That's how it is my friend. Of the Q.bicolor I collected and am sending to you, there are very few round acorns from my 20 - 22 trees collected. From these trees they are 95 of 100 the largest acorns of all. Those are the ones I'm sending to you, and also the ones I kept for myself.

I'm going to go looking for large macrocarpa in a floodplain area north of me... if I'm successful, I'll send some of those, too. So, it'll be a few weeks until I ship your envelope.

Dax

Sounds great! I appreciate it.

I always knew they varied, but that was interesting since they were from the same basic area.

I found Q. marilandica yesterday in the northernmost county of IL. It took a long time to find one. I'm kind of stoked about it.

All in all it's only south of my home 12 miles but I have to drive about 12 miles west, also. So very close. It was a good, no a great day.

Dax

Hey all, I found the tree that i got mixed up (Muelenbergii or Michauxxi) well, stupid me, the tree was labeled Chinkapin oak on the trunk. I got some pics. chinkapin oak trunk

moreacorns

caps etccaps

leavesleaves

trunk leavestrunk leaves

more trunk leavestrunk leaves this is not the hickory, I got mixed up it's the Chin oak

The acorns look like the Q.Alba to me, but it is definitely a chinkapin oak, the trees near it were not any white oak. It is alot like those Hairmetal has pictured. They are similar. poaky1

I see Bur caps on the ground, poak and muehlenbergii. I'm sure you realize that though.

Dax

Ya know Dax, I thought that to myself when I saw them, but, I assumed that the Chinkapin must have frilly caps also, and Burr's are likely larger than those I saw and took those pics. I Meant to look in my field guide to confirm what I thought. I never did, but thought that the sign on the tree MUST be correct. So now I just looked in the field guide, and the leaves I took pics of above are those of the Chinkapin oak and is the tree those Burr oak acorns were under. I think I need to make another trip to the tree. I am hoping the tree still has acorns that haven't dropped yet, but are ready to, with it's caps on. Maybe it's a hybrid? I need to get there tommorrow. I may have missed a Burr oak near it, but I really don't think so. I saw Maples, a pin oak and a Kentucky Coffee tree near it. If the tree didn't drop those acorns, maybe the grounds crew raked a large area and it was pushed there, but, I didn't see any drag marks or piles of stuff, so I need to check it out and hope some are still attached etc. If it is a BurrX Chinkapin oak hybrid, I am going to have to plant some acorns for at least one tree to keep in my yard. I never saw a Burr oak on the grounds up there. But the acorn that made that tree could've come from anywhere. I read that rich folks years ago used to gift each other with plant seeds or plants. (Now we all can do it cheaply:) It used to be a rich Coal barron's house very close to where the tree is, and with those leaves Chinkapin looking, the dude probably died before it got mature. But, Hybrids bear early sometimes. Well, I will just stop here, instead of rambling about it. Later Dax and whoever else reads this. Poaky1

Hybrids are sooooooo rare poaky. What you likely saw were caps of Bur and caps of Chinkapin. The acorn of Chinkapin will turn almost black. Bur, will not. I could be wrong and the acorns may not turn out to be chinkapin but the caps look ok to be so.

Dax

I am confused by your post Dax. You said the caps look okay to be Chinkapin. The caps look to be Burr, not Chinkapin, remember? Well, I got some more pix today, and it is indeed a hybrid. BTW, there were no caps anywhere around the tree that weren't Burr oak caps. I have to post the pix, so that you can see instead of me explaining. Hybrid BurrXChinka oak

Another with more leafHybrid? Am I right? I am sure it is.

Looks good to me. I'll take 30 acorns please! Quercus x deamii. Nice find!

I am happy about this, I am definitely sowing a couple of em. I can give you a couple, if you did plant them in your yard. Too rare to be rootstock material. I am glad to know the name of the hybrid also. I could'nt find more than one more acorn today. Next year is possible for more though. Hybrids are said to grow faster, so I am hoping for that to be true.

Very true. I can wait until next-year. Keep and sow what you have, poaky.

Good score!

Dax

P.s. I wouldn't use them for understock. I'd plant them around my area like Johnny Appleseed did. And, I'd bring them to a plant exchange as well as sell them.

Okay Great, but really, I would like to know if you (Dax, or even Hairm) want the few of these Hybrid BurrXChinkapin oak acorns. I don't have enough to start a new thread about them so, someone reading this Lemmie know, or I just may put them in some "wild areas" here and there. But, it would kinda be a waste of a rare hybrid.

Keep them or give them to someone else. Thanks for offering poaky.

