When is the best time to get a soil test; is it too late in the season?

Are there certain conditions that give the best results?

Thanks

Any time the ground isn't frozen is fine, and all conditions give identical results.

You can certainly get the test this fall if you like, but almost all adjustments won't start until spring (we're getting too close to ground freeze for slowly-integrating things to have time to work in, and then we risk runoff and erosion of those over the winter). On the up side, it gives you all winter to find what you need, so there's no rush. Some very water-soluble things may still be able to go this year, but that's getting more doubtful by the day.

If you'd rather wait until the ground unfreezes in spring, that's great too. Your window to run stuff down is shorter, though that shouldn't be a problem. If your schedule is busy, just let me know that and I'll delay the application start. Plus most of the things recommended are available at your local big box store.

Thanks morpheuspa,

Last application of synthetic fertilizer 28-0-4 was but down yesterday by my lawn service.

Will that effect soil test results?

If you happen to note any fertilizer granules when you pull each sample, remove them. But other than that, there won't be any negative effects and Logan doesn't test nitrogen levels in the soil. Even if they did, I'd ignore it anyway--N levels vary by time of day, moisture level, temperature, and the whim of the plant roots' absorption levels at that moment.

I was just looking at the Logan Lab web-site.

What is the recommended test need for a lawn soil analysis?

Thanks

Just the basic $25 test will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about your soil. Under rare circumstances, other tests may be required, but the photos above clearly state that this isn't one of those cases!

short of not yet getting a soil test.

any idea why my lawn still looks the same as the photo's from this past summer even though it is much cooler and the 21/2" of rain that recently fell.

we have had a least two or three heavy frost, temperature as low as 24F.

why wouldn't the dormintant looking lawn come back?

could the grasses just be dead?

You would need a soil test to determine most things.

Otherwise, analyzing your cultural practices would be the next place to look. How high do you cut your grass? (Higher is better). How much do you cut off when you do? (Less is best; no more than 1/3 the height at max). How often do you mow? (As often as you need to prevent cutting more than 1/3rd off).

Taller grass is better able to transform energy from the sun into energy (photosynthesis). It also keeps the surface shaded, preventing weeds from germinating and the grass roots from getting fried.

Mowing often encourages the grass to fill in. It stimulates tillar, rhizome and/or stolon growth, producing more grass blades. It also allows you to produce more organic matter for your lawn to absorb ... But you need to keep those clippings on the lawn.

Keeping the amount of grass cut off at a minimum will help the grass grow strong. It you cut more than a third off, you basically set off the plants emergency response. The resources it was going to use for root development and new expansion will be diverted to repaIring the damage. Moreover, it will have a harder time producing more energy with over a third of its solar-energy producers missing.

When you mow, you should leave the clippings on the lawn. If your mower has a side shoot, use that. If you have a mulching plug, even better. Just don't bag the clippings! Every time you cut the grass, you deplete energy and nutrients from the lawn. But the clippings will return to the lawn and decompose, recycling everything back in and feeding your lawn with the nutrients that are released during decomposition.

never mow when the lawn is wet. This includes morning dew. Mowing a wet lawn is asking for problems with disease. If you see clippings sticking to your boots, it is too wet. The best time to mow is in the early evening on sunny, hot days (eg summer); it gives the grass a chance to simmer down overnight before it gets scorched in the sun.

I believe Morpheus has already covered watering practices, above. Deep and infrequent.

Thank you Morpheus and owlnsr,

I live in central Massachusetts, zone 5b. I will modify my watering schedule to apply 1" of water per week in one watering session. The lawn in the shade areas of the house and garage are much greener than the majority of the lawn in the full sun.

Does red fescue in full sun require more than 1" of water per week?

Typical mowing practices are twice a week, the mowing height is 31/2" and I do mulch the clippings.

Now that the growing season is over; last week I lowered the blade height to 21/2" still mulching.

Yesterday I lowered it to 2" and bagged the clippings.

