In their book Tea Roses (Old Roses for Warm Gardens), the aus rosarians clearly distinguish between their AO and their EDL. They mention AO's potential for colour variability stating that 'clear lemon flowers with no hint of apricot and pink can also occur' and describe both roses as tall and vigorous. FWIW.

Gloire de Dijon is being described (and seems to be) as yellow in Engand but I have never seen a yellow flower on it.... So I take colour descriptions of these Tea roses with a pinch of salt since their colour seems to be very dependent on climate (and maybe UV received).

PS. Seems we cross posted with Jackie..

My AO has the same colourings as Jackie's and although I cannot recall from whom I bought it, I think the supplier of the original bud wood would have been David Ruston. Like Nik, I believe climate and light intensity plays a major part on the colouring.

FWIW, Etoile de Lyon has always been soft lemon yellow for me.

So if I understand rightly, I may have the actual Anna, and it may still be yellow, not orange/buff/pink. Ah roses! No way to guess what size it may turn out to be then. My Vesuve is nearly 6ft across and 2ft6 high at the end of the first year, and my Mutablis and Mme Mari are both 3ft in all directions, so she could end up more towards the Jacqueline end of the Anna scale. Or she could not. I'd be very happy if it was, that's such an exquisite rose.

Correct. My AO is kept to 6'x 4' by judicious trimming because of its placement, but would build up into a very large shrub if I would let it. You may find you get the varying colours anyway as the weather warms....as you say, such an exquisite rose.

There's a bit of interesting history here, with a caution on identification by comparison. At some point in the 1980s, Mike Lowe (New Hampshire USA) imported Bermuda's Anna Olivier. Peter Beales also acquired the rose, probably while attending the World Federation of Rose Societies' regional meeting in Bermuda, in 1987 (Mike was there as well, and that may be when he got it). Mike labeled the rose 'Anna Olivier', without indicating where it came from or whether there was any question concerning its identity. Later, Peter imported 'Anna Olivier' from Mike (not knowing of the source), assuming it was the "real" thing. On comparison, sure enough, they WERE the same! Voila! The Bermuda form must be the real AO! Of course it didn't take long for everyone involved to realize what had happened, but it was already forever in print, as fduk_gw has found.

..I think, if I wanted to try this rose, I would contact Mrs Hook at Roseraie du Desert in France as they have 2 clones listed, including the Bermuda one, and I'd like to see what both were like, or to get advice on them before ordering... I'm not clear where they got the other one from...

Tea rose list

Malclom,

I'm utterly confused.....

I can attest that 'Etoile de Lyon' is no small grower here. Mine is roughly 10 - 11 years old and 7' tall and 14'+ in width. In fact, I have been eying it lately as a potential source of much-needed real estate for rarer roses, though of course now it is putting on such a spectacular show of blooms (after a season of less-than-stellar performance, bloom-wise, due to drought), making that decision tougher. FWIW (and usually none for this zone in California!), HMF describes EDL as being a bit larger than AO.

I don't have 'Anna Olivier' here, but one difference for me, from the one I have seen and also the sport, 'Lady Roberts', is that EDL is a stiffer, more upright rose than those, whose habits are a bit more relaxed. Along with the difference in color, EDL blooms tend to be on sturdy peduncles and not droop or dangle much, unlike many teas.

Teas "nod" - much nicer.

Still would love to find a vendor that would ship this to zone 6b in the US

On balance, after reading the above, I think I will be potting this when it arrives - if I can keep SdLV happy in a pot for a season, I'm sure EdL or AO, whatever it is, will be ok. Reason being, I want a yellow for the original spot I'd intended. If it's orange/buff that is OK too, I just don't want to have to dig it up to move it to the orange beds. I confess, I'm less and less willing to put faith in Beales inventory, the more I read. Don't have room, or I'd do what Marlorena suggests and acquire both roses from Roseraie du Desert as well for comparison. A project for the future perhaps.

Update: I had too many roses in pots for sense, so I planted it. The first bloom blew so fast I missed it completely. The second ones got snapped off by some creature unknown and annoying. The third, I just spotted today - and it doesn't appear to be yellow. Of course, having resigned myself to getting Etoile, I'd put it in a yellow spot. *sigh* I knew I was tempting Murphy by planting it.

Hopefully it will open properly over the next few days - we're due a 'hot' spell.

Wow! That is a darker bud than my Anna Olivier puts out, but as you say, climate can make a huge difference. Also, I have roses which have colored buds but blooms a completely lighter color. Looking forward to seeing some blooms on your rose! Here is my AO with buds:

Jackie

The form of the AO blooms I see here is also different from that of my 'Etoile de Lyon'. The latter has plump buds and is packed with petals, which open with something like a button eye, then more petals curved around the center, with the outer petals reflexing and quilling, giving the classic starry Tea look. My plant is nothing like as enormous as catspa's. If mine were that large it might behave differently, but it seems happy to stay a shrub and displays no climbing tendencies, unlike some large Teas.

Opening! One more sunny day ought to do it.

So, my baby 'Anna' looks like it might be the real Anna, or at least not Etoile. So far, all 4 blooms have been pinkish orange, not yellow, and seem to be relatively low petal count. Of course, baby roses being baby roses, it could still revert to being yellow in the future.

As you say, you need to wait until your bush is 2-3 years old to see what the mature bush puts out in the way of blooms. However, I can say that both the buds and the blooms (and the leaves!) look like AO to me. My Anna has very variable color of blooms from time to time - I think it must be weather related. Here is a pic of it producing yellow, pink, and buff blooms all on the same day!

Jackie

I finally, today see brick tones on my 5 mo old AO from Greenmantle! I think I got the right one. (Like Jackie's)! Earlier were yellow and buff. All one plant.

Sheila's garden. · More Info

Sheila's garden. · More Info

Sheila's garden. · More Info

Sheila's garden. · More Info