Dax

Once Dax sends me what he's sending, plus stuff I've gathered and will be (like magnolia), my predetermined "spousal allotment" of space for seeds and tree-growing will be fulfulled. Otherwise, I'd take some, poaky.

Basically "if those damn seeds take up too much space in my refrigerator, they're going in the trash".

I understand hair. I won't offer you any more seeds, but, as in another post, I am asking you for about 6-8 Dawn Redwood seeds. I just would like to possibly get 3 DR out of the seeds from you. MY dad used to be my "tree police" Hair and anyone reading this, but he is much less aware of what is going on now. I want to get rid of some trees he planted, one is in BAD SHAPE, but, I just can't do it. Maybe one day. I would keep the other 2 that are in good shape.

Dax, I just realized you really declined the Q. Deamii, officially. I hope one of your sources for rare seeds will have a place for them. Sorry, I didn't know that you were not happy to get them. I know you can find someone who would appreciate one of these trees (hope so anyway) even if it will be in a place that you don't own, but will most likely be never cut down, or invaded for a good while. poaky1

Dax, In other words you are getting 2 acorns from the Q. deamii, please sow them somewhere where you will see them get more mature as the years go on. I added 2 acorns of Q. Deamii to those 8 Beechnuts I sent out today. I hope you can find an area that you could observe the Hybrid (Q. Deamii) grow, weather you grow one tree or 2 from the 2 acorns. I don't care if someone is successful at growing these hybrid acorns, and you can just send me an update in growth from someone you know in another state. I just will be happy to see the trees growth once a year, Dax. OIf things haven't gone so smoothly with the trading, I understand. poaky1

"Oh" I'll grow them. I was just going to wait for another year to ask for more.

Appreciate it, very much.

Dax

Great Dax, I will likely get more next year anyway. There are lots of trees up there at Mt. Macrina, even a Willow oak, and tons of Red oak, Velutina (likely) But I saw no acorns on any of the red oak family oaks. Could they be late? Maybe this is the year most are just having buttons? IOW, next year they'll be mature? Just take a guess Dax, or someone else reading this. Okay, Later Poaky1 P.S. Glad you will grow them, I can see how progress goes.

May be you're seeing next years crop on reds and just didn't hit the jackpot trees of this year.

These are river bottom macrocarpa from a county north of me:

I'm stoked to have found (4) trees. All the acorns that are filled are from basically one of the trees though. That big and frilly cap top left is a tree next to all those that are filled and the animals simply beat me to the acorns. There are thousands of those big & frilly caps laying on the ground.

Dax

Are those the macs you're sending me, Dax?

Leaves and cap hanging in the tree in poaky's photos look more like sawtooth oak, Q. acutissima - or one of the related oaks from the Cerris group of Eurasian oaks - than a chinkabur hybrid. Likewise, acorns in the photo look like sawtooth acorns.

Good point, lucky. I wasn't even thinking sawtooth when I first saw it.

Dax, I take it the first sentence in your post was 4 me, (the red oaks) okay.Lucky P I guess that could be true, but, I would think the planter would've known the tree to be a US tree, not Asian. I know that isn't a guarantee, but they did put the name plaque saying "Chinkapin oak" I would think that they would be a bit less off from the right name. You could be right, but, I am hoping someone can tell me something that would help me tell the difference. I wish the tree plaque had a date on it, Sawtooths don't live more than 80 years tops, without falling apart. This tree is still in good shape. I will look at some pics tommorrow, and post more and read any other posts here etc. Poaky1

I'll have a third party person look at your photos, poaky. If you can get much clearer photos of the caps with a ruler in place that would help a lot. All sides/angles of the caps. Thanks.

Yes that sentence is for you.

Dax

poaky, seeds arrived last night. Thank you!

Dax

Ok. A different development. From a friend who is co-in-charge of the Oak Society's herbarium samples... lightly said, a specialist:

"From what I can see, she took photos of two
or three separate trees. Acorns in the first photo are acutissima. The last
photo is acutissima. Second photo is probably a mis-labeled plant. Third photo
is macrocarpa. 4th photo could be muehlenbergii. 5th who knows? My 2 cents worth."

.........

Dax

Before work (I don't have to work until 10am, which is nice) I went today to a park to see what was supposedly a surviving Castanea dentata...and it was a Quercus acutissima.

These are the kind of tags I'll put on my trees when they're larger. Get wire and wind it around a wooden doll and hook it on a tree. Very clever in my opinion.

Dax

poaky,

The photo on your page labeled 'Chin oak acorns 2015 Mt. M' look like sawtooth acorns to me...detached caps on the ground look like a mix of species.

