Ulrich Brunner Fils does fine here in my mildewy (not-the-worst-but-bad-enough) place; stays clean, blooms well.

I have Heinrich Schultheis, Gloire de Ducher and Reine des Violettes, which all do well for me. HS has mid to deeper pink flowers and is the most upright of the three to about 1.5 tall and 1.2 wide. GdD and RdV are quite lax growers so mine are espaliered along a fence line. ( If I had the room, I would liked to have tried pegging them). GdD is listed as dark red, but mine has a lot of purple shading; it is about 2.5m wide and 1.6 tall. RdV is a little smaller. All three bloom well in flushes, but the summer flowers tend to be smaller, and often crisp in the heat. All three are fragrant and stay clean.

'Reine des Violettes' would do for you -- IF your conditions are on the acidic side, rather than the alkaline range. RdV HATES alkaline conditions.

You might look at 'Mons. Boncenne,' because that's what we think "Pulich Children" may be. P.C. is "fussy" here, but not hopeless.

I think you would LOVE "Forest Ranch Pom-Pom" but I don't believe you can get it.

"Grandmother's Hat" is GREAT in our conditions, and probably should be for you.

'Paul Neyron' was an absolute PIG here. It will mildew no matter where you put it. (I know, I know, it is fine in some conditions. It is a pig here.)

"Ragged Robin" -- which is closer to being a "giant China" still grows in a manner similar to Grandmother's Hat, and it is a constant-flowering disease-free wonder which should be in every Mediterranean garden (IMHO). ('Gloire des Rosomanes')

Thanks all, keep it coming if anyone has any other suggestions. Mildew can be quite bad over here in spring and fall but I've heard there are places where it can be worse (Jeri's ?). Jeri I'm well and truly an alkaline gardener over here (to the extent that I never plant a rose without adding lots of blonde unbuffered peat (pH 3-3.5) in the hole ammendment).

That Gloire des Rosomanes looks like a sturdy kind of China to my eyes. I will consider it as a canditate for places I (will) grow Teas and Chinas.

"Grandmother's Hat" seems to be available from nurseries in Holland and Germany.

Ozmelodye, conditions in Australia should be mostly acidic as far as I can tell by failing to grow any number of australian origin plants in the past (even ones which are not particularly fussy about phosphorus).

I now live nine miles from the Pacific Ocean where rust and mildew are terminal. I don't have Grandmother's Hat as I am waiting to obtain Jeri's "good one" when it's ready. I do have Marchioness of Londonderry from bluegirl and it is extremely healthy here so far. I also have Gloire des Rosomanes and it is RUDELY healthy. NO issues of any kind. Tina Marie, a lighter colored sport of Grandmother's Hat is listed on HMF as available from Rosenversand C. Fechner in Lower Saxony Germany, but you would have to contact them directly to see if that is current.

Gloire des Rosomanes is extremely similar in many plant parts, growth habit and performance to Grandmother's Hat, including a very similar scent to the growing parts, peduncles and sepals. I don't know how, but those two ARE related.

I'm not in your climate at all, but I've heard good things about 'Ferdinand Pichard' being healthy. It wasn't mentioned, but perhaps it was forgotten -- rather than being remembered for being sickly.

:-)

~Christopher

A question I thought about before and sprung to my mind again reading about RdV's non affinity to alkaline conditions. What about if a rose which dislikes alkaline soil is grafted on a tolerant stock? Would this take care of this issue? Anybody tried RdV grafted on tolerant stock in alkaline soil? I know one should not judge from other plant families but in citrus aversion of many species and hybrids to alkalinity can be mitigated by using tolerant rootstocks (otherwise the Greek citrus industry would not exist). Any thoughts?

Christopher, Ferdinand Pichard looks like a more agreable kind of stripped rose than others I've seen.. It so happens that it is one of the very few OGRs available locally so I could obtain it quite easily and cheaply (9 Euro including p&p). Wondering about its mildew tendencies though.

Also, could anybody look at this sole flower pic? This is a rose purpotedly found locally which is sold as being 'A fragrant recurrent found OGR'. It does look like an HP to my eyes although not much can be said from a single flower pic. Size is given as 1.5m tall by 0.80m wide (5x3 feet).

