That has already happened here. Only it was a "professional landscraper" who was looking for free advice about how to create a rose garden for a client. "Irritates" the mess out of you, doesn't it?

Well, it happened again..

PS. And not only in the antique rose forum. Seems somebody is meaning to have the whole of gardenweb 'work' for free to help feed his family.. Which I wouldn't mind too much doing if only he stated his purpose..

I'm sorry.

It would be helpful if you gave us his/her username so we can avoid the scammer.

For myself, I wouldn't mind giving advice to a professional if they were up front about it. Let's face it, most of these "professionals" know very little about plants, and old roses are probably foreign territory for them. If helping them would aid the spread of old roses to more gardens it could only be a good thing, but it's the lack of honesty that would be grating, and the general sneakiness of it. What Nik is describing would make me angry also because of the feeling of being blatantly used.

What Ingrid said.

Jackie

Look at the link below.. There are lots of similar threads in the plants clinic forum, and the name that rose forum and other forums. Being Greek, I was intrigued to see a compatriot posting in these forums (I was also a little suspicious since this guy was using terms such as biotic and abiotic, giving away he's not a common gardener. I'm also suspicious of people who seem to be just takers and don't make an attempt towards giving..), so I did a little search, which any of you could do but at some point you would stumble upon your inability to read Greek.Trust me, or otherwise I can produce proof that Google translate would help you decipher.
What's wrong with my plant..

First, that looks like mealy bug on the myrtle. Is this one of the "professionals"?

That's 99% Icerya purchasi, cottony cushion scale, not mealy bug. Very common in Greece as it is a citrus pest. Our 'expert' who sells his inexistent knowledge to an unsuspecting audience didn't have a clue about it.. I don't give a damn about what he 'sells' to his clientele as long as he's not taking us for a ride.

See the thornless rose GW thread about thornless

And the youtube video Thornless rose

In the video comments he says he intends to propagate this 'very uncommon rose' so anyone interested (to buy) should contact him, and also provides links which, if you were to read Greek, you would know what he is up to.

I repeat, i wouldn't mind helping this guy feeding his family if he were upfront about it (that's because I KNOW how hard it is to make a living in Greece nowdays...). But he isn't. While he is based in a town near Karditsa city in central Greece, he mentions in the crepe myrtle thread that he is (the plant he means..) based in Salonica in the North, about 250km away. He has started quite a few threads in the clinic forum asking about what's wrong with this or that plant of 'his'. That's because he's offering his paid services to people enquiring about issues with their plants.

I'm sorry, but I think I'm an 'ethical' person in the wide sense of the word and I hate it when someone blatantly isn't...

I'm with Ingrid.
BE HONEST!

I don't think anyone here minds sharing what they know. You just don't want to feel "used."

Mmmm, tricky one - I mean, who doesn't look up stuff on the web all the time - information which has been put out there for the taking? I know I do...and it could be argued that this forum is essentially just another resource for information. The issue gets touchy because we do have a personal relationship amongst each other - my forum mates - and offering advice and suggestions is something we all do at the drop of a hat.

So, do you think this guy is actually a charlatan who knows nothing or is he merely fact checking (as we all do)? After all, I work as a professional gardener and have certainly offered my customers advice which I have gathered from this forum - growing teas, for instance, which I do not do myself but feel it behooves me to take advice from experts who do. In fact, I do have issues with this but mainly around being truthful to clients regarding the limits of my expertise- ...but this is probably more for the benefit of the customer and not the knowledge source I have appropriated. For sure, copyright, in relation to photos and text may well apply...but tracing the provenance of information and sharing profits is a difficult question which I simply wouldn't know how to answer nor could I cope with the admin (and for this reason, I never use someone's images, even if credited, nor would I lift a piece of text either).

I dunno Nic - one of the things which comes up here on GW are questions people submit as part of a course/homework...and some people have really made a massive effort to offer advice/lists of plants/conditions, ID etc Now does this count as perfectly reasonable research...or is it taking advantage of the generous nature of gardeners?.

It just seems that it would be better to say: "I'm a landscaper, and I've run across this . . . What do you think?"

