for her why.

I'm not alone on these feelings either, only after realizing what the lyrics were saying did I do an internet search to see if I was crazy and no, I'm not. PLENTY of people also interpret it that way.

There is no right or wrong, its just my opinion. You are certainly entitled to yours.

Texas... nope, you are not alone.

T.G., thanks for explaining. I fully support your right to your opinion and to be able to express it here.

I wouldn't have gotten that because generally rape drugs that are slipped into drinks aren't noticeable. The video Don_SoCal posted acted out exactly the picture in my head from the lyrics, including the part where she leaves, but it has more sitting and yielding, and the "what's in this drink?" refers to it being unpleasant (as in straight whiskey) rather than suspicious (as in added drugs).

In reality, unfortunately, no doesn't always mean no. Remember that Bobby Darin, Sandra Dee movie where she's accidentally given a dog training book as a guide for new brides (If a Man Answers)? And it works? I know a lot of women who can't even train a puppy not to jump on them because they're constitutionally incapable of sounding like they mean it when they say no. They can't stop their children from doing awful things because they can't say no and mean it. In my youth, I've been drunk and dealing with a drunk guy, and perfectly able to communicate no. In a lot of date rape cases, the guy really thought she said yes. There's no doubt when I say yes or no, and in a case of ambiguity, like in the song, I'd really mean maybe with yes being a clear possibility.

While it's true that we hold the standard for men that they should recognize that drunk means no, that pushing them weakly means no, and that whispers of negation mean no, and that if it's at all unclear they should ask for clear permission or disengage, it would be a lot better if we'd train our girls to have backbones and be able to say no clearly and definitively in a way that even an altered man will understand, rather than sanitizing literature and music.

I agree with many of the songs listed, the Christmas Shoes is so sad I think it's awful...I don't mind Dean Martin's Baby It's Cold Outside...I see how today many people might see it as a date rape song, being he is encouraging her to drink. But back when Dean Martin sang it in the 60's and I was a teenager I figured, right or wrong, that the couple in the song were already sleeping together. Today it would clearly be taken as a woman saying no to a guy who is pressuring her.

A couple of years ago, back here is ND, one of the Canadian stations played Christmas songs from around the world--and it was amazing and so good. Some were in English, but many were in their native language Some just instruments, and I loved one with the steel drums. Wish I could find the station again. Thanks Canada!

thumbs down for anything Mariah Carey, and chipmunks. Not in love with country Christmas songs either.

@socks. I searched and added Peaceful Holidays in Pandora and it is nice. I think I also have a Christmas Jazz station but it is sooo mellow it wouldn't take long for someone to fall asleep. Since I don't go dancing, I do enjoy hip hop or "dancey" type holiday music, even if I'm just twirling around my kitchen island.

OMG, I was in Home Depot the other day listening to the absolute saddest Christmas song I have ever heard. What were they thinking when they added that to the Christmas track? I had never heard it before but it was apparently about an orphan boy who only wanted a Mommy for Christmas. I was in Goodwill last year and heard another similar weepy song like that about someone dying close to Christmas.

Anyone know who Landau Eugene Murphy, Jr., is? He won America's Got Talent a couple of years ago. The video of him singing Baby It's Cold Outside with Lara Johnston is one of our favorites.

That was cool, Lindsey. It's a shame that song has taken on a dark connotation to some people. I used to work at a domestic violence agency, but to me the song, written during WWII, is lighthearted and fun.

The female doesn't sound to me like she really wants to go. She says, "I oughta say no, no, no" and assorted other half-hearted protests. It reminds me of situations when I was younger and being urged in a bantering manner not to cut the night short.

I agree, Alisande. I have heard Baby It's Cold Outside so many times by so many different singers, but I have never once thought of it as a "date rape song."

OK, what does everyone think of this version?

Okay, that's creepy. Many of the lyrics are about reputation and gossip and the whole yes/no, touch a hand, etc. It's meant to be a sexy song. The singing is excellent, the production is beautiful and I thought the kids were great, but it's not appropriate for a couple of twelve year olds.

Ditto Plllog. I kept hoping they'd turn into Idina and Michael.

For me there are probably a couple dozen or so Christmas songs that I enjoy the first few times I hear them in a given year. Many others though annoy and grate from the first note. It all just so unrelenting that usually long before Christmas arrives, I'm sick to death of all of them.

