" It doesn't take much just to call the Realtor and ask permission to stop by the house"

Please do this. You probably will hear a "yes", and I expect there would be a good reason for a "no" -- e.g. the seller is in the process of clearing out junk and doesn't want people going over there until he is done (for instance someone might step on a stray rusty nail). It is still the seller's house until the sale closes.

I am so thankful it wasn't one of his prior girlfriends!

*******

LOL!!!

Oaktown

" It doesn't take much just to call the Realtor and ask permission to stop by the house"

Please do this. You probably will hear a "yes", and I expect there would be a good reason for a "no" -- e.g. the seller is in the process of clearing out junk and doesn't want people going over there until he is done (for instance someone might step on a stray rusty nail). It is still the seller's house until the sale closes.

*******

Dog in the yard...

Not in the OP's case, but in other cases where you think the owner isn't home, or has vacated already.

Your home for sale can become an attractive nuisance once you hang that shingle.

once attorney review is over, is it ok to wander around back there if he
is'nt living there? My friend and my folks would like to see.

Not without permission! It isn't your house until closing. Your friends and folks can wait until your son owns it. If they absolutely have to see it, stand on the sidewalk and look.

As you acknowledged, there are two sides to this. Some people think "no harm, no foul", others hate trespassers. The problem is that you don't know which camp the SELLERS fall into. They might not care ... but they MIGHT care. Don't piss them off.

And on top of that, your son's SO has politely asked you to step back. So back off.

Heck, when we were selling a 3 acre vacant lot FSBO (with a sign out front), people called and asked if it was ok to walk/drive around to take a closer look. I always said "no problem," but it's just common courtesy. It would be quite simple for you to do the same.

And I actually don't think GF's email response was out of line. It was direct and to the point, explained why she was concerned, and was devoid of accusations, name-calling or drama.

I think a good response on your end would be, "You have a good point. I was thinking it wouldn't matter because the seller isn't living there anymore, but I can see how if we surprised the seller that could upset him." Acknowledging that she has a good point, instead of just defending your actions, will go a long way to building a good relationship with her.

You were trespassing - no signs are needed and you don't need to be asked to leave. Not sure where you live, but if you did this in my neighborhood you might find yourself on the wrong end of a neighbor's loaded gun.

Baby mama has an issue re:control. Been there, done that! The only advice I can offer is, get used to it. You're, 'just' mom these days, she's the wife-to-be, and mother of his child. You don't need to back down from her, but too much assertiveness and you will alienate your son. He will either 'grow a backbone'~it took my son 4 marriages because he was too much of a sweetheart~or allow her complete control, which could quite possibly shut you out of his(and baby's~ that also happened!)lives. Be firm, remain calm, and let her 'win' this one. As one granmother to another, you have too much at stake over such an insignificant issue.

As a grandmother, I think it's important to not use the pejorative, confrontational and marginalizing term, "baby mama" every time you refer to your son's SO/mother of his children.

smdh

Quote: btw, if anybody is being helpful...once attorney review is over, is it ok to wander around back there if he is it living there? My friend and my folks would like to see.

Do not set foot on the grounds or in the house unless you get permission through the realtor. You can really set off a seller if you do not, and even though you may have a contract, any further agreements/arrangements can be jeopardized by any unwanted interaction. Please listen to the advice above.

Quote: Laws on trespass can vary, generally if there is not a NO Trespass sign it isn't really trespassing, as long as you leave if asked.

Where is this true?

Trespass is defined by the act of knowingly entering another person's property without permission.

You were lucky a neighbor didn't call the police on you.

A for sale sign in the front yard doesn't mean that everyone is free to walk around yard.

Personally, if I wanted to see the house or walk around the exterior, I would call the real estate agent.

It might be hard (or impossible) to be convicted of trespassing without there being signs or being explicitly told to get off their property, but it's still trespassing. Just because you get away with it doesn't make it right.

I would say this is another of those things that is somewhat cultural, regional, and class contingent. In my laid back midwestern university town old Victorian-era neighborhood where everyone knows everyone else's business - a for sale sign is going to arouse curiosity and yes you bet Ive sometimes looked around before deciding whether to call someone about the house. One time I saw one side of a garage that had not been covered with the same vinyl that the house and rest of garage had- the wood was quite rotted where I could see it, so that one quickly went in my reject file.

That does not mean opening doors or prowling around for extended periods of time or at odd hours when it might look suspicious - it just means walking around and perhaps peeking in windows only if it looks obviously vacated. IMHO this is no more "trespassing" than it would be if I was going door to door sticking political ads in the doors - Or if someone had a desk or motorcycle or car in their driveway with a for sale sign on it. I am there for a specific, narrowly defined purpose i.e. considering the purchase of an item for sale.