Nik, I think I figured out what post you were referring to . . . :-)

There is a great difference between "looking stuff up on line" and interacting with you to glean your knowledge without informing you you are providing a professional consultation. The former requires the inquirer to actually research and glean the desired knowledge from the mass of existing information. The latter is that person specifically picking that information from YOU without informing you of their motives and intentions. That is dishonest.

Ah yes, I see. I have not asked outright for info which I intend to present as my own knowledge - instead, I have aquired knowledge from this forum by means of participation - to and fro. But I am asking myself if, in a hypothetical situation, a customer asked my opinion about crown gall, which I have never come across myself - I would not only look it up online, in books or journals and ask people... I would certainly ask my forum mates.

However, by and large, I don't make a habit of it and when I get paid, it is never for consultations - only for the actual physical labour...because I am a jobbing gardener, not a consultant. But supposing I was/did. How would that work? Should I offer a percentage? I suspect that if that was the case, I might look elsewhere (libraries for example). And also, Kim, you are talking about knowledge, which tends to be intangible and yet still involved time, effort, cost of education...and, as such, can be quantified (I have friends who are consultants in areas such as international development who charge a daily rate for their services).

I suspect that, at the heart, it is not about money but about honesty and integrity...in which case, you have the option to withdraw your advice and friendship...but I don't know about the ethics of exposing this person...in what cannot be termed any sort of contractual arrangement in that you have freely offered advice without stating your terms and you are not in competition with each other on a commercial level. As I said, it is complex...and I am conflicted..

I had my suspicions too...

Sorry Camps, starting threads named 'What's wrong with my rose', 'What's wrong with my eggplant?', 'What's eating my plant?' etc etc when what one is really asking are the exact questions asked by one's customers and showing the pics sent to him by email, is totally dishonest and unethical IMHO. The fact that these questions (we are talking about tens of questions all over the GW forums in the last few months) constitute 100% of one's 'contribution' to these forums just adds insult to injury.

GW activity

FWIW ... I think it would be just fine if someone came to this (or other) Forum and said:
"I'm a landscaper/gardener. My client has a problem I can't diagnose. Can anyone here make suggestions?"
Got no problem with that. In fact, I get queries like that myself, privately, or through the Gold Coast HRG or Heritage Roses Groups web sites, and I'm always happy to help (assuming the answer isn't "'Ya got me, Doc!").

Of course for all we know, the person intended to go back to the client, and say: "I asked in an on-line forum, and the consensus was . . . "

When I had my business, if I ran up against something I didn't know, I researched it, in books, on line, with others in my industry. It was always prefaced with, "I have a client who..." so they knew what it was, and they did the same with me. We shared that type of information because it made it better for us all. I have been hired for consultations by landscape companies and "gardeners" for specific situations, suggestions, etc., for which I charged a specific hourly rate. If any written plans or drawings were required, there were additional charges, which there should be as those were "homework" and not accomplishable during the in-person consultation. I've also hired others who were more well versed concerning trees, xeriscaping and other areas of interest, and paid them hourly or their stated fees, for their expertise and suggestions.

Yes, I wouldn't have a problem either in Jeri's 'landscaper case' above.

But if a guy came to the forums and said 'I'm a consultant offering identification services about plants, insects etc through email and I charge 15 Euros per case and identification about disease and pests etc based on photos my clients send me, charging 25 Euros' and then I saw a multitude of direct questions posed in just a few days I would object.

There are two things going on here. First, it is the honesty thing. And secondly there is the abuse of the forum and forum members' willingness to help. I'm willing to speculate that even the forum owners would object in such a case..

(PS. The guy's obvious incompetency in what he's selling to his customers is disturbing also but beyond the scope of this rant. This person cannot even recognise the common Amaranthus blitum when he sees a pic of it, which is a very common weed over here. We even cultivate and eat them in Greece for Pete's sake...).

I confess, I am amazed (I frequently am) that apparently so many people are unable, unwilling or incompetent at using the vast trove of information out there, preferring to simply throw money at someone to do it for them. In the UK, there appears to be a flourishing online garden design service where people send a few photos of their space and, bingo, back comes a printed design and plant list while their bank account is several hundred pounds lighter.

What sort of service is that?

