Is the water hitting same spot for that duration? Meaning normal sprinklers rotate or oscillate. Is water continous on certain areas of your wet area? Seems like a lot of wetness in 4-8 minutes. Maybe measure output in those spots, using tuna can or similar device?

I've measure and the amount that lands in any one area is between 1/8th and 1/4 of an inch per period. The higher amount is usually close to the end of the oscillation (before it changes direction). I've tried to keep those end points either outside the fence or against the garage. The only one I can't is in that overlap area, and that overlap is by less than a foot. I kind of expect that area to be a bit overly wet.

I also believe the areas down hill from the sprinklers get extra water run to them as gravity empties the hose after the timers shut off. Nothing I can do about that. I also can deal with 1 or two areas that I'll need to fix come spring, but the entire area seems too wet and that's what I'm worried about.

Quarter inch per period, is a period 4 or 8 minutes?

Since different sprinklers are set to different durations, the 1/4 inch is in an 8 minute period.

I just want to verify that it's a quarter inch in 8 minutes--because an inch in 32 minutes from an oscillating sprinkler is pretty much unheard-of. Unless it's set at a very short reach, of course. Reports of 1 inch in 4 to 12 hours from an oscillator are much more normal.

Two inches an hour of precipitation will typically have trouble absorbing into ground once it's saturated, so some ponding and gravity-induced flow wouldn't surprise in the slightest. If you're doing this the recommended 3 to 4 times per day, you could be dropping a full inch of water per day on the area.

In that case, I'd drop the timing back. The goal here is usually around 1/4 inch per day tops unless the weather is extraordinarily hot. Any more is a waste.

I think my issues stem more that ANY excess water runs down the hill, making things progressively wetter as it gets lower. I also think immediately under and downhill from the sprinkler gets more water due to the hose draining after (which I have no idea how to correct).

Ok, so aiming for should simply shorten the duration, cut back frequency, both or what?

I'll try to recheck my rates, because I thought it seemed high myself. Now that it's cooler and don't need to worry about evaporation as much I can leave the cans out for a full day and see what I get.

Bottom line is with 20 minutes a day max there are areas wet enough to stay that way for a full 24 hours without watering. With that in mind, what should I plan when I start cutting back the watering? How much water am I aiming for when I'm doing 1x a day, or 1x every couple, etc?

thats where I was going, that is a lot of water in a short time. That is why the ground is wet, it's saturated. I think mine put down less that about 1/16 in 20 minutes in the heavy zone, maybe less.

On the duration question, if you see a puddle, you went too far.

Agreed! The goal is, optimally, always damp but never wet or dry. In practice, that doesn't completely work out, of course.

Two to three times per day is still best, but if the soil stays damp with 2 minutes of watering per session, great.

Ok, so if I can't manage to get the entire area damp before some areas puddle up?

How about when I am supposed to do longer duration but less frequent watering to promote root growth?

Should I just be going nuts with the shampoo back there to get the soil to open up more?

I think you're going to have to play the seeding period by ear, trying to minimize puddling. Dry seed is a no-no, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen back there very easily. On balance, between dry or very slightly puddly, I'd choose very slightly puddly.

>>How about when I am supposed to do longer duration but less frequent watering to promote root growth?

You'll probably drop to once a day watering and short period immediately at that point, and may only need every other day. Again, play by ear. At this point, the soil can be dry at the surface, but should stay damp down below.

>>Should I just be going nuts with the shampoo back there to get the soil to open up more?

I'd stick to 2 to 4 ounces per thousand square feet per month at this point. That's going to change the soil at around the maximum rate anyway.

I suspect there's a soil horizon down there somewhere where it changes over to heavy silt or settled clay. Over time, encouraging earthworms will help churn and mix that soil, evening things out. Aeration probably won't work as my bet is that the layer's too deep to reach easily, and you'd need to punch all the way through it in many locations to enable it to drain. If you have the layer at all and it isn't just a rock base.

I'm having the same thoughts about the deeper soil. I know the original fill (put in November of 2013) wasn't great soil, and believe it came from a cemetery (just happened to be where the paving contractor got his fill). Coming from 6 feet down it probably is a pretty heavy mix.

I thought last fall the landscape contractor had put down at least 2 " of topsoil, but who knows. He may have spread just enough to make it look good, then seeded and topped with straw before we could notice.

I honestly don't think I would ever use an aerator back there. Not knowing how many tree roots, rocks or native stones there are (we have two old quarries less than a mile from us) would make me leery of using it. The chances of destroying the machine seem fairly high. Most of the stone down there is bluestone I think, but usually is in pieces no bigger than 1 foot. They didn't hit too much when they dug the fence posts, so I don't think a rock base is a huge concern. High levels of stone fragments in the fill dirt on the other hand might be a bigger issue. Should I think about slowly adding thin layers of additional soil (no more than 1/4 inch at a time) in the future? I have no worries about contour issues making drainage problems if I raise the soil level (I already have that).

When do you think I should make the switch over to the less frequent watering? 1 month out? Also how long do you think I can push letting the soil dry between watering. Some areas will probably stay damp below the surface for several days, others might dry in a day or so. Only water in areas I find drying out quicker? I think I'm getting to the stage that always screws me up (i.e. leading to very thin shallow roots) so I'm trying to plan out better this time.