OGR from Chios island

That found-HP kinda reminds me of 'La Reine'.

:-)

~Chrostopher

It surely must be a rose which at the end of the 19th century must have been quite popular in Europe (especially places like Italy or France) since it found its way to Chios island which at the time was actively into shipping commerce with these parts of the world. Chios has been the gateway of many other plants into 19th and early 20th century Greece (Med willowleaf mandarin and other citrus spring to mind). Currently the island is one of the main gateways for desperate refugees and immigrants from the Middle East..

Now, if I were Marlorena I might be tempted to obtain one and grow it side by side to La Reine or any other named rose you might suggest...

Theoretically the stock can make all the difference, and it often does. That being said, I have grown RdV budded to Huey (an old, RMV infected Roses of Yesterday and Today plant) as well as "cleaner" own root ones. Huey is the more alkaline tolerant stock and the ONLY way I could keep RdV's foliage green and its flowers anything better than pale lavender to white, was to copiously amend with Ironite and Hydrangea Blue. There were over twelve-hundred roses in that garden, many of which were on Huey and even more own root. The "violet" roses were constantly, chronically chlorotic no matter whose roots were under them. I also grew RdV at Limberlost Roses, a specialty rose nursery Bob Edberg started and sold to a landscraping company for whom I worked. Canned and fed very well, it was OK, but NOT in this soil with this water. So, yes, better roots SHOULD help, but they don't always. I won't waste room, time, energy nor water on RdV again.

Mildew can be caused by a number of factors. Some roses are genetically susceptible. Most can be forced to mildew through water stress. In the climates around Los Angeles (who knows how similar they may be to yours?), Ferdinand Pichard was never any good. Rust, black spot and mildew year round, unless heavily sprayed. My current climate can experience water stress, brought on by the frequent sea breezes, combined with the extreme UV. The winds and UV dry out the plants and soil; the cool, damp helps germinate the mildew, even on those pretty normally resistant. If something doesn't mildew (or rust) here, I'd have to rate it very resistant.

Kim, points taken.

A popular HP that does well over most of my part of California is 'Baronne Prevost'.

I was also going to suggest the found rose called "Portland from Glendora" which might or might not be the HP 'Johasine Hanet' as being exceptionally healthy, but this year it has a moderate case of powdery mildew. Not too severe, and I'm stressing it with reduced water because of California's drought. I never noticed this when it was getting weekly water.

Either one might be worth trying.

Rosefolly

...I like the look of that rose on Chios Island, I hadn't heard of it before...

...La Reine, or whatever, I'd try if I had your acreage Nik...

...we don't have issues here with RdViolettes as far as I'm aware... I know it grows well in Newmarket Suffolk which is calcareous over chalk rubble... albeit in a garden with excellent topsoil, so can only presume it's the Laxa rootstock that must make a difference... Mottisfont must have it and they're over chalk...

...mine has the best spot in my garden on rich deep loam, and is taking off destined to grow into a sizeable bush...I'm on more neutral here... perhaps your soil wouldn't be rich enough....?

..Mrs John Laing would be top of my list of HP's, if I get another....

My RdV was on its own roots and did very poorly in alkaline soil, with white/burnt edge leaves by the end of the irrigation season. Rugosas are similarly sensitive. The purple hybrid multifloras were even worse. I believe that the water quality is as much to blame as the soil itself. Because there is no summer rain here at all, roses must be watered, and the water itself brings in salts which accumulate in the soil. When (if) winter brings rain, those salts are washed away and the foliage of many plants improves dramatically.

Right on target, Folly.

Anna de Diesbach hasn't been mentioned. I've been growing this beauty for a while. I like it much better then Baronne Prevost. I like the bush habit and the fact that it opens and shows it's stamens.

And I agree re. Baronne Prevost. A very healthy rose here.

Nik -- Our RdV (like Kim's) was grafted onto alkaline-tolerant Dr. Huey. It still suffered constantly from chlorosis, and required constant supplementation. It's not worth it.

