The actual tree is the one just right of center in the pic

Thank you John. I see that I will need to take some measurements tomorrow and maybe a couple of closeup pics and come back to you.

If I plant it on the SE it will be kind of on the left of the tree as we see it. Maybe it will refuse to grow inside the tree? If I plant it on the SW (on the other side of the tree as we look at in the pic above) don't I stand the risk of it growing all at that side and not 'looking at me' at all?

I will have root invasion whatever I do since I will need to water the rose in an otherwise no watering area.. Maybe create a diversion by watering on the other side of the tree also? I'm sure that's a silly idea!

Yes, the plant is coming bareroot (grafted). Could you explain why you say planting it directly in the ground would be better than it spending a year in the pot?

The tree can be thinned out but I'm afraid this won't last for more than a season.

The tree is quite mature (> 25 y.o) but I'm not sure it's not still gaining in size.

PS Don't you have any idea about the area that BP is growing near Athens? How did you find out about it?

Nik, let me see if I can answer in the order you asked, lol. Wherever you plant the rose, it will eventually grow to toward the best light for it, whether that means more shade, or more sun. My ramblers tend to grow on the surface of the trees, but thoroughly interwoven. But for the ones I've planted in more northerly aspects, they've grown THROUGH the center of the canopy and come out the other side, and then covered the opposite side from where they were planted. If you plant it on the SW side, my guess is the majority of the plant would stay on that side. But like I said, BP gets HUGE in your climate, so it might well work its way around to the "viewing" side.

For roses going into an amended bed, it makes little difference if they are planted bare root or potted. But for going into native soil, or where they will have root competition, bare root roses will acclimate better. The roots of a potted rose are in good soil. The roots won't venture out into the native soil quickly, if at all. They'll keep circling around and around in that good soil, until they've depleted it. And the tree roots will find that good soil as well, and starve the rose. By planting it bare root, it's growing from the beginning in what amounts to an unlimited root run. Of course there's still going to be root competition from the tree, but you can ameliorate that with the sunken pot method, or cardboard, as well as root pruning the tree roots near the rose for a year or two. I've even seen someone plant a rose and leave an open semi-circular trench on the side facing the tree, about three feet from the rose. They filled it with mulch, and every so often pulled it back and trimmed out the tree roots. Time consuming, but very effective.

If you can thin the canopy for even a year, that will allow more light to reach the rose at ground level, and give it a head start. Remember, it's going to a a little bitty short thing next to a great big shady thing for a couple of years, lol.

As for the the BP I saw in Athens, I was on a group tour, and was taking a short walking tour from a stop the bus made, so I have NO idea where I was. I have a pic ( SEVERAL, actually. I think I used a roll of film, lol) of the BP here somewhere, but it's a physical print (pre-digital camera!), and I'll have to rummage through several hundred pics to find it and scan it, lol. But trust me, this rose was MONUMENTAL. I haven't been quite sane since I laid eyes on it, lol.

John

John, thanks again.

I might go for the cut pot thing. I have a 100lt (25 gallon) cheap plastic pot that I can cut its bottom part of and 'plant' it upside down (i.e. with its wider end in the bottom. The actual hole will be bigger than this.

Now I will need to find out how far from the trunk I should plant and how I should plan to persuade the rose to climb the tree. I will come back with some pics and measurements.

PS. I suppose you saw the 'Athens' BP in bloom. It would help me a lot if you could remember the actual month in spring you saw it blooming. I suppose May would have been too late for it so it should have been late March or April?

I'm just guessing here... I think I would plant at the drip line or just a little in. Then, as I did for my Leonie and the 30 foot oak, I would tie the first long cane up into the canopy. I threw a weighted string over a low branch, tied the cane tip to it and pulled it up to its maximum length. From there it put out climbing laterals and so far so good.

Nik, when I find the photos, they will probably be dated. The tour was in April, but I can't remember the exact date. This was in 1999, and I've slept a few times since then (and a few brain cells have died, lol). But I know it wasn't in March.

John

Nik, in case it helps, we have a BP in our garden here, and also I have noticed several really old ones in the neglected gardens of old houses near by. We were zone 9b, but now they tell me we are zone 10a. Around here the BPs bloom very early, with the banksias, in Feb/March. I get some scattered bloom all the way through April.

Jackie

Thanks Jackie. When the roses (or any plant) first bloom is not dependent only on temp (zone, so to speak) but on latitude as well (i.e. light). I don't think that any once bloomer blooms before the end of March over here on the 38th parallel with Feb being our coldest month.

Nik, I just looked up our latitude, and it said 37.97, so there must be something else going on. I have no idea, of course, what that might be. Our fruit trees and native acacia bloom in Jan/Feb, and that is when the bulbs come up, too. Perhaps something to do with ocean currents? Our coldest months are Dec/Jan.

Jackie

Jackie, I'm exactly at 37.898573 fwiw lol lol. That would make it just north of San Francisco in Cal, about where Berkeley is in terms of latitude. The only fruit trees that bloom in Feb over here are the very early varieties of almond. It seems you get an earlier spring than us.

Yes, we are about due West of Berkeley, on the West side of SF Bay, 20 miles North of San Francisco. We are 6 blocks from the bay, and the Pacific Ocean is just over the hills to our West. We are at 6 feet of elevation over sea level. Climate is so strange - this is an example of how important "local conditions" are - even when we don't understand what is so different between our two climates, obviously something is!

Jackie

You should be getting quite less variation in yearly temps than us over here. Our summers are probably much warmer on average and our winters a bit cooler than yours.

At the remnants of a mid-1800's homestead, there was a HUGE, HUGE Magnolia tree. I got there at the right time of spring, to see the magnolia decorated like a Christmas Tree with swags of Belle Portugaise.

It's on State Park land, on the edge of the ocean, so it may still be there. It was the sight of a lifetime.

Oh, Jeri, you're making me drool, lol. Did you by chance take a photo of it? Just imagining what it looked like has caused a relapse of my "rose insanity", re: this thread.