Shade Lawn Advice- Phase 2: Where's the cliff
shemmy98
8 years ago
Ok so here goes. Several pictures from my back yard re-seed/reno.
Ok, so several different questions.
1. The first picture looks great and believe it or not that the area on the side of the garage that gets the least amount of sun and most inconsistent water (since I have to do it by hand). The problem arises that those seedlings are already 2" tall yet look no where near ready to be cut. Some places elsewhere in the lawn haven't sprouted at all. All the seed was put down at the same time last Sunday. So when should I cut it?
2. The second picture is my backyard issue in a nutshell, where the peat stayed and held the seed, it sprouted (little bunch about middle right of picture), but elsewhere it's barren and no seed visible. Some random sprouts but less than 1 every 2 square inches or so. Should I try to respread some seed at 50% rate in the areas that seem the most sparse? Since I'm still watering at a high rate the next few weeks hoping to get the rough bluegrass to pop I figure any new seed would at least stand a chance of germinating. Yes? No?
3. One of the other areas in the yard that has sprouted nicely has all of a sudden started turning white. Disease? Fungus? Just some doomed seedlings?
My biggest issue is how some areas have sprouted nicely, others have not and how to deal with it. I don't mind doing additional seeding (maybe after the first cut) even if it's late in the season with the hopes that maybe some of the seed will sprout before the cold sets in. Even if it only germinates 50% of the seed, that's 50% more grass that will be there than now.
Just hoping this thing is going to hell once again. Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
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shemmy98
8 years agoRelated Discussions
Advice Needed: New Lawn
Comments (3)OK, you know fall is better so we can skip that. Plan on doing some reseeding in fall anyway for the (inevitable but partial) failure in spring and summer. I am located on the outskirts of Pittsburgh Pa and would like to know everything there is to know as to what I should do. I'm on the other side of the state, so somebody closer will be more accurate than I am on timing. In the areas where there are bald spots should I just lay down seed? You can, but scratching up the soil with a rake a bit and tamping it back down lightly afterward will do a much better job. Seed can be buried up to about 1/4" deep (and it likes that as it keeps it damper). n the areas where there seems to be a different type of grass growing, can I just re seed? What kind should I use? I would like something that is tough and durable. Yes and no. It won't get rid of the old grass, but might eventually outcompete it. It depends on what the old grass is. Tough...durable...western PA near the Great Lakes...any good mix that includes some KBG should be entirely acceptable. However, you're now adding more types of grass and possibly different colors again... Should I lay down a fertilizer, weed prevention, hay after seeding? This ONE TIME I'll recommend a mixed product--Scott's Starter Fertilizer with pre-emergent (I'm not sure of the formal name). The pre-m used won't stop the grass from sprouting. If you can't get that, the only options are Tupersan or Siduron, and those are expensive. Spring seedings always have weeds, though, so it's kind of important. Hay, if the seed is scratched in, is always optional and sometimes a good idea. I always skip it--I mulched with a light coat of peat moss the last time I did it, but that was a complete changeover of the lawn. For spots, I don't do much except throw down a handful of potting soil or peat moss over the top. Also where is the best place to purchase seed? Is there somewhere online that would be better than my local home depot or lowes? Any of the above. You sound like this isn't a hobby for you, you just want a nice lawn. Local stores will have what you need. I can also take some pictures of my half frozen/dead lawn if that can help determine what kind of seed that I should get. That would help if it were greening up, and perhaps even help some folks here if you were to do it now (but not me, particularly). A few other things: Timing: As soon as you can, which means don't freeze to death out there, fight with snow, frozen ground, or a weekend illness. Grass sprouts when ground temperatures are around 50, and that's a bit yet for you. Feeding: New lawns, like teenagers, are always hungry. Feed them regularly according to bag instructions and they'll grow up big and strong. Starve them and...well, you've seen what happens. Mowing: Set your mower as long as you can stand to see the lawn, and always mulch mow. It leads to a much healthier stand of grass. Watering: No more than 1" per week (you can set out a tuna can or cans to check the depth of watering). Watering should be done all at once, as well, to minimize the weed seed germination. The exception to that is new seed, which must be damp at all times until it sprouts. Did I miss anything?...See MoreNew to lawn care, need some advice