I would not do this in certain urban high-security areas where culturally people just keep to themselves more (not tomention have the high security stuff going on.) Certain suburban areas too are like this - you dont see anyone outside at all - they just get out of their cars in the garage and go in the house from there. Not that Id even be looking at those places anyway! I like my laid back n'hood.

And I agree with the thought that once the offer is made and youre in a business relationship, dont do anything to jump the gun. No measuring for curtains or planning the landscaping or repeatedly visiting with one flimsy excuse or another- with or without the realtor's OK. I think that sort of thing would be more of a nuisance than just one quick spontaneous look-see.

So go ahead - fire away. I've got my flame retardant asbestos suit on!

I do not think the GF was out of line, she just was not gracious. If you wish to show it to your friend and folks, I would also ask your son if that was okay with him first.

This: >>>"Just because you get away with it doesn't make it right."

Isn't this fundamentally about respect for the owner and his/her property?

I would add that whether a person is likely to get away with it probably is indeed impacted by "cultural, regional, and class" factors and sadly to say, sometimes the color of that person's skin. Just something to ponder.

tishtoshnm Zone 6/NM

I do not think the GF was out of line, she just was not gracious. If you wish to show it to your friend and folks, I would also ask your son if that was okay with him first.

****

The house isn't her son's yet to give said permission! The person to ask is the realtor, or ask the son to arrange a visit with the realtor.

IMHO this is no more "trespassing" than it would be if I was going door
to door sticking political ads in the doors - Or if someone had a desk
or motorcycle or car in their driveway with a for sale sign on it. I am
there for a specific, narrowly defined purpose i.e. considering the
purchase of an item for sale.

Walking up to a front door and knocking to deliver something is WAY different than wondering into the backyard and peeking in windows. If I want to talk to you about a political candidate but you didn't answer the door when I knocked, would you be okay with it if I wandered into your backyard to see if you might be sunbathing back there and didn't hear my knock? After all, I'm there for a specific, narrowly defined purpose.

And looking at an item that is displayed in the driveway is way different too. It's obviously put in a reasonably visible area so that you can look at it. If the car also had keys dangling in the ignition, would you take it for a test drive too? You're thinking of buying it, so there should be no problem with that.

Things visible from the sidewalk are generally considered more 'public' and therefore more leniency is given. Walking into a backyard or peering in windows is definitely more of an invasion. A 'For Sale' sign in the front yard is an invitation to call about it and schedule a visit, not an invitation to wander around the property.

Whether you think the house is vacant or not doesn't matter.

What if you're wrong?

What if the house is vacant but the owner happens to be there?

Would you feel awkward if you were caught? If so, then you know it's wrong to be there. You were just hoping to get away with it.

If the back door of a vacant house was left unlocked, would you let yourself in for a look around too? No harm no foul if nobody's home.

I dunno Greg. I wouldn't feel awkward at all if I "were caught" as you say.

Perhaps it is a regional thing like kasha said. I'd be just as likely to walk up and say hello to someone sitting on a front porch and ask about the property as I would walk to the top of a driveway to see what the backyard looked like. And if someone were sitting in the yard I'd wave and smile and say hello. In my experience people have always responded in kind. Maybe we are just more friendly around these parts.

No one said anything about peering in windows or opening doors.

As a Realtor and someone that sells our personal homes every year or so, You need to call the agent and ask permission to go over there and go in back. A For Sale sign does not give you the right to trespass. I've put my dogs in the back of my vacant house for a few hours when I had workers coming to work on my new house. I'd be pissed, if someone went back there, or left a gate open, so when I put them there they got out or bit someone. People that want to case a house to later burglarize it, often wander out back of homes that appear vacant. There is no way to acertain people's intentions.

The home is not yours until it closes and funds. Prior to that, you need to call the agent and get permission.

I think the bottom line is that the OP felt she had a reasonable right to be there because she holds the purse strings to a contract almost executed, and she doesn't have that entitlement.

That doesn't change if you're in small-town-apple-pie America or South Central.

My main concern when anyone takes these liberties with someone else's property is not fully appreciating the risks they put the owner at.

Junk in the yard, construction with nails and debris around, dogs etc. etc.

All dangers that can be mitigated if you call ahead and get permission or an appointment.

Go knock on your neighbor's door to say hello or give them brownies. Go WITH an agent or approval before you help yourself to a looksie at a house for sale.