>>believe it came from a cemetery

Insert Poltergeist joke here.

>>Should I think about slowly adding thin layers of additional soil (no more than 1/4 inch at a time) in the future? I have no worries about contour issues making drainage problems if I raise the soil level (I already have that).

Meh. If you're pretty sure the first four inches or so are decent, or at least workable, there's no real need. 99% of grass' feeder roots are in the top four inch layer.

>>When do you think I should make the switch over to the less frequent watering? 1 month out?

That sounds about right, give or take some.

>>Also how long do you think I can push letting the soil dry between watering. Some areas will probably stay damp below the surface for several days, others might dry in a day or so. Only water in areas I find drying out quicker?

You can probably push straight to every other day watering, then, and just touch up those dry areas daily for a bit before sending them to every other day.

By the time you reach every third day, you can discontinue spot maintenance. The grass won't have any trouble adjusting, particularly since it'll be late October by that point and it may not need additional water at all any longer.

>> I think I'm getting to the stage that always screws me up (i.e. leading to very thin shallow roots) so I'm trying to plan out better this time.

It'll come into play more in spring. Don't let it wilt too badly, but you also don't want to overwater it. Ditto with summer. Dry hardpan to the root depth is bad, but you don't want it constantly wet, either.

Thanks for the feedback. I think for the next month I'll be panicking regardless. Like I said, maybe I should just get the pet safe astro turf.

So the lawn has come in ok in some areas and patchy in others, but I'm hoping that with the creeping fescue and the rough bluegrass in the mix they should fill in over time.

With that being said the rain this week will most likely wash away any shallow seedlings and seed. Is it even worth trying to toss a little extra seed down next week after the rain has moved on? Or should I wait and just dormant seed? I plan on switching over to the less frequent watering schedule after this week. With all this rain I might not have to water until Halloween.

What might be the best feeding (and what to feed with) to make sure the rough BG spreads as much as possible before the growing season ends? Or to make sure it spreads as quickly as possible in the spring?

Mother nature kicking my ass again.

You can certainly try seeding a bit once the rains stop, but keeping it moist would be critical. It might be easier just to dormant seed it before your first snowfall. On the up side, rainfall rates seem fairly reasonable, so hopefully losses won't be too bad.

This fall, I'd rely on gentler (and longer-term) feedings like Milorganite for everything except winterization.

Bluegrass will do what bluegrass will do...which is sit there and taunt you for several months at least before growing and spreading the way you want. Good levels of feeding will help minimize that, but...

Is that the same rate you've been watering since setting the seed? I'm wondering because I think the sprinklers in my yard are doing a bad job of evenly distributing the water (couple of puddles). I worry that it may be killing the seeds but it looks like your seeds survived over-watering so maybe there's hope. Only been 2 days counting planting for me. Think i might switch to manual and tell the lawn guy to take his crappy sprinklers away.

By the way, what is the tuna can thing? Is that how much should be put down per day or per watering session?

My back deck recorded 1/3", but I think the see-saw catch on my rain gauge is getting a bit sticky. Official at the airport was 0.95", and I live very close to it.

Sprouts that stuck down may (and are likely to) free themselves. They stand up pretty easily--it's not like heavy rains don't happen in nature quite regularly!

One other option for you might be to go purchase some mixed KBG/fescue/rye sod. Using a sharp scissors (that you'll need to resharpen when done), cut the sod into 3" x 3" pieces. Plant those. The bluegrasses will spread. The fescue and rye will clump up a bit, but won't spread.

One plug per square foot should, if well-fed and in your sunnier areas, spread nicely. That'll minimize what would need re-planting next year.

Then I might be tempted to bag the grass idea, put down mulch in the areas that have no grass, and plant a low-maintenance shade garden.

If we didn't spend several thousand filling the land and fencing it in for the dogs I would contemplate it. That and they have an affinity for eating acorns and mulch, so adding additional non dietary appetizers wouldn't be the best idea.

Since the area doesn't get overly cooked by sun, I could contemplate sod in the spring and make sure I water the hell out of it during the summer. Or I could just try this all again in the fall. Would a turf blanket be a good idea? Help the stuff get a kick start to growing in the spring? It would also prevent the soil from eroding more once the growing season is done this year.

I'm not sure how you went wrong on the initial watering. We talk loosely about watering new seed lightly, 3x per day. If the soil surface was still moist from the last time you watered, you did not need to water it again regardless of anyone's advice. The purpose of of the light watering is to keep the very top surface of the soil moist which will keep the seed moist. When the soil is saturated and soggy like in your pictures, you don't need more water. Whatever time you were watering for should have been cut in half time and again until you got down to something that did not saturate the soil every time. Apparently you have a fairly high flow system. It could be that 30 seconds of water, 3x per day, was all you needed. If you are going to do sod in the spring, you need to understand your watering system. Do we know where you live? I might have missed it, but you might still have time to sod now. If that is an option it will be much better to do it now than in the spring. Spring is when you would be watering all the new summer weeds. It would be nice if you could avoid that.

Proper watering for mature sod means 1 inch all at one time and then let it dry out for 1, 2, 3, or 4 WEEKS depending on the air temperature. Generally, assuming you're in the north somewhere, you should have only watered 3 times by mid April.