Comments (10)Wow! Big difference with the photos! I agree, this forum lacks some features. Your lawn actually looks really nice, and it looks like it took the summer pretty decent other then the couple of dead spots. Those really shouldn't be a big deal to fix. Fertilizer from the seed super store is expensive. For your situation, almost anything will do. You could have the soil tested but it doesn't look worth it. To clarify on the aeration, I would recommend renting an aerator, and running it over the yard 3-4 times before overseeding, especially focusing on the dead areas. Before you do that cut the grass super short at roughly 1"-1.5" and bag it as well (this is part of the overseeding). Let me caution you that those aerators are extremely heavy and awkward. After seeing the larger pictures, don't till the dead patches up, there's enough good grass to save. If you really don't want to do the short mowing and aeration, I think you can probably skip it, and try it without. However, I think you will have best results if you do. You're right about the small lawn! That's smaller then I thought. 10lbs. would be an ample supply to you and your neighbor. :) Honestly, after seeing the larger pictures, every picture I see looks like you have fescue. It's too thick bladed for bluegrass. It is a short cut for fescue. Having it cut taller may help the water problems next year. Your yard looks like it's in pretty good condition. You can make seeding just as complicated or as simple as you please. It doesn't look to me like it needs tons of help to catch back up. If it were me, I would cut it short, aerate (I have an aerator, which makes it easier for me), seed (fescue), fertilize, then water, of course. Should take a morning, or less. Stick with it!...See MoreNew to Organic Lawn Care. Advice Would Be Greatly Appreciated.
Comments (5)Kimmsr- Thanks for the detailed reply. The info you provided is helpful. I do have some other questions though. I live about an hour southwest of Chicago in zone 5, late last summer I did the jar test and My soil is about 85 % hard clay, which is strange because one block away the soil is about 70 % sand. Last year I did 2 applications of the shampoo and it helped out with water retention. How do I know when weed seeds will start to germinate? Also what can be done using CGM that will not give me positive results? It sounds like timing is everything with that. My issues with weeds didn't surface until July last year. But they were way outta control. I just figured there would be something I could do early in the year to prevent a lot of them. This lead me to CGM which I'm having a very difficult time finding in my area. In the past I have always mowed at the highest, or second highest height setting on my mower, cutting no more than 1/3 inch at on time. We have had a ton of precipitation this winter and the ground is very moist. I don't know how much of an impact the temps are but we haven't had consistent temps over 40 since last fall. Late March into early April looks like we will be hitting mid 50's consistently. As for watering I learned that I was doing that all wrong as well, listening to the lawn care company they tell you to water every other day, even the irrigation company suggests the same. I'm glad I found this communityð As far as the mole issue I have tried a few different things to combat them. Good to know that i may only have one to deal with. I have had success using both methods but no consistently. The first method I tried was a little metal mole trap that you press into the ground with your foot over their tunnel. After moving this around 4 or 5 times I caught one and that Tom care of my problem for the rest of that year. However I looked toward a less lethal approach. Which lead me to Dr. T's whole control. This is 100 percent castor oil and this also worked for about 5 weeks but after that they came back with a vengeance, and I couldn't repel them at all. After reading your post I learned that I need about twice as much as I used. The bottle says the pint will treat 5000 sq feet. So I guess I will continue to use the trap and the whole control. At least I had some kind of results using both methods. One last question I have is do I over seed? I have read conflicting posts about this, from "you never need to over seed KBG" to "over seeding will help build thicker KBG turf" either way I have not done this in the past 2 years. The lawn care company would over seed when they aerated the lawn....See MoreWant to replace lawn with xeriscape, need advice
