It's not showing on the main page that I answered this post, even though I did yesterday. I'll repost in two parts (probably too long) hoping it shows up this time

- Grainlady

There is an abundance of information on the subject when you start to study it. In fact, it is quite an interesting subject when you get into it.

What we think of as a tasty broth/stock to enhance the flavors of sauces, vegetables, and soups, is really much more than that. So when you see someone cooking/poaching a few boneless chicken breasts for broth/stock, that's one time they're doing it wrong.

I look at broth (especially bone broth) as a supplement to my diet - a gelatin-rich food that helps just about everywhere in the body. These are foods that have all but disappeared from the modern dinner table and we are less healthy for it.

Here's information according to "Nourishing Broth" by Sally Fallon Morell and Kaayla T. Daniel, PhD, CCN. I would suggest it for further reading on the subject.

-You want bones that have lots of cartilage along with those small amounts of meat for flavor. Meat contains only about 1% by weight of collagen, while bones contain about 20%. Skin - like chicken skin (think schmaltz) and pig skin (think pork rinds), contains up to 30%. Veal knuckles contain up to 40%. What this means is when making chicken stock include the backs, wings, and necks. For beef and veal stock, use cartilage-rich knuckles or oxtail (tailbones) along with more cartilage-rich meaty bones like short ribs or shanks.

-To ensure plenty of gelatin - include feet -- chicken feet (and heads also! - although I've never used the head - even when we raised our own chickens). For beef include calves' feet. For pork broth use split pig's foot (fresh, not smoked). You can add a split pig's foot to any kind of broth to increase the gelatin.

-Some ingredients yield gelatin more than others, some add flavor and color. Adding vinegar helps extract minerals from the bones as well as the vegetables you add. Any kind of vinegar can be used.

-You will get better gel using pasture-raised chickens than conventional (battery-raised) OR simply organic chicken. Pasture-raised will also be more nutritious.

-Start with a whole chicken, neck, wings, also feet and head (if available). I avoid using gizzards/livers. You can also use 3-4 pounds of bony chicken parts such as necks, backs, and wings - WITH skin on, plus feet and head or split pig's foot. Picked carcasses will also work, and add some feet/head or split pig's foot. For beef: 7-pounds total beef (4-pounds cartilage-rich bones, such as tail and knuckles, and 3 pounds meaty bones, such as short ribs or shank).

-Problem.... Not enough bones and too much water. The water should just cover the bones. Cover with cold water.

-Usually chicken feet are already dressed, but you may need to dress them yourself. If that information is needed, I'll be happy to post it.

-You can make several pots of stock from one batch of bones. I like to make a Continuous Slow Cooker Broth using back/neck/wings (occasionally feet when I can find them), or even a whole small chicken, which yields about 1 quart of broth per day for up to a week. You replace an equivalent of water with the amount of broth removed each day. If we could get everyone (young and old) into drink broth, instead of a lot of other things we tend to consume in the Standard American Diet, we'd see our ability to focus improve, lower amounts of illness, better bones/teeth/hair, better digestion, even less wrinkles.... ;-) I attribute lots of broth in my diet to my "Energizer Bunny" tendencies.

part II

-I make sure all vegetables are well-washed, especially if I'm using parings/trimmings. Recent reading indicates carrot peelings can be bitter, so I lightly scrub carrots with a stainless steel scrub pad, which remove the bitter part without removing as much of the peel as when using a potato peeler/paring knife, which is where the highest concentration of minerals are located - in the peel and just below the surface of the peel - not the core of the carrot. I've used clean root-ends of cut onions, as well as the skins, but that's a choice thing. That's how I learned when I was making vegetable stock when I was Macrobiotic. That could be an Asian thing, I'm not sure. Yellow onions help make a golden broth. Carrots also make a golden broth - use parsnips, instead of carrots, if you want clear broth.

-Tip: Aromatics (vegetables and herbs) should be added after the initial skimming process since they tend to rise to the surface making it hard to skim. Aromatics not only add flavor, but also color and lots of minerals.

-Veg that is limp and older than what you might normally use can be used in a stock pot. Avoid moldy, bruised, soft parts - or anything you deem undesirable. It's your stock - make it how you like.

-Easy on the cruciferous veg because it can give a strong flavor to the broth.

-Don't forget peppercorns. "Experts" say to use the softer green or white peppercorns, but the harder black peppercorns will soften up in the broth and also add flavor - softer green and white peppercorns can be crushed before adding to the stockpot. Once again, you may want to wait to add them until after the initial skimming since they tend to float.

-Don't add salt if you are reducing the liquid by quite a bit or it might have too high a concentration of salt.

-I avoid tap water, but then, we only use distilled water for drinking and cooking (and have for 30-years). As your stock reduces, so do the chemicals in the tap water - fluoride, chloramine, etc. In fact, it's suggested you only boil tap water once in your kettle, and avoid reheating water. The heat concentrates certain chemicals from the tap water.

-Grainlady

I also make a lot of chicken stock, as I raise chickens and always have backs, necks, wing tips, etc.

Like Grainlady, I use all the bits and pieces of vegetables that I've saved, I have a bag in the freezer for vegetable scraps. I use onion peels and root ends, the leaves and trimmed ends from celery, the peels from carrots, the green part of the leeks. I do stay away from broccoli/cauliflower/cabbage/etc because they have a strong flavor that I can detect.

When I am ready to make stock I pull out a bag of "parts" or use the carcass from a roasted chicken plus some parts, dump in my vegetable bag and add more if I think it needs it and roast it all in my big Nesco roaster. When the chicken is nicely browned I add water, salt, peppercorns, bay leaves and a few sprigs of thyme from the herb garden. Chives are nice too, if you have them. Put the Nesco on 350F and simmer until it tastes good. That usually takes me 10 - 12 hours and provides me with a canner full of chicken stock. If you refrigerate it, it'll turn to chicken jello, but it melts if heated. You can also freeze it, but I don't.