The leaves and empty acorn cap hanging in your photos labeled 'ChinkapinXBurr" & 'ChinkapinXBurr2' are, IMO, Q.acutissima; not a chinkabur hybrid.

Despite the label attached to the tree... bark character is not typical of what I generally see with Q.muehlenbergii; but there may be regional differences - I have photos of some Q.alba that many folks would look at and say, "Shagbark hickory". Just because someone stuck a label on...doesn't mean that that person actually knew the correct ID... or that the label was attached to the correct tree (maintenance workers sometimes just see 'tree')...

I'm not a photographer, so take this as a critique, and not a criticism (most of my own phone photos are pretty bad, too)... but most of your photos of leaves, trunk/leaves, etc. are too out-of-focus &/or too far away to allow much in the way of evaluation or identification.

Dax, I labeled the pics on my photobucket loaded pics. When you click on one of the loaded pics, you should be able to see my whole library. I labeled the pics with the name of the tree in the photo. I haven't tried to deceive anyone. I am not sure how without a large ladder,. that I am supposed to get better pictures of leaves or caps on this tree. It is a large mature tree, which likely has lost any caps that previously clung to the branches. If anyone thinks I am trying to deceive them, they are wrong. If you think I have posted numerous pics of different trees and am not being honest please don't go any further with this ID, Dax. I know it wasn't you who suggested that personally. If you know I am being honest, I will take more pics, but if you think I am lying and posting pics of other trees just op out of the ID. I can go to the tree and take more pics, but, I can't fly up to the canopy and take better pics and do what ever your source says I didn't do right. My pics were not flawed. Maybe your source just can't ID the tree, so I am at fault? I think your source needs to think a little harder or realize he doesn't know the right answer, and swallow his pride, instead of saying I purposely took pics of several trees to cause confusion. That is how I took it. I would like to know what pics I could take to make right any confusion. I posted pics of the caps. So I can go and put the caps near a ruler? I took a pic of the bark already. What can I do to show your source that I am not being deceitful? My pics were really of the same tree, your source can blow it out of his A**. And you can tell him so. Let me know what to take a pic of that I didn't do so already. I took a pic of the caps STILL ATTACHED to the branches, they are likely not attached anymore. If I had extra money I would fly that Ba**ard out to the tree and have him look hiself. Sorry for the temper flaring, but, I don't like being called a liar. I want to know if it is really a Sawtooth, I don't want to plant it near my house if it is one. Poaky1

We think it's accutissima. Like you said once before... a landscaper/groundskeeper may have raked acorns under it. No one is calling you a liar. Please don't think that.

Dax

Acorn Size and Geographical Range in the North American Oaks

FYI

Okay, Dax, sorry, I thought that was inferred. But, the acorns weren't raked because they are all under the tree in a non uniform way. I think that the tree was a baby sawtooth acorn/seedling. And someone labeled it wrong. Who knows who planted the tree and when. It could be a pretty young tree, sawtooth are live fast die young trees. The leaves of the tree could be indeed Sawtooth, but the online images of sawtooth have leaves that are longer. But not all trees leaves are exact I guess. I am not going to keep the acorns I sowed in place. If you do keep those acorns growing you may be able to give a better more first hand ID Dax. I just may gather an acorn cap or 2 and measure it, but, it is likely a inch and a quarter wide long, and is a Accutisima. I should've thought about the Sawtooth, but, I was thinking of US oaks. We're good Dax, if your good I'm good. Poaky1

Oh, Sorry Lucas, when I click on your info thingy, I get nothing. This tree was in a public park type area Lucas, so was likely planted or acorn sowed. Poaky1

We're good poak.

Dax

Great Dax, just adding the bag in a south facing window opened those Hemlock cones right up, I'm trying it with my Rhod Maximum seed trusses, should work, your a smart guy Daxman!

I'm glad someone beside myself thinks so!

Dax

"Oh, Sorry Lucas, when I click on your info thingy, I get nothing. "

Works for me.

http://www.umass.edu/nebarrensfuels/publications/pdfs/Aizen_Patterson_1990_copy2.pdf

Maybe copy paste or search for it.

Okay Lucas, my brother helped me get to the article you showed. I am sorry if I didn't get alot out of your article, what I got is that large seeded oaks (like Burr oak, for MY example) are so hardy and their acorn size was/is thought to be why by some peeps in the past. The acorns change in size and shape in some trees as they adapt to new environs. I will guess something like a Q. Fusiformis Quartz mountain acorn is different than a regulare Q. Fusiformis. And Burr oaks of differing areas, a northeren growing populace, vs a more southern populace. If I missed something point it out to me Lucas or anyone else. BTW, Dax, you crack me up big time. Poaky1