Comments (11)Andrew ... If I till up the grass and shovel out the sod, is regrowth of the grass going to be a big issue since I'd be tearing out the roots anyways? It depends on the kind of grass. Those that spread by underground rhizomes (Bermuda and a few others) are likely to regrow from chunks of rhizomes. And if you don't patrol the area and remove all the survivors for a couple of growing seasons, they will re-establish. The rhizomes are the drought and overgrazing survival strategy - despite the name, Bermuda grass is an African savannah grass and has to deal with 6 months of no rain and being grazed by bazillions of migrating wildebeests and gnus. Making the switch to Buffalo Grass, we used a sod-cutter to remove the lawn, then tilled in compost and fertilizers and raked out grass roots and rhizomes before plugging the buffalo grass in ... and still had regrowth. We should have spent a lot more time - perhaps all summer - on getting the Bermuda killed off. I confess my errors here: http://lazygardens.blogspot.com/2009/08/watching-grass-grow-week-20-confessing.html Solarizing deeply enough to kill Bermuda's rhizomes will damage the surface roots of any trees and shrubs in that area, possible stunting or killing the greenery. The rhizomes are usually in the top 6 inches of soil, as are the tree and shrub's feeder roots. I had a client who refused to use "chemicals" like I advised and solarized around her bushes instead ... she killed quite a few by cooking the roots. My approach - leaving the dead grass to decompose under the new planting - creates open channels where the decomposed roots used to be. Lazy aerating. :) I think of it as a cover crop. zensojourner - Where do you live that Bermuda grass is so easy to kill? I use a lot of glyphosate because I clear out weed-infested landscapes and Bermuda lawns for a living/hobby, converting them to xeriscapes and lower maintenance landscapes. In the dusty desert SW, wind-blown weed seeds are ubiquitous and omnipresent and we have three weed-sprouting seasons (spring, monsoon and early winter) to deal with. Some of the seeds can persist in the soil for 10+ years and then sprout. Roundup and all its kin are contact herbicides. You are incorrect. Glyphosate is a systemic herbicide, not a contact herbicide. It translocates to the roots and kills the plant from the roots up. The problem with Bermuda is that it has such a huge underground component it's hard to get it all in the first application. You can improve the kill by having several inches of lush growth to spray, but in most of its range it takes two or more applications. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate Brand name really does not matter, glyphosate is glyphosate is glyphosate. You have been misinformed. The current brand-name "Roundup" added a knock-down contact herbicide to the formula (read the label) because homeowners are impatient to see weeds shrivel ... it's not necessary. So I use the generic single herbicide. =========== And about that Rodale study: "Researchers tested four combinations of Roundup on cultured human cells" and blah,blah,blah .... Cell cultures are fragile. You can kill or damage them by adding almost anything that disrupts their unprotected cell membranes. Try adding 20% acetic acid, the commonly used "organic" herbicide and see how fast they die. Even baking soda can kill them or damage them. Here is a link that might be useful: Bermuda images...See MoreUser
8 years agoshemmy98
8 years agoUser
8 years ago>>I didn't use any tenacity, and in fact that white patch is in an area I actually added a little soil to in hopes of better controlling yard drainage (once the darn grass will stay growing).
Ah-HA! Said soil may have contained a contaminant that's doing that, or it may simply have a very high pH (comparatively speaking, we're talking 7.5 to 8 here).
Do you happen to have any Miracle Gro? If you can get out there without trouncing around on too many sprouts, water that area with MG either in the hose-end applicator or mixing it in a can. If it's a soil issue from the new stuff, the urea or iron will fix it. If it's a contaminant, it's just going to have to wash out.
>>So at day 30 I can start weeping quietly in the corner?
Eh. You've seen photos of my lawn, yes? This photo is from September 9, 2007, at which point I was much further into my reno than you are (I went when the window first opened in mid August). Not so nice.
Stepping back a hair, this is September 2nd. The area's the same, just shot from a 90 degree angle. That big grass is to the left on this photo, not on-screen but not off it by much.
shemmy98
8 years agoSo here is a close up of one of the white blades I plucked. It definitely isn't fungus it's just white. I'll hit the white areas (about 3 small patches spread out and where I did add some extra soil before seeding) with miracle grow tomorrow.
User
8 years agoshemmy98
8 years agoUser
8 years agoshemmy98
8 years ago
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