Chance, in my experience, they make a nicer plant -- though they may take a bit longer to mature.
I think they also make a longer-lived plant.

I haven't bought any budded roses for a long time.
In fact, since the "big" rose producers are transitioning to own-root production, budded plants are becoming a thing of the past.

Now, THAT SAID, there are definitely some roses which were from the beginning grown budded.
Those particular cultivars may not grow as well on their own roots.
That's what they make custom-budding for, I guess.
I have a hankering to grow 'Crepuscule' on Fortuniana ...

Jeri

Thank you Jeri, for your thoughts on this subject. It's good to have people on the forum who have so much knowledge and experience with roses. If it makes a nicer plant, then I'll go for that, since the look of the plant is important to me. I'll just have to be more patient I guess.

You are right about more and more companies selling roses own-root nowadays. I guess not dealing with sucker canes is also a big plus. Thanks for the information.

Chance

I agree with Jeri - almost all of my antique roses are on their own roots. Some of my modern ones aren't, because I bought them before I knew better. The own root ones take longer to get big, but the grafted ones don't seem to do as well in the long run - as well as suckers being such a nuiscence! I really fell in love with the idea of "own root" when I went to put in ground cover roses all along a planting area near the street that was about 70 feet long & 6 feet wide - the idea of having to dig suckers out from under a mass of short and wide roses was ridiculous, so I switched suppliers to one who could deliver them on their own roots. 15 years later, they are still doing great.

Jackie

Hi :)
I live in a different climate than you do and that changes the situation completely. I have most of my roses grafted. Other than gallicas, albas, some portlands and bourbons they all most all grow and flower better as grafted plants. Winters here are not so cold but summers are shorter than further south. Ownroot roses are really set back by the winter. Canina and multiflora understock make them much more hardy. They start growing earlier in the season, grow and flower much more. Even after 6 or more years the grafted plants are larger. In the rosarium in my town they made some experiments with the rugosa Fru Dagmar Hastrup. This is a very robust rose that grow and flower very well on its own roots, but grafted on canina it grew noticeably taller, about two feet I think it was. In this case the shorter growth was more desired.

It is not absolutely impossible to grow some hybrid teas and floribundas own root here, but mostly they stay small and weak plants. I have had success with Peace and Westerland ownroot, but these are more hardy than most in this class and I had them in containers. Grafting is a must here.

As mentioned all most all my bought roses are grafted and I have very little problem with suckers. Multiflora, canina and laxa have very few suckers here. I have had problems with a few plants on canina pfänders. Grafted roses that sucker terribly on its own roots like rugosas and some gallicas can be easier to contain grafted.

I often read on the web lists of all the trouble with grafted roses. A common view is that roses are produced and sold as grafted plants because it is cheaper and give larger plants to sell. In older rose literature from 1930's to the 1960's grafted (oculated) was considered more expensive but worth the result. On the other hand grafting is a must for propagating many rose varieties in open fields. Much of this is has to do with established production methods too. Ownroot rose production requires greenhouses and it is a costly investment. There are lots of research on what gives the best roses both for the buyer and producer. There are a large number of rose test that rate growth and flowering of the plants in fields after 6-7 years. On most roses grafted are shown to give better plants even on the old reblooming varieties.

Here they sell ownroot roses in summer. These are flowering plants in pots and sell for 1/3 to 2/3 of the price that is most common for grafted and potted roses. These have mostly been miniatures but the last few years I have noticed several floribundas and renaissance roses (Poulsen) too, even a few climbers.

I know what some of the large rose producers in USA states about ownroot roses. I dare say that their claims are wrong, even by US conditions. They may be true for some climates and some varieties but as a general statement misleading. Even in milder climates in Italy and France roses many varieties are shown to be more resilient grafted.

Sometimes I wonder if Gertrude Jeckyll's views on gardening fused with a bit of Vita Sackville-West romanticism is being recycled among the gardeners of antique roses and sort of spread to a wider public. I know it is a bit naughty of me to say so but I feel I am on to something ;-)

I try to stick with own root roses that I think will do well in my area. If I get a grafted rose I plant the union 6" deep hoping it will go on it's own roots in the future. I really like the idea of having plants that do well in my area on their own roots.

Taoseeker, at first I thought you were talking about gj, the rose fused or grafted on a vita-sackville rose that I wasn't familiar with, LOL, I still don't know what you are saying and assume it to be Taoism??
However all this rootstock talk brings up a question I have about hardiness in rootstocks. My question being that if hardiness is a zone rating for the plant above the ground, is there any underground zones which apply to rootstocks?

In Florida, we tend to grow nearly everything grafted to 'Fortuniana' if at all possible, and in the vast majority of cases, that makes a better plant.
Something I think many people fail to realize when they get into this discussion is that "grafted" is not just one thing -- there are several rootstocks used, each of which has its own characteristics. But even those who realize that, often forget its parallel concept -- if you grow 100 different own-root plants, you are growing 100 DIFFERENT root systems. The concept that they would all behave alike because they are all "own-root" is ludicrous. Yet almost everyone misses that fact.

