Full frame replacement without removing interior trim?

8 years ago

Is it common to do a full frame replacement from the outside while leaving the interior trim intact? I found the a description of this "hybrid" method as follows:
"For the remaining windows on the house, we used a hybrid method. First the outside molding, the sashes, the balance system and the jambs were removed. (The inside casing and stool were left in place.) The replacement windows (from Lowes) were dimensioned to fit fairly snugly to the window rough framing.
The jambs of the new replacement windows went in tight against the inside casing and stool. After foaming, we put the outside molding back on. The result was no loss of glass area (some windows actually showed a gain.) and the look is just as good or better than that of the old windows."
I have a 1940s cynderblock and brick home and I do not want to do an insert replacement due to the the protruding, frame-in-frame look and also do not want to do a traditional full frame frame replacement the disturbs the interior trim. Any comments on this hybrid method? Is this something a good contractor will know how to do?

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johnhaney

3 years ago

@goehring19, what did you end up doing for your window installation project? I have a similar situation with my 140 year old victorian house. My contractor says he can stall new windows (w/flange) without disturbing the fancy interior trim. I see this as possible but only if the jambs are exactly the right depth.

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Comments (6)

PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
8 years ago
I would not, personally, refer to that as a full tear out. Full tear out means just that, full tear out, to me. What you are referring to is just a modified insert in my opinion and most good installers should know how to get that done.
goehring19
Original Author
8 years ago
It's an old window with pulleys and weights behind the jambs. There is a space for the weights and then there seems to be another wood frame embedded in the blocks. The jambs frame the sashes and an outer frame frames the weight pockets and the jambs. It may be only this outer frame that is attached to the masonry. So you think it is possible to remove the brickmold and jambs while leaving the stool and interior molding in place, and use a full frame replacement (with a full depth jamb and not a 3 1/4 inch jamb)? The interior trim may be nailed to the outer frame and this is what would make this possible. But I am not sure how this could be anything other than a hack job. I have only found this one mention of it anywhere. Thanks for any comments!
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Just pull the sashes; you need to do that anyway to put in the primary sash weatherstripping since you're planning on installing airtight storms. I don't know if you have pulleys (which complicate the process). You only have to take off one side of the interior jamb trim and a parting bead. Be patient and you can get the trim off with very little risk of breakage. Parting beads are a bit trickier because they smaller, but in some ways they are intended as sacrificial elements. I get about 75% out intact. You can see where someone prior to 1880 removed my original sashes and substituted the current two over twos. There are a few broken, but reinstalled, parting beads and little discrete prying marks on every window. Glazing on the flat, or on a slated easel, is so much easier than trying to do it in situ. You'd be able to get the compound out and replaced with a proper back bedding very easily. HTH, L.
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The answer to your question depends on where you are financially and what the house is like. I'm thinking this is not a colonial mansion in Moorestown, NJ. The vinyl siding gave it away. With that in mind, there is no way I would spend that much money on those particular windows. I would replace the rotted parts of the sills. This is most likely only the outer 2 inches or so, where moisture has been trapped under the ext trim. I would also replace the brickmolding (ext trim). I would then have these openings wrapped with the aluminum of your color choice, making sure that that is sealed properly, and also installed behind whatever drip cap is above. What I'm describing is not expensive work, perhaps app $200 per opening, including material. It is also not time consuming work, and fairly straight forward. I would then choose a quality replacement window with an insert installation, preserving all your interior trim. I would think you could have all this done for less than $1k per window or so. It could be argued that the technically correct way to do this right is to gut the openings and go with full frame methods, all new everything in and out. But replacement windows are called replacement windows for a reason. It is not always desirable to replace everything. For instance, if those wood windows of yours have a rope and weight balance system, then there is a large weight pocket behind the jambs. It's just not worth it to take all that apart unless you're wealthy or doing it yourself. Just get the best window you can. I suggest fiberglass framed so that you won't lose glass space. If that doesn't bother you, high end vinyl will work as well. But don't skimp on the window. If you do, you will be back in the same boat in less than 10 years. One more thing. The aluminum wrap on the outside can be bent in such a way to have a brickmold profile. This is much more professional and attractive, and shouldn't cost any extra if you have true professionals doing the work. Good luck!
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oberon476
3 years ago
Curious why you are wanting to change the windows on a 140 year old Victorian house?
millworkman
3 years ago
The trim is more than likely attached to the window frame (or at the very least should have been), so I don't see how he figures he can accomplish that. Also I would ask the same question as oberon476....................
PRO
MGBK inc
2 years ago
This is possible. You would likely have to keep the same style window. (DH for DH, CM forCM etc). The window sizes would have to be precise and well calculated. Reason being is every window frame is a bit different. You would need to be precise to be certain the interior trim meets the new window Jambs. Odds are your reveal where the casing meets the window jamb might be slightly different on the sides compared to the head and sill. With the old windows you likely had an even reveal all the way around. You probably never would have noticed. Im interested in seeing a photo from the exterior and the interior to see how it came out. Props to your installer for accomplishing this, Assuming no issues arise.

Full frame replacement without removing interior trim?

johnhaney

Comments (6)

Windows on Washington Ltd

goehring19
Original Author

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Full frame replacement without removing interior trim?

johnhaney

Comments (6)

Windows on Washington Ltd

goehring19Original Author

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goehring19
Original Author