In approximately 7500 sq ft of lawn I removed 8, 30 gallon bags of clippings. The lawn is so thick it took three passes to remove the grasses left behind. The majority of the clippings looked like the dead grasses I mentioned above (please see photos).

Was mowing to 2" and removing the dead grasses a mistake?

Red fescue does require more water in the sun, but it doesn't require much in the shade. It does not tolerate foot traffic very well. It's good for low maintenance in shady areas.

---

Why are you bagging clippings?

You spent $$$ on fertilizer to provide the nutrients to the lawn. Every time you bag clippings, you are throwing your money away.

Leave the clippings in the lawn. You are what you eat, and so is grass. The clippings contain nutrients that will return to the soil (to be consumed again) when they decompose.

Leaves are a bonus. That's like getting free money. Mulch them in, too, and leave them on the lawn.

...

I would not lower the mowing height below 3 inches for fescue (except for the first cut in the spring). For the shady spots, I would keep the mower height @ at 3.5 to 4 inches.

The reason I mowed at 2" was to try to remove all of the dead grasses and protect from snow mold.

The dead grasses that came up with the mowing were long (approximately 2"-3") and laying on top of the lawn surface requiring the bagging of the grass

As I mentioned earlier in my post, even though the lawn is very, very thick and weed free. It lacks green color and has a lot of what looks like dead grasses in it.

I was hoping it was just dormant but it never gets greener with the cool weather of the fall.

This has been a problem for several years.

Any idea how much water per week red fescue requires in full sun?

Based on the fact the lawn area in the shade has a nice green color, I don't think the soil lacks the nurtrients needed for the lawn to be green.

Does that reasoning make sense?

Thanks

Sounds like the only nutrient possibly missing is a nice fat shot of iron... That'll green it up, if only temporarily

No, it doesn't make too much sense.

There is only a finite amount of nutrients in the soil. Soil life (eg microbes, bacterial fungus, earthworms, etc.) feeds on organic matter, such as mulched grass clippings and mulched leaves. When organic matter decomposes, the nutrients are released and are consumed by the lawn.

So, when you remove the clippings and the leaves, you are not only depleting the finite amount of nutrients from your soil, you are also removing the food source for the soil life. Without a food source, the soil life will start to decline. When that happens, your lawn will decline.

If you always provide a food source for the soil life, it will thrive. When the soil life is thriving, it will break things down much faster. That is, if you regularly return the clippings to the soil throughout the year, you will be providing a steady supply of food and supporting a steady soil life population. When the fall leaves are mulched, it will be like a feast to them.

If you mulch clippings + feed organically throughout the year (eg Milorganite, Alfalfa Meal, etc.) you are supporting an even larger population. The mulched leaves will just be another snack to them.

Owlnsr,

Sorry if I am missing your point.

I mulch mow the entire year(s).

I only bagged this last mowing in an attempt to remove the dead grasses in the lawn.

What I am trying to understand, is why the lawn is greener (less dead grass) in the shade areas provide by the shaddows of the house, garage and fencing.

Is it just not enough water in the full sun area?

It could be a lot of things. Pests, thatch, lawn disease, compaction, lack of water, stress from foot traffic, mowing habits, etc. A healthy soil life promoted by organic practices and regularly adding organics can help your lawn overcome these things. You might have a chemical problem with your soil, and a soil test would be needed to know.

Red fescue doesn't need to be fertilized 4-5 times a year.. So, your 4-5 synthetic treatments could be pushing it over the limit by forcing it to grow and expend too much energy in the sunny areas. Meanwhile, KBG has different maintenance needs & is loving that lawn food.

It could also be environmental. Red fescue is definitely the shade lover between the two types. The KBG will tolerate some shade but that's not its preferred environment. So, you may be seeing the red fescue growing just fine and the KBG doing "meh" but not thriving (or dying). Meanwhile, Red fescue doesn't do so well in the full sun, but KBG thrives in it. What you could be seeing in the sunny areas where the red fescue is dying might just be survival of,the fittest--- where the KBG is winning the competition. This is typical of mixed (sun & shade lawns, like rye, fescue,bluegrass mixes) lawns, with different types dominating in different areas; the "marble cake" lawn, so to speak.