There are many different pink HPs travelling as 'La Reine.' Maybe they're really different. Maybe they're just sports . . . some are disease-resistant. Others mildew and rust at the drop of a hat. Ya pay's yer money, ya takes yer choice.

Bob Edberg used to refer to Anna here as "Anna de Dies Back", because in these conditions, that's what she chronically did.

As Jeri commented, some of the all-too-similar pink OGR looking things are slaves to either black spot or rust, while others appearing nearly identical, aren't. Even the same rose, when sufficiently stressed, can break out in extreme cases of either disease. I had to give my R. Arkansana away because I had to water it daily or even the new growth rusted, spring through fall. It was the same with every hybrid Arkansana I tried, except Morden Blush. Heritage in the same garden would not produce clean foliage. The only time it had decent leaves was during rains. Some roses are just very easily stressed to the point they 'get sick'. Water and heat stress are the most common in arid, alkaline, high UV areas. The same roses can perform much better in areas with greater humidity and rain, even when it's hot-wet.

Rosefolly....I'm sorry to hear your rose did poorly for you....but thank you for the information... I've just gone out and checked my RdV over just out of curiosity... I notice a bit of yellowing around the edges of the older foliage, lower down, like I would sometimes see on Rhodos or Camellias, but not too much to worry me... the fresh growth is all fine and it's quite vigorous... but I can see what you mean that it could be worse in another situation...

...I rarely have the need to water roses here, but my tap water is very hard, and I sometimes hose others plants nearby, so some could have gone onto the rose this summer... I shall keep an eye on that in future.... I've never read anywhere here in the literature the issue concerning this rose, that it needs acid soil.... perhaps those that sell it ought to state it if that's the case..

I have tried to grow 'La Reine' -- and it wasn't pretty. It was a martyr to every known disease.
Now, I have two roses here, both of which have been "dismissed" as being 'La Reine.'
The problem with those identifications is that these two roses are different, one from the other, AND neither is really like the named 'La Reine' which I grew here. The best thing about them is that both have surprisingly good (tho not perfect) disease-resistance for an HP in my conditions.
I don't believe they are 'La Reine.' I don't know what either of them is, and I'm happy for them to exist under study names.

"De la Vina Mystery" was found growing out of the top of an 8-ft-tall Eugenia hedge in Santa Barbara, CA. The house very likely dated to a time before the earthquake in 1920 (?25?).

"Crestline Mulberry" was Kim Rupert's find, collected in Crestline, CA, outside an old building that was in use as an Antiques shop:

Folks over in Cal, I'm with you with regards to water, dryness, heat and UV stress and salt accumulation. I've been there and seen it. Combine these with alkaline AND calcareous soil and I know many plants and quite a few roses cannot take it. You should see how my MIP looked until yesterday when I had to prune her deep due to her sorry state. While clayish soil helps with water retention, it also makes the salt problem worse. I have the worst salt problems where my soil is retentive and the least where my soil is very free draining.

Yeah, Nik -- our soil isn't Clay, but what it is, is ... sand. It's ancient seabed, thrust up by extinct volcanoes, and but where organic matter has been added, it can be totally sterile. Our aquifer flows through ancient seabed, so it is full of salts. Come to think of it, I expect your soil may be of somewhat similar origin, but for the clay.
MIP was one of the first roses I planted here, and it hurt to give her up. But I had to be honest, and face the fact that she would never, EVER, be a thing of beauty here.
Try "Grandmother's Hat" if you can get her. She'll make you happy.

In a fit of madness last year, I bought two HPs: Ardoisee d'Lyon and Eugene Furst.

I had two or three magnificent blooms out of Ardoisee -- in March. None from Eugene. Both are huge, green, and mildew-free here in Zone 10a/20, but do not bloom.

Maybe I should add some acidic amendment? Would that help them to bloom? We are certainly alkaline here.

We are in a Mediterranean, so-called, climate here. However, we don't get that cold. Or, unfortunately, that wet.

FWIW

I suspect that getting a chilly winter would push them to bloom . . .