Let's face it, you had an excuse before the age of cell phones, when you were cruising in your car and didn't want to wait to get home or to the nearest pay phone to contact the number on the signage.

Now? C'mon. Make the call. Err on the side of caution and at least try to do the right thing.

Now that you know better, do better.

gardener123,

All your examples are with you being in the front yard. Would you really not feel awkward if you let yourself into the backyard and were wandering around behind the shed and suddenly happened upon the owner who is doing some yard work back there? That's kind of hard to believe, but if that's the case then so be it. I just think you're in the minority.

And while the OP didn't mention peering in windows, kashka did and I was replying to her post. Nobody else mentioned opening doors, but I was just wondering where people drew the line. So going into a vacant house is going too far? Why is going into the backyard and poking around okay? Is peering in windows okay? What about going into a shed that's not locked? Is it okay to crawl under the house to look around at the foundation?

In my books, none of those are okay. All are trespassing.

I would like to add that if you want to have a general idea of what's in back, try Google Earth ;-)

Your point is well taken greg. You are representing the worst-case most-intrusive scenario. I am talking about a cursory overview to determine if pursuing the property is warranted.

If your son is old enough to father a child, and old enough to buy a house, he's also old enough to handle his own affairs. This is about his life and his personal relationships, not about a house seller and trespassing rules, Parents should butt out unless specifically asked to do something. No exceptions. Learning comes from experience and experience comes from making mistakes.

Just my opinion.

"I would like to add that if you want to have a general idea of what's in back, try Google Earth ;-)"

And see what it generally looked like two years ago? lol

Snidely, I usually ignore you, but sorry if I'd rather not let my son make a 6 figure mistake if I have the knowledge to help him avoid it. I have been with him in this house process all along so I didn't just butt into the process. The yard yes, the process no! He wouldn't have cared, she did. Quite frankly, since it's not her purchase anyway.. It's not up to her if I want to look in the yard. Son might not like me getting her mad, but it's actually not her right to forbid me.

regardless, she and I have emailed back and forth and we are ok. I will try to respect her point of view as we go forward. I'm done with the debate over how wrong it is or isn't to do what I did. I only responded now because I never want to,hear my son say....why didn't you tell me if you knew xyz...and have him end up in a financial hole...

I think if a liberty is taken now that the DIL has had a word, the relationship between the OP and her DIL might suffer.

So, after hearing all the reasons here why it's best to 'do the right thing', I'd be inclined to do the right thing.

Should the DIL and son also be consulted? Or should it just be between the agent and the OP? Would the DIL be upset if she found out that her MILs friends had been taken there?

ETA: It's good that everything between the two of you is okay again.

I'm glad all is good between you and your future DIL. I can't help but put myself in your position. You are helping buy the house where the girlfriend will live. Without you, it sounds like she and your son wouldn't be able to get this house. I think "thank you" is the appropriate response from her and I'm sorry that's not what you heard.

A simple phone call to get permission first to enter a property that is not hers or her son's as of yet and the girlfriend's response nor this whole post would probably have not been necessary.

Ha, I didn't take note of the person who started this thread. Aren't you the one who, when looking to get some HVAC work done, drove through your neighborhood and when an HVAC truck was spotted, you'd stop and ask the HVAC tech or the stranger who owned the house what work was being done and how much the project cost was?

You seem to like to make your own rules. Your comments that "I will try to respect her point of view as we go forward" and your notion about "Son might not like me getting her mad" suggest perhaps a bit too forward of an approach, some contempt on your part and that perhaps more problems can be expected in the future. Good luck to all, I think you'll do better stepping back and giving them both more wiggle room on this and I suspect other matters too.

yes snidely. I did knock on a neighbor's door. I found out their contractor had installed a system that clearly deficient in some way since they had condensation dripping out of their ductwork. I didn't use that contractor. btw, I wasn't driving through my neighborhood surreptitiously, I walk my dog daily. These are my neighbors! I believe it would go under the category of checking references...

It's amazing the neighborhood "intel" you can gather when you walk your dog!

You keep treating this deal as if the gf has no part of the deal. Even if her name isn't on the mortgage or whatever, she's still going to have some claim to it if she's living there with their child for any length of time and especially if any of her money goes towards the mortgage (or if her money goes towards bills so that his goes towards the mortgage). Plus, this is potentially going to be her home even if you don't think it will be her house.

Treating her as if she has nothing to do with this deal is wrong.

He wouldn't have cared, she did. Quite frankly, since it's not her
purchase anyway.. It's not up to her if I want to look in the yard.