When I was in that game, I would spend days walking about in the design area, prodding at soils, peering at light and shadows, checking the aspects, the building design, placing of windows, doors etc. the clients aspirations, the placing of utilities. More often than not, the client didn't get much more than a sketchy drawing or 2 but at least I knew the place intimately...in a way it is simply not possible to do online...and frankly, never in a million years would I be spending money on an internet expert offering diagnoses from a photo.

Nic, I can see this really bothers you so why not contact Houzz. The old GW had many rulings regarding business use and promotions and although it may well be impossible to do anything about it other than refuse to participate (there are charlatans and knaves everywhere), why not take a punt on doing something similar yourself since you do have expertise and experience which always comes across to customers...eventually. Evidently, there seems to be a market out there, filled with lazy people who just want someone else to make the effort on their behalf.

That guy operates a (real or virtual) 'plant clinic', whatever this is, offering also (he might be subcontracting a lab) water and soil tests, fertilisation consultancy, microscopic disease and pest identification and so on and so forth. I bet though that most of what he makes comes from his 'send me a photo and I'll tell you all about it' service.

You need a degree in agronomic sciences to legally practice such consultancy or commercial activity having to do with plant diseases, cultural requirements, commercial propagation etc etc, which apparenty he has. That by itself, of course, does not make one an expert in anything..

You do not need a degree to become a garden design consultant, a landscaper or a commercial gardener as far as I know (but I may be wrong).

Yep, some people are happy to give stuff away fro free while others insist on being paid for it. I suspect this guy is acting perfectly legally since, as far as I know, we forum members do not own the rights to our info...but this might not be the case with HOUZZ itself who do, I think, have an agreement where any copy on this site legally belongs to them...so maybe check with the HOUZZ admin team. Apart from that, well, annoyingly, it seems as though he has found a lucrative business plan...and, as I have said, there are many villains out there - witness the appalling 'counselling' and other therapeutic scams/schemes, operated by amateurs who have been under no license or professional obligations to have any qualifications whatsoever...resulting in children being removed from homes, various 'false memory' scandals and misery and repercussions for many trusting people who thought they were paying for a professional psychotherapy service.

I post on a couple of politics forums (who would have guessed) which are regularly trawled by (paid) journalists who frequently remove entire swathes of copy).

Teeth gritting.

I agree with the premise that if someone is upfront about what they need, want and why, I can decide whether I want to share info etc. with that person. Thankfully I've noticed these type of people are very far & few between on most of these forums, however I have not been a very active participant for very long. I do look on the HMF cuttings boards at a person's want vs. have lists and though I haven't sent anyone any cuttings yet, I will not send to people whose want list is a mile long of readily available roses that can be bought with no "Have' listings. Sounds like they are trying to get gardens for free.

I tend to preface my questions with "A friend (or coworker or...) has" in my description of the issue, question, etc. I would expect the same courtesy from a professional.

I'm a master gardener who volunteers on a hotline. (I'm not the only one on this forum, by the way.) We get garden questions all the time. Note: most MG's do not have horticulture degrees (though a few do, not including myself). We know that from time to time professionals consult us. Usually they mention the fact. Sometimes they do not. I don't mind answering an occasional question from a professional even if the person will eventually be paid for that information. In my other life I was a librarian. People come into libraries all the time and ask questions that they will receive payment for knowing.

True, I would resent being manipulated by a cynical user. On the other hand, I am happy to share the world's knowledge with pretty much anyone who asks.

Bottom line for me is the honesty. I don't care who or what you are if you tell me up front why you need such and such info then I will tell you what I know.

Valerie

I agree about the honesty. What is also critical for me is a willingness to give as well as take: share information, plants where that's possible. I'll most willingly answer the questions of a rank beginner who comes on the forum, and I'll happily give plants and cuttings to people who are just starting out and have nothing to swap back. Everybody begins at zero, and this is how you grow gardeners. But it's pleasant to think that they have a willingness to share in their turn, once they have something to share, or, if they aren't going to turn into great gardeners, are generous in other ways. Gardeners are almost all generous; grateful, too. It's one of the happiest aspects of gardening.

That is a lovely way of thinking Melissa!

It would be nice, and the polite thing to do, if people were up front about identifying themselves. However, anything you post on the Internet is fair game really. We all use it to gain information all the time. There's no law that says a professional can't too.