Nik, if you do get Grandmother's Hat, it might help if she had afternoon shade. When I tried GH, it grew like gangbusters, faster than any own-root nonclimber I'd ever grown. I loved the foliage because it's not like that of a HT, but unfortunately when the rose began to bloom, which was in short order, the blooms crumpled up like used tissue in a few hours. The spot I put it had afternoon sun, and this was before the draught and global warming, and Le Vesuve is now doing quite well in that same spot. The blooms didn't really dry up; they just became shapeless before the day was over. I've seen pictures of Jeri's GH and it looks nothing like mine did. Of course I'm much further inland and at a higher elevation, but I imagine it gets fairly warm where you are so I wanted you to be aware.

Jeri - Nik's mystery rose from Chios Island looked familiar to me - I looked at your post re TROMN in Jan, 2015, and it sure looks like the first picture you posted - it is dark, of course, but so are most of TROMNs - what do you think? Wouldn't it be funny if it survived in CA and in Greece?

Jackie

Good catch, Jackie!
Yes. Based on the bloom, I'd say this could be TROMN.
Which would make it even stranger that a rose could be THAT widely distributed, and remain unidentified.
I'd love to see more detail photos of the Chios rose. If it's a match, I guess that would eliminate the possibility that TROMN is something which originated in CA.

Link for "The Rose of Many Names" write-up: TROMN.

The colour of the "Chios" rose is described as pink-lilac and the size of the flowers as 8-10cm in diameter. I don't know if these fit with TROMN.

It is easy to obtain a plant of the 'Chios' rose. I can have it budded bare root in late October and it will show how it looks in March. Chios does have a traditional cottage industry of producing deserts and jams from once bloomers, so called 'May roses' over here (probably damasks although I've never seen the roses) so this particular rose may be a chance hybrid between these and some more modern rose. It would be exciting though if it proves similar to your TROMN although I feel it is highly unlikely. There's also the chance that the nursery is just talking bull and they named the rose thuswise to give it an exotic air. Although this is a reputable nursery it does have a history of renaming well known roses... I don't trust merchants...

Jeri, have you checked with European experts with regards to TROMN?

I have shown pictures of it here and there, and had NO response as it matching anything "known." The only things we've matched it to are other "mystery" roses ... simply deepening the mystery.

I myself no longer grow it here because (like most HPs) it rusted and mildewed for me. It does not do that in the Sierra Foothills, where we've seen it. It apparently does not do it in Sacramento -- where the Historic Rose Garden in the old cemetery has several clones of it, collected here and there. It didn't do it on Mare Island, where we collected it in a deserted park.

Another vote for Baronne Prevost. Nice and clean here. Needs room; gets big.

Did I put in a vote for Baronne Prevost. It's always grown clean here, and we grew it as a climber.

Thanks folks. I note Baronne Prevost and I will need to go over every post here to decipher for any other candidates. Keep it coming if you have more ideas.

Any comments about the red climber Souvenir du Docteur Jamain? I don't expect a red HP not to get some mildew but is it a real mildew magnet?

RE SdDrJ: its staggeringly beautiful on the approximately three days it doesnt have blackspot, mildew or sun scorch - and if it scorches for me in the UK, I think it will scorch for you. Nevertheless, mine is moving from its all too, too prominent position on an arch and not being shovel pruned which tells you something about how much I love it despite its flaws. It mildews much less if you keep it well watered btw.

not to mention the measly 3 blooms you get at any one time.

I got lots more than that, but mostly fried :)

I had maybe 4 dozen in the first big flush - predictably, that flush co-incided with some of the hottest temps of the season. That photo was taken at 6.30 am and by the time I finished work at 4pm, that bloom had been crisped. But Camp's general point stands - it's a bit stingy.

Gloire des Rosomanes' was the first red rose I ever loved enough to grow, and I'm still madly in love with it, it's very clean in our med. climate near San Francisco, California. I love Arrilaga' which has huge pink blossoms and good rebloom for its class. Baronne Prevost is nearly as clean and very very fragrant. Mrs. John Laing is also disease resistant locally, as is 'Ulrich Brunner fils' which can easily be pegged to make a "fountain of roses" affect. If I had to choose one pink H.P. it would be Baronne Prevost' for its' rich scent.

Lux.