I can eliminate Pests, thatch, lawn disease, compaction, lack of water, stress from foot traffic, mowing habits.

No none pest or diseases, dethached in April, aerated in early September, provided 1 inch of water per week with irrigation system, little to no foot traffic, and mowed to 31/2".

The lawn was installed using hydro-seeding five years ago when the house was built.

It is 1 of a 38 home developement. All using the same loam from the same on-site pile. Some of the neighbors use things like Scotts products. Their lawns may not be as thick or as weed free as mine, but they are greener. There is a spectrum of nice lawns (they use the second company I mention below) to similar colored lawns as mine.

I have used 3 lawn services, the first one being a company using all organic fertilizers.

In looking for faster results I hired a the second, one was the most highly regarded companies in the area, I decided to leave them for and the company I am using now. Which was the company I used at my previous home and I had nothing but great results from their program.

Could it be they hydo-seeded with all red fescue seed?

If that's the case; what if any are my alternatives in trying to get a green lawn.

Thanks

The first thing is a soil test. I don't think you will be able to get reliable, targeted advice without one.

It could be that your soil ph is too low (acidic) or too high (aklaline) for your turf to fully utilize the nutrients that are in the soil. No one would advise you to "add lime" if the soil was alkaline; likewise, no one would advise you to "add sulfur" to a soil that was acidic.

If you added iron, that might help or it might not. You might already have iron available in your soil, but it's locked up because you have too much phosphorous. Or your soil ph might be too high, making it hard for the plants to utilize the iron. Or you have clay soil thst lacks organic matter, and organic matter has trace nutrients that plants need to take in iron from the soil. There could be a variety of reasons that cause iron-related issues and without knowing more about the condition it's hard to provide a treatment.

the fact is, it's hard to know what the problem is without a soil test. Remember, the lawns health is related to the soils health. The lawn just shows symptoms of the problem, but curing the problem requires fixing the soil. And the soil can't be truly fixed until a soil test --- everything else is just guessing, and thst could end up making things worse.

Thank you,

I will be sending a soil sample to Logan Labs.

Is 6" the recommended depth for lawn soil analysis?

Four inches for lawns, where most of the feeder roots are within that range. However, if you do a six inch test, I simply translate the numbers to a four inch standard. No big deal.

When taking the sample, is it the soil "AT" 4" or a sample of the soil just below the surface to 4"?

Thanks

Just below the surface (underneath all the trash and leaves and whatnot) to four inches.

Sorry for my on-going questions.

I have dug my 18 sample holes and have taken the soil to send to Logan Labs.

As I filter through the mixed soil from the holes to get 2 cups of mixed soil at the 4" depth level to send for analysis, should I include or remove the root material?

Please watch for the Logan Lab analysis.

Pull the root material. Although it'll low-ball the organic matter percentage a little bit, that's actually preferable (living root isn't actually OM yet, it's root mass).

Thank you morpheuspa, I will be putting the sample into the mail.

One thing I found was the digging was tough even after having the lawn aerated last month. I think I am dealing with a lot of clay.

We'll see. Hopefully I'll get the answers I need to get the results I am looking for.

Again thank you for all of your help.

Please reference as the reason for the Logan Labs Soil Test.

Also I noticed the soil was very hard too dig, even though the lawn was aerated in early November.

>>Please reference as the reason for the Logan Labs Soil Test.

Beg pardon?

>>Also I noticed the soil was very hard too dig, even though the lawn was aerated in early November.

Regrettably, this is typical, and one of the reasons I'm not a big fan of aeration. It doesn't alter anything but the gross structure, and that only temporarily, and can't possibly do a thing about the chemical makeup of your soil.