That is very disrespectful.

Personally, I don't think there was anything rude about the note that she sent you. But if there was something rude, she probably had every reason to dish it back.

"He wouldn't have cared,"

Somebody sadly was not raised to respect the rights of others!

I think the question has been answered with several points of view. This board isn't mean for relationship analysis etc. So I think we can end this here. We have done a lot for the young couple and therefore the tone of her email bothered me. It's not so much the concept, but how it was delivered. I know she believes in communication and being direct (obviously) but I'm thinking she needs to pick her battles (not that this is a "battle"). Her email was respectful, but almost too formal. a little "hey, bf tell your mom that I would have been embarrassed etc.." or even just tell me like that rather than the "you cannot"... I would probably have felt bad rather than gotten defensive. Thanks to most of you for your insight :)

You're a good egg, cindywhitall!

Wow, the OP still doesn't get it.....

OP: "Horrible"? No. "Wrong"? Yes. It only becomes "horrible" when you spend time justifying it and stating that you'd do it again (I don't know that you stated this while glancing through the comments but somebody else stated that you did).

"Vacant" is irrelevant and most definitely not black and white, trust me. Every agent I know still knocks on the door of a vacant house before entering legally with a lockbox.

Also, FYI, you might want to reconsidering posting your illegal actions on a public forum. It's a small world.

As someone who is house sitting a "vacant" house currently on the market, yes I am at times amazed at what some buyers consider to be their rights when house hunting.

"Vacant" can mean lots of things. Please be assured that just because the owner's have moved their personal furniture and items from the home and by looking in the windows there doesn't "seem" to be anyone living there, you are assuming an awful lot! I am waiting for the day when I come down from the upper furnished rooms and find potential buyers sitting on the back deck trying it out. :>)

It does come down to respecting boundaries.

"Also, FYI, you might want to reconsidering posting your illegal actions on a public forum. It's a small world."

Yes indeed, especially since in this person's series of threads a few years ago when she was getting information to get HVAC work done, I seem to recall either she or someone else commented that her user name here is her real name. Maybe I have that wrong or am thinking of someone else.

If I remember the discussions at the time, there were various alternatives for upgrade work for which her state (maybe New Jersey?) offered rebates. As with this thread, she would ask a question but then would typically attempt to refute any comment that didn't agree with her view.

user names sometimes speak for themselves..."snide"ly. You might not like my thoughts or opinions, but I don't try to be intentionally snide. Have a lovely day, I will.

It's just a username, nothing else.

I've had it since my own early days on the internet when someone suggested I use the name of a cartoon character for email and other purposes where the name would be visible to the public. I followed that advice.

Snidely Whiplash was a cartoon character in my favorite cartoon "series" that was part of the Rocky and Bullwinkle Show. The other character of that continuing story, whose name I thought would be more awkward, was Dudley Do-Right. I could have also chosen Elmer Fudd, or Wile E. Coyote. I picked what I picked because I find it silly, whether you do or don't doesn't matter. Any meaning you find in a username, whether mine or anyone else's, is likely unintended.

Come on, Snidely. There's a bit too much justification there.

tete, I tend to be verbose. (And sometimes dense). Is that what you're saying?

Snidely,

I think tete_a_tete is basically paraphrasing the quote "The lady doth protest too much, methink" from Hamlet.

Basically by being so long winded in your explanation, instead of convincing people of what you are saying, people start to doubt that what you are saying is true since you're so defensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_lady_doth_protest_too_much,_methinks

Excellent, thanks to both of you for the observations.

I like your sense of humor, Snidely ;-)

Oops, sorry that wasn't a Shakespearan.

Wait, am I doth protesting too much?

Is it horrible if I stop and take photos of abandoned farmhouses. What about taking quick emergency pee stops in some farmer's corn field. What about looking for my missing cat under my neighbors deck. About 15 yrs ago when I was looking for my first house I asked about this very topic and the agent said sometimes maybe people dont like it but it kind of comes with the territory of selling a house. I think we as a culture have changed a lot in the last 15 yrs and not for the better. The default now seems to be "always assume the worst about the other person & their motives." But Im an old lady, what do I know.

Kashka, getting your pet safely home is one thing. Choosing to not take the very simple step of contacting the real estate agent is another.

Peeing is also an essential ;-) No choice there either. Well, there is, but...

"kind of comes with the territory of selling a house" is what I disagree with. That's just you justifying breaking the law, like saying "everybody does it". Still doesn't make it right. No wonder some people won't put a sign up in their yard.