Dr. Malcolm Manners's comments need to be heeded and understood. Although there are the obvious differences between the two (e.g. grafted roses get bigger faster), it's not simply a generalised comparison of "own-root vs grafted roses". It should be a comparison of the own-root version vs the grafted version of a specific variety, in a specific location. For example, roses with root systems that have poor tolerance for acid soil won't do as well in our garden own root, but does better grafted on to R. multiflora. Whereas, Parade is a vigorous climber on it's own roots, but is nothing more than a tall shrub on R. fortuniana rootstock.

Jeri,

Based on your your statement above, I assume that 'Crepuscule' is among the *roses which were from the beginning grown budded.* What would you expect in your zone from a budded 'Crepuscule'?

'Crepuscule' on its own roots is a climbing rose that I sometimes regret planting because of its rampant growth. Is it possible that a grafted plant might be more mannerly -- similar to Cactus Joe's experience with 'Parade'?

I disagree that grafted roses are hardier. I live in zone 4A MN and can assure you my own-rooties, modern or OGR, do much better than grafted roses over the short and long haul. I seek them out. If my rose-lust overwhelms common sense and I buy a grafted rose, I plant it deep and hope it strikes out on its own roots.

There are no hard and fast rules. A pocket of cold-zoners from upstate NY who post here will swear otherwise, and I must respect their opinion, but like everything else in the world, your mileage will vary. Check with local growers and find out what works for them.

Based on your your statement above, I assume that 'Crepuscule' is among the *roses which were from the beginning grown budded.* What would you expect in your zone from a budded 'Crepuscule'?

*** Jax, I suspect you are in a much warmer climate than I am.
In my coastal climate, for the most part, real heat is brought us by the compression factor of desiccating East winds.

We have tried four times now, to grow Crepuscule.
The current plant, from a very vigorous mother plant, was about 5 inches tall when we got it.
I'd guess it to have lost about a half inch in the 9 months it's spent here.

All of those yaller Tea-Noisettes seem to want more heat (and I suspect the humid heat of the South) to grow well.
They don't get it here.
Our 5-y-o Duchesse d'Auerstadt is a 4-ft-tall Shrub. Jaune Desprez is struggling. Only Reve d'Or does well here.

Since I know it works to boost the vigor of some of the old HTs, I'd like to try Crepuscule on Fortuniana,
and see if that will do the trick. If not, I'll just have to give up on it.

Jeri

We're quite warm here, and easily 90% of my roses are own-root. The own-roots take off here almost as quickly as they did for me in north Texas, which is warmer. There is an exception to the good results, and that is the few moderns I grow-- Playboy, Hot Cocoa, and Lavaglut. These are in the best spot I have and are all underperformers (they're also all from the same source..). I'm being patient but if they still look wimpy in the 3rd year out they go. A sucker for experiment, I've already planted Oklahoma and Honey Bouquet own-root from a different source, we'll see how they do own-root. When I grew lots of roses up in Ohio I planted bud unions 4 to 6" down and I assume most of them went own-root-- I'd know for sure if a lot of roses winter-killed & I had to dig them up. But that didn't happen!

I wonder why the David Austin roses site does not give the choice of own-root for their roses. I would think that a company that has one of it's most famous roses called Gertrude Jekyll would offer own-root since that is what she recommended. Hmmmmmmmmmmm??????

Chance

Great topic! I think most of us have pondered this question over the years. Generally, I'm with Jeri on this one (maybe influenced by similar coastal climate limits!). But, I also think that Malcolm has it right - it is more effective to actually compare results from using the same rose on its own roots vs grafted. So, I think I would combine the two perspectives here. Not only comparing the same rose, but also including how different local climates can determine which method is more appropriate.

So, for me, I have been struggling with trying to encourage some of the hardier teas to thrive better in my PNW coastal garden, where our hot summer days are limited. I remember reading a comment from Paul Barden a while ago about how he would like to try Gloire de Dijon, as a grafted plant, to see if that would add more vigor. I second that particular desire! I think this ties in with what Jeri was also saying.

Maybe I should try to get a grafted version of Lady Hillingdon and compare its progress to the plant I have (own roots), which has been slow ( to say the least!). Hmmm. It would certainly save room in our greenhouse if it worked! Happy new year, especially for all those Ox people!

Ian

Ian -- Just to tempt you, there ARE a few people who do custom budding . . .

Jeri

I prefer own-root plants but there are some that I think are better grafted, like Reine des Violettes. I wish Donna from upstate NY would chime in..she really pushes her zone with some tender teas that she thinks do well for her only because they are own root.

Yikes, Jeri! Just what I need - yet another rosey temptation! Actually, I think the real answer is for me to learn how to bud those sweeties myself...maybe that can be another addition to my retirement dreams (which are burgeoning with rose ambitions!). Have you ever tried? ... the budding, not the retirement. :)

Ian

Have you ever tried? ... the budding, not the retirement. :)

*** No, and without a source for virus-indexed rootstock, I wouldn't even bother.
I'd never want more than 2-3 roses budded, so it wouldn't make sense for me to do it.
Not when I know of a couple of good sources for it.

Jeri