The worst part for me is it seems to me that so many places are playing the songs out of a cynical desperation to convince shoppers to buy. more. stuff.

A restaurant that some co-workers and I go to for lunch plays Christmas songs all December. Last year at that restaurant when "Little Drummer Boy" came on, one co-worker exclaimed "Darn it". He subsequently explained that his family had a bet going where the last one to hear "Little Drummer Boy" would win the bet.

To me there's a big difference between what most call Christmas music and what really is Christmas music. Unless it's about Christ, it's just winter season music to me.
I rarely listen to the radio in my car. I plug in my iPod so I can chose what to listen to.

Tony Bennett and Lady Gaga.

https://youtu.be/k04K8mND5GU

justgotabme- MANY people don't celebrate the religious Christmas, I don't think it makes secular Christmas music any less Christmasy. Christmas to you means celebrating the birth of Christ, to untold millions, both before and AFTER Christians took over a pagan holiday, they simply celebrate it as a time of family and togetherness.

Plllog- I agree, even though they changed the lyrics, that was creepy with kids.

I agree with those who get tired of the same old songs over and over, but do feel that some of those songs are absolutely wonderful. And I get a kick out of hearing all of the many renditions (though I may not like a bunch of them).

A friend sent me THIS cute youtube video several years ago as a greeting. It always makes me smile. It's the Drifters' version of White Christmas, but so cute.

That conspiracy theory about the song "Baby it's Cold" is one of the stupidest things I've heard in a long time! Right up there with the story I hear about the suspicious white bag in the middle of the street said to have been planted by ISIS turns out to be a bag full of Burger King fast food trash! HAHA! If you search the internet, you can pretty much find anything YOU WANT to find. I guess whoever came up with that date rape theory has never been a young person on a date and in lust/love and didn't want to leave but Mom and Dad have your curfew set at 10 pm. I think I've heard it all now...someone has their head in the gutter!

Though I've liked the "Baby, it's cold outside" song for many years ... I've long felt somewhat uncomfortable about the prolonged persistence of the guy ... who doesn't seem to understand a(n even half-hearted) "No".

Isn't "No" ... supposed to mean ... "No"?

It seems to me that, as a youth, I was supposed to respect a young woman enough that I wouldn't want to have her wake the next day to be smitten with deep regret ... or much worse.

I'm sitting here thinking that that may be related to the lifestyle that many of us choose, that I'm to love my neighbour as myself ... and not abuse her/him. Ever.

By the way ... did any of those of you who turned the radio/TV station off ...

... contact them to tell them that you'd done so?

... (and the advertisers)?

ole joyfuelled

My radio dial is set to the 24/7 Christmas music station. I love Christmas music but don't listen enough to get tired of the repetitiveness. O Holy Night, with John Berry has been my fav since he released his version.

Since I've never been raped, I don't feel qualified to comment on the "Baby It's Cold Outside".

Re Baby it's Cold Outside....to me it's about two people who are in love and don't want to say goodnight. It's mutual.....she doesn't want to leave him and he doesn't want her to go. She's not in the least creeped out by the guy and desperately trying to get away. It's representative of the kind of lovey dovey talk young lovers engage in....1940's style.

There is nothing in the lyrics (I suggest you google them) that says anything about anyone engaging in the act of s*x. Last time I checked, begging someone to not go home wasn't rape. *SMH*

My guaranteed station-changer songs are...

Christmas Shoes, anything Chipmunks, Santa Baby

I play the tenor recorder and do so at the VA between appointments in the large entrance foyer. I have been doing this for 4 years now and get a good reception. As I do every year I will be playing Christmas music when I go next week and any suggestions would be nice. I have been reminded of quite a few by this thread. I will have to make a list so I can keep track.

Don, I have linked to free music for flutes. I don't know about recorder, but it seems like they're the same key?

Greensleeves

O come, O come Emmanuel

I wonder as I wander

Here we come a-wassailing

These are the songs I like to play when the boy and I are fiddling around at home. Plus, they sound good on recorder. In my head. We've tried a couple of flute duets, but they're not complex enough, and so, we're dissatisfied and give up. Instead, we pick up the book and he'll play, then I play, then he plays... flute tootin'!

I guess I was right! There are videos all over YouTube with recorder and Greensleeves. May be cliché at this point?

tenor recorder playing Greensleeves