I do approximately the same with beef bones and make beef stock, but I've never bothered to make vegetable stock, as I don't have a lot of vegetarians in my life, but I would if anyone I cared about and fed semi-regularly wanted it.

I've also made duck stock and turkey stock, but never pork stock. Hmmm. What would a person use pork stock for, other than gravy?

Annie

Not grainlady, but this thread inspired me to share:

FWIW, I used to make stocks w/ my meat & veg. trimmings, leftovers, etc., but over the years I've simplified my cooking to the point where now I make chicken/turkey stock w/ only the trimmings from the bird (necks, backs, skin, wingtips, etc.) & several bay leaves. I find this type of simple stock works w/ any dish w/o muddying up the flavours. All the veg. trimmings go to the compost heap now.

I often simmer this stock covered until it turns white & bones are soft (indicating high protein & mineral content?). Sometimes that means the pot goes in & out of the fridge for a couple of days & I add water as needed. It's basically aspic when it's done & it is very flavorful.

Anybody else aware of the 'bone broth' thing recently making the internet rounds? My sister sent me a link about it awhile back, & I was surprised to discover that I've (sort of) been ahead of the curve for some time now = J

This has gotten to be a big challenge - probably due to the length of my post. I posted this yesterday and thought I fixed it this morning, but only part 2 shows up. Here is the first part I posted, but I think I'll have to divide it as well, so I'll entitle it Part 1A and 1B. Sorry for the delayed response and mix up. -Grainlady

Part 1A

There is an abundance of information on the subject when you start to study it. In fact, it is quite an interesting subject when you get into it.

What we think of as a tasty broth/stock to enhance the flavors of sauces, vegetables, and soups, is really much more than that. So when you see someone cooking/poaching a few boneless chicken breasts for broth/stock, that's one time they're doing it wrong.

I look at broth (especially bone broth) as a supplement to my diet - a gelatin-rich food that helps just about everywhere in the body. These are foods that have all but disappeared from the modern dinner table and we are less healthy for it.

Here's information according to "Nourishing Broth" by Sally Fallon Morell and Kaayla T. Daniel, PhD, CCN. I would suggest it for further reading on the subject.

-You want bones that have lots of cartilage along with those small amounts of meat for flavor. Meat contains only about 1% by weight of collagen, while bones contain about 20%. Skin - like chicken skin (think schmaltz) and pig skin (think pork rinds), contains up to 30%. Veal knuckles contain up to 40%. What this means is when making chicken stock include the backs, wings, and necks. For beef and veal stock, use cartilage-rich knuckles or oxtail (tailbones) along with more cartilage-rich meaty bones like short ribs or shanks.

-To ensure plenty of gelatin - include feet -- chicken feet (and heads also! - although I've never used the head - even when we raised our own chickens). For beef include calves' feet. For pork broth use split pig's foot (fresh, not smoked). You can add a split pig's foot to any kind of broth to increase the gelatin.

-Some ingredients yield gelatin more than others, some add flavor and color. Adding vinegar helps extract minerals from the bones as well as the vegetables you add. Any kind of vinegar can be used.

-You will get better gel using pasture-raised chickens than conventional (battery-raised) OR simply organic chicken. Pasture-raised will also be more nutritious.

Part 1B

-Start with a whole chicken, neck, wings, also feet and head (if available). I avoid using gizzards/livers. You can also use 3-4 pounds of bony chicken parts such as necks, backs, and wings - WITH skin on, plus feet and head or split pig's foot. Picked carcasses will also work, and add some feet/head or split pig's foot. For beef: 7-pounds total beef (4-pounds cartilage-rich bones, such as tail and knuckles, and 3 pounds meaty bones, such as short ribs or shank).

-Problem.... Not enough bones and too much water. The water should just cover the bones. Cover with cold water.

-Usually chicken feet are already dressed, but you may need to dress them yourself. If that information is needed, I'll be happy to post it.

-You can make several pots of stock from one batch of bones. I like to make a Continuous Slow Cooker Broth using back/neck/wings (occasionally feet when I can find them), or even a whole small chicken, which yields about 1 quart of broth per day for up to a week. You replace an equivalent of water with the amount of broth removed each day. If we could get everyone (young and old) into drink broth, instead of a lot of other things we tend to consume in the Standard American Diet, we'd see our ability to focus improve, lower amounts of illness, better bones/teeth/hair, better digestion, even less wrinkles.... ;-) I attribute lots of broth in my diet to my "Energizer Bunny" tendencies.

"---Anybody else aware of the 'bone broth' thing recently making the internet rounds? ---"

I guess my method is unusual. I have not seen this done before. Take a look if you think bone broth has good health benefits.

1. I use the back of my cleaver to crack the bones in the middle. This way the good stuff inside the bones can get out into the broth.

2. I then use my pressure cooker to pressure steam the bones with NO WATER added. From one chicken, the bones (with some meat on the bones) will get me about half of a cup of pure intense broth. I save this for making really tasty recipes, such as risotto.

3. Then I add water to the bones and into the pressure cooker again. About another hour, I will have my broth about the same as regular broth.

4. By this time, all the cartilage will be completely melted and the end parts of the bones (condyle,
epicondyle , tubercle,) will be very soft and edible. I either just eat them or blend them into the broth and make a super healthy broth.

dcarch

dcarch7: About how long do you cook the bones without water?

About 45 minutes.

dcarch

Thanks, dcarch!

Thanks so much grainlady and anyone else who chimed in. A big help to me as I make a lot of stock and soups. Yum.